DIVORCE--what would you say?

[HeirofNumenor]

"People who suffer divorce see life's dream of that eternal family pass from before their eyes and it is a death that is to be mourned over. A great loss has occurred. Regardless of what we suffer, whether abuse or an unfaithful spouse, the loss of that eternal family is huge and takes a significant amount of time to mourn its loss".

Very well said Aussie - it is devastating - the loss of that eternal family.

Exactly......unless the person is an utter jerk and abomination...divorce hurts ALL parties involved.

[Penstress]

Mental illness, mental handicap is definitely a valid reason. Sometimes we don't know those issues are there in the beginning. They are unfair to the spouse who has to live with such a challenge. It's one thing for a spouse to be free willing to do bad things, they can change but with mental illness, autism, etc ... It can't be changed. It's very hard. I lived it and finally left.

[Fiannan]

Kind of begs the question Mingano was asking. What is the point of doing this stuff now? Sounds like it just creates more work later in order to fix all the problems.

I believe it lets our Heavenly Father know what our intentions really are. Okay, so a couple gets married and sealed and really love each other. However, for some reason or another the cares of the world destroy that bond to the extent that if they do stay married it is due to not wanting to undergo the stigma of divorce, not upset the kids or ruin themselves economically. They become room-mates with or without benefits and live their own lives. I think this is fairly common. However, if the people have the spirit they may recapture their love sometime before death or maybe in the next life. If not they can be re-assigned to a more deserving partner (s). However, if one does not undergo the ordinances then I believe they have no actual binding promise.

[heartsongs]

This is just my opinion. I am divorced, it wasn't what I desired. I had to make a decision when, "it"... was enough. This was a hard decision and one that I did not make litely. My husband conveniently forgot that you are supposed to stop dating once you are married. Consequently, his frequent "outings" shall we say ended up being the cause of our divorce. I read once that all problems are spiritual before they are physical. I have read and heard more than one prophet/apostle say that if "two people" are righteous (to the best of their ability) they, can make any marriage one that works, and is happy and prosperous. I believe these statement to be true. If both husband and wife are trying to be righteous and do what is right, of course making mistakes along the way, repenting, forgiving, listening, and making course corrections as needed, then, things will work. You see, love is not an adjective. Love, is a verb. One that denotes action. So, if you are putting the Gospel, the pure love of Christ, the atonement and all of those things like it, and what we are taught into action, you will surely be placing your spouse above yourself, thereby, making for a happy family, marriage, and home life. There is no way such a formula/plan can go wrong or fail. But, when we lack a sure testimony of the Gospel, and our Savior, when we are not truly converted in our hearts to the Plan of Salvation, the Gospel, this Church, the Savior, and all it stands for, then, we have a spiritual problem that spills over into our physical lives making it impossible for lasting and true happiness to be achieved, at least the kind of happiness that lasts forever. Marriage is work!!! A work that never ends, just like coming to know our Savior and being a true disciple of Christ is work. Just like getting up and going to our daily job, raising our children, cleaning house and performing all our other duties is work. It's just that some jobs really matter very little in this mortality, while others come with wide and far reaching eternal consequences especially when not performed with all diligence. We...just have to decide which job(s) we will give our highest devotions too, and work the hardest on.

[eric]

Mental illness, mental handicap is definitely a valid reason. Sometimes we don't know those issues are there in the beginning. They are unfair to the spouse who has to live with such a challenge. It's one thing for a spouse to be free willing to do bad things, they can change but with mental illness, autism, etc ... It can't be changed. It's very hard. I lived it and finally left.

Penstress, I am not arguing here - I judge no one on the topic of divorce - its very personal in nature. Only God can be the judge of something that causes such a profound change of being that someone would decide to go thru that.

Short story - my wife was diagnosed with very serious mental illness after losing a child and having several in rapid succession. After years of coping with the symptoms (which included vicious attacks on my character and horrible public embarrassment), I pleaded with the Lord to release me from the marriage and had been given permission after much prayer - but told that I would not be entitled to the blessings of having stuck through it. When I let my feelings be known publicly, a long-suffering Bro in the ward (temple worker and married to a wife for 25 years in nearly identical circumstances) found out and did an intervention, asking me what my wife would do if I had a brain injury due to falling off a roof or something. I told him that she would change my diapers and care for me 'til the day I died. He told me that my I needed to consider what my wife had was an injury that I could not see. I was convicted on the spot - I felt terrible for my lack of devotion to my queen - and used that sorrow I felt to double my efforts to find out what was really wrong with her brain/body. I went from bitter and angry at my situation to resolve and loving my wife in spite of the frustration I felt (including at myself for not being smart enough to "avoid" what I saw so many others going through - and had determined to not be "sucked" into it). I was also worried about the safety of the kids during much of the ordeal - even though my wife has such solid character, I doubt she would have/could have crossed those kinds of threshholds. My plan was to try and find an apartment close by where we could still help her - but where we could have a sense of normalcy in the home.

