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Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 21st, 2012, 12:33 am
by JohnnyL
You will not be living the same life as now, 20 years form now. Heck, maybe even next year. Let's take a look:
1. Banks are free to use your money as they see fit.
2. FDIC will very soon no longer insure accounts!
3. Legislation is already open to require IRA's for all employees, but as your money goes in, it will be taken out and replaced with Treasury bonds (worthless).
4. Current private IRA's will likely follow suit.
5. The Federal Reserve contract supplying money to the USA ends next year; I'm expecting the renegotiation will be a killer.
6. The US dollar is losing value, and will continue to lose value. As mentioned before, it is losing its place as the unit of international monetary exchange. China, Russia, and others (even our allies) will no longer use it to buy oil from each other, etc.
7. Unemployment will likely go up by 4% in the next quarter or half.

Is that pretty valid, based on what's been posted here and otherwise? Is there more to add?

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 21st, 2012, 9:34 am
by Fairminded
Time to stock up on toilet paper for when the @#$% hits the fan?

I agree though, I have about as much faith in the dollar as I do in Santa: both myths I learned the truth about years ago. Soon we'll all be pulling a Homer and pulling useless money out of our wallets to toss off the side of the boat.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 21st, 2012, 10:43 am
by sbsion
what are you talking about, none of that is money, just computer entries?

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 21st, 2012, 11:22 am
by Col. Flagg
Fairminded wrote:Time to stock up on toilet paper for when the @#$% hits the fan?

I agree though, I have about as much faith in the dollar as I do in Santa: both myths I learned the truth about years ago. Soon we'll all be pulling a Homer and pulling useless money out of our wallets to toss off the side of the boat.
If the dollar wasn't the world's reserve currency still, we'd already be seeing severe price inflation and $7-$8/gallon gas at the pump, but sadly, the dollar's reserve currency status days are ending... and quickly. And, fwiw, I think one of the most valuable and sought after commodities when the poop hits the fan will be toilet paper - might be a good idea to stock up on it now while you still can.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 21st, 2012, 8:30 pm
by JohnnyL
Dang Col. Flagg,
I was thinking you'd have more input on the list! I know you have more and could crank it up, and correct what there is now... :D

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:31 pm
by AGStacker
I happen to agree with Joel Skousen that they'll keep the economy going long enough until Russia and China attack. I thought hyperinflation was a certainty but Joel has me convinced otherwise. (Legion would feel so vindicated reading this) I still maintain that Ron Paul is a God-fearing, patriotic man but maybe is looking at the hyperinflation scenario incorrectly. Not everyone is correct all of the time but Joel's assessment that 1) with possibly 200 trillion dollars floating around out there, we could print 20 trillion a year with minimal inflation and 2) what could possibly serve to replace the dollar.

Joel has actually subdued some of mine anxieties for a small moment and because of this I think I am better able to focus my energies toward the Heavenly Gift.

I also maintain that silver and gold will continue to rise. We don't need money printing for increased prices. Just compare the gold price to the debt ceiling hikes.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:39 pm
by Etosha
But a large earthquake could change their plans and the economy would crash sooner and while vulnerble - the attack would come.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:47 pm
by Jason
AGStacker wrote:I happen to agree with Joel Skousen that they'll keep the economy going long enough until Russia and China attack. I thought hyperinflation was a certainty but Joel has me convinced otherwise. (Legion would feel so vindicated reading this) I still maintain that Ron Paul is a God-fearing, patriotic man but maybe is looking at the hyperinflation scenario incorrectly. Not everyone is correct all of the time but Joel's assessment that 1) with possibly 200 trillion dollars floating around out there, we could print 20 trillion a year with minimal inflation and 2) what could possibly serve to replace the dollar.

Joel has actually subdued some of mine anxieties for a small moment and because of this I think I am better able to focus my energies toward the Heavenly Gift.

I also maintain that silver and gold will continue to rise. We don't need money printing for increased prices. Just compare the gold price to the debt ceiling hikes.
...not really because you still don't understand how and why....nor does Joel it appears.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:48 pm
by Etosha
Legion - explain

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:51 pm
by Jason
JohnnyL wrote:You will not be living the same life as now, 20 years form now. Heck, maybe even next year. Let's take a look:
1. Banks are free to use your money as they see fit.
2. FDIC will very soon no longer insure accounts!
3. Legislation is already open to require IRA's for all employees, but as your money goes in, it will be taken out and replaced with Treasury bonds (worthless).
4. Current private IRA's will likely follow suit.
5. The Federal Reserve contract supplying money to the USA ends next year; I'm expecting the renegotiation will be a killer.
6. The US dollar is losing value, and will continue to lose value. As mentioned before, it is losing its place as the unit of international monetary exchange. China, Russia, and others (even our allies) will no longer use it to buy oil from each other, etc.
7. Unemployment will likely go up by 4% in the next quarter or half.

Is that pretty valid, based on what's been posted here and otherwise? Is there more to add?
#6 is bogus. A whole lot of global debt denominated in dollars....that therefore must be paid back in dollars. Thus the scramble by the European central bank as well as the Federal Reserve to provide dollar liquidity to the European nations....albeit unsuccessfully to date (because it still involves a loan with interest).

The key problem is not enough dollars in circulation. That's what kicked off the troubles in 2008 and it continues to be a severe problem with drastic economic consequences (like falling demand which leads to #7).

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 6:53 pm
by Jason
Etosha wrote:Legion - explain
see note above....of course holler if you need more and I'll try to put together a concise discourse (or diatribe depending upon viewpoint) on it.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 7:18 pm
by AGStacker
How or why what Legion? You are going to need to be more specific.

I disagree with you on many things but am man enough to realize and admit when I may be wrong. It is a fact that money will need to be printed and that is always inflationary but something as grand as hyperinflation needs a small monetary base to begin with and we know the Federal Reserve note does not qualify.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 8:26 pm
by Seek the Truth
Legion wrote: #6 is bogus. A whole lot of global debt denominated in dollars....that therefore must be paid back in dollars. Thus the scramble by the European central bank as well as the Federal Reserve to provide dollar liquidity to the European nations....albeit unsuccessfully to date (because it still involves a loan with interest).

