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Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 6:20 pm
by Benjamin_LK
HeirofNumenor wrote: I fear that many priesthood holders will die in the violence, simply because they reached for their guns instead of the Lord.
I see this as well....
Well, I see plenty of false calls made by man, sort of similar to the nature of OWS, or the other political movements, calling people to go out and join their own quests for retributions for perceived injustices. Again, Doctrine & Covenants 98 comes to my mind for the fact that there are plenty of guidelines in it for making sure you are acting for the right reasons, such as not going into a revolt as a first response to an unjust law, being willing to defend yourself should your life be threatened, forgive your enemy of injustice, and seek diplomatic solutions first.
What I feel about violence is that we as members of the church are going to choose between A) Following worldly flattery and B) Following God's word as delivered through prophets and/or prayer, hopefully both.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 6:23 pm
by Benjamin_LK
gruden2.0 wrote:I'm curious to the OP who posted the survey and started the thread. Was there a need? Do members have some quiet fear that the church Prez will tell people to hand in their guns? What is the basis for this fear?
Or is this some kind of litmus test? Is this an opportunity for some to show off just how far they're willing to go to heed the President?
In general terms, I don't believe the gov't will make any move to disarm anyone, despite the present clamor. They need to make it as easy as possible for people to kill each other in the coming civil war. If they didn't want people to have guns, people wouldn't be able to buy them in the record numbers as they are.
If you own a gun, you need to take care not to be swept up in the violence that is coming. I'm not against guns per se; I believe that if I owned one I would be too apt to rely on it for defense instead of relying on the Lord. I fear that many priesthood holders will die in the violence, simply because they reached for their guns instead of the Lord.
The government also needs to de-humanize their targets of hate, to make bigoted, unrighteous actions more appealing. Believe me, not throwing away or giving up your guns will allow them to point at you and say that you are dangerous, and an enemy of peace and the state. They will justify hate against faithful, righteous people by degrees. What's more important than guns, however, is whether or not we let the unrighteous desire to shed blood take hold in our hearts, and whether or not we allow ourselves to get the itchy trigger finger as opposed to be willing to resort to peaceable means first, and violence as a last resort.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 6:31 pm
by Original_Intent
tmac wrote:It's a good point. What we should all be seeking to know, understand and do is the Lord's Will. But let's not pretend that we always already know what it is, or that there is some one size-fits-all general answer. That's why the Lord provides the Spirit, to guide us individually, if we will do what is required to receive that guidance. Those that are not willing to recognize or do that are typically entirely dependent upon the Brethren, which is often their main (if not only) means of learning the Lord's will.
Excellent, lovely, of good report, and praiseworthy.
:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:
:ymhug:
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 7:23 pm
by Benjamin_LK
Benjamin_LK wrote:HeirofNumenor wrote: I fear that many priesthood holders will die in the violence, simply because they reached for their guns instead of the Lord.
I see this as well....
Well, I see plenty of false calls made by man, sort of similar to the nature of OWS, or the other political movements, calling people to go out and join their own quests for retributions for perceived injustices. Again, Doctrine & Covenants 98 comes to my mind for the fact that there are plenty of guidelines in it for making sure you are acting for the right reasons, such as not going into a revolt as a first response to an unjust law, being willing to defend yourself should your life be threatened, forgive your enemy of injustice, and seek diplomatic solutions first.
What I feel about violence is that we as members of the church are going to choose between A) Following worldly flattery and B) Following God's word as delivered through prophets and/or prayer, hopefully both.
By both I was referring to both listening to God's annointed and praying for confirmation.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 7:23 pm
by A Random Phrase
JulesGP wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why "Follow the Spirit" was not considered a good answer.... :-\
It doesn't matter at all what the Church says, what the government says, what my CCP says, what my dad says, what my itchy trigger finger says.... etc. Personal revelation by the spirit - in any situation is the right answer. The rest of the Church may opt to raise up an army - but the Lord may have a different plan FOR ME. The Church may tell us we will be exed if we keep our guns - but the Lord may have a different plan FOR ME. That answer for me may also vary in different situations, and may be a different answer than the guy next to me. Etc. It all depends, but it's up to Him.
Follow the spirit is my final answer.
:ymapplause:
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 7:24 pm
by A Random Phrase
tmac wrote:JulesGP wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why "Follow the Spirit" was not considered a good answer....
