LDS Freedom Forum

The majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status.
Violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens.

STILL think illegal immigration is an innocent victimless crime. Still you want to pay taxes for them? @-)

lundbaek wrote:You can thank a lot of Mormons for the loss of Russell Pearce. I was involved in that battle and I saw that many Mormons believe in open borders, and many still think Pearce is a mean guy. The Mormon RINO who replaced him in the state senate got voted out this past November, just a year later. To get Pearce out, the recall election organizers got hoards of normally democrat voters to vote in what was an election between 2 republicans. Those same democrats voted for the democrat this November.

Pearce is a jerk.... if his approach was a bit different hey I'd support him, he just has a personal vendetta against anyone non white..period...he likes to appear all Pro-constitution,protector of our land... etc, when in reality he foolishly ignores these people have rights too.. as they are his brothers and sisters, and fellow human beings.. but hey I forget a lot of these people think of these other people as lesser beings... how I wish I were given the power to have him switch shoes with some of these people... I'd love to see what he'd do in such a situation... =))

lundbaek wrote:If more Americans understood that illegal immigration is being deliberately fomented by people intent on destroying the US Constitution and our constitutional republican form of government they would surely resist it more than they do. The Lord established this nation by the hands of brave men and women for a purpose, and I advise all to figure out what that entire purpose is.

If more Mormons understood the prophecies instead of acting like they "own" the land then they'd understand God brings most of these people here for a reason obviously not understood by many LDS.. believe it... I mean if the one has to explain the purpose of immigration of Lamanites to U.S. soil.. then it is pointless to delve into the matter any further... sure there a rotten apples.... but most of these people are good people.

I would advice to take this one up to Him who is the giver of everything we have...but that may be against the rules .

The above statement that Pearce "has a personal vendetta against anyone non white.." is a lie. It is an opinion and should be expressed as such, not as a fact.

lundbaek wrote:The above statement that Pearce "has a personal vendetta against anyone non white.." is a lie. It is an opinion and should be expressed as such, not as a fact.

Ok, fair enough.

Z I happen to mostly agree with you on this. I have met very few Mexican people who were not very nice people. I have run in to a few idiots, but there are plenty of white, black asian etc idiots too. I think 2 big issues are mixed here If the decent people were allowed to get here legally, in a relatively easy manor the black market side of immigration would largely go away, then there are the drug runners who are a completely different problem and would not be so mixed up with the decent people.
As to your wishing some of these anti-immigration people could experience this, it reminded me of my sister. She is not anti immigration, but has kind of been put in the shoes of a Hispanic. She is blonde haired blue eyed of northern European decent, her husband is of Spanish decent with a Spanish name. She says since getting married it is much harder to get a job even though she is very qualified. She once turned in some 10 applications, her friend (with an English name)about 6. Some to the same places. The friend got 4 calls my sister 0 even though she was better qualified. It does give an interesting perspective on how volatile this issue is, and the preconcieved notions many have just looking at a name.
I'm afraid this issue has gotten to the point that only the Lord can straighten it out and that may not be pretty for anyone.

Zkulptor wrote:

lundbaek wrote:You can thank a lot of Mormons for the loss of Russell Pearce. I was involved in that battle and I saw that many Mormons believe in open borders, and many still think Pearce is a mean guy. The Mormon RINO who replaced him in the state senate got voted out this past November, just a year later. To get Pearce out, the recall election organizers got hoards of normally democrat voters to vote in what was an election between 2 republicans. Those same democrats voted for the democrat this November.

Pearce is a jerk.... if his approach was a bit different hey I'd support him, he just has a personal vendetta against anyone non white..period...he likes to appear all Pro-constitution,protector of our land... etc, when in reality he foolishly ignores these people have rights too.. as they are his brothers and sisters, and fellow human beings.. but hey I forget a lot of these people think of these other people as lesser beings... how I wish I were given the power to have him switch shoes with some of these people... I'd love to see what he'd do in such a situation... =))

Pearce is not a jerk. He was the man for the job. They who ousted him are the crooks.
This bleeding heart mantra makes me ill. :ymsick: Of course they are fellow human beings, who need to obey the law or receive the consequences.

How dare Russell Pearce try to protect the citizens of Arizona?

Its time to realize the border issue is not an issue of race, but rather an issue of security and politics. The racists are the ones who, when it comes to protecting America’s borders, swipe the racist card because they are implying all illegals are Hispanic. That in itself is racist.

‘’Being an illegal in Arizona is a crime, in Washington D.C. it’s a vote.” Sad but true.

Zkulptor wrote:If more Mormons understood the prophecies instead of acting like they "own" the land then they'd understand God brings most of these people here for a reason obviously not understood by many LDS.. believe it...