The key problem is not enough dollars in circulation. That's what kicked off the troubles in 2008 and it continues to be a severe problem with drastic economic consequences (like falling demand which leads to #7).
How would "dollars in circulation" offset massive mortgage defaults?

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 8:37 pm
by Jason
AGStacker wrote:How or why what Legion? You are going to need to be more specific.

I disagree with you on many things but am man enough to realize and admit when I may be wrong. It is a fact that money will need to be printed and that is always inflationary but something as grand as hyperinflation needs a small monetary base to begin with and we know the Federal Reserve note does not qualify.
Yes money needs to be printed or created. We have debt to service....with interest.

There isn't enough money in circulation to satisfy the debt and interest obligation. Therefore the money that is in circulation will be in demand. Likely higher demand leading to higher value with the possible exception of food & energy (which also have their own built in demand needs...as well as speculation and monopoly factors).

The real risk has been and continues to be deflation. i.e. not enough money to go around which leads to collapse in demand, loss of jobs, recession, etc.

Until the money created by debt equation goes away! i.e. free money with no debt strings attached rains down from helicopters.

The Federal Reserve controls the amount of money in circulation to a large degree by setting the interest rate (cost of debt) as well as a few other measures. They can't force people to take on more debt but they can make it cheap and easy. They can also make it costly and difficult should they decide to.

The Federal Reserve is a front for private banks. They control the printing press....not "we"....and not "the government". We....as in we the people....have nearly zero control over it. Our control is limited to Congress and the law (Constitution). That said, we created the Federal Reserve via our representatives in Congress. We can also destroy the Federal Reserve via our representatives in Congress. Until that time arrives....or we destroy what's left of the Constitution via measures like what Ron Paul has suggested....that turn the money creation mechanism completely over to private banking (which once the Constitution is "legalized" will likely be impossible to get back....nearly so now without those measures)....and ultimately those who control private banking in this world (very small group of folks).

The International Banking Cartel (I)
http://www.presstv.ir/Program/272398.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The International Banking Cartel (II)
http://www.presstv.ir/Program/273928.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: November 26th, 2012, 9:04 pm
by Jason
Seek the Truth wrote:
Legion wrote: #6 is bogus. A whole lot of global debt denominated in dollars....that therefore must be paid back in dollars. Thus the scramble by the European central bank as well as the Federal Reserve to provide dollar liquidity to the European nations....albeit unsuccessfully to date (because it still involves a loan with interest).

The key problem is not enough dollars in circulation. That's what kicked off the troubles in 2008 and it continues to be a severe problem with drastic economic consequences (like falling demand which leads to #7).
How would "dollars in circulation" offset massive mortgage defaults?
It doesn't.

The massive amounts of mortgages created during the last debt boom (2001-2007) created massive amounts of money. That money is already in circulation. Problem is that it needs to be paid back because of debt. When the money is repaid....the money is destroyed (taken out of circulation - the banks asset and the people's liability goes away to computer digital heaven).

Mortgage defaults simply mean the debt won't be paid back....because they can't....because there isn't enough money to go around. It means that money isn't paid back and destroyed (deflation is not a factor because we stay flat).

The mortgage defaults lower house prices. Which means that new suckers who take on new debt....take on less debt and create less new money.

Whether or not the money creation/destruction is tied to a specific asset is neither deflationary or inflationary.

You can print money out of thin air with a credit card....typically unsecured or in other words not collateralized by an asset (just your credit score and good name - i.e. thin air).

When you create the money (incur the debt) there is inflation (more money). When you pay the money back there is deflation (empty pockets).

If you default after spending the money (inflation has already occurred or the money has already been injected into the economy)....then you stay at equilibrium (i.e. no deflation or money supply stays constant). Your pockets are empty and someone else ended up with the money so they can service their debt.

If you pour water into a pool (incur debt) the level of the pool rises (amount of money in circulation). If you take water out of the pool (pay off debt) then the level of the pool declines (amount of money in the system declines).

After you have poured water in the pool (incurred debt) and raised the pool to a certain level (increased the money supply)......but default and don't take water out of the pool (no debt payment).....the level of the pool will remain where it is (equilibrium).

So the macro measurement of the amount of money in the system is based on the same principle. How much debt (new money or more water) is going into the pool versus how much money is going out (to service debt). What is the default rate? How much debt is being paid back? Are debt levels rising or falling? Looking at total debt in the US....where are we today versus 2008 or 2007? Globally? How many dollars were in the Global system in 2007 versus today? Why do we have a crisis and what is the basis of the crisis? How can we find and track that data? Where is it most evident?

The asset issue has no bearing on monetary inflation/deflation....EXCEPT that most debt is collateralized based on the market value of assets. So it impacts the ability to leverage/borrow or in other words is a facilitator in creating new debt. But it doesn't have any bearing on inflation/deflation on its own merit. Assets don't increase or decrease the amount of money in the system.

One of the consequences of Greenspan's initiatives (lowering the cost of debt to a multiple decade low) was the inflating of asset values (due to low cost of debt) which also allowed greater leverage (more debt) thus pumping additional money into the system. Or in other words a self reinforcing upward spiral that most now call a bubble. We had the high inflation period from 2001-2007 that was most notable in the housing market. The fuel ran out though and we've been in a deflationary period since struggling to pay back the debt that was borrowed and losing our homes in the process.

Can they force you to borrow dollars? Can they force you to pay back dollars? Each likely has a personal interpretation as to the level of control they have. I would say they have strong influence but not complete control....yet. The Federal Reserve has 3 tools (open market operations, reserve requirement, and the discount rate) to influence global markets. The reserve requirement was mainly negated in 2004 by removing requirements for banks with over $7 million in deposits although they have (as of 2008) paid interest on excess banking reserves (another point of influence). That leaves the discount rate to the banks and open market operations (main tool of choice since 2008) although the payment of interest on excess banking reserves increased reserve balances almost one thousand fold from $1.84 billion to $1.46 trillion from 2008 to 2012. Sure they put the guns to Congress to force government borrowing to shore up the banking system in 2008....but Congress pulled the trigger and has the ultimate authority.