BM Wrote
Because 99.99% of the time it's a cop out
But it still not just a "good" answer, it's the RIGHT answer. BM is also right in that the statement is often used as a cop-out, but in terms of what it really means and the correctness of that position, from my perspective, it is irrefutable. If the prophet tells you to do one thing, and God tells you to do another -- and you are absolutely sure of the source -- DO WHAT
GOD TELLS YOU, PERSONALLY, TO DO!
Why do we even argue and debate about stuff like that?
Amen and amen!
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 7:26 pm
by A Random Phrase
HeirofNumenor wrote: I fear that many priesthood holders will die in the violence, simply because they reached for their guns instead of the Lord.
I see this as well....
I third this.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 7:30 pm
by Ben McClintock
I think it is funny and ironic that I'm the one being made to look like the "blind sheep"
Is "listening to the spirit" and following the word of God as laid out in the scriptures really seen as contradictory? That should be a HUGE red flag.
This ridiculous insinuation that anyone saying to follow the word of the Lord is some how waiting to be commanded is bizarre in the extreme.
Why do we continue to put ourselves in these ridiculous false box "A" vs box "B" scenario's?
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 7:33 pm
by A Random Phrase
Lol. I wasn't thinking that, Ben. I promise.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 8:18 pm
by Original_Intent
Ben McClintock wrote:I think it is funny and ironic that I'm the one being made to look like the "blind sheep"
Is "listening to the spirit" and following the word of God as laid out in the scriptures really seen as contradictory? That should be a HUGE red flag.
This ridiculous insinuation that anyone saying to follow the word of the Lord is some how waiting to be commanded is bizarre in the extreme.
Why do we continue to put ourselves in these ridiculous false box "A" vs box "B" scenario's?
Or maybe you are taking offense where none is intended. I certainly don't feel that those who follow the prophet are necessarily waiting to be commanded in all things. And I also would be wary of anyone who openly disobeyed or disregarded the prophet and said ah well, they were simply being directed by the spirit. I think there is a ton of talking past each other on this issue.
I believe in following the prophet. I believe in getting confirmation EVEN IF you feel good about what the prophet says. Feeling good isn;t enough. I believe we should seek confirmation and understanding in everything. One reason being is that what you understood the prophet to say with your own understanding may not be what the prophet meant OR what the spirit meant. Again, I don;t think anyone here has any disagreement with that. I hope not anyway.
I think seeking confirmation is important especially if you feel at odds or something not right. 99 out of 100 times it is probably something that you didn;t understand and seeking this confirmation is also a teaching experience for the spirit to expand your understanding. And I think there may be the rare occasion where what the prophet says may not apply to you for WHATEVER reason. It may be the rare time when the Lord is asking Nephi to cut some guys head off. Or it may be that there is something that you need to do that can only be directly given to you. Or it may be nothing more but the Lord testing if you will go with the mainstream and not want to be a sore thumb, or if you will obey the Lord at all hazards (even ostrasization by your neighbors.) And maybe he is thereby putting a test to your neighbors as well, if they will judge righteously or not. But this I think is all very hypothetical and rare. I can say that in 50 years I have never been told that disobeying the prophet's COUNSEL is the right thing to do. But it is counsel and directed to the entire world, not to each individual. And this is where we will probably disagree, because it does seem to be that you have a very "follow the prophet no matter what" and I have more of a "trust but verify" attitude. I'm not putting you down if that;s how you feel, but it is a difference, and if you feel it puts me in danger of hellfire, that's your perogative, just as I feel there is a danger of becoming spiritually lazy to follow the other path. And I certainly differ and feel that those who say "I don't need personal revelation, if it is important for me to know, the prophet will tell me." - I feel that is a very spiritually damning attitude - not saying you have it but I know it exists as I have had people say almost verbatim.
But I do think there is a big tendency for people who may not feel as strongly the importance of personal revelation to feel that those who push its importance are somehow disregarding or dishonoring the prophet or saying that following and sustaining him is not important.
I personally don't think anyone is saying that. I think there is a danger if anyone feels that they are completely independent of the organization, and more danger still when such a person seeks to attract followers.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 23rd, 2012, 11:57 pm
by freedomforall
freedomfighter wrote:Does anyone on this forum think that any one of these church leaders are merely speaking to hear themselves talk? Is there a mandate to stand up for freedom at any cost, even bloodshed? (Watch the President Benson videos already posted) For those that want to retain their opinion, without further light and knowledge, that bloodshed won't happen and that the need for self defense weapons are not part of keeping our freedom...read the following.
