How Momons have failed America
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lundbaek
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How Momons have failed America
How Mormons have failed America
Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.
Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.
Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.
According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.
Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.
Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.
But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.
Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.
Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.
According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.
Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.
Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.
But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
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Nan
- captain of 1,000
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- Location: texas
Re: How Momons have failed America
I would submit that how we have failed is by not choosing to be righteous enough.
- Fairminded
- captain of 1,000
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- mes5464
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 29586
- Location: Seneca, South Carolina
Re: How Momons have failed America
+1lundbaek wrote:How Mormons have failed America
Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.
Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.
Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.
According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.
Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.
Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.
But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
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ebenezerarise
- captain of 1,000
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Re: How Momons have failed America
What a crock of doo.lundbaek wrote:But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
The Mormons have failed nothing.
First, there are some 5 to 6 million Mormons in the USA. Against a population of some 300+ million overall.
While there are many practicing LDS who do not exercise their Constitutional freedoms there are many that do. They serve in government. They vote. They are active in communities. They serve in the armed forces. They fight and they die. All the while through-out our history the members of the Church in the USA have been on record as a patriotic people even though as citizens we have been continually persecuted.
This rant is but one more of many condemnation of the Church and its members on these boards and it has no basis in reality.
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Vision
- captain of 1,000
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- Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Re: How Momons have failed America
You are talking about the Constitution that did not forbid slavery?
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Fiannan
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 12983
Re: How Momons have failed America
When leaders told members in California to get involved in Prop 8 thousands were mobilized -- including many who had never taken an interest in politics. Why? Because leaders took up the issue.
I submit the idea that it is not the members fault as a whole for doing so little to educate their families and communities but the leadership of the Church itself. This is not a condemnation but merely an observation. If the membership is not doing its job then the leaders can't be fault-free.
I submit the idea that it is not the members fault as a whole for doing so little to educate their families and communities but the leadership of the Church itself. This is not a condemnation but merely an observation. If the membership is not doing its job then the leaders can't be fault-free.
- tmac
- captain of 1,000
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Re: How Momons have failed America
Obviously, in many Mormons own eyes, neither they, the Church, Church leaders, nor the Mormon people as a whole have failed at anything. All is well in Zion. And, when we compare ourselves to the World, we often seem to think we have plenty to pat ourselves on the back about. But if, instead of thinking we have done so well by comparing ourselves to Babylon, we would compare what we have done to what God expects His people to have done, we would fall on our faces in the dirt, and cry for forgiveness, as did the listeners of King Benjamin in Mosiah 4:1-3.What a crock of doo.
The Mormons have failed nothing.
First, there are some 5 to 6 million Mormons in the USA. Against a population of some 300+ million overall.
While there are many practicing LDS who do not exercise their Constitutional freedoms there are many that do. They serve in government. They vote. They are active in communities. They serve in the armed forces. They fight and they die. All the while through-out our history the members of the Church in the USA have been on record as a patriotic people even though as citizens we have been continually persecuted.
This rant is but one more of many condemnation of the Church and its members on these boards and it has no basis in reality
The biggest thing that stops us from doing that is the deep state of denial we are in because we think we are so great -- when compared to Babylon.
Maybe we ought to be wondering more about what God Himself thinks.
In that regard, I can only think of one word that probably fits the bill: REPENTANCE!
- TZONE
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1724
Re: How Momons have failed America
Thanks for stating an observation...Fiannan wrote:When leaders told members in California to get involved in Prop 8 thousands were mobilized -- including many who had never taken an interest in politics. Why? Because leaders took up the issue.
I submit the idea that it is not the members fault as a whole for doing so little to educate their families and communities but the leadership of the Church itself. This is not a condemnation but merely an observation. If the membership is not doing its job then the leaders can't be fault-free.
