How Momons have failed America

[Robin Hood]

I think it ought to be pointed out that if this true (that Mormons have failed America) it is only true of American Mormons. It's you guys.
There are more non-American Mormons in the workd and we bear no responsibility for this at all. Neither are we required to have any concern whatsoever for the constitution of the US.
So I think a better title for this thread would be "US Mormons have failed America".
Just sayin.

[freedomforall]

I think it ought to be pointed out that if this true (that Mormons have failed America) it is only true of American Mormons. It's you guys.
There are more non-American Mormons in the workd and we bear no responsibility for this at all. Neither are we required to have any concern whatsoever for the constitution of the US.
So I think a better title for this thread would be "US Mormons have failed America".
Just sayin.

After you interpret this scripture then tell us what responsibility you have.

D&C 98:5,6
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

1) belongs to all mankind...except England, Mexico, Ireland or even our neighbors...Canada? Just what does God mean when he says "all mankind"?
2) justify you, and your brethren of my church...who are the brethren, and in which church?

So now who are "you guys"?

[lundbaek]

I feel safe saying that the principles of the US Constitution are akin to the principles of the gospel. I can also say from having lived 12 years overseas that there are members of the Church in England and Denmark for sure and probably in other countries as well who understand and appreciate the principles of the US Constitution and would choose to live under those principles if they could.

In the April 1949 General Conference the Prophet, President George Albert Smith made this interesting statement: "I feel bound to conform my life to the teachings of the Ten Commandments. I feelequally bound to sustain the Constitution of the United States which came from the same source as the Ten Commandments."

[Robin Hood]

I think it ought to be pointed out that if this true (that Mormons have failed America) it is only true of American Mormons. It's you guys.
There are more non-American Mormons in the workd and we bear no responsibility for this at all. Neither are we required to have any concern whatsoever for the constitution of the US.
So I think a better title for this thread would be "US Mormons have failed America".
Just sayin.

After you interpret this scripture then tell us what responsibility you have.

D&C 98:5,6
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

1) belongs to all mankind...except England, Mexico, Ireland or even our neighbors...Canada? Just what does God mean when he says "all mankind"?
2) justify you, and your brethren of my church...who are the brethren, and in which church?

So now who are "you guys"?

I didn't say anything about freedom.
I said we have no responsibility for the protection of the US constitution. None at all.
We do have a responsibility to uphold freedom protections in our own lands, but not yours.
I was simply pointing out that because the majority of Mormons are not American, most Mormons have not failed America, and couldn't even if they wanted to.

[Sirocco]

I think it ought to be pointed out that if this true (that Mormons have failed America) it is only true of American Mormons. It's you guys.
There are more non-American Mormons in the workd and we bear no responsibility for this at all. Neither are we required to have any concern whatsoever for the constitution of the US.
So I think a better title for this thread would be "US Mormons have failed America".
Just sayin.

After you interpret this scripture then tell us what responsibility you have.

D&C 98:5,6
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

1) belongs to all mankind...except England, Mexico, Ireland or even our neighbors...Canada? Just what does God mean when he says "all mankind"?
2) justify you, and your brethren of my church...who are the brethren, and in which church?

So now who are "you guys"?

I didn't say anything about freedom.
I said we have no responsibility for the protection of the US constitution. None at all.
We do have a responsibility to uphold freedom protections in our own lands, but not yours.
I was simply pointing out that because the majority of Mormons are not American, most Mormons have not failed America, and couldn't even if they wanted to.

I failed America by refusing Dunkin Donut's in Dallas because it wasn't Tim Hortons and I'm just patriotic that way.
I'd fight for the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and in a small way I did by helping to get rid of that horrid Steven Harper.
But America isn't my home.

Enjoy Tim Hortons though, you're getting some!

[Robin Hood]

Never heard of them.

