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[SmallFarm]

Did Nephi give up his swords?

Would he have, had the Lord asked him to?

[Original_Intent]

Did Nephi give up his swords?

Would he have, had the Lord asked him to?

Is the Church the Lord?

[SmallFarm]

Did Nephi give up his swords?

Would he have, had the Lord asked him to?

Is the Church the Lord?

It's the Lord's

[Thomas]

Did Nephi give up his swords?

Was Nephi in ZIon? We are going to enter a new age, a terrestial age, without guns. The choice will be Zion or death. Terrestial law or death. There is no survival by carnal means. Those days are coming to an end.

[bobhenstra]

Did Nephi give up his swords?

Was Nephi in ZIon? We are going to enter a new age, a terrestial age, without guns. The choice will be Zion or death. Terrestial law or death. There is no survival by carnal means. Those days are coming to an end.

When and until it happens thomas!

[Ben McClintock]

It depends on what the Spirit told me to do.

Jules... IMHO, the spirit would never tell anyone to turn in their guns because the government said so or wants them for whatever reason - may as well sign your own death warrant if you comply with any gun confiscation order or hand over all you own to your government.

Then you have your answer. No need to pray

[Ben McClintock]

I don't need guns

D&C 1:14 and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

[bobhenstra]

When Gideon fought the Midianites, Our Lord instructed Gideon to send his army home except for just a few, and He (Our Lord) would fight their (Israel's) battle for them. Question; Did the Lord instruct the army Gideon sent home to lay down their arms, or retain them?

[Fiannan]

I am pretty sure that those who make it to Zion will be without weapons. They will not fight their way there. I believe this from my indepth study of the Book of Isaiah. It talks quite a lot about waiting on the Lord for safety. It also talks about the efforts of men to be in vain.

God will empower a destroyer to destroy the wicked. This destroyer will be invincible and reign over the entire world. There will be no escape from him or fighting him. Only by waiting on the Lord and being patient through the trail will any be saved. God will destroy the destroyer when his work is done and it looks like there is no hope for the righteous. Those that pick up weapons will join the wicked.

We often impart to God the destructions described in Revelations but i am not so sure. Who is to say that in a global war the government might not release bio-weapons that are race-specific and wipe out 1/3 of the population while the resulting disruption of infrastructure might be what kills off another 1/3?

And if the diseases were so well refined that they mainly attacked those with the y-chromosome then that may be why in the Bible it says there will be 7 women wishing to enter into marriage with every one man (either the Koran or the Haddith buts the ratio at 1/50).

[Benjamin Harrison]

No greater immediate responsibility rests upon members of the church, upon all citizens of this Republic and of neighboring Republics than to protect the freedom vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States. - David O Mckay.
"Sixth: 'Don't worry,' says the devil 'the Lord will protect you, and besides the world is so corrupt and heading toward destruction at such a pace that you can't stop it, so why try.' Well to begin with, the Lord will not protect us unless we do our part. This devilish tactic of persuading people not to get concerned because the Lord will protect them no matter what they do is exposed by the Book of Mormon. Referring to the devil, it says, "And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, and then will say: All is well in Zion, yea, Zion prospereth, all is well-and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell." (2 nephi 28:21) I like that word 'carefully.' In other words, don't shake them, you might wake them up. But the Book of Mormon warns us that when we should see these murderous conspiracies in our midst that we should awake to our aweful situation. Now why should we awake if the Lord is going to take care of us anyway? Now let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness sake to stand up and fight. Some Book of Mormon prophets knew of the final desolate end of their nations, but they still fought on, and they saved some souls including their own by so doing. For, after all, the purpose of life is to prove ourselves, and the final victory will be for freedom." - Ezra Taft Benson- Not Commanded in all Things.

[Nan]

I have a problem with this question "Yes. I would follow the Prophet's counsel, even though it goes against everything I believe in."

Following the prophet's counsel is what I believe in. And I definitely believe it it more than I believe in owning guns.

[Fiannan]

I have a problem with this question "Yes. I would follow the Prophet's counsel, even though it goes against everything I believe in."

Following the prophet's counsel is what I believe in. And I definitely believe it it more than I believe in owning guns.

I joined the Church around the same time Jim Jones was making headlines. I asked members what they would do if they were commanded to commit suicide. Never found even one that said they would do such a thing, even if the prophet said to do so.

I really do not believe the leader of our church would ever call on members to gi ve up their guns but if he did then I am confident that most members would do what Mormons have done since the days of Joseph Smith -- ignore what they don't agree with.

[JohnnyL]

There are a lot more ways to protect and fight against the enemy than with guns and weapons.

Where is Zion, where all will be safe?

If you have a gun right now, why?

If things get worse, will you keep it?

When will it be not necessary to have a gun--now, when it's worse, on the way to Zion (Where is it, again?), in Zion?

[Charley]

Just curious... Do the prophet's body guards carry?

[Benjamin Harrison]

Yes they do. And the Prophet himself owns several guns as well.

[Fiannan]

So what do you suppose Joseph Smith would say?

[Benjamin Harrison]

:ymapplause:

[Andrew52]

I am relatively sure we won't be asked to do that, but if we were, I would follow the Prophet.

[Benjamin_LK]

So what do you suppose Joseph Smith would say?

You beat me to it, and I laughed when I saw it. Good one Fiannan =)) ) =)) ) =)) ) =)) ) :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

[bobhenstra]

What would be giving up your guns entail? To the government, state, or local? I'd give them up to my local government on the grounds they stored them at my house!

[Col. Flagg]

What would be giving up your guns entail? To the government, state, or local? I'd give them up to my local government on the grounds they stored them at my house!

Amen Bobby! :ymapplause:

[Poltax]

I have been a bit amazed at some of the responses in this thread concerning protecting yourself and your families. It is our duty to do so. Yes the Lord has stated that he will fight our battles for us. But what does that really mean. To me, it means he will fight our battles for us, after we have done all we can to prepare. This is no different then food storage or spiritual prepardness. The Lord fighting our battles may very well mean that we are defending out homes and the Lord pacifies our enemies, or he sends a storm or what ever to change thier direction. But we still have to prepare and be ready. But in the end we have to show the faith & prepare to defend ourselves. The Lord is not going to just have us set in lawn chairs drinking shirley temples and he do all the work. I dont understand the attitude of those that will not prepare to defend themseleves, and then expect the Lord to do the work.

We train and prepare for the worst and pray we never have to use those skills. Training & preparing includes, physical, mental, & spititual.

Here are a few quote to think about:

"We all believe that the Lord will fight our battles; but how? Will He do it while we are unconcerned and make no effort whatever for our own safety when an enemy is upon us? If we make no effort to guard our towns, our houses, our cities, our wives and children, will the Lord guard them for us? He will not; but if we pursue the opposite course and strive to help Him to accomplish His designs, then will He fight our battles. We are baptized for the remission of sins; but it would be quite as unreasonable to expect a remission of sins without baptism, as to expect the Lord to fight our battles without our taking every precaution to be prepared to defend ourselves. The Lord requires us to be quite as willing to fight our own battles as to have Him fight them for us. If we are not ready for an enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of his kingdom."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 131, August 1-10, 1865


"Not only should we have strong spiritual homes, but we should have strong temporal homes. We should avoid bondage by getting out of debt as soon as we can, pay as we go, and live within our incomes. There is wisdom in having on hand a year's supply of food, clothing, fuel (if possible), and in being preparing to defend our families and our possessions and to take care of ourselves. I believe a man should prepare for the worst, while working for the best."
Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 263-264

"As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in peace, they will find themselves deceived and before they know, they will sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be ready to send their enemy to hell cross lots, whether they be Lamanites or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their property. We must be prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance and ten to one they will meet their grave."
Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol 1, p. 171 - 172, July 31, 1853

"Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives."
Alma 48:14

"And also, that God would make it known unto them whither they should go to defend themselves against their enemies, and by so doing, the Lord would deliver them; and this was the faith of Moroni, and his heart did glory in it; not in the shedding of blood but in doing good, in preserving his people, yea, in keeping the commandments of God, yea, and resisting iniquity."
Alma 48:16

"And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion."
Alma 43:47

“Today you cannot effectively fight for freedom and moral principles, and not be attacked, and those who think they can are deceiving themselves. While I do not believe in stepping out of the path of duty to pick up a cross I don't need, a man is a coward who refuses to pick up a cross that clearly lies within his path. No cross, no crown. No gall, no glory. No thorns, no throne.”
Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 394

“Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God, ye could do nothing and he would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this, ye have supposed in vain.”
Alma 60:11

[jackthe]

With Joseph Smith's last breath's at Carthage Jail what did he have in his hand?

[Benjamin_LK]

Just as a note on carrying arms:

1) Gideon and his small army carried arms and armor into battle, by the Lord's command, yet were allowed to watch as sheer terror in the night pretty much defeated the Midianites for them.

2) Joseph Smith the prophet of the Restoration, assembled Zion's Camp, yes, the members of Zion's Camp carried muskets and knives with them. When threatened by an angry militia, the Lord gave a flood to keep the enemy away.

3) Orrin Porter Rockwell was a gun-toting bodyguard miraculously spared from knives and bullets for his faithfulness to a modern Nazirite Vow, and yes, he was willing to use violent force.

4) Nephi was ordered by the Lord to kill Laban in Jerusalem.

5) Moses was commanded by God to kill unrepentant sinners among the children of Israel, multiple times, and command wars against enemy kingdoms while in the wilderness.

6) Captain Moroni and his Generals fought a long war against an invading force of Lamanites both Lamanites, and lead by vicious Nephite apostates, Amalickiah, and his brother Amoron.

The important point in all these examples, and there are more, are the fact that they defended their families, their country, and their freedom, while they did shed some blood, it was, at the same time, not in their hearts, as the above poster mentioned, a desire to shed blood. That's something more important than just defense of your home. I would, unless with a vast exception prompted to me by the spirit, protect my home and other people in need of my defense. However, I wouldn't hope for the enemy to die, but rather, would hope that either he chickens out or we can push for a peace negotiation, but if neither of these work, well, there's the last resort. I have heard from the above posters about the destroyer from Revelation, at the same time, there's unjust and just causes. I feel that there will be false calls into unjust and unrighteous wars, which are different from how the Lord does justify one in defense of family (see Doctrine and Covenants Section 98)

[HeirofNumenor]

I really do not believe the leader of our church would ever call on members to give up their guns but if he did then I am confident that most members would do what Mormons have done since the days of Joseph Smith -- ignore what they don't agree with.

Hence the Haun's Mill massacre...caused NOT by turning their guns in (was never an issue), but by rejecting the urgent counsel of the Prophet to flee their homes and farms and to gather with the other saints...