Now lets examine the weakness of the system (and their advantage point). The system never creates money for interest thus transferring ownership of all assets over time to the banks. Actually to the bank of banks. Also the system requires greater and greater levels of debt (new money) in order for the old money to walk away whole (i.e. Ponzi scheme). You sign on the dotted line for a $100k loan but must pay back $150k. Your only salvation is time and a continual stream of new borrowers.

Now for the hick-up. That is the debt saturation point. The point at which incomes cannot support further debt increases. The point at which population growth is stagnant (we don't have greater and greater numbers of new borrowers). Globally the point at which we have no new borrowers (even down to the smallest third world countries - last area of growth this year as noted in news link in previous post).

The debt saturation point can be shifted up or down by decreasing or increasing interest rates (cost of debt). That trigger has been pulled. The Federal reserve used to publish a rough estimate that for every 0.10% decrease in long-term interest rates, economic activity increases by $10 billion. Why did economic activity increase? Because the cost of debt decreased and people borrowed new money into the system thus increasing economic activity. Unfortunately that came to an end in 2008 as shown below by one of my favorite economic bloggers.

Is This Debt-Saturation Chart The Scariest Chart Of All Time?
http://articles.businessinsider.com/201 ... oductivity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ntury.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So what does this mean? New debt can't spur economic activity because its quickly destroyed in servicing old debt.

What it means is that the game is coming to an end. They either have to let the debtors off the hook with ownership of their assets via forgiveness of debt or FREE money from helicopters (one and the same)....OR....they take complete blatant ownership of everything. Why? Because there aren't enough new dollars being created to service the debt of old dollars. Deflationary default.

There is a shortage of dollars and thus a crisis that began in 2008 (actually started in 2007 but went afterburner in 2008 nearly collapsing the financial system at a couple points due to global bank runs by major players) and continues today as a result of massive increases in debt that ultimately cannot be paid back and we've hit the debt saturation point on a global macro scale. That's the reality.

This won't happen in a day. It can play out over a decade or two. Why? Well they still have influence over money supply via their tools mentioned above. Through their vast influence they have stimulated government to pick up the borrowing over the past couple of years as the private market declines. They have also taken emergency measures such as zero interest loans to the banks at the discount window as well as bumping the "insurance" for deposit accounts and paying interest on excess bank reserves. Basically when the world realized it was running out of dollars to pay debt in 2008 they stifled the ensuing bank runs that occurred. They squelched the fears of a rapid deflationary spiral. They propagated the theory that inflation or better yet hyper inflation was the enemy such that people should continue to borrow (create new money to service debts). The rough average interest rate on 30 year mortgage has gone from 6.5% in 2008 to 3.5% currently. People have been able to refinance (rollover old debt at lower debt costs). Also the government has increased borrowing picking up a lot of the slack (which also shifts more power and control to government as they have the dollars).

In other words they have slowed the deflationary tide and are controlling the rate of descent. Buying themselves time as needed. Each of us plays a part in this on a daily basis and is exemplified by our attitudes towards debt and money. Our attitudes are usually a result of the propaganda soup we swim in.

But what about price inflation? Well that is also a tool as noted in the articles above. Not only does it perpetuate the monetary inflation myth but it further shifts dollars to those in power. How is it done? Well that's a long history I won't dive into here but you can start by examining the role of the US military and the alphabet soup in supporting global economic interests. For example the role of the CIA in Operation AJAX in support of British Petroleum's oil interests in Iran. A little saber rattling from time to time is all that is required to keep the speculation game alive and energy prices up. Having a trillion dollar trading club that sets commodity prices in the speculation game (market control) also helps. Wall Street is the play ground of the big banks and their private owners. Its completely controlled. How else do you explain the backing out of trades that have gone wrong as the result of high frequency computer algorithm errors??? Its their game and they make the rules....a near monopoly if you will.

In order to have monetary inflation you must print or create more money than what is being destroyed. Are debt levels rising? Its easy to control the rate of descent with a little injection here and a little injection there. Lower interest rates or the cost of debt as needed (until you hit zero - i.e. Japan). We've been in the midst of the economic endgame since mid-90's when Greenspan created the SWEAPS program that swept demand deposits (i.e. checking account money) into savings accounts so it could be loaned out as well as starting the interest rate descent in 2001. It could drag on for another decade or more. Just like Japan. Ultimately the endgame will depend on timing of natural results as well as divine interventions and judgments (like Fukushima).
Federal Reserve policy is the most important determinant of the money supply. The Federal Reserve affects the money supply by affecting its most important component, bank deposits.

Here is how it works. The Federal Reserve requires depository institutions (commercial banks and other financial institutions) to hold as reserves a fraction of specified deposit liabilities. Depository institutions hold these reserves as cash in their vaults or Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs) and as deposits at Federal Reserve banks. In turn, the Federal Reserve controls reserves by lending money to depository institutions and changing the Federal Reserve discount rate on these loans and by open-market operations. The Federal Reserve uses open-market operations to either increase or decrease reserves. To increase reserves, the Federal Reserve buys U.S. Treasury securities by writing a check drawn on itself. The seller of the treasury security deposits the check in a bank, increasing the seller’s deposit. The bank, in turn, deposits the Federal Reserve check at its district Federal Reserve bank, thus increasing its reserves. The opposite sequence occurs when the Federal Reserve sells treasury securities: the purchaser’s deposits fall, and, in turn, the bank’s reserves fall.