[Ezra]

I think it ought to be pointed out that if this true (that Mormons have failed America) it is only true of American Mormons. It's you guys.
There are more non-American Mormons in the workd and we bear no responsibility for this at all. Neither are we required to have any concern whatsoever for the constitution of the US.
So I think a better title for this thread would be "US Mormons have failed America".
Just sayin.

After you interpret this scripture then tell us what responsibility you have.

D&C 98:5,6
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

1) belongs to all mankind...except England, Mexico, Ireland or even our neighbors...Canada? Just what does God mean when he says "all mankind"?
2) justify you, and your brethren of my church...who are the brethren, and in which church?

So now who are "you guys"?

I didn't say anything about freedom.
I said we have no responsibility for the protection of the US constitution. None at all.
We do have a responsibility to uphold freedom protections in our own lands, but not yours.
I was simply pointing out that because the majority of Mormons are not American, most Mormons have not failed America, and couldn't even if they wanted to.

are you trying the bring the U.S. Constitution into your own lands and government? Trying to awake the people there to the awfull situation that is your currupt government?

Ezra t benson explained in his book a enemy hath done this that 1/3 of the host in heaven were cast out not because they choose satans side. Some did. But the majority satan decived into not choosing a side. They were fence sitters. It's why they were so upset at being cast out. As in their minds they didn't choose satans side. He went on to say that now in this life satan has done the same with a great majority of lds. Has prompted them to be fence sitters not being active in the battle in heaven that still rages on. And he said that if not actively choosing the lords side in heaven meant eternal damnation. How can you think that not being active on the lords side now will somehow not equal eternal consequences??

I have thought that if we choose the lords side there. If we are tricked into fence sitter complacency here. We have failed the test.
Are you failing the test? The original test? Will you once again choose the lords side and freedom and agency and the constitution? Or will you choose satans side of force or fence sitting?
Im sure the battle front seems so far away. But we are all one fold. One people. Gods people. Well we are either his or we are not. And if your not actively involved. Your not.
Just as in the war in heaven satan has tricked you into being a fence sitter.

D&c 76:75. Inherits the Terrestrial kingdom

75 these are they who were honorable men of this earth who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

Craftiness of men to think we are not one fold and that since they live in England have no responsibility to be active in the battle for agency. Or promoting gods banner of agency he created. (The U.S. Constitution)

[Sirocco]

Never heard of them.

They are everywhere here, and I do mean everywhere lol
They're creeping in the US, but are totally rebranded down there (being called a Cafe and Bake Shop, here it's just Tim Hortons, and are seen as extremely Canadian, and have really opened up their menu's from coffee and donuts from yesteryear). Not a bad place.

[lundbaek]

During the April 2013 Church General Conference Priesthood Session Elder Robert Hales told us that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I believe he meant and we are to understand that we are supposed to be role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights. And that message went to all Church priesthood holders, not just those in the United States.

It may be easy for some living outside the USA to think this does not apply to them, that they have no responsibility to support and protect their own God-given and unalienable rights and those of others. I think they do have a responsibility to at least not support infringements of those rights.

[Sirocco]

During the April 2013 Church General Conference Priesthood Session Elder Robert Hales told us that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I believe he meant and we are to understand that we are supposed to be role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights. And that message went to all Church priesthood holders, not just those in the United States.

It may be easy for some living outside the USA to think this does not apply to them, that they have no responsibility to support and protect their own God-given and unalienable rights and those of others. I think they do have a responsibility to at least not support infringements of those rights.

Well I think it was framed in a context of "you have to protect the US' rights and care about America" when those living in other countries have no care to, they should protect their own country.

[Ezra]

During the April 2013 Church General Conference Priesthood Session Elder Robert Hales told us that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I believe he meant and we are to understand that we are supposed to be role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights. And that message went to all Church priesthood holders, not just those in the United States.

It may be easy for some living outside the USA to think this does not apply to them, that they have no responsibility to support and protect their own God-given and unalienable rights and those of others. I think they do have a responsibility to at least not support infringements of those rights.