From "A Glorious Standard For All Mankind" we read:
Mosiah 29:21
And Mosiah observed that “ye cannot dethrone an iniquitous king save it be through much contention, and the shedding of much blood” .
Alma 48:13
Moroni loved the system of self-government God had given His people, and he was willing to fight for it: “He was a man who was firm in the faith of Christ, and he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood” .
Certainly there are many lessons which may be drawn from those war chapters (43 through 62) in the Book of Alma, but one of the clearest ones is that liberty must not be lost. For if it is, only bloodshed will buy it back. And even if freedom is not openly under attack, eternal vigilance is still the price to keep it.
Brigham Young
We will cling to the Constitution of our country, and to the government that reveres that sacred charter of freemen’s rights; and, if necessary, pour out our best blood for the defense of every good and righteous principle…. Let us unfurl the stars and stripes—the flag of our country; let us sustain the Constitution that our fathers have bequeathed to us in letters of blood; and those who violate it will have to meet the crushing and damning penalties that will bury them in the mire of everlasting disgrace. If we sustain it, it will be sustained; otherwise it will not. (March 9, 1862, Journal of Discourses, 10:41)
J. Reuben Clark
Brethren, let us think about that, because I say unto you with all the soberness I can, that we stand in danger of losing our liberties, and that once lost, only blood will bring them back; and once lost, we of this Church will, in order to keep the Church going forward, have more sacrifices to make and more persecutions to endure than we have yet known, heavy as our sacrifices and grievous as our persecutions of the past have been. (April 1944, General Conference)
I say to you that the price of liberty is and always has been, blood, human blood, and if our liberties are lost, we shall never regain them except at the price of blood. They must not be lost! (address delivered November 21, 1952, and published November 29, 1952, Church News, 3)
Ezra Taft Benson
We must ever keep faith with our founding fathers by keeping faith with our Constitution. I trust that we all have faith in the Constitution of the United States, and that that faith is born of an assurance that this great document came into being through the inspiration of God to wise men, embodying as it does, eternal principles. This nation has a spiritual foundation which must be preserved at any cost of sweat and blood. May we recognize our debt and responsibility and be ever vigilant….
Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and worldwide mission. The war in heaven is raging on the earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle? (April 1965, General Conference)
Brigham Young, Jr.
[The] Latter-day Saints will rise up in the power and majesty of the priesthood, and they will bear off the Constitution of the United States. That was given by revelation, and we will defend it with the last drop of blood we have in our bodies and the last dollar in our pockets….(April 1901, General Conference)
...the price of liberty is and always has been blood…and if our liberties are lost, we shall never regain them except at the price of blood,” and so “they must not be lost!”
Mosiah Hancock
[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)
I suspected this would be skipped over because people do not want to hear it. One says "follow the spirit? Did these words come from church leaders not being guided by the spirit in saying what they did? Or did they just want to flap their lips?
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 1:05 am
by freedomforall
Ben McClintock wrote:freedomfighter wrote:
I suspected this would be skipped over because people do not want to hear it. One says "follow the spirit? Did these words come from church leaders not being guided by the spirit in saying what they did? Or did they just want to flap their lips?
Who skipped over them? It wasn't relevant since it doesn't go against what anyone is saying.
Perhaps it is only you that don't get it. These statements bear testimony that one needs to have the willingness to defend the Constitution even with their own blood if necessary.
People on this forum are saying "all we have to do is follow the spirit and God will do the rest". Ya, right!
freedomfighter wrote:
Are you going to claim this scripture as not relevant either?
Doctrine and Covenants 58:26
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
So, tell me, what is wrong with being prepared and willing to fight? Read this again.
Mosiah Hancock
[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 9:31 am
by SmallFarm
Just because God said "Thou shall not kill.", doesn't mean he wouldn't command Nephi to kill Laban. Just because God has told us to defend ourselves even unto bloodshed, doesn't mean he wouldn't ask us to give up our guns, if it was needed.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 10:02 am
by Benjamin_LK
SmallFarm wrote:Just because God said "Thou shall not kill.", doesn't mean he wouldn't command Nephi to kill Laban. Just because God has told us to defend ourselves even unto bloodshed, doesn't mean he wouldn't ask us to give up our guns, if it was needed.