After two 72 hour fasts and alot of digging around on the internet, a cure consisting of megadoses of B-12 (injectable) was found and her personality returned to the pre-pregnancy normals. I am SO grateful that God gave me that perspective and insight - I hate to say it, because I would not wish it on someone like Hitler or Stalin, but there is no other way I could have grown so much - and learned to love my sweetheart so deeply. I learned SO MUCH of stewardship and love. I am still so imperfect and fall so short - but money cannot buy that kind of experience. When you get a lifetime of wisdom packed into a few short years, its a gift from God - not a curse.

Again - I fault no one for choosing divorce - unless they had pre-marital sex with their sweetie and then wondered why there was infidelity afterwards. My MIL still complains about the louse she married - but fails to make the correlation between her giving it up on the second date and being forced to get married due to pregnancy - and guy she was "stuck" with being a serial philanderer. Perhaps, if people would keep the legs crossed until the wedding night, the ones that really are not right for them would wander off looking for "greener" pastures and the ones who would be prone to stick it out til the end, would do just that - and most likely be faithful til the end of the marital life. Sorry if that sounded harsh - its just my engineering brain doing cause and effect - I almost can't help myself.

[skmo]

I went from bitter and angry at my situation to resolve and loving my wife in spite of the frustration I felt (including at myself for not being smart enough to "avoid" what I saw so many others going through - and had determined to not be "sucked" into it)....

...Sorry if that sounded harsh - its just my engineering brain doing cause and effect - I almost can't help myself.

Take that engineer’s brain and look at what you said earlier. There may be situations people get into because they don’t understand and/or are unable to avoid, and they try to make the best of whatever situation they find themselves in. My wife’s parents took their purity to their wedding bed. They are active and fulfill all their callings to the best of their ability to the extent that their family duties have suffered because of the time they devoted to church duties since my wife was a little girl. In addition, while they are faithful in terms of sexual fidelity, they are often miserable with each other because they can’t communicate. I have often acted as a go-between and helped them smooth over differences, but since I’m out of their lives now they will have to rely on someone else. I have no idea how it’s going, nor do I much care.

On the other hand, my wife and I both had fornication issues before marriage, both before and after we met. We’ve had 25 years together, most of the time it’s been wonderfully happy. The problems we’ve had lately have been quite serious, and although infidelity added to the problem, it was far from being a cause or even a main contributor to the problem.

[eric]

I went from bitter and angry at my situation to resolve and loving my wife in spite of the frustration I felt (including at myself for not being smart enough to "avoid" what I saw so many others going through - and had determined to not be "sucked" into it)....

...Sorry if that sounded harsh - its just my engineering brain doing cause and effect - I almost can't help myself.

Take that engineer’s brain and look at what you said earlier. There may be situations people get into because they don’t understand and/or are unable to avoid, and they try to make the best of whatever situation they find themselves in. My wife’s parents took their purity to their wedding bed. They are active and fulfill all their callings to the best of their ability to the extent that their family duties have suffered because of the time they devoted to church duties since my wife was a little girl. In addition, while they are faithful in terms of sexual fidelity, they are often miserable with each other because they can’t communicate. I have often acted as a go-between and helped them smooth over differences, but since I’m out of their lives now they will have to rely on someone else. I have no idea how it’s going, nor do I much care.

On the other hand, my wife and I both had fornication issues before marriage, both before and after we met. We’ve had 25 years together, most of the time it’s been wonderfully happy. The problems we’ve had lately have been quite serious, and although infidelity added to the problem, it was far from being a cause or even a main contributor to the problem.

Yes, SKMO - there are no hard fast rules in life - and certainly no guarantees of outcomes based on rigid adherence to any rules. But, I find that those grey-haired old guys that speak to us every Gen Conference are onto something. The older I get, the more I find that, as random as life can be, the commandments are simply there to increase our odds of success - not necessarily to guarantee them.

