LDS Freedom Forum

"They seem to be a lot more desperate. The people coming across now are different."

Surveying her ranchland, Sue Chilton described what happens when smugglers walk close to their house at night: "We turn out the lights, Jim gets his guns and we sit somewhere in the dark in the middle of the house where we are not close to our window and wait for the action to be finished."

Her husband, Jim, who comes from several generations of ranchers, said he has never seen the border as dangerous as it is now.

"It's outrageous. I'm a citizen of the United States. I expect to be protected like everybody else," he said. "The border is not secure, it is worse than it's ever been."
Too bad we lost Russell Pearce..
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You can thank a lot of Mormons for the loss of Russell Pearce. I was involved in that battle and I saw that many Mormons believe in open borders, and many still think Pearce is a mean guy. The Mormon RINO who replaced him in the state senate got voted out this past November, just a year later. To get Pearce out, the recall election organizers got hoards of normally democrat voters to vote in what was an election between 2 republicans. Those same democrats voted for the democrat this November.

lundbaek wrote:You can thank a lot of Mormons for the loss of Russell Pearce. I was involved in that battle and I saw that many Mormons believe in open borders, and many still think Pearce is a mean guy. The Mormon RINO who replaced him in the state senate got voted out this past November, just a year later. To get Pearce out, the recall election organizers got hoards of normally democrat voters to vote in what was an election between 2 republicans. Those same democrats voted for the democrat this November.

Sickening! X(

I have lived in the border region of Arizona three times now. I turned down two good job offers in the Sierra Vista area. It is simply to dangerous.

Not gonna happen. The Book of Mormon is actually quite clear on this...the Lamanites will be among the Gentiles as lions among sheep. The USA will never be able to logistically remove 12 million illegal immigrants. Mitt's answer in the primary, self deportation, was your best bet.

And Russell Pearce here in Mexico, is termed a Nazi and worse, as is Governor Brewer.

samizdat wrote:Not gonna happen. The Book of Mormon is actually quite clear on this...the Lamanites will be among the Gentiles as lions among sheep. The USA will never be able to logistically remove 12 million illegal immigrants. Mitt's answer in the primary, self deportation, was your best bet.

And Russell Pearce here in Mexico, is termed a Nazi and worse, as is Governor Brewer.

" We believe in obeying the laws of the land". Thats too bad about Russell Peace and Gov. Brewer. I live in Az and see firsthand the problem with illegal immigration. My opinion is they were trying to uphold the law.

I became acquainted with Russell Pearce in 2004 and have done what I could to support him even though we live in a neighboring AZ legislative district. He is certainly no Nazi, nor is he hateful toward hispanics even though he was shot once in the hand and chest by an illegal immigrant. He is well aware of what is really behind the fomenting of illegal immigration, although in speaking of it he leaves off at upholding the law. Not many people understand the treason being perpetrated by many of those fomenting illegal immigration and amnesty. And many believe that righteousness and charity include supporting initiatives, programs and legislation that force others to involuntarily contribute to the welfare of others, including illegal immigrants. They claim that a "higher law" trumps immigration laws. Hard feeliings still exist between many LDS people resulting from the illegal immigration and recall election controversies.

So the solution is to shoot more immigrants right? :ymsick: I'll tell you that won't work, the drug cartels are scarier by far than our military.

Andrew52 wrote:

samizdat wrote:Not gonna happen. The Book of Mormon is actually quite clear on this...the Lamanites will be among the Gentiles as lions among sheep. The USA will never be able to logistically remove 12 million illegal immigrants. Mitt's answer in the primary, self deportation, was your best bet.

And Russell Pearce here in Mexico, is termed a Nazi and worse, as is Governor Brewer.

" We believe in obeying the laws of the land". Thats too bad about Russell Peace and Gov. Brewer. I live in Az and see firsthand the problem with illegal immigration. My opinion is they were trying to uphold the law.

IT is very simple to say "obey the laws of the land" but when you have an immigration system that is certifiably broken and that requires a lot of money to even think about getting a legal visa, what can you do?