If you look even further at the Plan of Salvation, the end goal involves becoming an exalted being, where your word is more powerful than a gun, because by your word as an exalted being, you could literally both have the power to make a person die instantly as well as make a person rise from the dead by your own will alone. You have the weapon in your hands at all times. In that sense, I do feel that while there are those of us who are armed, the Lord does test us how well we can responsibly use a micro-version of exalted power while in our mortal probation. In a way, if mortality is preparing to meet God and further advance, I would feel that God would want to know how we would be willing to use violence of any kind ranging from our fists to a gun, in a way that is in harmony with how God would use a far greater version of the same kind of power and agency. Again, my disclaimer is that this is just my speculation.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 10:12 am
by Etosha
I agree Bemjamin!
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 10:19 am
by Benjamin_LK
SmallFarm wrote:Just because God said "Thou shall not kill.", doesn't mean he wouldn't command Nephi to kill Laban. Just because God has told us to defend ourselves even unto bloodshed, doesn't mean he wouldn't ask us to give up our guns, if it was needed.
Kill, in the Old Testament meant killing someone without authorization, i.e. the death penalty, war, home defense. Interestingly enough, in Exodus, if someone is breaking into your own house, it actually does justify killing the burgular if the person is attacking in your own home.
Exodus 22:2
While the Old Testament is replaced by the New Testament, the Book of Mormon further justifies and affirms the importance of family and home, as well as national defense.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 2:51 pm
by freedomforall
Ben McClintock wrote:No one said you shouldn't defend anything. Sounds like maybe you're not "getting it"
As you wish. What I do not get is why you're the only one making an issue of all this. Weren't statements made that one only has to follow the Spirit? Weren't there inference of not fighting for freedom because it goes against God somehow? Even you posted scriptures that said something about paying attention to God commandments. So just who doesn't get what? You believe what you will and I'll believe what I will. Is that so difficult to except? Or do you have to be right...no matter what side of the issue you're on? You've been in disagreement over anything I've posted thus far. This is where the real problem lies. Must you be right about everything? This sounds like a real issue.
It reminds me of something that happened years ago. I went to several movies with a cousin, and after one particular show was over and we were walking toward the car...he said "I didn't like that movie, it was stupid." I replied "that's because you didn't understand it." He laughed.
There is a big difference between arguing and understanding.
But I'll tell you what. I'll concede. You can be right no matter what okay. As for the rest of the posters perhaps they understand where I'm coming from...unless they say differently.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 3:16 pm
by InfoWarrior82
Even New Jerusalem will have to enforce its laws somehow. Maybe by the power of persuasion? Not likely. Perhaps the reason other nations will fear us is because every citizen will be armed to the teeth. Invading armies will be repelled how? Power of persuasion? Not likely. This scenario will not happen until the millennium.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 3:37 pm
by freedomforall
InfoWarrior82 wrote:Even New Jerusalem will have to enforce its laws somehow. Maybe by the power of persuasion? Not likely. Perhaps the reason other nations will fear us is because every citizen will be armed to the teeth. Invading armies will be repelled how? Power of persuasion? Not likely. This scenario will not happen until the millennium.
This is true. I understand that Angels will surround it so outsiders will fear coming in. If they do, they will kiss the almighty wrath of God. Yipeeeee! Right now we are left to ourselves, still being tested in all things.
If Obama pursues going after our guns it could start a war...that may not be far off the way things are going.
Did you read this:
Mosiah Hancock
[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)
Is this truth, or could it be fiction?
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 3:40 pm
by marc
InfoWarrior82 wrote:Even New Jerusalem will have to enforce its laws somehow. Maybe by the power of persuasion? Not likely. Perhaps the reason other nations will fear us is because every citizen will be armed to the teeth. Invading armies will be repelled how? Power of persuasion? Not likely. This scenario will not happen until the millennium.
I used to believe this. I have come to believe, however, that those who have purified themselves and have become "Zion worthy" having put everything on the altar of obedience and thus having been endowed with powers from heaven, we will become mighty like Enoch and Moses and Nephi with the power to sink mountains or raise them from valleys. Truly Zion will be feared by Babylon, but I honestly don't believe any citizen of Zion will need worldly weapons. We will have transcended them. And as citizens of Zion, we will be self governing, having proven ourselves.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 6:36 pm
by tmac
I want to say that when our hearts and natures are changed, and we become sufficiently capable of living higher celestial laws and are able to create Zion, weapons won't be necessary. Christ will walk the streets of Zion, and fight our battles. Instead of the arm of flesh, including guns and weapons, we will rely on the power of God.
