How Momons have failed America

[carbon dioxide]

How Mormons have failed America

Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.

Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.

Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.

According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.

Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.

Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.

But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.

It is said that the Mormons will save the Constitution when it is hanging by a thread, then the conditions must occur to allow the Constitution to hang by a thread. We have not failed since it has not been our time yet.

[freedomforall]

Recent discussions persuade me to resurrect this thread even if only for the benefit of members new to the forum since 20 Feb 2013. Besides, if Robert Sinclair can bang mostly one note on the piano so can I. Of course I've been doing it longer than he has.

=)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) But don't forget, he is howling and weeping and sounding an alarm. I remember a game show entitled "Name That Tune" Some people claimed they could name a tune in one note. Nevertheless, this tune of RS's has played played probably hundreds of times, until some of us are becoming tone deaf.

[freedomforall]

How Mormons have failed America

Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.

Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.

Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.

According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.

Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.

Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.

But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.

It is said that the Mormons will save the Constitution when it is hanging by a thread, then the conditions must occur to allow the Constitution to hang by a thread. We have not failed since it has not been our time yet.

The issue is this. If the elders were called to save the Constitution how many could step forward knowing what and how to save it and what has been destroying it?

[Ezra]

How Mormons have failed America

Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.

Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.

Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.

According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.

Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.

Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.

But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.

It is said that the Mormons will save the Constitution when it is hanging by a thread, then the conditions must occur to allow the Constitution to hang by a thread. We have not failed since it has not been our time yet.

what are you doing now to prepare to do that?

Do you know it? Study it? Have you read and studied the federalist papers as asked to do by the prophet?
Have you as d&c123 12-18 done?
Do you know the secret combinations and their plans?
Do you have a full 2 year or more food storage?
All that knowledge is part of being ready to save the constitution.
If your not there in your preparedness and knowledge. How will you stand and be counted in that day?

[Magus]

Hmm.

My opinion is that the Saints have not failed the USA.

We vote, we are vocal, we participate. Short of that - what do you expect? Terrorism? Violent revolution?

The other ~294 million Americans have plenty of responsibility to bear in the state of our country today.

Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can't get through. That's the world we live in today. You can say, "if only we were more righteous" or whatever - but I don't think it would have ultimately made a difference even if we were as righteous as the City of Enoch.

And btw, the Constitution is already practically destroyed. It is flagrantly ignored and trampled on in numerous ways. The recent Supreme Court decision on gay marriage solidified my view on that. We no longer live in a real democracy.

Personally, I no longer pray for God to preserve or save our country in terms of preventing disaster. I pray for Him to do whatever is necessary to bring us back to where we need to be, and leave it to Him to determine exactly what that should be.

The West has become Sodom. I'm ready to make like Lot and get out of the way.

[lundbaek]

To Carbon Dioxide's position, I maintain that if just the Mormons living in America had done as Presidents McKay, Clark, Romney, and Benson pleaded with us to do in support of the Constitution and its principles that the Lord would have supported our efforts in a number of possible ways and we would likely be living under a constitutional republic instead of the largely socialist oligarchy that we now have.

Yes, the Constitution is "hanging by a thread". Examples:
1.) Informal changes to the Constitution resulting from certain congressional legislation, certain presidential actions, Supreme Court decisions which were violations of the original intent of the Constitution.
A.) Foreign aid
B.) Welfare to certain groups and localities
C.) Corporate welfare/bailouts
D.) Wars never declared by the US Congress
E.) Refusal of the Executive Branch to enforce US immigration laws and secure borders from illegal crossings
F.) The National Defense Authorization Act
G.) the Patriot Act
All of these are egregious violations of the US Constitution. It may be difficult for some to comprehend the dangers posed by these violations of the Constitution, especially when prominent Mormons in the political arena have proposed and supported some of them.

[freedomforall]

Hmm.

My opinion is that the Saints have not failed the USA. Prophets say otherwise

We vote, For the lesser of two evils, or God's way laid out in D&C? we are vocal, we participate. Short of that - what do you expect? Terrorism? Violent revolution?

The other ~294 million Americans have plenty of responsibility to bear in the state of our country today.

Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can't get through. That's the world we live in today. You can say, "if only we were more righteous" or whatever - but I don't think it would have ultimately made a difference even if we were as righteous as the City of Enoch. The promise the Lord made is that if Americans were to live righteous lives no power or enemy could overthrow us...this covenant has been broken because of evil being sought for over righteousness. Get Timothy Ballard's book "American Covenant".

And btw, the Constitution is already practically destroyed. It is flagrantly ignored and trampled on in numerous ways. The recent Supreme Court decision on gay marriage solidified my view on that. We no longer live in a real democracy. We were never meant to be a democracy, rather, were to be a righteous republic.

Personally, I no longer pray for God to preserve or save our country in terms of preventing disaster. I pray for Him to do whatever is necessary to bring us back to where we need to be, and leave it to Him to determine exactly what that should be.

The West has become Sodom. I'm ready to make like Lot and get out of the way.