If the Federal Reserve increases reserves, a single bank can make loans up to the amount of its excess reserves, creating an equal amount of deposits. The banking system, however, can create a multiple expansion of deposits. As each bank lends and creates a deposit, it loses reserves to other banks, which use them to increase their loans and thus create new deposits, until all excess reserves are used up.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/MoneySupply.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 12:05 pm
by Jason
AGStacker wrote:I happen to agree with Joel Skousen that they'll keep the economy going long enough until Russia and China attack. I thought hyperinflation was a certainty but Joel has me convinced otherwise. (Legion would feel so vindicated reading this) I still maintain that Ron Paul is a God-fearing, patriotic man but maybe is looking at the hyperinflation scenario incorrectly. Not everyone is correct all of the time but Joel's assessment that 1) with possibly 200 trillion dollars floating around out there, we could print 20 trillion a year with minimal inflation and 2) what could possibly serve to replace the dollar.

Joel has actually subdued some of mine anxieties for a small moment and because of this I think I am better able to focus my energies toward the Heavenly Gift.

I also maintain that silver and gold will continue to rise. We don't need money printing for increased prices. Just compare the gold price to the debt ceiling hikes.
How's that workin' out for ya?

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 12:10 pm
by AGStacker
Legion wrote:
AGStacker wrote:I happen to agree with Joel Skousen that they'll keep the economy going long enough until Russia and China attack. I thought hyperinflation was a certainty but Joel has me convinced otherwise. (Legion would feel so vindicated reading this) I still maintain that Ron Paul is a God-fearing, patriotic man but maybe is looking at the hyperinflation scenario incorrectly. Not everyone is correct all of the time but Joel's assessment that 1) with possibly 200 trillion dollars floating around out there, we could print 20 trillion a year with minimal inflation and 2) what could possibly serve to replace the dollar.

Joel has actually subdued some of mine anxieties for a small moment and because of this I think I am better able to focus my energies toward the Heavenly Gift.

I also maintain that silver and gold will continue to rise. We don't need money printing for increased prices. Just compare the gold price to the debt ceiling hikes.
How's that workin' out for ya?
Debt ceiling has been on hold for some time now. Watch what happens when they raise it. Also, you are taking me out of context. Gold and silver have continued to rise since about 2000 and I maintain that this correction wont last forever. How do you reconcile the massive demand, "sold out"s, 7 years needed to get Germany 300 tons of gold from supposedly the largest gold holder in the world and the disconnect between the paper and physical price?

Just take a good look at a gold/silver chart compared to the debt ceiling over the last 10+ years and you'll know what I'm talking about.

What does Legion invest in?

Also, how are the people of Cyprus doing with their deposits in their bank accounts?

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 12:42 pm
by Jason
AGStacker wrote:
Legion wrote:
AGStacker wrote:I happen to agree with Joel Skousen that they'll keep the economy going long enough until Russia and China attack. I thought hyperinflation was a certainty but Joel has me convinced otherwise. (Legion would feel so vindicated reading this) I still maintain that Ron Paul is a God-fearing, patriotic man but maybe is looking at the hyperinflation scenario incorrectly. Not everyone is correct all of the time but Joel's assessment that 1) with possibly 200 trillion dollars floating around out there, we could print 20 trillion a year with minimal inflation and 2) what could possibly serve to replace the dollar.

Joel has actually subdued some of mine anxieties for a small moment and because of this I think I am better able to focus my energies toward the Heavenly Gift.

I also maintain that silver and gold will continue to rise. We don't need money printing for increased prices. Just compare the gold price to the debt ceiling hikes.
How's that workin' out for ya?
Debt ceiling has been on hold for some time now. Watch what happens when they raise it. Also, you are taking me out of context. Gold and silver have continued to rise since about 2000 and I maintain that this correction wont last forever. How do you reconcile the massive demand, "sold out"s, 7 years needed to get Germany 300 tons of gold from supposedly the largest gold holder in the world and the disconnect between the paper and physical price?

Gold & silver bug hype - i.e. folks spreading propaganda because they are "selling" - i.e. Midas Resources aka Alex Jones and Ron Paul promoter

Just take a good look at a gold/silver chart compared to the debt ceiling over the last 10+ years and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Do you have a correlation coefficient for that? Have you done regression analysis? Love to see your work on that hypothesis...

What does Legion invest in?

land, gardens/crops/seeds and tools...and my advice/recommendations are likely worth what you paid for them

Also, how are the people of Cyprus doing with their deposits in their bank accounts?
Accusations the island was a conduit for illicit cash had overshadowed Cyprus's attempts to secure financial aid, partly to prop up an outsized banking sector burnt by losses on loans to crisis-hit Greece. The International Monetary Fund, the European Commission and the European Central Bank, known as the 'troika' of lenders, agreed to extend a 10 billion euro ($13 billion) lifeline to Cyprus in March.

Moneyval, a Council of Europe anti-money laundering (AML) committee, had "significantly revised" its previously more favourable assessment on Cyprus's compliance with AML regulations, according to the report. Moneyval's last assessment of Cyprus was in late 2011.

Unlike previous assessments, which reviewed regulations in place to curb illicit activity, the new audit covered banking in practice. It included a sample of 390 bank clients, including the top 180 depositors and 90 borrowers with more than 2 billion euros in deposits. The Cypriot central bank said in April that Moneyval had visited the island from March 19 to 31.

Business profiles of customers, fundamental to any measures to curb potentially illicit activity, were "generally not properly established" by Cypriot banks, the report said. Some 70 percent of the most complex ownership structures had nominee shareholders, and, on average, three layers between the customer and the ultimate or "beneficial" owners.

Thousands of non-Cypriot companies are registered in Cyprus, taking advantage of its low tax rate and network of treaties with more than four dozen countries to avoid double taxation. Even though banks are expected to know who beneficial owners are, awareness of clients with higher-risk profiles was not robust, the report said, and many had not been detected or flagged by the banks.