Well I think it was framed in a context of "you have to protect the US' rights and care about America" when those living in other countries have no care to, they should protect their own country.

They should. By learning the principles of the constitution and then getting involved in government and trying to implement them in into their own government.

[Robin Hood]

are you trying the bring the U.S. Constitution into your own lands and government?

Absolutely not.
Why in the world would I want to do that?

[Sirocco]

During the April 2013 Church General Conference Priesthood Session Elder Robert Hales told us that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I believe he meant and we are to understand that we are supposed to be role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights. And that message went to all Church priesthood holders, not just those in the United States.

It may be easy for some living outside the USA to think this does not apply to them, that they have no responsibility to support and protect their own God-given and unalienable rights and those of others. I think they do have a responsibility to at least not support infringements of those rights.

Well I think it was framed in a context of "you have to protect the US' rights and care about America" when those living in other countries have no care to, they should protect their own country.

They should. By learning the principles of the constitution and then getting involved in government and trying to implement them in into their own government.

Oh man that sounds terrible.
You know I know the US doesn't really... understand that the world doesn't want to be like them, and a lot of places see them as kind of backwards, bigoted and still pretty racist and xenophobic...
I really don't want to see that in my country, as I said, Canada is my home, and I want it to stay the country, running with the ideas it was built on, and is continuing to be built on.
Many of which the US doesn't seem to agree with.

[Darren]

Very good Ludbeak, we always enjoy your perspective.

The reality is that the constitution has been saved, all that is left to be realized is who gets to move forward with it, or to be left out by The Cleansing.

I'm on the train, and it is picking up steam. Climb aboard quickly.

So, the Dictator of the Secret Combination of the Pharisees’ Sanhedrin, has made that Sanhedrin of his the Main Secret Combination of the World, causing virtually all Wars and so many horrors in that Secret Combination’s goal to, in their way, take over the Governing of all of the People of the Human Race by the Procedures of the Dictates of that Dictator and of his present-day Sanhedrin.

Nearly all persons, who know anything at all about them, tremble in considering the fact that they are by far, “The Most Powerful Organization in the History of the World,” which is able to conquer any Country that it wants to, at any time that it wants to, and that it wants, right at this time, to conquer the United States of America and throw its Constitution into the trash, that it has had made out of it, by all of that Secret Combination’s Programs that it has introduced into the lives of the People of the USA.


How “The Elders of this Church” have Stepped Forth and Saved the US Constitution


A most frequently heard quote of the Prophet Joseph Smith was made on July 19, 1840. It is that: “The time will come when the Constitution will hang as if by a thread; and at that time the Elders of this Church will step forth and save it from destruction.”

A preparation for their doing this is the very many prophecies that were made in the Ancient Scriptures, that have been restored, which speak at length of this happening. Reading these during their growing years, along with so frequently hearing Joseph Smith’s quote, above, it is expected that the youth who grow to become “the Elders of this Church” are preparing themselves to “Step Forth and Save the Constitution.”

In General Conference, in April, 1965, Ezra Taft Benson said that: “The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church.” That is, the Church and the Restored Scriptures will “teach” “the elders of Israel” how it will be them who will save the US Constitution, but that, after they have been prepared as they have been to do this, they should not wait to be “compelled in all things” to do that.

Beside the Prophecies in the Ancient Restored Scriptures that it will be “the Elders of this Church” who will save the US Constitution (and many other good things around the World) from destruction, “what are some of the specifics that the Church has provided, in these times, which indicate how this will be done?”

...

because of the developments that “the Elders of this Church” have stepped forth to produce, that Ancient “Secret” Combination does not even exist anymore. They don’t know that yet, but soon virtually all of the World will be showing them that. When shown this their Ancient “Secret Combination” will cease to exist. It will “perish,” in the words of Isaiah.