Church members are at perfect liberty to act according to their own consciences in the matter of safeguarding our way of life. They are, of course, encouraged to honor the highest standards of the gospel and to work to preserve their own freedoms. They are free to participate in non-church meetings that are held to warn people of the threat of Communism or any other theory or principle that will deprive us of our free agency or individual liberties vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States….
We therefore commend and encourage every person and every group who is sincerely seeking to study Constitutional principles and awaken a sleeping and apathetic people to the alarming conditions that are rapidly advancing about us. (April 1966, General Conference “Statement Concerning the Position of the Church on
Communism”)
.........................................................................................................................................
The wisdom of these provisions in the Constitution which protect the liberties and inherent rights of the citizens, should be apparent to all. They should be guarded and protected with a jealous care. The Constitution is our assurance against anarchy and despotism. Every Latter-day Saint should be familiar with every part of this great
document. Such knowledge is essential to an understanding of the significance of the word of the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants. (1936, The Progress of Man, 298)
.............................................................................................................................................
If we are to keep faith with our Constitution, we must know it. Since it is the basis of our American way of life and our liberties every American should be familiar with it. We should read it periodically. How can people who are ignorant of the principles and guarantees of American government stand up in defense of it and our rights under the Constitution[?] The fundamentals and processes of free government should be known to every school boy—and his parents. No free people can ever survive if they are ignorant of and fail to understand the principles of free government! (1962, The Red Carpet, 201-202)

And many, many more.

[Magus]

freedomforall:

You seem to be equating success in the mission with obedience to the prophets. I don't think the two are unequivocally linked. Just because the country is in a terrible state doesn't mean we didn't do all we could do, or that we didn't do enough. Nor does it mean that even if we did do all we could do, that it would be otherwise. Like I said, we could all know the Constitution backwards and forwards and be as righteous as the City of Enoch, and I still don't think that it would change where we are today. Outside of voting or protesting, the only actions left are violent ones. Has a prophet come out said said "Hey, Saints - you have failed the USA in keeping it from going towards corruption and degeneracy. That is all, goodnight." ? It'd be interesting if one has - but I would have to take it with just a few grains of salt. Prophets have their opinions, after all. And Ezra Taft Benson, last I heard, was in favor of keeping segregation. Was that inspired? Did Benson think integration was the wrong way to go? Would he have blamed the Saints for the degeneracy of America? Things to consider, as applied to the argument conceptually.

Consider also all of the prophecies of America's destruction. Is that what would happen to a righteous nation? Last I checked, the Lord rewards truly righteous nations, and doesn't send such terrible judgments upon them. Seems to me that the fall of the USA was pretty much inevitable, no matter how righteous or diligent the Saints would have been.

And democracy, righteous republic - whatever. If you want to split hairs, we are actually a democratic republic (well, supposed to be).

[Ezra]

Wrong.

Democracy only garentees the rights of 51%

A constitutional republic garentees the rights of all 100.

[Magus]

Except for slaves.

We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives/senators/presidents to be our leaders, and then they go about doing their job. The election part is the democratic part. Them being our leaders and voting on things themselves, instead of us voting on every issue, is the republic part.

There is a constitution that binds it all as a framework of terms/conditions/rules. That doesn't nullify that we are a democratic republic. A democratic republic needs a constitution, but a constitutional republic does not necessarily need democracy. See what I'm saying?

[freedomforall]

Wrong.

Democracy only garentees the rights of 51%

A constitutional republic garentees the rights of all 100.

Thanks, Ezra. The problem is that too many Americans are content to only having 51% or less. And most do not know that they could have had it all, or maybe do not care at all.

[Ezra]

I have a friend who has woken up over 2000 people both lds and none to the threats to the constitution. In 5 years I might add.

That's one righteous persons efforts. Imagine what 5 million would do.

I have woke up around a hundred that I know of.

More none Mormons are waking up then Mormons. It's why many lds are called few chosen.

[Magus]

Well, you guys seem very optimistic.

[Ezra]

Except for slaves.

We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives/senators/presidents to be our leaders, and then they go about doing their job. The election part is the democratic part. Them being our leaders and voting on things themselves, instead of us voting on every issue, is the republic part.

There is a constitution that binds it all as a framework of terms/conditions/rules. That doesn't nullify that we are a democratic republic. A democratic republic needs a constitution, but a constitutional republic does not necessarily need democracy. See what I'm saying?

The only democratic part. Voting is a very small thing.
I see you don't understand the spirit of the constitution the lord created to know it included the slaves. Just because the people at the time were still fighting against the traditions of there fathers like most people still do today with other stupid traditions of there fathers.

[Magus]

Except for slaves.

We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives/senators/presidents to be our leaders, and then they go about doing their job. The election part is the democratic part. Them being our leaders and voting on things themselves, instead of us voting on every issue, is the republic part.

There is a constitution that binds it all as a framework of terms/conditions/rules. That doesn't nullify that we are a democratic republic. A democratic republic needs a constitution, but a constitutional republic does not necessarily need democracy. See what I'm saying?