BUT we've got a long way to go to get there, and until our hearts and natures are changed, and we really learn to follow the Spirit, live Celestial Laws, and rely on God, we may need to defend ourselves, our homes, our wives and our children in the meantime. Let us not forget that it took 300+ years for Enoch and his people to build and develop Zion in the City of Enoch. It may take us awhile too. And I honestly believe that God will hold us accountable if we just roll over and fail and refuse to defend and protect our homes and families. Let us not forget the three primary divinely ordained roles of husbands and fathers (a good read on that score is a pamphlet produced by the Church some years ago, written by ETB, entitled "To Fathers in Zion"). Those fundamental roles are to provide, preside and PROTECT.
What will our wives and children do/say if we say we don't want to fulfill that role -- until Zion is built and God takes over?
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 6:51 pm
by Benjamin_LK
tmac wrote:I want to say that when our hearts and natures are changed, and we become sufficiently capable of living higher celestial laws and are able to create Zion, weapons won't be necessary. Christ will walk the streets of Zion, and fight our battles. Instead of the arm of flesh, including guns and weapons, we will rely on the power of God.
BUT we've got a long way to go to get there, and until our hearts and natures are changed, and we really learn to follow the Spirit, live Celestial Laws, and rely on God, we may need to defend ourselves, our homes, our wives and our children in the meantime. Let us not forget that it took 300+ years for Enoch and his people to build and develop Zion in the City of Enoch. It may take us awhile too. And I honestly believe that God will hold us accountable if we just roll over and fail and refuse to defend and protect our homes and families. Let us not forget the three primary divinely ordained roles of husbands and fathers (a good read on that score is a pamphlet produced by the Church some years ago, written by ETB, entitled "To Fathers in Zion"). Those fundamental roles are to provide, preside and PROTECT.
What will our wives and children do/say if we say we don't want to fulfill that role -- until Zion is built and God takes over?
All I can say is yes, let's definitely not jump the gun in thinking the days of no weapons are already there. Personally, the Lord can and will ultimately do the fighting for us, but faith and the works in the church have a long way to go. WHy are we getting into some discussion about these awful plagues when we largely aren't serving missions among citizens of mainland China or among the Arab World? We've got work to do, and the Lord can make all of those places open for missionary work, and work mighty miracles for us, if we are willing to be more obedient to his commandments. I think it's probably a mixed situation, but that's only mine, not God's that God could ask us to carry bows and arrows to defend ZIon, then he will show by miracle, that he's the one in charge, but then again, all I can say is, let's not assume too much here, let's keep focused on the task at hand, because depending on how we develop our faith, the commandments of God before the Second Coming will be a make or break deal for the members of the church.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 6:56 pm
by Benjamin_LK
InfoWarrior82 wrote:Even New Jerusalem will have to enforce its laws somehow. Maybe by the power of persuasion? Not likely. Perhaps the reason other nations will fear us is because every citizen will be armed to the teeth. Invading armies will be repelled how? Power of persuasion? Not likely. This scenario will not happen until the millennium.
I feel that Zion will be armed to a puny or primitive extent, however, Zion will be shown the genuine power of God in that day. Imagine the power God gave to Helaman's 2,000 warriors, multiplied many times over. I think we will be armed with a rag-tag army having seemingly pathetic arms to the point of riding horseback or some using bows and arrows, but God will provide the power to allow not even the world's greatest Special Forces, Predator Drones, Airstrikes, or nuclear Weapons to overcome Zion, It will be pretty clear that God is upholding Zion, because how else could an army so seemingly primitive fend off the world's most powerful and destructive weapons? Anyways, my disclaimer is just that, it's just my interpretation, from a limited perspective, the reality will be far more fantastic.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 24th, 2012, 8:26 pm
by InfoWarrior82
OR... The lost 10 tribes will bring with them ultra technology that will render all other modern day weaponry completely obsolete.
Re: If the Church called for giving up your guns would you d
Posted: December 25th, 2012, 4:22 pm
by Benjamin_LK
InfoWarrior82 wrote:OR... The lost 10 tribes will bring with them ultra technology that will render all other modern day weaponry completely obsolete.
=))
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) :ymhug: :ymapplause: :ymhug: :ymapplause: :ymhug: :ymapplause: :ymparty: :ymparty: :ymparty: