Deleted

[MsEva]

Just as a note on carrying arms:

1) Gideon and his small army carried arms and armor into battle, by the Lord's command, yet were allowed to watch as sheer terror in the night pretty much defeated the Midianites for them.

2) Joseph Smith the prophet of the Restoration, assembled Zion's Camp, yes, the members of Zion's Camp carried muskets and knives with them. When threatened by an angry militia, the Lord gave a flood to keep the enemy away.

3) Orrin Porter Rockwell was a gun-toting bodyguard miraculously spared from knives and bullets for his faithfulness to a modern Nazirite Vow, and yes, he was willing to use violent force.

4) Nephi was ordered by the Lord to kill Laban in Jerusalem.

5) Moses was commanded by God to kill unrepentant sinners among the children of Israel, multiple times, and command wars against enemy kingdoms while in the wilderness.

6) Captain Moroni and his Generals fought a long war against an invading force of Lamanites both Lamanites, and lead by vicious Nephite apostates, Amalickiah, and his brother Amoron.

The important point in all these examples, and there are more, are the fact that they defended their families, their country, and their freedom, while they did shed some blood, it was, at the same time, not in their hearts, as the above poster mentioned, a desire to shed blood. That's something more important than just defense of your home. I would, unless with a vast exception prompted to me by the spirit, protect my home and other people in need of my defense. However, I wouldn't hope for the enemy to die, but rather, would hope that either he chickens out or we can push for a peace negotiation, but if neither of these work, well, there's the last resort. I have heard from the above posters about the destroyer from Revelation, at the same time, there's unjust and just causes. I feel that there will be false calls into unjust and unrighteous wars, which are different from how the Lord does justify one in defense of family (see Doctrine and Covenants Section 98)

Thanks for sharing this.

[dlbww]

How would I keep the rabbits out of my beets?

[Benjamin_LK]

How would I keep the rabbits out of my beets?

Serve them at the dinner table, after all, my Grandmother would love the ingredients for her goulash.

[jbalm]

no

[freedomforall]

Listen closely. What is President Benson saying?

Post the profound statements heard. What is our responsibility? What is jeopardized by not doing so, etc. Also, if the BoM is for our day then defending our families, our homes and our liberty is part of it, right?

[freedomforall]

I don't need guns

D&C 1:14 and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

Listen to Pesident Benson and then see if you don't have a responsibility. What is it that he says we are to do...at any cost?

[tmac]

Sooner or later something we're all going to have to come to grips with is that even more importantly than what the Church says or what the Brethren say, is what God Himself says to each of us through the Holy Ghost.

If and/or when God says give up your guns, then it's a question of God's will or my will, in which case the correct answer is Thy Will be done. But until then, we should never automatically assume that anything and everything we hear from anyone but God Himself (including through the HG) actually represents God's Word or God's Will.

[freedomforall]

Sooner or later something we're all going to have to come to grips with is that even more importantly than what the Church says or what the Brethren say, is what God Himself says to each of us through the Holy Ghost.

If and/or when God says give up your guns, then it's a question of God's will or my will, in which case the correct answer is Thy Will be done. But until then, we should never automatically assume that anything and everything we hear from anyone but God Himself (including through the HG) actually represents God's Word or God's Will.

God had the Constitution written and is the law of the land, although it doesn't appear to be today.
God had the scriptures written to guide us.
If God were to tell us to give up guns, he would be ripping away our 2nd Amendment right to own and bear arms.
That would be like tearing one of the five gospels out of the New Testament.

Our right to bear arms is what makes us free...otherwise we become slaves to government.

[Ben McClintock]

I don't need guns

D&C 1:14 and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

Listen to Pesident Benson and then see if you don't have a responsibility. What is it that he says we are to do...at any cost?

Lots of things. Could you refresh my memory what he said on this topic?

Did he say "no matter what anyone else may say in the future, you need your guns so never give them up"?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Sooner or later something we're all going to have to come to grips with is that even more importantly than what the Church says or what the Brethren say, is what God Himself says to each of us through the Holy Ghost.

If and/or when God says give up your guns, then it's a question of God's will or my will, in which case the correct answer is Thy Will be done. But until then, we should never automatically assume that anything and everything we hear from anyone but God Himself (including through the HG) actually represents God's Word or God's Will.

:ymapplause:

[Ben McClintock]

Sooner or later something we're all going to have to come to grips with is that even more importantly than what the Church says or what the Brethren say, is what God Himself says to each of us through the Holy Ghost.

If and/or when God says give up your guns, then it's a question of God's will or my will, in which case the correct answer is Thy Will be done. But until then, we should never automatically assume that anything and everything we hear from anyone but God Himself (including through the HG) actually represents God's Word or God's Will.

Here is what a member of the Godhead said

In the 1st section of the Doctrine and Covenants He says,

“14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;”

The Lord says that if we don’t listen to Him or His servants the Prophets and Apostles that we will be cut off. In verse 38 he explains why,

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

The Lord explains the spirit of those that do not obey His servants in verse 16

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, … substance is that of an idol

[freedomforall]

I don't need guns

D&C 1:14 and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

Lots of things. Could you refresh my memory what he said on this topic?

Did he say "no matter what anyone else may say in the future, you need your guns so never give them up"?

Watch the previous video starting at the 2:23 mark. He says to stand up for freedom "no matter what the cost." Would this imply throwing away your gun(s)?