“How will it perish?” “Why will it perish?” There is information in relation to this in the Booklet, that is available from us that is entitled, “Kybernion.” In that Booklet reference is made to the way that it is explained in the Book of Daniel that the Babylonian or Mediterranean Statecraft “Governments,” that are continuations of “the Works of Darkness” that produced their origin, in Babylon, will “break in pieces” when, “in the latter days,” “shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom” that “shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms.”

The Government that replaced the Neo-Babylonian Empire was that of Persia. The Persian Empire was replaced by that of Ancient Greece.
It is the “Secret Combination” that came from the beginning of the Ancient Greek Statecraft that conquered the Persian Empire that has CEASED TO EXIST in our day.

There is more detail on this in the Booklet, Kybernion, http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... ernion.pdf and extensive information on this subject in what is called, “The 1,000-page Course.”


... all who hear of the way that the Internet was developed, in the USA, stop, and say to all others, “Because of this Invention of the Internet, here in the USA, in the relationship of that Invention to that Biggest Secret Combination Organization in the World ― that has been ruling the Modern World from the gains that it has made from all of the Wars that it has started throughout so much of Recent Modern History ― this Biggest Secret Combination Organization in the World DOESN’T EXIST ANYMORE!”

The only failure of the Mormons has been in learning to work together, under their continuing culture of the ancient Free Enterprise System, of the lost tribes of Israel, with it's ability to help everybody control their own mind, and focus upon goodness, rather than to labor under the "gross darkness" forced upon us through the mechanisms of the Apostate. Unfortunately we get the Cleaning to put a fix to this problem, through the starvation and death of so many who were not prepared, or ready to leave behind Satan's failed System.

God Bless,
Darren

[Ezra]

are you trying the bring the U.S. Constitution into your own lands and government?

Absolutely not.
Why in the world would I want to do that?

I know you don't. And so does the lord. Dont be surprised at judgement day if he does not count you as his. There will be just like in the war in heaven much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

If we are not one we are not his. If we are not standing on the side of liberty agency and the rights garenteed by the constitution as we did in heaven. We are not standing on his side.

[Ezra]

During the April 2013 Church General Conference Priesthood Session Elder Robert Hales told us that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I believe he meant and we are to understand that we are supposed to be role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights. And that message went to all Church priesthood holders, not just those in the United States.

It may be easy for some living outside the USA to think this does not apply to them, that they have no responsibility to support and protect their own God-given and unalienable rights and those of others. I think they do have a responsibility to at least not support infringements of those rights.

Well I think it was framed in a context of "you have to protect the US' rights and care about America" when those living in other countries have no care to, they should protect their own country.

They should. By learning the principles of the constitution and then getting involved in government and trying to implement them in into their own government.

Oh man that sounds terrible.
You know I know the US doesn't really... understand that the world doesn't want to be like them, and a lot of places see them as kind of backwards, bigoted and still pretty racist and xenophobic...
I really don't want to see that in my country, as I said, Canada is my home, and I want it to stay the country, running with the ideas it was built on, and is continuing to be built on.
Many of which the US doesn't seem to agree with.

The America your referring to is not the constitution nor the principles it was once founded on.
I've spent 6 months in Canada. Loved it.
The U.S. Government is a joke. And understandably. Satan always works Hardest on his biggest threat. What America was and is now is completly different. I wouldn't want Canada to be like the the U.S. Is now either.
If the principles of liberty had really taken root and blossomed like they could have. Satan deffently did all he could to stop it. The place America would be today would be very inspiring and you would want your country to be like it. America was great. Canada was too. Both have gone so far down the road towards socialism that they are hardly the countrys they used to be.
Canada has not gone as far as America has toward that end.
That's what your seeing. Look a little deeper and you will see what I'm talking about.

[Sirocco]

We like socialism here, the NDP party is a socialist party and many contributed it's loss of votes in the recent election due to a more centre approach then their more normal socialist approach.
I would certainly argue Canada being far more socialist then the US, far more, and we're happy about that.