I'm saying that there is NO way that you are going to deport 12 million immigrants from the United States. Here in Mexico there are illegal immigrants from Central America but once you break the southern border posts in Chiapas and Tabasco, and you ride the Beast, you won't get caught and deported.


The only thing you can reasonably do is reform the immigration laws and make it easier for LEGAL immigrants to enter, and make it harder for ILLEGAL immigrants to enter. Look at Australia's and Canada's immigration laws; those are far more sensible.

Andrew52 wrote:

samizdat wrote:Not gonna happen. The Book of Mormon is actually quite clear on this...the Lamanites will be among the Gentiles as lions among sheep. The USA will never be able to logistically remove 12 million illegal immigrants. Mitt's answer in the primary, self deportation, was your best bet.

And Russell Pearce here in Mexico, is termed a Nazi and worse, as is Governor Brewer.

" We believe in obeying the laws of the land". Thats too bad about Russell Peace and Gov. Brewer. I live in Az and see firsthand the problem with illegal immigration. My opinion is they were trying to uphold the law.

IT is very simple to say "obey the laws of the land" but when you have an immigration system that is certifiably broken and that requires a lot of money to even think about getting a legal visa, what can you do?

I'm saying that there is NO way that you are going to deport 12 million immigrants from the United States. Here in Mexico there are illegal immigrants from Central America but once you break the southern border posts in Chiapas and Tabasco, and you ride the Beast, you won't get caught and deported.


The only thing you can reasonably do is reform the immigration laws and make it easier for LEGAL immigrants to enter, and make it harder for ILLEGAL immigrants to enter. Look at Australia's and Canada's immigration laws; those are far more sensible.

Workable solutions have been proposed, but since the latter-day gadiantons have such control over the US FedGov and many in state governments want illegal immigration to continue, the situation is only gonna get worse. I believe recent surges in the number of Hispanic voters are making the country potentially friendlier to Democratic candidates and less receptive to some important principles of the US Constitution.

SmallFarm wrote:So the solution is to shoot more immigrants right? :ymsick: I'll tell you that won't work, the drug cartels are scarier by far than our military.

#-o

Andrew52 wrote:

SmallFarm wrote:So the solution is to shoot more immigrants right? :ymsick: I'll tell you that won't work, the drug cartels are scarier by far than our military.

#-o

That just seams to me what you suggest Andrew, correct me if I'm wrong.

SmallFarm wrote:So the solution is to shoot more immigrants right? :ymsick: I'll tell you that won't work, the drug cartels are scarier by far than our military.

IMHO, having a presence of the military doesn't inherently mean that you want to kill someone, however, being on patrol could allow for people to pick up that there is an armed conflict in progress, and offer a response to that armed conflict. The real problem, however, is the fact that our nation is corrupt in not prioritizing protection against actual lawlessness on our nation's borders as opposed to handling other nations' issues, often to get natural resources like oil, gold, and other precious commodities out of them. However, I'm not beyond having a little faith that the Lord would bless genuine efforts of a nation to defend itself on the borders as opposed to acting in an aggressive imperialistic manner.

Benjamin_LK wrote:

SmallFarm wrote:So the solution is to shoot more immigrants right? :ymsick: I'll tell you that won't work, the drug cartels are scarier by far than our military.

IMHO, having a presence of the military doesn't inherently mean that you want to kill someone, however, being on patrol could allow for people to pick up that there is an armed conflict in progress, and offer a response to that armed conflict. The real problem, however, is the fact that our nation is corrupt in not prioritizing protection against actual lawlessness on our nation's borders as opposed to handling other nations' issues, often to get natural resources like oil, gold, and other precious commodities out of them. However, I'm not beyond having a little faith that the Lord would bless genuine efforts of a nation to defend itself on the borders as opposed to acting in an aggressive imperialistic manner.

Or maybe He might bless us for allowing those poor refugees asylum in our country?

America is a privilage, not a right. It has to be earned. Applying for work visas or citizenship through proper channels.

Anywhere else in the world, millions of foreign nationals illegally invading a sovereign country is an act of war! A small number of treasonous politicians are betraying the American people. Americans must demand our laws be enforced and our borders secured. We can end illegal immigration forever if we hold our politicians accountable.