Its called patience people. All things will be done in its due time. Many leaders understand this, yes some do not, but there is a time and place for things. You can't fight all the battles. The Lord would inspire his people to act in a certain way if it was his will. Think of the book of Ether or Mormon. Mormon fought for the wicked men to overcome the other wicked people (Lamanites/Nephites). He fought WITH them even saying "their time for grace has passed by them". That's all he could do. He tried to teach them, to persuade them. Didn't work. Thus God takes over in his own way. Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, wicked punishing the wicked... We have over 60k missionaries, their mission is to warn and doing there job quite nicely if you ask me. Could there be a greater dedication, Yes. But there is only so much you can do in an evil world until the "wicked punish the wicked"(Ether 4/5?). Evil always has been a "scourge" (1 Nephi ?) to wake up the righteous. These evil's will be a means to do so again I presume.
Also we are seeing the effects of the wheat and tares growing together. This is not against God's design. He will fix it just like he organized it in the first place.
- TZONE
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1724
Re: How Momons have failed America
So true! Should never say all is well in Zion but the people are prepared or being prepared for what is coming. Far too often i run into people who are offended by members because they think they are so much better than the rest of the world... They despise the church because of it.tmac wrote:Obviously, in many Mormons own eyes, neither they, the Church, Church leaders, nor the Mormon people as a whole have failed at anything. All is well in Zion. And, when we compare ourselves to the World, we often seem to think we have plenty to pat ourselves on the back about. But if, instead of thinking we have done so well by comparing ourselves to Babylon, we would compare what we have done to what God expects His people to have done, we would fall on our faces in the dirt, and cry for forgiveness, as did the listeners of King Benjamin in Mosiah 4:1-3.What a crock of doo.
The Mormons have failed nothing.
First, there are some 5 to 6 million Mormons in the USA. Against a population of some 300+ million overall.
While there are many practicing LDS who do not exercise their Constitutional freedoms there are many that do. They serve in government. They vote. They are active in communities. They serve in the armed forces. They fight and they die. All the while through-out our history the members of the Church in the USA have been on record as a patriotic people even though as citizens we have been continually persecuted.
This rant is but one more of many condemnation of the Church and its members on these boards and it has no basis in reality
The biggest thing that stops us from doing that is the deep state of denial we are in because we think we are so great -- when compared to Babylon.
Maybe we ought to be wondering more about what God Himself thinks.
In that regard, I can only think of one word that probably fits the bill: REPENTANCE!
My wife ran into a parent of a student she teaches. The student put a muslim scarf on and the father shouted TAKE THAT OFF. Apparently he hates muslims. The people need to stop analyzing and judging others and fix themselves (me included!). How sad is that? Even when our leaders (Joseph smith and the other apostles) all taught that these men were inspired by God to bring about good in the world. Ghandi, founding fathers, Lincoln, Martin Lurther, and many others I have all heared named by these men.
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Benjamin_LK
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Re: How Momons have failed America
Not entirely accurate. Again, plenty of members of the church get involved in politics, vote, serve in the armed forces, and so on. However, true to the Lord's plan, there is agency, and not even God can force all members to be 100 percent without sin, nor can he force all members to be perfectly faithful either.lundbaek wrote:How Mormons have failed America
Mormons are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told them how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.
Mormons have been told of the vital importance of learning the principles of the US Constitution as it was meant to be understood, and of defending, upholding and adhering to its principles.
Unfortunately, Mormons have failed America by not being united in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States. Not only have they ignored the admonitions in their scriptures and from their prophets and apostles to study, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution, but they have also largely ignored the warnings about secret combinations among them striving to gain control over their government and steal their wealth.
According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. Interesting that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints.
Members of the LDS Church are the only people who have the prophetic warnings about the secret combination striving to get power in the form of control of government and wealth. Although the Lord has given us the knowledge and the responsibility to help reveal and oppose this secret combination, it seems that we have not had the wisdom to act on it, and consequently that conspiracy has gotten above us.
Mormons have been singled out to perform a divine mission to preserve the US Constitution from destruction. And we may yet be called upon as a people to exert great influence in helping to restore and preserve all of the liberties and freedoms vouchsafed to us in the Constitution of this land. The Lord revealed to his prophets that the greatest threat to the United States would be a vast, world-wide "secret combinsation" which would strive to destroy the US Constitution and overthrow the freedom of all nations.