[Ezra]

U.S. Has around 85% taxation Canada is only around 35% do the math

Or it's just that much more waist in spending

[Sirocco]

U.S. Has around 85% taxation Canada is only around 35% do the math

Or it's just that much more waist in spending

Where do all your taxes go?
I mean to be fair while Canada is much bigger then the US we don't live in it all, we live in a small sliver, relatively speaking. And there's only 35 million of us.
There's far less to really need.
What's the population of the US 300 million?

[Fiannan]

U.S. Has around 85% taxation Canada is only around 35% do the math

Or it's just that much more waist in spending

Where do all your taxes go?
I mean to be fair while Canada is much bigger then the US we don't live in it all, we live in a small sliver, relatively speaking. And there's only 35 million of us.
There's far less to really need.
What's the population of the US 300 million?

America has been on a war economy and empire building for the past two decades. Spreading mass death and destruction around the world ain't cheap.

[Sirocco]

U.S. Has around 85% taxation Canada is only around 35% do the math

Or it's just that much more waist in spending

Where do all your taxes go?
I mean to be fair while Canada is much bigger then the US we don't live in it all, we live in a small sliver, relatively speaking. And there's only 35 million of us.
There's far less to really need.
What's the population of the US 300 million?

America has been on a war economy and empire building for the past two decades. Spreading mass death and destruction around the world ain't cheap.

And they still honestly wonder why a lot of countries dislike them.

[Fiannan]

There was a TV show on (I think NBC) called "Welcome to Sweden" about an American who moves to Sweden. In it he gets a friend who is from Iraq but tells him he is Canadian because the guy from Iraq says if he was an American he would have to kill him. In reality a lot of people around the world have come to hate the USA, and that has greatly, greatly intensified under Obama. Right now the USA is bombing the heck out of the electricity infrastructure of Syria, while Russia is bombing the heck out of ISIS and the USA's BBF Al Qaeda. Maybe this is because he US wants the nation immobilized after Russia, Hezbolah and the Kurds drive the terrorists out and Assad take back control of the region. It is a war crime to target civilian infrastructure, especially when the US has no official war declaration in the region. The people of Syria are not going to be too loving to the USA once everything gets back to order.

[skmo]

You are talking about the Constitution that did not forbid slavery?

Somebody needs to go read the Declaration of Independence.... epic fail on that comment.

Yes. I like a line from the musical "1776" from Benjamin Franklin:

"Revolutions come into this world like bast-ard children - Half improvised, half compromised.

[lundbaek]

I think people who are happy with socialism, especially members of the Church who espouse socialism gotta problem. Especially since the April 1966 General Conference during which President Marion G. Romney said : "I pray; That we will develop the understanding, the desire, and the courage born of the Spirit, to eschew socialism and to support and sustain, in the manner revealed and as embodied in the Constitution of the United States for the protection of all flesh, in the exercise of their God-given agency." And for what it's worth, President McKay stated that "During the first half of the twentieth century we have traveled far into the soul-destroying land of socialism...." (18 October 1952 Church News)

[Robin Hood]

Which country had economic growth every year (with the exception of WW2) for decades with no recessions at all, while at the same time having full employment, no homelessness, high standards of literacy and education, and a highly developed culture?

Answer: Soviet Union

Not only that, but if the Soviet Union hadn't disbanded it was on course to overtake the US as the worlds largest economy by something like 2025 if my memory serves me right.

While the Soviets had their problems of course, the centrally planned socialist economy was working. There is no denying that.
The problem with a socialist economy is that there is no room for war. The arms race with the US was crippling the Soviet economy and the US knew it. That is why it was done. Why else would the US develop a nuclear arsenal capable of destroying the world fifty times over? You only need to be able to destroy it once for an effective deterent!
But every time the US deployed another ballistic missile the USSR would match it. In the end it just sucked the life out of the Soviet economy.

Socialism in and of itself in it's pure form is a good thing. The problem is that human beings manipulate and distort it.
The socialist mantra "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability" is almost scriptural and is entirely in keeping with the sentiments of the united order. But a united order without God will always fail.