Andrew52 wrote:America is a privilage, not a right. It has to be earned. Applying for work visas or citizenship through proper channels.

Anywhere else in the world, millions of foreign nationals illegally invading a sovereign country is an act of war! A small number of treasonous politicians are betraying the American people. Americans must demand our laws be enforced and our borders secured. We can end illegal immigration forever if we hold our politicians accountable.

So we should have to apply for citizenship at 18, (those of us privileged enough to have been born here) not automatically get it?
Rights are freely given by God. It is our duty to protect them, not just for ourselves but for ALL our brothers and sisters within our sphere of influence. That means they need to come here so that we can do so.

Question: Who owns the united states of America? :-\

SmallFarm wrote:Question: Who owns the united states of America? :-\

Question: Who pays taxes in The United States of America?

SmallFarm wrote:Question: Who owns the united states of America? :-\

The Rothschilds and associated bankers/corps...

SmallFarm wrote:

Benjamin_LK wrote:

SmallFarm wrote:So the solution is to shoot more immigrants right? :ymsick: I'll tell you that won't work, the drug cartels are scarier by far than our military.

IMHO, having a presence of the military doesn't inherently mean that you want to kill someone, however, being on patrol could allow for people to pick up that there is an armed conflict in progress, and offer a response to that armed conflict. The real problem, however, is the fact that our nation is corrupt in not prioritizing protection against actual lawlessness on our nation's borders as opposed to handling other nations' issues, often to get natural resources like oil, gold, and other precious commodities out of them. However, I'm not beyond having a little faith that the Lord would bless genuine efforts of a nation to defend itself on the borders as opposed to acting in an aggressive imperialistic manner.

Or maybe He might bless us for allowing those poor refugees asylum in our country?

So long as they aren't engaging in an all-out act of violence against others, that's fine. The military isn't solely about killing, it also includes training to keep order and protect people too. That's something that gets underrated a lot about them, but the armed forces can keep refugees safe.

BrentL wrote:

SmallFarm wrote:Question: Who owns the united states of America? :-\

Christ. And he has given this land to the descendants of Lehi, at the command of Father. but you know, Christ and Father didnt ask the taxpayers did they?

It is a law to pay taxes. And we believe in upholding the law as written in the scriptures of God and Christ, right? Who revealed the Doctrine and Covenants to Joseph Smith?

D&C
1 We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.

2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

3 We believe that all governments necessarily require civil offices and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign.

And who does the Prophet receive inspiration from concerning the running of His church?


Immigration: LDS Church issues new statement

• The LDS Church discourages its members of the Mormon faith from entering any country without legal documentation.
• Immigration issues need to be resolved at the federal government level.
"The Church supports an approach where undocumented immigrants are allowed to square themselves with the LAW and continue to work without this necessarily leading to citizenship.

It is my understanding that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. That is certainly the message I get from statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson. I believe that was the Lord's desire and plan, but I also believe He realized we would screw it up and that most Americans, and even most Mormons would not bother to learn and uphold the principles of the US Constitution. So we got off on the wrong foot from the get go and have gotten into our "awful situation" thru our neglect of His advice. In my own mind I can trace our awful immigration situation back to that neglect.

lundbaek wrote:It is my understanding that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. That is certainly the message I get from statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson. I believe that was the Lord's desire and plan, but I also believe He realized we would screw it up and that most Americans, and even most Mormons would not bother to learn and uphold the principles of the US Constitution. So we got off on the wrong foot from the get go and have gotten into our "awful situation" thru our neglect of His advice. In my own mind I can trace our awful immigration situation back to that neglect.

We have enough and to spare for all who God leads here.
Immigration isn't what is destroying our country, it is Godlessness and socialism.

BrentL wrote:

SmallFarm wrote:Question: Who owns the united states of America? :-\

Christ. And he has given this land to the descendants of Lehi, at the command of Father. but you know, Christ and Father didnt ask the taxpayers did they?

Bingo. If I have a disagreement with my brother, do I have the right to bar him from entering my Fathers land?