In another video he says "once freedom is lost, it will take blood to gain it back." And "God placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution."

Pay close attention:

[sbsion]

the church can't, it's not a prophet, the prophet won't, because it would defy the constitution

[JohnnyL]

Does "do as the prophets say and give up your guns" conflict with any COMMANDMENT or the scriptures?

Does "keep your gun" = "defend liberty and freedoms"?

Can anyone think of "<something else> = "defend liberty and freedoms"?

Perhaps these questions can be of assistance, even for strong believers in prophets and the Book of Mormon:
--did you read the Book of Mormon today, for 30 minutes?
--how many people have you shared the gospel with today? this week? this month?
--have you done your home teaching this month?
--have you been to the temple or done genealogy this month?
--have you served a stranger or a friend today?
--do you have a year's supply of food?
--have you written your govt. representative?
--do you have a freedom blog, did you post a good comment on a freedom blog, did you post a good comment on a freedom article on a newspaper website, etc. (outside of this great website )?
--can you do a basic defense of belief on "hot topics" (those "four minute speeches" or even 30-second blurbs)?
--have you spoken to your children about any "hot topic" and taught them today?
etc.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just expanding...

[Ben McClintock]

Watch the previous video starting at the 2:23 mark. He says to stand up for freedom "no matter what the cost." Would this imply throwing away your gun(s)? not necessarily

In another video he says "once freedom is lost, it will take blood to gain it back." And "God placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution."

Pay close attention:

Agree with all that, still don't need a gun

[Ben McClintock]

Does "do as the prophets say and give up your guns" conflict with any COMMANDMENT or the scriptures? no

Does "keep your gun" = "defend liberty and freedoms"? no

Can anyone think of "<something else> = "defend liberty and freedoms"?

Perhaps these questions can be of assistance, even for strong believers in prophets and the Book of Mormon:
--did you read the Book of Mormon today, for 30 minutes?
--how many people have you shared the gospel with today? this week? this month?
--have you done your home teaching this month?
--have you been to the temple or done genealogy this month?
--have you served a stranger or a friend today?
--do you have a year's supply of food?
--have you written your govt. representative?
--do you have a freedom blog, did you post a good comment on a freedom blog, did you post a good comment on a freedom article on a newspaper website, etc. (outside of this great website )?
--can you do a basic defense of belief on "hot topics" (those "four minute speeches" or even 30-second blurbs)?
--have you spoken to your children about any "hot topic" and taught them today?
etc.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just expanding...

[Benjamin Harrison]

This thread is all hypothetical, speculative, and won't happen so......... why dwell on this and argue about it. I think the poll and conversation should be, "What will you do if the government tells you to turn in all your guns, would you........?

[Ben McClintock]

This thread is all hypothetical, speculative, and won't happen so......... why dwell on this and argue about it. I think the poll and conversation should be, "What will you do if the government tells you to turn in all your guns, would you........?

Why is that any less hypothetical or speculative?

[Thomas]

I am pretty sure that those who make it to Zion will be without weapons. They will not fight their way there. I believe this from my indepth study of the Book of Isaiah. It talks quite a lot about waiting on the Lord for safety. It also talks about the efforts of men to be in vain.

God will empower a destroyer to destroy the wicked. This destroyer will be invincible and reign over the entire world. There will be no escape from him or fighting him. Only by waiting on the Lord and being patient through the trail will any be saved. God will destroy the destroyer when his work is done and it looks like there is no hope for the righteous. Those that pick up weapons will join the wicked.

We often impart to God the destructions described in Revelations but i am not so sure. Who is to say that in a global war the government might not release bio-weapons that are race-specific and wipe out 1/3 of the population while the resulting disruption of infrastructure might be what kills off another 1/3?

And if the diseases were so well refined that they mainly attacked those with the y-chromosome then that may be why in the Bible it says there will be 7 women wishing to enter into marriage with every one man (either the Koran or the Haddith buts the ratio at 1/50).

Read Isaiah, where the lord tells us the destroyer will be his left arm.

[Benjamin Harrison]

Just wanted to stay on the hypothetical and speculative, since we are already there. Although, this one might actually happen as opposed to the Prophet banning them.

[tmac]

If we refrained from discussing anything that was hypothetical or speculative on LDSFF, it would wipe out 75% of the threads, posts and forum.

In terms of realistic hypothetical speculation, I think that Government seeking and attempting to disarm the American public is not all that unrealistic. I hope the brethren are prudent enough to plead the fifth and stay completely out of that discussion.

[Benjamin Harrison]

Good point Tmac. Hear is another thought. The Prophet would not go against ones free agency, and never force anyone to disarm.

[Ben McClintock]

Is it not plausible that the Pres of the Church would encourage everyone to "obey the law of the land"?

[tmac]

It is plausible -- but when a society has degenerated to the point that the laws of the land are at odds with the Laws of Nature and Nature's God, we would probably all (including prophets) do well to keep our own counsel in terms of talking about obeying those laws, unless specifically compelled by the Lord to speak -- which is highly unlikely.

Let's not forget that is a very slippery slope -- and we're already on it . . . with wars of aggression, abortion, gay marriage, etc., etc.

[Ben McClintock]

when a society has degenerated to the point that the laws of the land are at odds with the Laws of Nature and Nature's God,

Done.