Both auditors said banks failed to report a significant number of suspicious transactions to authorities. Deloitte's forensic analysis of customers' transactions revealed 29 potentially suspicious transactions in the past 12 months, none of which were identified by banks as requiring scrutiny or reporting to authorities, it said.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... -ministers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cyprus has shut down its second largest bank and is restructuring its biggest bank, as part of the conditions for a €10 billion bailout. Last night the IMF approved €1 billion for three years as its part of the deal. The approval allows for the immediate disbursement of around €86 million.
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/massi ... y/20130516" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Reuters) - When the Cyprus bank run began earlier this year, Russians set much of the pace. Documents seen by Reuters show that as the Mediterranean island headed towards financial meltdown in March, most notable among companies transferring money from the country's two main banks were Russians and East Europeans.

At least 3.6 billion euros ($4.67 billion) was removed in two weeks by big depositors, according to the documents. Though many companies listed initially appear obscure, a Reuters analysis shows a significant proportion are vehicles for foreign investors more at home in Moscow or Kiev than Nicosia.

The lists give an insight into the March crisis and how the tax haven, with a population of just 1.1 million, had amassed bank deposits that peaked at 72 billion euros - more than four times the island's GDP.

Reuters analyzed 129 companies that each transferred 5 million euros or more over the two-week period, collectively accounting for 1.9 billion euros. Of those companies, 95 could be traced.

Out of that group, 34 have links to Russia, five have links to Ukraine and two to Kazakhstan. The remainder comprise companies from Cyprus and other countries including tax havens such as the Cayman Islands, the British Virgin Islands and the Dutch Antilles. By value, more than half the transactions were made in dollars.

"This list verifies as well-founded Cyprus' reputation as an offshore economy used as a conduit for people, particularly Russians, to hold large sums of money, often to avoid paying tax and without too much scrutiny," said Michael McIntyre, professor of law and a tax expert at Wayne State University in the United States.

While the transfers appear mostly related to moving money out of Cyprus, Reuters could not establish where the funds went. It is possible some transfers were between banks within Cyprus.

Deposits that did flow out of the country had to be funded by emergency liquidity assistance from the European Central Bank, according to analysts. In effect, the ECB was paying for depositors, many of them Russian, to remove money from Cyprus before those depositors could be compelled to contribute to the international rescue of the island.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/ ... BN20130516" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 12:53 pm
by AGStacker
Haha! It is a FACT that we are taking 7 years to get Germany 300 tons of gold.

Image

Sorry the picture is so small but you're smart enough to get the idea.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 1:44 pm
by Jason
AGStacker wrote:Haha! It is a FACT that we are taking 7 years to get Germany 300 tons of gold.

Image

Sorry the picture is so small but you're smart enough to get the idea.
That chart is your work???

I understand that the author of that chart was predicting -
GOLD to be UP over 200% in next 4 YEARS... (US DEBT ALSO DOUBLES)
$2000 GOLD by 2013
$2500 GOLD by 2014
$3000 GOLD by 2015
$3600 GOLD by 2016 and almost 30 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT...
https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=88630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bloomberg’s Chart of the day (hat tip: Zero Hedge) ostensibly shows a relationship between the US debt ceiling extensions and price of Gold.

Color me unconvinced.

It has a few specific problems. First is the timing: The chart is dated August 1, 2011. Since then, the US credit rating was downgraded, and Gold took a big swan dive. Up 33% YTD at the time of that chart, it finished the year up 10% — certainly respectable, but no where near the home run it was as of August.

The second issue with this chart is that we only see a small slice of history. The correlation may or may not be spurious. We don’t see what took place prior — the pre 1997 era. Prior to this period, there was little correlation between the two. That sort of selective use of a time segment leads to questionable conclusions based upon that one time frame.

I bring this up today because last week, President Obama formally requested the raising of the debt ceiling (again). This is a different debt ceiling structure than the August debacle. Congress now has 15 days from that date to pass a resolution disapproving of this request before the limit is lifted.

David Semmens of Standard Chartered Bank gives us the details why that is unlikely to occur:

“It is important to note that a bill would have to be passed to stop the raising of the debt ceiling this time around – a far more straight forward mechanism that was built into the Budget Control Act of 2011 to ensure a relatively trouble free procedure.

The first hurdle will come in the House of Representatives which returns today (Tuesday 17th Jan) and is expected to vote on Wednesday (18th Jan), with the Republican controlled legislative branch expected to pass a bill of objection which will be sent to the Senate. The Democratic majority Senate resumes after finishing its holiday break next Monday (23rd Jan) and is expected to reject any move to block the extension, shortly after that. While we would expect that there will be some political posturing surrounding the vote with the House Republicans passing a bill to reject the extension, this would almost certainly be blocked in the Democrat controlled Senate and failing that receive a presidential veto. If the second reading of the bill were to follow a presidential veto, a two thirds majority would be required in both houses to override the presidential veto. A $1.2trn extension will see the debt ceiling raised to 16.394trn and given current projections see the US through until early 2013 before this issue is revisited.

There are plenty of good reasons to own Gold. I remain unconvinced that the debt ceiling is one of them . . .
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/01/go ... t-ceiling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course the bandwagon is still playing the song...
Gold expert Nick Barisheff says the plunge in the gold price is sparking demand.....Nick Barisheff, President and CEO of Bullion Management Group, and author of the new book “$10,000 Gold.”
http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/2013/0 ... 19526.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 2:35 pm
by AGStacker
I never said I had any "work". So what are you going to say if gold hits $2,000 plus between now and 2015?

Good job with that copy and paste.

Debt ceiling and gold price are directly correlated.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: May 17th, 2013, 3:16 pm
by Jason
AGStacker wrote:I never said I had any "work". So what are you going to say if gold hits $2,000 plus between now and 2015?

Good job with that copy and paste.

Debt ceiling and gold price are directly correlated.
I asked for your work on it and that was what you responded with....hence the question.

What would I say if it hits $1000...or $800....or $500....what's the point? I wouldn't be surprised if it hit $2000 at some point between now and 2015. I wouldn't be surprised if it hits $1000 at some point between now and 2015.

The point is that it is gamed...so it will hit whatever they (the ones who set the gold prices) want it to hit. In the meantime there are plenty of pundits "selling" and claiming gold is going to the moon and back....for a whole variety of unsupported reasons including debt ceilings using charts that only encapsulate the "correlated" period and ignoring the vast "uncorrelated" period. So far they haven't been that accurate in their predictions....
The control over Federal Reserve System decisions is also founded in another unique situation. Each day, representatives of four other London banking firms meet in the offices of N.M. Rothschild Company in London to fix the price of gold for that day. The other four bankers are from Samuel Montagu Company, which ranks Number 5 on the list of seventeen London merchant banking firms, Sharps Pixley, Johnson Matheson, and Mocatta and Goldsmid.

Despite the huge tide of paper pyramided currency and notes which are now flooding the world, at some point, every credit extension must return to be based, in however minuscule a fashion, on some deposit of gold in some bank somewhere in the world. Because of this factor, the London merchant bankers, with their power to set the price of gold each day, become the final arbiters of the volume of money and the price of money in those countries which must bow to their power. Not the least of these is the United States. No official of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, or of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, can command the power over the money of the world which is held by these London merchant bankers. Great Britain, while waning in political and military power, today exercises the greatest financial power. It is for this reason that London is the present financial center of the world.
http://iamthewitness.com/books/Eustace% ... eserve.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The London gold fixing or gold fix is the procedure by which the price of gold is determined twice each business day on the London market by the five members of The London Gold Market Fixing Ltd, on the premises of N M Rothschild & Sons. It is designed to fix a price for settling contracts between members of the London bullion market, but informally the gold fixing provides a recognized rate that is used as a benchmark for pricing the majority of gold products and derivatives throughout the world's markets. The gold fix is conducted in United States dollars (US$), Pound sterling (GBP), and the euro (€) daily at 10.30am and 3pm, London time, via a dedicated telephone conference facility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_fixing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the 12th September 1919 at 11.00am the first Gold Fixing took place.

The original five founding members were: N M Rothschild & Sons; Mocatta & Goldsmid; Samuel Montagu & Co.; Pixley & Abell; and Sharps & Wilkins.

For over 80 years we have been fixing the price of gold providing market users with the opportunity to buy and sell gold at a single quoted price. It also provides a published benchmark price that is widely used as a pricing medium by producers, consumers, investors and central banks.

The fix is carried out twice a day by the 5 members via a dedicated conference call facility.
http://www.goldfixing.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gold Fixings
http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm? ... ld_fixings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The first Silver Fixing took place in 1897 at the office of Sharps & Wilkins.

For over 110 years we have been fixing the price of silver providing market users with the opportunity to buy and sell silver at a single quoted price. It also provides a published benchmark price that is widely used as a pricing medium by producers, consumers and investors.

The fix is carried out once a day at 12 noon by the 3 members via telephone conference.
http://www.silverfixing.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Silver Fixings
http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm? ... er_fixings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The London bullion market is a wholesale over-the-counter market for the trading of gold and silver. Trading is conducted amongst members of the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA), loosely overseen by the Bank of England. Most of the members are major international banks or bullion dealers and refiners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_bullion_market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exclusive: The Bank Of England Engaged In Flagrant Gold Manipulation In The Interwar Period Via The New York Fed; Does History Repeat Itself?
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/exclus ... -fed-does-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Gold Standard and the Great Depression
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.t ... ngreen.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The International Banking Cartel (I)
http://www.presstv.ir/Program/272398.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The International Banking Cartel (II)
http://www.presstv.ir/Program/273928.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But while wars and revolutions have been useful to international bankers in gaining or increasing control over governments, the key to such control has always been control of money. You can control a government if you have it in your debt; a creditor is in a position to demand the privileges of monopoly from the sovereign. Money-seeking governments have granted monopolies in state banking, natural resources, oil concessions and transportation. However, the monopoly which the international financiers most covet is control over a nation's money.

Eventually these international bankers actually owned as private corporations the central banks of the various European nations. The Bank of England, Bank of France and Bank of Germany were not owned by their respective governments, as almost everyone imagines, but were privately owned monopolies granted by the heads of state, usually in return for loans. Under this system, observed Reginald McKenna, President of the Midlands Bank of England: "Those that create and issue the money and credit direct the policies of government and hold in their hands the destiny of the people." Once the government is in debt to the bankers it is at their mercy. A frightening example was cited by the London Financial Times of September 26, 1921, which revealed that even at that time:

"Half a dozen men at the top of the Big Five Banks could upset the whole fabric of government finance by refraining from renewing Treasury Bills."
http://www.ldsfreedomnetwork.com/none-d ... piracy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank…sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.
- Carroll Quigley
Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.
- Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild
History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance.
- James Madison, Father of the Constitution
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
- Thomas Jefferson
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
- Thomas Jefferson

"The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah." Ezra Taft Benson, "Prepare Ye," Ensign, Jan 1974, 69.
Were I to ask the question, how much wheat or anything else a man must have to justify him in letting it go to waste, it would be hard to answer; figures are inadequate to give the amount. Never let anything go to waste. Be prudent, save everything, and what you get more than you can take care of yourselves, ask your neighbors to help you. There are scores and hundreds of men in this house, if the question were asked them if they considered their grain a burden and a drudge to them, when they had plenty last year and the year before, that would answer in the affirmative, and were ready to part with it for next to nothing. How do they feel now, when their granaries are empty? If they had a few thousand bushels to spare now, would they not consider it a blessing? They would. Why? Because it would bring the gold and silver. But pause for a moment, and suppose you had millions of bushels to sell, and could sell it for twenty dollars per bushel, or for a million dollars per bushel, no matter what amount, so that you sell all your wheat, and transport it out of the country, and you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat. The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life. The children of men love it, they lust after it, are greedy for it, and are ready to destroy themselves, and those around them, over whom they have any influence, to gain it.
- Journal of Discourses, 1:, p.250.
The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat.
- President Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, p.298.
‘There is more salvation and security in wheat, than in all the political schemes of the world...’
- Ezra Taft Benson quoting Brigham Young - JD 2:207.
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/james/5?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-pet/1?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All hands shall be feeble, and all knees shall be weak as water.