The only democratic part. Voting is a very small thing.
I see you don't understand the spirit of the constitution the lord created to know it included the slaves. Just because the people at the time were still fighting against the traditions of there fathers like most people still do today with other stupid traditions of there fathers.

I understand the spirit of the constitution just fine - I was just pointing out the hole in your statement. Thaz all, my friend.

[Ezra]

No holes. Peoples lack of understanding is were the holes are.

[Magus]

Constitutions, in and of themselves, don't guarantee, 100%, the rights "of all," they guarantee the rights that are decided upon, for the people they are decided for.

That was my point.

Slaves didn't really have rights. Women weren't allowed to vote, etc, etc.

[freedomforall]

Except for slaves.

We are a democratic republic. We elect representatives/senators/presidents to be our leaders, and then they go about doing their job. The election part is the democratic part. Them being our leaders and voting on things themselves, instead of us voting on every issue, is the republic part.

There is a constitution that binds it all as a framework of terms/conditions/rules. That doesn't nullify that we are a democratic republic. A democratic republic needs a constitution, but a constitutional republic does not necessarily need democracy. See what I'm saying?

Please refer to this: https://archive.org/details/Michael_Badnarik#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Michael will tell you that we are a Constitutional Republic.
He will tell the difference between a right and a privilege.
Plus much more

[Magus]

We're having a terminological argument, guys.

I agree that we live in a constitutional republic.

I feel democratic republic is more descriptive and accurate, however. Like I said - any democratic republic needs a constitution, but not any constitutional republic needs democracy.

[Ezra]

Constitutions, in and of themselves, don't guarantee, 100%, the rights "of all," they guarantee the rights that are decided upon, for the people they are decided for.

That was my point.

Slaves didn't really have rights. Women weren't allowed to vote, etc, etc.

Do you know why?

Property owners were the only ones allowed to vote. Because they more then any others care about their rights to own property.

I wish it was still the same. If it was we wouldn't have property taxes that make it to where we never accually own it.

Which is part of the communist manifesto.

It's scary that we follow the communist manifesto closer then the constitution.

[lundbaek]

As for doing all we could do to preserve our constitutional republic::
How many American Mormons have been vigilant in trying to preserve the Constitution and preserve the way of life it makes possible ? **
How many American Mormons have tried to learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers ? **
How many American Mormons have really tried to abide by those principles ?
How many American Mormons have really tried to teach those principles to family and others ?
How many American Mormons have read the Federalist Papers ?
How many American Mormons know or have tried to find out what the prophets have said about the Constitution ?

The first two of the above listed things we were told by President Benson we MUST do. That makes them commandments to me. The others were spoken in the Octobeer 1987 General Conference. If you think I'm making these up please find and read the 15 January 1987 First Presidency Statement and the October 1987 Conference address entitled "Our Divine Constitution" by President Benson. These and other similar statements by President Benson have never been repealed in any way. I maintain that if the American members of the LDS Church had been united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States, as President McKay urged us in those words at least twice that I know of, the Lord would have made up the difference and united us with non-LDS Americans engaged in the freedom battle, and I believe we could have saved the Constitution. And I believe its principles could have reverberated to other lands where people in those lands would have learned and espoused its principles.

We can conjure up all kinds of reasons and excuses why the fall of the USA was pretty much inevitable, no matter how righteous or diligent the Saints would have been. Nevertheless, those commandments were never repealed. We were told what to do and most did not comply.

[freedomforall]

Constitutions, in and of themselves, don't guarantee, 100%, the rights "of all," they guarantee the rights that are decided upon, for the people they are decided for.

That was my point.

Slaves didn't really have rights. Women weren't allowed to vote, etc, etc.

Do you know why?

Property owners were the only ones allowed to vote. Because they more then any others care about their rights to own property.

I wish it was still the same. If it was we wouldn't have property taxes that make it to where we never accually own it.

Which is part of the communist manifesto.

It's scary that we follow the communist manifesto closer then the constitution.

We have Franklin Delano Roosevelt for this. He was a socialist and people allowed his views to come to fruition without question. He was instrumental in having property owners pay rent every month called taxes.
Michael says that the state of Texas is the only state where a home owner can actually own the land the house sits under Allodial title. All others do not own the property their house sits on. FDR sure suckered many people.

[Ezra]

I didn't know that about tx. Did know about allodiol titles though.

[davedan]

There is no real Allodial title in the US. TX and NV have "limited allodial title" for pre-paying property taxes.

The only advantage to limited allodial title is the pre-payment of property tax until death on an undeveloped piece of land, and then developing it. The value of the land goes up after development but all the property tax has already been paid. This situation is called "Limited Allodial Title", and it can apply to land in Texas and Nevada. I am not sure if it prevents the government from collecting an estate tax when the land is passed on after the death of the title holder.

After the land is passed on, the allodial title expires and the land value and taxes are reassessed. the allodial title must be re-applied for and taxes paid by the heir.

Land under limited allodial title is still subject to emminent domain I believe.

[freedomforall]

I didn't know that about tx. Did know about allodiol titles though.

Michael Badnarik mentions this in the first segment of his Constitution class, from the 22:15 mark.