I don't believe for one moment that God has anything to do with illegal immigrants coming into this land by lying, cheating and dishonesty. God does not support evil, and for anyone that thinks he does has far more to learn than those poor immigrants that have all these rights to American lifestyle, coupled with underhanded ways of getting benefits. GOD DOES NOT SUPPORT WRONG DOING, PERIOD. Nor does he bring people into this country via evil methods. That would make him a liar, and not God.

freedomfighter wrote:

Zkulptor wrote:If more Mormons understood the prophecies instead of acting like they "own" the land then they'd understand God brings most of these people here for a reason obviously not understood by many LDS.. believe it...

I don't believe for one moment that God has anything to do with illegal immigrants coming into this land by lying, cheating and dishonesty. God does not support evil, and for anyone that thinks he does has far more to learn than those poor immigrants that have all these rights to American lifestyle, coupled with underhanded ways of getting benefits. GOD DOES NOT SUPPORT WRONG DOING, PERIOD. Nor does he bring people into this country via evil methods. That would make him a liar, and not God.

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

Andrew52 wrote:

freedomfighter wrote:

Zkulptor wrote:If more Mormons understood the prophecies instead of acting like they "own" the land then they'd understand God brings most of these people here for a reason obviously not understood by many LDS.. believe it...

I don't believe for one moment that God has anything to do with illegal immigrants coming into this land by lying, cheating and dishonesty. God does not support evil, and for anyone that thinks he does has far more to learn than those poor immigrants that have all these rights to American lifestyle, coupled with underhanded ways of getting benefits. GOD DOES NOT SUPPORT WRONG DOING, PERIOD. Nor does he bring people into this country via evil methods. That would make him a liar, and not God.

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

Even cavemen knew better than to believe such nonsense such as God bringing illegals into this country by means of dishonesty, etc.

Really? I believe the Book of Mormon specifically prophesies that when the Gentiles of the latter days become wicked God will deliver this land to the Lamanites for their inheritance. Who do you think the scriptures were talking about?

I imagine the Philistines, or the people of Jericho thought the same thing when the children of Israel came in to their land and wiped them out. God would never allow this!! These people are evil.
If the laws are unjust is God bound to honor them? Why was it ok in the 1800's for huge waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc come to the US unchecked but all of a sudden it is horrible and evil for the Mexicans, and central Americans to come??? There should be rules to keep out as much of the bad element as possible, but it should be easy and accessable for anyone who is not a criminal.

Andrew52 wrote:

Zkulptor wrote:

lundbaek wrote:You can thank a lot of Mormons for the loss of Russell Pearce. I was involved in that battle and I saw that many Mormons believe in open borders, and many still think Pearce is a mean guy. The Mormon RINO who replaced him in the state senate got voted out this past November, just a year later. To get Pearce out, the recall election organizers got hoards of normally democrat voters to vote in what was an election between 2 republicans. Those same democrats voted for the democrat this November.

Pearce is a jerk.... if his approach was a bit different hey I'd support him, he just has a personal vendetta against anyone non white..period...he likes to appear all Pro-constitution,protector of our land... etc, when in reality he foolishly ignores these people have rights too.. as they are his brothers and sisters, and fellow human beings.. but hey I forget a lot of these people think of these other people as lesser beings... how I wish I were given the power to have him switch shoes with some of these people... I'd love to see what he'd do in such a situation... =))

Pearce is not a jerk. He was the man for the job. They who ousted him are the crooks.
This bleeding heart mantra makes me ill. :ymsick: Of course they are fellow human beings, who need to obey the law or receive the consequences.

How dare Russell Pearce try to protect the citizens of Arizona?

Its time to realize the border issue is not an issue of race, but rather an issue of security and politics. The racists are the ones who, when it comes to protecting America’s borders, swipe the racist card because they are implying all illegals are Hispanic. That in itself is racist.

‘’Being an illegal in Arizona is a crime, in Washington D.C. it’s a vote.” Sad but true.

The love of many shall wax cold

bbrown wrote:I imagine the Philistines, or the people of Jericho thought the same thing when the children of Israel came in to their land and wiped them out. God would never allow this!! These people are evil.
If the laws are unjust is God bound to honor them? Why was it ok in the 1800's for huge waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc come to the US unchecked but all of a sudden it is horrible and evil for the Mexicans, and central Americans to come??? There should be rules to keep out as much of the bad element as possible, but it should be easy and accessable for anyone who is not a criminal.

Don't new 18 year-olds vote democratic? Deport them ALL! :ymdevil:

SmallFarm wrote:

bbrown wrote:I imagine the Philistines, or the people of Jericho thought the same thing when the children of Israel came in to their land and wiped them out. God would never allow this!! These people are evil.
If the laws are unjust is God bound to honor them? Why was it ok in the 1800's for huge waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc come to the US unchecked but all of a sudden it is horrible and evil for the Mexicans, and central Americans to come??? There should be rules to keep out as much of the bad element as possible, but it should be easy and accessable for anyone who is not a criminal.