They shall also gird themselves with sackcloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads.

They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling block of their iniquity.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ezek/7?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ps/115?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: October 27th, 2013, 7:42 pm
by Jason
Approaching 2014...and gold is hovering between $1300 & $1350....from $1700 at the beginning of year. Reckon the year isn't over yet...but my bet is we continue to see pm commodities flat or in decline into 2014. Also bet PMs exit 2014 lower than where they enter at the beginning of the year...

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: October 28th, 2013, 12:35 pm
by Hogmeister
Legion - What do you think of US and international banks placing trillions in excess deposits (in USD) at the FED instead of greasing the credit wheels of the economy?

The current deflationary phase with salaries taking a nose dive and unemployment and welfare programs exploding while printing dollars like its going out of style is all calculated to destroy the real economy and fool/subdue the world while doing it and it is all planned. Banks have literally trillions stashed at the FED that could be multiplied into the economy generating business as we speak. The Norwegian bank I work for (senior auditor) even have billions (USD) at the FED which is unprecedented. But this machination (using the words of a prophet) will utimately lead to the intended (or unintended) loss of confidence in the US real economy and as a result the USD. An economy that cannot produce real goods will not have a strong currency no matter which way you twist your arguments. True the US can play the game longer given its historic reserve currency status but the end will be all the more catastropic because of it and is written in scripture. A USD or any currency without public confidence or the confidence of its trading partners (Yes the US has never been more dependent on its trading partners) will become worthless almost over night. It's all in the vision of GAS, in Isaiah chapter 47, Charles D Evans dream/vision etc. This nefarious scheme that will hurt the rest of the world will backfire and will justify the rest of the world (in their own eyes), and the Lords right arm, in attacking and dividing up the US for spoils.

Re: Money in 2013--Valid list?

Posted: October 28th, 2013, 1:04 pm
by Hogmeister
47:8

Now therefore hear this, O pampered lady,
securely enthroned, thinking to herself,
I exist, and other than me there is nothing;
I shall not be widowed or bereaved of children:

Babylon, securely enthroned, thinking to herself, “I exist and other than me there is nothing”. Here we have Babylon or this whole system or those who belong to it or this entity assuming Godlike attributes. Because God exists and other than God there is nothing, Isaiah has said so a number of times. Other than God, there is nothing. Without God, we are nothing. Here, she is arrogating to herself those kinds of powers. So at this point, in the progression of things, she is assuming divine status, just like the King of Babylon tries to assume divine status, and have the whole world worship him. So she is becoming that way and that is an anti-God stance, which when it comes to that point, God makes an end of her. When she becomes anti-God. When she becomes anti-God, she becomes anti-His people. People become anti-Christs. Very much like Hitler during the Second World War. He focused on the Jewish people to make an end of them. That is an anti-Christ or anti-God stance and when he does that, he will come to an end. The Lord will make an end of him. She says, “I exist and other than me there is nothing, I shall not be widowed or bereaved of children.” She has plenty of people to support her system, as we saw in chapter twenty-three. Tyre has plenty of colonies; her merchandising centers or ports are all over the world and those are like her children, her offspring. She’s only becoming more entrenched, she thinks, in power, and in authority all over the world. Nothing is going to change that.

47:9

Bereavement and widowhood
shall suddenly overtake you, both in one day.
They shall come upon you in full,
notwithstanding your many magical feats
and exceedingly strong combinations.

These are a woman’s greatest fear, for those are a shame and a disgrace, “shall suddenly overtake you all in one day.” The day, of course, is a rhetorical link to the Day of Judgment. So, in that Day of Judgment, the end of days, the end-time of the world, Isaiah defines that day as a three-year period of judgment and destruction. There, things will suddenly overtake her, very suddenly, very quickly. And all the great destructions of the Old Testament, you look at them and most of them happen very suddenly and very quickly and unexpectedly; like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. That was sudden and unexpected. The destruction of Pharaoh and his army, that was sudden. Those things were not expected.

“They shall come upon you in full measure of covenant curses. Notwithstanding your many magical feats and exceedingly strong combinations.” This technology of Babylon, this promotion and sell and manufacturing and sell of the works of men’s hands has certain magical attributes, a certain magical thing about it. And you look at today’s technology, for example, and it blows you away. In spite of all that, in spite of the unions, various unions and conspiratorial forces that combine to form exceedingly strong combinations, that system is still very vulnerable when the Lord acts. Men think it is strong, men think it is in place and can’t be moved. There are so many people involved. Like Jeremiah says of Babylon: “Her wounds are incurable”. She can’t be mended; she has certain flaws, certain fundamental flaws in the system that will eventually bring about its destruction. Why? Because when she oppresses Zion, what is she doing? Where the harlot Babylon oppresses Zion, this is very much like fairy stories. The archetypes in fairy stories are the essentially the same as in Isaiah. We have the oppressive stepmother here who oppresses the innocent princess. She is of royal birth and that’s what the harlot Babylon does. She oppresses the woman Zion. So, these are archetypes we are talking about. When she does so, she is bringing upon herself the curses of the covenant the Lord made with his people. Right? With Zion.

If the people of Zion get their act together and begin to observe the laws of the covenant then God is bound by covenant to deliver her from oppression, from bondage, and from threats to her life. The way that He does it is by bringing the covenant curses of his covenant upon those who deny her rights; who infringe upon her rights. In this case it is Babylon. That is why ‘bereavement and widowhood’ are common covenant curses, why they come upon her in full. Now, there is no mercy for her. She showed no mercy. Now, she also receives no mercy.
All the way through Isaiah you will notice that whenever the King of Babylon, the King of Assyria, or Babylon, whatever they do to the Lord’s people happens to them too.

47:10

Secure in your wickedness,
you thought, No one discerns me.
By your skill and science you were led astray,
thinking to yourself, I exist,
and there is none besides me!