But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
Put in mind that in the U.S. alone, a nation of 300+ million, Latter-Day Saints only comprise 5-6 million, which is a pretty miniscule chunk of the population, don't you think.
I am not going to say all is well in the church, because that's far from true. However, trust the Lord here, because the Church is his, and he is guiding the efforts. The church will ultimately be pushing for future raises in the bar for faithfulness to the Lord, similar as to how the Word of Wisdom, Temple Recommends, and Missionary Service have become ratcheted in their strictness over the years. The question is whether or not each and every one of us will remain on board, or drop because we don't want to try pushing on.
As far as warning about Secret Combinations, that is not a priority, the priority is preaching repentance. Why, because if one repents, that involves leaving whatever Secret Combination you were affiliated with in committing and buying into said sin. I honestly feel too many people look too far beyond the mark in what is referred to by Secret Combinations, much less the fact that if God orders us to share the gospel and encourage repentance, and not to aggressively pursue some mysterious secret combination: shouldn't we obey him as a first priority, and trust that he can handle the rest?
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Fiannan
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 12983
Re: How Momons have failed America
If 6 million Americans are LDS then that is nearly 2% of the US population -- the same percentage that is exclusively male homosexual.
ANd their influence on American culture is...?
ANd their influence on American culture is...?
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Benjamin_LK
- captain of 1,000
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Re: How Momons have failed America
I think the real problem with this board is the thinking that because so much of the nation approves unrighteousness, that we've automatically failed, sounds like a judgement from an ivory tower, to me anyways. Do the people who think all is bad in ZIon actually bother making the morality clubs, or take part of the initiatives to stand for what's right, when they have the chance? Do they bother with letting other people know who they are, and what they do? There will always be some serious trouble in the world, and there will ultimately be plenty of retribution from God himself, but what this should mean - when you consider the fact that we call ourselves Latter-Day Saints, is that we take upon ourselves the title of someone who serves others and shows kindness, even in adverse circumstances. What I believe the Lord cares more about is not about our conversion of the whole world, or whether or not everyone knows about some "Secret Combination", but rather how hard one is shining the light of Christ forth.TZONE wrote:Thanks for stating an observation...Fiannan wrote:When leaders told members in California to get involved in Prop 8 thousands were mobilized -- including many who had never taken an interest in politics. Why? Because leaders took up the issue.
I submit the idea that it is not the members fault as a whole for doing so little to educate their families and communities but the leadership of the Church itself. This is not a condemnation but merely an observation. If the membership is not doing its job then the leaders can't be fault-free.
Its called patience people. All things will be done in its due time. Many leaders understand this, yes some do not, but there is a time and place for things. You can't fight all the battles. The Lord would inspire his people to act in a certain way if it was his will. Think of the book of Ether or Mormon. Mormon fought for the wicked men to overcome the other wicked people (Lamanites/Nephites). He fought WITH them even saying "their time for grace has passed by them". That's all he could do. He tried to teach them, to persuade them. Didn't work. Thus God takes over in his own way. Earthquakes, Famine, Pestilence, wicked punishing the wicked... We have over 60k missionaries, their mission is to warn and doing there job quite nicely if you ask me. Could there be a greater dedication, Yes. But there is only so much you can do in an evil world until the "wicked punish the wicked"(Ether 4/5?). Evil always has been a "scourge" (1 Nephi ?) to wake up the righteous. These evil's will be a means to do so again I presume.
Also we are seeing the effects of the wheat and tares growing together. This is not against God's design. He will fix it just like he organized it in the first place.
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Benjamin_LK
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2504
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Re: How Momons have failed America
Their influence on American culture is vastly disproportionate to their numbers, and if you look at the media attention we have been receiving and will keep on getting, well, we're never going to be an unknown again, the world knows we're here, and the attention, both good and bad, is only really going to increase. We're no longer in the position to live on borrowed light, and we're also no longer in the position to think that no one will be watching, or that we can just sit back and say nothing. The world has an ever-growing spotlight pointed in our direction, and it is for a good purpose.Fiannan wrote:If 6 million Americans are LDS then that is nearly 2% of the US population -- the same percentage that is exclusively male homosexual.
ANd their influence on American culture is...?
- gclayjr
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- TZONE
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1724
Re: How Momons have failed America
Yes I agree the people can always be better. Some of these things are not too hard to do but for the most part I think people just don't know how to do any more (I'm in this boat right now). I want to make a big different but than realize its my small and simple things are brought to pass. So I stick with the small things I know how to do. I think more should be done as you described but really HOW? (I have been asking myself this question for awhile now) I think those with extra oil in their lamps think the same way? Some are naturally good at going the extra mile but others have a harder time finding what they can contribute.Benjamin_LK wrote:
I think the real problem with this board is the thinking that because so much of the nation approves unrighteousness, that we've automatically failed, sounds like a judgement from an ivory tower, to me anyways. Do the people who think all is bad in ZIon actually bother making the morality clubs, or take part of the initiatives to stand for what's right, when they have the chance? Do they bother with letting other people know who they are, and what they do? There will always be some serious trouble in the world, and there will ultimately be plenty of retribution from God himself, but what this should mean - when you consider the fact that we call ourselves Latter-Day Saints, is that we take upon ourselves the title of someone who serves others and shows kindness, even in adverse circumstances. What I believe the Lord cares more about is not about our conversion of the whole world, or whether or not everyone knows about some "Secret Combination", but rather how hard one is shining the light of Christ forth.
Your post about the light pointing to us, I agree with that too which is the beginning of How (by living what we know to be true)...
- rdwhitaker
- captain of 100
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- Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: How Momons have failed America
President Ezra Taft Benson boldly declared in October 1986 that the Church was under condemnation. He said,
I suspect there are far too many LDS who rest comfortably in their mediocrity and claim "All is well in Zion." Considering the Prophet's words above, we should ask ourselves — Are we bringing forth fruit meet for our Father's kingdom yet? What should our fruit be? A broken heart and a contrite spirit, until we are so filled with the light and love of Christ and the bestowal of Charity, the pure love of Christ, that we no longer have a mind to injure, argue, dispute, criticize, or demean one another — until we are a Zion people. Until we are a Zion people, I fear we as a body continue to remain under condemnation and beneath the threat of "a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion." But, alas! "vanity and unbelief" continue to be the norm in the Church (Why, we're the Lord's church, after all! We are righteous! Look at all the good works we do in the name of the Lord!) As long as we promote our good works but ignore our lack of pure love (manifested by fault-finding, comparing, ostracizing, self-promotion) we will remain condemned and at risk.
The majority of postings on this board show just how far we have yet to grow.
rdw
He also said,Not only had treating this sacred book lightly brought a loss of light to themselves, it had also brought the whole Church under condemnation, even all the children of Zion. And then the Lord said, “And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon” (D&C 84:54–57).
[emphasis added]I reaffirm those words to you this day. Let us not remain under condemnation, with its scourge and judgment, by treating lightly this great and marvelous gift the Lord has given to us. Rather, let us win the promises associated with treasuring it up in our hearts.
In the Doctrine and Covenants, section 84, verses 54 to 58, we read:
“And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
“Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
“And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
“And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—
“That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.” [D&C 84:54–58]
I suspect there are far too many LDS who rest comfortably in their mediocrity and claim "All is well in Zion." Considering the Prophet's words above, we should ask ourselves — Are we bringing forth fruit meet for our Father's kingdom yet? What should our fruit be? A broken heart and a contrite spirit, until we are so filled with the light and love of Christ and the bestowal of Charity, the pure love of Christ, that we no longer have a mind to injure, argue, dispute, criticize, or demean one another — until we are a Zion people. Until we are a Zion people, I fear we as a body continue to remain under condemnation and beneath the threat of "a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion." But, alas! "vanity and unbelief" continue to be the norm in the Church (Why, we're the Lord's church, after all! We are righteous! Look at all the good works we do in the name of the Lord!) As long as we promote our good works but ignore our lack of pure love (manifested by fault-finding, comparing, ostracizing, self-promotion) we will remain condemned and at risk.
The majority of postings on this board show just how far we have yet to grow.
rdw
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Fiannan
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 12983
Re: How Momons have failed America
High priest.gclayjr wrote:Fiannan ...Them Mormons or us Mormons?
Regards,
George Clay
- durangout
- captain of 1,000
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- Location: Bugged out man, WAY out
Re: How Momons have failed America
e wrote:What a crock of doo.lundbaek wrote:But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
The Mormons have failed nothing.
First, there are some 5 to 6 million Mormons in the USA. Against a population of some 300+ million overall.
While there are many practicing LDS who do not exercise their Constitutional freedoms there are many that do. They serve in government. They vote. They are active in communities. They serve in the armed forces. They fight and they die. All the while through-out our history the members of the Church in the USA have been on record as a patriotic people even though as citizens we have been continually persecuted.
This rant is but one more of many condemnation of the Church and its members on these boards and it has no basis in reality.
As usual Ebenezerarise, you are correct
I might ask the Anti-Mormon, Mormons on this site: Did Lot fail Sodom? No. Actualy I think it was due to the few righteous that they were spared as long as they were. Now the Anti-Mormon, Mormons on this site will say the members aren't righteous! If they voted for RP they would have been counted as righteous. Voting libertarian might also absolve one from their sins? That worked out so well for us in the last election for example it was because of this that Mattheson beat Mia Love. Yahooo! you people voted your conscience and BHOnow has more power.
Sure we failed America. :ymsick:
- uglypitbull
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1751
Re: How Momons have failed America
Somebody needs to go read the Declaration of Independence.... epic fail on that comment.Vision wrote:You are talking about the Constitution that did not forbid slavery?
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lundbaek
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 11123
- Location: Mesa, Arizona
Re: How Momons have failed America
On another thread the following is attributed to President McKay. "I have always been impressed by the Lord’s statement that the substantive ingredients of the Constitution were not only divinely inspired but were designed for the “protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles.” In my own words, "We have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told us that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. He even told us that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people, and that its princples were to be established forever.
These concepts which I believe were inspired, were not merely intended for the people of the United States, but for all humanity. Therefore, these principles need to be promoted, perpetuated, defended and taught as part of the message of the restored Kingdom of God.
These concepts which I believe were inspired, were not merely intended for the people of the United States, but for all humanity. Therefore, these principles need to be promoted, perpetuated, defended and taught as part of the message of the restored Kingdom of God.
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Vision
- captain of 1,000
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Re: How Momons have failed America
uglypitbull wrote:Somebody needs to go read the Declaration of Independence.... epic fail on that comment.Vision wrote:You are talking about the Constitution that did not forbid slavery?
So I did as you asked and don't understand what you meant by your reply?
Were you pointing me to the "all men are created equal" part?
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HeirofNumenor
- the Heir Of Numenor
- Posts: 4229
- Location: UT
Re: How Momons have failed America
President Ezra Taft Benson boldly declared in October 1986 that the Church was under condemnation. He said,
Not only had treating this sacred book lightly brought a loss of light to themselves, it had also brought the whole Church under condemnation, even all the children of Zion. And then the Lord said, “And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon” (D&C 84:54–57).
He also said,
I reaffirm those words to you this day. Let us not remain under condemnation, with its scourge and judgment, by treating lightly this great and marvelous gift the Lord has given to us. Rather, let us win the promises associated with treasuring it up in our hearts.
In the Doctrine and Covenants, section 84, verses 54 to 58, we read:
“And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
“Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
“And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
“And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—
“That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.” [D&C 84:54–58]
And since that time we have been reading, studying, pushing the Book of Mormon like crazy...(If we are still under condemnation, it's because of that awful "Book of Mormon Movie: Journey to the Promised Land." :ymsick: My ex-wife was convinced that enemies of/within the Church made that movie.)
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CBentley
- captain of 100
- Posts: 342
Re: How Momons have failed America
Here is a letter President McKay wrote the president of BYU almost 50 years ago. How have we stacked up against his counsel in terms of what has been taught subsequently there, and the way Mormon politicians conduct themselves in office? Do we as a people embrace freedom or socialism wrapped in patriotic sounding platitudes and slogans?ebenezerarise wrote:What a crock of doo.lundbaek wrote:But because of this failure on the part of the Mormon people, many others whom they might have inspired to study, embrace, and abide by the principles of the Constitution have been denied the opportunity to learn and act on those principles.
The Mormons have failed nothing.
First, there are some 5 to 6 million Mormons in the USA. Against a population of some 300+ million overall.
While there are many practicing LDS who do not exercise their Constitutional freedoms there are many that do. They serve in government. They vote. They are active in communities. They serve in the armed forces. They fight and they die. All the while through-out our history the members of the Church in the USA have been on record as a patriotic people even though as citizens we have been continually persecuted.
This rant is but one more of many condemnation of the Church and its members on these boards and it has no basis in reality.
From David O. McKay
Dec. 22, 1966
Dear President Wilkinson:
In recent years I have felt a growing anxiety concerning the larger role which I feel the Brigham Young University should play in proclaiming those principles which are necessary to preserve the Constitution and the blessings of freedom among mankind. I have always been impressed by the Lord’s statement that the substantive ingredients of the Constitution were not only divinely inspired but were designed for the “protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles.” These inspired concepts were not merely intended for the people of the United States, but for all humanity. Therefore, these principles need to be promoted, perpetuated, defended and taught as part of the message of the restored Kingdom of God.
Up to this time I do not feel that the Brigham Young University fulfilled its responsibility as the leading educational instrument of the Church in proclaiming these principles. The reports which I have received would indicate that far too much time is being spent in some of the classes deprecating the very principles which God has enjoined upon the Priesthood of this Church to defend, promulgate and propagate for the general welfare and liberty of mankind.
I feel that the University departments devoted to economics, political science and history have no reason to exist as part of a Church institution of higher learning unless they are supporting the Church in fulfilling its responsibility to preserve and implement our free and open society and resist those who would collectivize the material resources of the earth as a means of subjugating our Father’s children.
I fear some of our fine Latter-day Saint scholars have become seriously confused as to the position of the Church in these matters and they have therefore become apologetic or even hostile to the very precepts which the Lord has endorsed to the Church as the custodian and depository of His revealed will in these last days. I know from conversations with some of these teachers and scholars that they are extremely earnest and sincere, but that will not excuse the fact that when they transmit their confusion to the rising generation of Latter-day Saints they are defeating or debilitating an important phase of the work of the Church. In fact, they are vitiating an important and highly vital part of the very mission which the Church was restored to fulfill.
Now, I recognize that these teachers are free agents and they are entitled to their opinions. Nevertheless, they are not entitled to proclaim private opinions in a Church educational institution when those opinions militate against the purposes, objectives and obligations of the Church. This would be comparable to excusing a Church missionary who decided to promulgate the defective doctrines of certain secular churches in preference to our own. As an individual he is welcome to believe anything he wishes, but he could no longer legitimately pretend to be an emissary of the Lord’s restored Kingdom. Nor can those whose intellectual pursuits have led them to abandon the Lord’s position on economic freedom, the dispersion of political authority and the sanctity of private property, be allowed to receive his wages from the carefully garnered tithes of the Church when they profess to subscribe to doctrines which contain the seeds of ruthless dictatorship and Satanic compulsion–the very doctrines which we rejected as a human family in the First Estate.
I therefore desire that a number of policies be made effective at the Brigham Young University just as rapidly as circumstances will permit and that thereafter they should be put into effect throughout the entire Church educational system.
First, all curriculum's relating to economics, political science and history should be immediately reviewed and revised so that hereafter all classes will present in a positive, forthright manner the advantages of an open and free society over that of a culture which is characterized by strong and continuous intervention of government in the lives and affairs of the people.
Second, it should be emphasized as a fundamental tenet of the Church that we believe in honoring and sustaining Constitutional principles and that “sustaining” a government requires the honest citizen to be alert to the machinations of the enemies of freedom and actively participate in defending those principles which God has revealed to be divinely inspired.
Third, as a matter of policy as well as principle, University classes should stress the desirability of solving problems and settling issues through the peaceful, constitutional channels established by law and conscientiously resist the current trend to use the street as a public arena where anonymity and mobocracy inevitably combine to spread hysteria and terror.
Fourth, studies of Communism. Socialism and other forms of collectivism should be thoroughly explored in all their economic, political and social ramifications with the specific objective in mind of demonstrating why the Lord and His appointed leaders have rejected these techniques of political domination and economic control. I would like to see the students of the Brigham Young University become a cadre of ideological pioneers comparable to the American founding fathers who inspired a passion for liberty and a hope for freedom in the hearts of men throughout the earth. In our day and age this needs to be done again. The failures of Communism and Socialism have left a disillusioned and frustrated humanity hungering for a leadership which will show them a better way. The Brigham Young University must become the world center for the producing of such a leadership. And this can only be accomplished when teachers and classes are provided for the specific purpose of preparing students for this leadership role. So far, this has not been done and precious time is being lost. Steps should therefore be taken to remedy this situation immediately.
Fifth, a whole battery of extensive research projects should be launched on the graduate level to discover the most efficient and economical devices for the solution of current problems. The object should be to discover solutions which will not do violence to the inalienable rights of man the way the collectivist programs have done. In fact, if liberty-loving men had remained alert and sought these solutions earlier, there would have been far less likelihood that the modern causers would have found an open door into which they could thrust their collectivist foot.
In connection with this suggested research, I have in mind such things as a study in depth of problems involving medical care for the aged; sound retirement security programs; the improvement in the quantity and quality of education; the systematizing and simplifying of the law; the best procedures for the keeping of the peace, both domestically and between nations; the best procedures for the wise expenditures of funds to aid the poor so that they can retain their dignity and expeditiously assert their self-sufficiency as independent members of society.
In other words, no area of human suffering, maladjustment or iniquity should be considered beyond the pale of the University’s problem-solving team. I feel that the Socialistic and other collectivist answers to these problems have not only proven inadequate but too often they have degraded and corrupted the very people they were supposed to be helping. There are better solutions to be found within the framework of freedom and the Lord will show his servants the way if they will but gird themselves to the exploratory task which each problem involves. The day must come when the Elders of Zion have found the answers to the social, economic and political problems of the world. When they do, the words of Isaiah will be fulfilled which said, “And many people shall go and say, Come ye, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths...” I am anxious that the youth of Zion shall prepare themselves for this kind of leadership and eventually initiate the magnificent pattern of righteous living which prophets of God have warmly contemplated since the beginning of human history.
Of course, I appreciate that not everyone who is presently enrolled in the teaching profession of the Church educational system has either the background or convictions to enthusiastically support this enlarged assignment which the Brigham Young University must carry from this point onward. This, therefore, brings me to my final point.
Sixth, it should be the responsibility of the Church school administration to see that any member of the professional staff whose training or personal opinions are out of harmony with this basic program which I have briefly outlined, should be replaced as soon as possible by personnel who are competent to perform the educational functions required. This may result in some complaints, but I do not consider them justified in view of the task which lies before us. They are particularly unjustified when they come from those persons whose teaching inadequacies have created the necessity for a special remedial program of the extensive proportions I have described.
All phases of this new program should be initiated at the earliest possible date and frequent progress reports should keep me advised of its advancement.