Too many variables, too many factors - no perfect model, grumble, grumble..... But I am always hoping....

[mouse]

comment withdrawn

[mouse]

withdrawing comment

[sbsion]

temple cancellations?

[A Random Phrase]

Mouse, I usually skim over those types of posts. They hurt far too much, even though God was on my side when I chose to leave. For the same reason, I am leery of conversations with born-again Christians.

[Penstress]

Mental illness, mental handicap is definitely a valid reason. Sometimes we don't know those issues are there in the beginning. They are unfair to the spouse who has to live with such a challenge. It's one thing for a spouse to be free willing to do bad things, they can change but with mental illness, autism, etc ... It can't be changed. It's very hard. I lived it and finally left.

Penstress, I am not arguing here - I judge no one on the topic of divorce - its very personal in nature. Only God can be the judge of something that causes such a profound change of being that someone would decide to go thru that.

Short story - my wife was diagnosed with very serious mental illness after losing a child and having several in rapid succession. After years of coping with the symptoms (which included vicious attacks on my character and horrible public embarrassment), I pleaded with the Lord to release me from the marriage and had been given permission after much prayer - but told that I would not be entitled to the blessings of having stuck through it. When I let my feelings be known publicly, a long-suffering Bro in the ward (temple worker and married to a wife for 25 years in nearly identical circumstances) found out and did an intervention, asking me what my wife would do if I had a brain injury due to falling off a roof or something. I told him that she would change my diapers and care for me 'til the day I died. He told me that my I needed to consider what my wife had was an injury that I could not see. I was convicted on the spot - I felt terrible for my lack of devotion to my queen - and used that sorrow I felt to double my efforts to find out what was really wrong with her brain/body. I went from bitter and angry at my situation to resolve and loving my wife in spite of the frustration I felt (including at myself for not being smart enough to "avoid" what I saw so many others going through - and had determined to not be "sucked" into it). I was also worried about the safety of the kids during much of the ordeal - even though my wife has such solid character, I doubt she would have/could have crossed those kinds of threshholds. My plan was to try and find an apartment close by where we could still help her - but where we could have a sense of normalcy in the home.

After two 72 hour fasts and alot of digging around on the internet, a cure consisting of megadoses of B-12 (injectable) was found and her personality returned to the pre-pregnancy normals. I am SO grateful that God gave me that perspective and insight - I hate to say it, because I would not wish it on someone like Hitler or Stalin, but there is no other way I could have grown so much - and learned to love my sweetheart so deeply. I learned SO MUCH of stewardship and love. I am still so imperfect and fall so short - but money cannot buy that kind of experience. When you get a lifetime of wisdom packed into a few short years, its a gift from God - not a curse.

Again - I fault no one for choosing divorce - unless they had pre-marital sex with their sweetie and then wondered why there was infidelity afterwards. My MIL still complains about the louse she married - but fails to make the correlation between her giving it up on the second date and being forced to get married due to pregnancy - and guy she was "stuck" with being a serial philanderer. Perhaps, if people would keep the legs crossed until the wedding night, the ones that really are not right for them would wander off looking for "greener" pastures and the ones who would be prone to stick it out til the end, would do just that - and most likely be faithful til the end of the marital life. Sorry if that sounded harsh - its just my engineering brain doing cause and effect - I almost can't help myself.

Eric,
I'm glad you stuck it out. I didn't have romantic feelings, it was guilt that held me 12 yrs longer than I should have and fear. I have joy finally..... That's a fruit of "rightness" in my book. Joy!!!!! when you lie in bed at night for 12 yrs with sorrow a d disappointment... It sure feels amazing now. My gratitude is so deep.

[eric]

Yes, I think that is the object of our existence. When we have no joy, the angels are grieved and our purposes here on earth are thwarted. I am never more happy than when I see two people that are equally yoked and happily coupled. There are struggles so that we appreciate the sweet times, but I think the majority of the time should be the "sweet time". I know that if a couple is not happy with their situation on this earth, we are not forced or "locked into" a bad situation for the eternities. I think there is alot more fluidity than we realize after we cross over. Also, you mentioned fear that kept you in the relationship - there is no fear in love. I believe we will be allowed to choose whether we remain together in the eternities. Even if both qualify for celestial living, I think there will be many who choose not to go the distance together.

[Penstress]

Eric,

I totally agree..... Thank you for our thoughts. This topic is very close to me right now considering m own experience.