Wickedness, the opposite of righteousness. You thought: No one discerns me”. No one discerns Babylon really for what it is. All those who are caught up with it and are in the middle of it don’t really realize what it is really doing to them. If people who are in bondage in Egypt; if you’re born into bondage don’t you just accept that is what it is like—that that is life. This is how it is. Babylon has grown stronger and stronger in its power over time and in its ability to control people and yet it creeps up so slowly on them that they don’t realize just what it is doing to them. We pay half of our income, in some cases, to taxes now. We just think that is normal. Right? You look in the bible and the people who were taxed to that degree they considered themselves to be in grievous bondage. And yet, we think, this is just normal. We don’t discern Babylon for what it really is what it is doing to us. “No one discerns me”, she says. She’s getting away with it.

“By your skill and science you are led astray. Thinking to yourself I exist and there is nothing or there is none besides me”. Again, arrogating to herself divine powers, as if she were God. She stands in the place of God to those whom she oppresses. Also the term ‘skill and science’ indicates that there is a very sophisticated technology involved here. And because that technology, in and of itself, is probably good, people think, “This is wonderful!” but when the same technology, which is, in and of itself is good, is used to control and oppress to keep people in bondage then in becomes evil and it works against her.

47:11

Catastrophe shall overtake you,
which you shall not know how to avert by bribes;b
disaster shall befall you
from which you cannot ransom yourself:
there shall come upon you sudden ruin
such as you have not imagined.

Because that has been the order of the day, if a problem occurs, just bribe somebody and that takes care of that. You can bribe it away. Not this one, this is going to be a different kind of trouble. “Disaster shall befall you from which you cannot ransom yourself”. Who’s ransomed though? Is someone going to be ransomed out of it? Yes. The people of Zion are going to be ransomed out of it. The Lord keeps saying that over and over, but not Babylon.

“There shall come upon you sudden ruin such as you have not imagined.” When that whole structure collapses, we cannot even imagine what that will be like. It will be like the whole world comes to an end. That is why it is called the end of the world, the end of the present world. It will be a whole new world. Not the New World Order, I dare say, which is a counterfeit of what it is supposed to be, because that is, more or less, the perpetuation of things the way they are now except with more controls, more oppression, more bondage. But this new world will be free. It will be of a higher order, it will be a new paradise as Isaiah describes it. We can hardly imagine that and we can hardly imagine the destruction that will precede it.

47:12

Persist, then, with your combinations
and with your many magical feats,
at which you have exerted yourself since your youth.
It may still be of use to you;
perhaps you can hinderc it.

Combinations or machinations of people, intrigues, covenants, and orders, and plans and schemes and those kinds of things. Even the occult gets involved and is, perhaps, the center of the whole thing. You see later on in the book of Isaiah they are all a part of Babylon, “and your many magical feats.” Your wonderful technology that just blows people away. But, really, that technology, in and of itself, has nothing to do with Babylon. It is just being utilized for her purposes to dupe people. “…of which you have exerted yourself since your youth.” They will still be of use to you, perhaps you can hinder it. So, now Isaiah is beginning to mock her. Speak of her satirically. It’s been a great effort all this time, if you work a little harder you may be able to avert disaster, you may be able to do something about the trouble that is looming on the horizon.

47:13

But you are powerless, despite all your tactics.
Now let those who unravel the heavens,
who observe the stars
and make predictions month by month,
stand by you and save you!

She is a woman and women do use tactics. Men do too, of course, in certain instances. In spite of these tactics and all the machinations, all of the intrigues, she is really powerless before God who has all power. “Now let that those who unravel the heavens, who observe the stars, and make predictions month by month stand by you and save you.” Why? Because those guys have been predicting a wonderful new age, too-- A New World Order. All the things by the year 2000- we will be doing, and all of the kind of technologies, the architectures, all the things we will be doing in the future. And if we follow these statistics that’s where it will lead us and it will just get bigger and better as time goes on. So, we might as well all have a piece of the pie. A bigger piece for me and a small piece for you, of course, and that’s how it works. And all of that is phony, because those people [Mostly main stream media shills and economists] will not be able to predict what’s going to happen. They have never even conceived that all their schemes are going to come to nothing, so he is mocking them. Now all those guys predict, go ahead, let them predict, see how it measures out as to what is going to happen.

47:14

See, as stubble they are burnt up in the fire,
unable themselves to escape the hand of the flame.
These are no embers to warm anyone;
such is no fire to sit by!

A ‘fire’ is, of course, the Day of Judgment, and the destruction by fire and by the sword. It is also a metaphor to describe the King of Assyria or the King of Babylon who destroys the very entity he represents. The ‘stubble’ is a chaos motif, it is like the ‘dust’, they are reduced to nothing. ‘Unable of themselves to escape the hand of the flame.’ Those who do escape, of course, are the people of Zion. Again, the ‘hand’ is the left hand; the ‘flame’ is also the metaphor describing the King of Babylon or the King of Assyria. “These are no embers to warm anyone. Such is no fire to sit by.” Like the fire of the idolaters, half the pieces they made an idol out of and the other half they burned in the fire and they warm themselves by it. See, he really is just mocking her here. This ‘fire’ is a much greater fire; it’s a very destructive fire. It’s a fire that turns everybody to dust and flying chaff in an instant.

47:15

This is what your procurersd have profited you—
those for whom you have exerted yourself
since your youth—
each deviates his own way;
none is there to save you.

The ‘procurers’ are your salesmen or your pimps . You’ve exerted yourself in this lifestyle from your youth. This is what you were from the beginning. ‘Each deviates his own way’, because they are all deviants that associate with her, in one way or another; more or less. Everyone who follows the Babylon paradigm is deviant in some way from God—the creator-- from his plan. Some of them in gross ways, some of them not. ‘None is there to save you’. No salvation for Babylon when at the very time there is salvation for Zion because of her righteousness and the servant is there to save her—Zion. So, which do you want to be part of? It’s basically your choice.

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/isaiah_ch_47.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;