Don't new 18 year-olds vote democratic? Deport them ALL! :ymdevil:

Wait, aren't 18 yr olds citizens? Your reasoning ability is remarkable! )

Fairminded wrote:Really? I believe the Book of Mormon specifically prophesies that when the Gentiles of the latter days become wicked God will deliver this land to the Lamanites for their inheritance. Who do you think the scriptures were talking about?

Dec. 1975, Who and Where Are the Lamanites? https://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/12/who- ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
By Lane Johnson

Assistant Editor

Worldwide Distribution of Lamanites

To produce a map that shows where the Lamanites of the world are located today, the mapmaker must first decide exactly what a Lamanite is. This turns out to be no small task, because the term Lamanite is used in several different senses in the scriptures to describe a particular racial lineage, a political/religious group, a covenant people, etc. However, the Old and New Testaments and the Book of Mormon, viewed together in one limited sense as a partial record of the peopling of the earth, provide a useful context in which to view this problem.
Descendants of the Book of Mormon peoples (Population density)

The history of the peopling of the earth is really a history of the scattering of the descendants of Noah, who is sometimes referred to as the “second father of mankind.” This general scattering began soon after the Flood when the sons of Noah and their children began to spread forth “in their lands, … after their nations” (see Gen. 10:5, 20, 31) and was greatly accelerated at the time of the Tower of Babel, when the Lord confounded the people’s language and did “scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.” (Gen. 11:9.)

Immediately after the description of Babel in Genesis 11, the Old Testament record moves quickly to Abraham, a descendant of Shem, and ceases thereafter to be a record of all the descendants of Noah; instead, it focuses almost entirely on the Lord’s covenant people, presumably a relatively small part of the earth’s total population at that time. We know very little about the remainder of Noah’s seed, except that in time they wandered throughout the extent of the land to become the heathen nations of the earth.

The nations of the earth had been dispersing from the Tower of Babel for 1,500 years when the Ten Tribes of Israel were carried captive into Assyria. Shortly thereafter, Judah was taken into exile by Nebuchadnezzar, and although one group was permitted to return to rebuild Jerusalem, the bulk of the kingdom of Judah remained in Babylon to be eventually dispersed. Then, in A.D. 70, the remainder of the Jews were driven from the promised land by the Romans to complete the scattering of Israel.

What we see in this brief account is a picture of the general dissemination of the descendants of Noah throughout the world, beginning at the time of the Flood, with other groups—remnants of Israel—breaking away at intervals to follow the earlier migrants to the various corners of the earth and establish themselves among them as strangers, though distantly related.

Within this broad picture we find the people of the Book of Mormon, which is a partial record of some of those who were, at various times, led out of the Old World by the Lord to become established in the American continents: the Jaredites, who were led away at the time of the Tower of Babel and were, therefore, a part of the earliest dissemination of the descendants of Noah; the Lehi colony, led out of Jerusalem during the reign of Zedekiah, just prior to the captivity of Judah by Nebuchadnezzar; and the colony of Mulek, the youngest son of Zedekiah, who departed Jerusalem eleven years after Lehi.

The term Lamanite was first applied to the literal family of Laman, Lehi’s eldest son. This name very soon took on a broader application, however, when Laman, Lemuel, and some of the sons of Ishmael rebelled against and sought to kill Nephi, in whom the Lord had vested his authority. At that time the Lord cut them off from his presence and caused a darker skin coloring to come upon them. (See 2 Ne. 5:19–21.) Thereafter the name Lamanite referred to a religious/political faction whose distinguishing feature was its opposition to the church. (See Jacob 1:13–14.) Lineage became an increasingly minor factor, and later there are many examples of Lamanites becoming Nephites and Nephites becoming Lamanites.

For nearly 200 years after the coming of Christ to the Americas, there were no Lamanites “nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.” (4 Ne. 1:17.) Soon, however, a part of the people fell away and took upon them the name of Lamanites; “therefore there began to be Lamanites again in the land.” (4 Ne. 1:20.) Clearly, Lamanite in this case again refers to the state of righteousness of a political/religious group, presumably a composite of the descendants of many of the original colonists in the New World. The Lamanites of this definition survived beyond the close of the Book of Mormon record, and it is these people from whom the Lamanites of today descended. That is to say, they are the descendants of Lehi, Ishmael, and Zoram (see D&C 3:17–18); they are the descendants of Mulek and the others of his colony (see Hel. 6:10; Omni 1:14, 15); and they may also be descended from other groups of whom we have no record. Certainly they have mixed with many other lineages at the far reaches of their dispersal in the Americas and most of the islands of the Pacific since the time when Moroni bade them farewell in A.D. 421.

In this composite group is the blood of Israel, for we know that Lehi was of the tribe of Manasseh (see Alma 10:3), that Ishmael was of Ephraim (see JD 3:184), and that Mulek was of Judah, being a descendant of King David through Zedekiah. Therefore, the Lamanites of today—all the mixed descendants of the Book of Mormon peoples—have a legitimate claim to the blessings of the Abrahamic covenant and, in turn, the duty to now carry these blessings to those nations of the earth who yet remain in darkness, the remainder of the descendants of Noah.

Andrew52 wrote:

Maybe there is something to reincarnation. )

I believe I have stated this elsewhere on this forum, but here goes again. I believe that certain statements in the Book Mormon in 3 Nephi Chapters 16, 20 & 21 refer to events that will occurr in response to wickedness among the inhabitants of North America. As those events are / will themselves be evil, we should not assume they are something the Lord wants to inflict on us, nor should we accept them without resistance or encourage them in any way, as I think many Mormons are doing even now as they support illegal immigration, open borders, and amnesty for illegal aliens. I wish more people understood that amnesty and the fomenting of illegal immigration are part of the satanically driven plot to siphon off the wealth of America, to increase the size of the socialist voting bloc by securing voting rights for immigrants of socialist persuasion, and make such a shambles of our country that "we the people" will willingly submit to a world government.

While you are probably right, Lundbaek, the situation still exists that you cannot forcibly deport some 12 million people (unless you basically become the Soviet Union), nor can you force another country (Mexico in this case) to take them all back, short of declaring war and bombing them to smithereens. Plus, you have a potential Fifth Column of x millions of Hispanic descent already in the states (most of them legitimately and/or legally) who may fight like hell when they see those who look like them/have similar names being rounded up and shipped off. Legally here or not, these are still children of Heavenly Father.

This then is what I think was the reality behind the LDS Church's press releases from 2011 regarding the Utah Compact and dealing with illegal immigration - we have this situation (caused by liberals, socialists, multi-culturalists, and globalists) set up legally (by those in govt for their own nefarious purposes); we have millions of Hispanics hoping to better their lives who largely are guilty of nothing more than taking advantage of what the US Govt has set up legally (yes there are a few criminals among them doing the usual felonies /worse than violating immigration law); and we have the only effective remedy to use an awful lot of deadly force against these immigrants, their common demographic already here, and their homelands....

Boy if THAT ever happened, you have given major justification for the Lord to allow the Lions of Jacob to tear through the Gentile forest - as well as inviting the UN/Russians/Chinese to pour over the borders and occupy the USA since they have become a threat to all humanity - culmination of 60-70 years of oppression, beginning with the Atomic bomb, through various wars, chemical weapons, wars of occupations/unjustified wars, false-flags, drug trafficking, etc....and I am not even including here all of the abominations amongst the American people (abortion, homosexuality, immorality, pornography, abused/molested wives & children, etc).

I mention this since we do not have the will to at least station the Army along the Mexican border, let alone make a huge Berlin Wall (minus minefields and possibly electrical fences) which is what it would likely take to keep any more illegal immigrants out (from across the Mexican border, that is - they can still try from Canada, through our ports, etc.).

No, no, no the Utah Compact is a sham put out by the tares in the Church Communications Dept. The official position of the Church is that Latinos should not migrate to America but that they should stay in their own countries and help build and strengthen the stakes of Zion in their own countries.

http://newsroom.lds.org/article/immigra ... -statement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




10 June 2011 — Salt Lake City

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today issued the following official statement on immigration:
"Around the world, debate on the immigration question has become intense. That is especially so in the United States. Most Americans agree that the federal government of the United States should secure its borders and sharply reduce or eliminate the flow of undocumented immigrants. Unchecked and unregulated, such a flow may destabilize society and ultimately become unsustainable.

"As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its members from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas."

That statement put the matter to bed for me. But few there be that realize that statements by Church leaders often substitute the words "encourage" or "discourage" in place of "command" as a "kinder and gentler" way of making their point.

GeeR wrote:No, no, no the Utah Compact is a sham put out by the tares in the Church Communications Dept. The official position of the Church is that Latinos should not migrate to America but that they should stay in their own countries and help build and strengthen the stakes of Zion in their own countries.

Interesting that you are quick to label that as such....but the statements about finding an effective way to humanely deal with the issue were not dealing with LDS migrating to America (aside from the portion that Lundbaek just quoted), but what to do with all those (mainly hispanics) who were already here illegally.

Mercy cannot rob justice!