DIVORCE--what would you say?

[JohnnyL]

If both parties will agree, I would suggest to seek counseling right away. Who you go to is up to you. I would also suggest seeking counseling even if it's just you that go. I know I am going to be the "black sheep" of the group....I actually do believe divorce can be for the best. I'll give a little background...my parents had a very tumultuous marriage; my father was a severe alcoholic and well, it just wasn't good. He owned a bar and wanted my sister and I to work in the bar when we grew up....that was when my mom said *$#^$^$#*$^&$ NO WAY and left. And yes, I do believe and know other people who were directed from the Lord to divorce....Everyone is going to have limits to what they will and will not put up with. You are the only one that will know how much you can take. That's why I suggest you seek to talk to a counselor to help you work through what's going on with both sides. Some of the things you listed can be worked through IF Both of you are Willing to WORK at what it is going to take to get the marriage back on track; to work on yourselves individually and learning what is needed to bring the two of you back together as a couple....hope that helps, sorry if not..

Good advice.
I would change, though, the counseling part, especially for certain situations. I've seen it make bad marriages worse. In some cases separate counseling is much better. Or videorecording/ voice recording perspectives and sharing them like that.
I've also seen energy healing work wonders.

That is true, I am sure in cases it does make bad marriages worse. What type specific type of energy healing are you talking about?

One couple was always arguing, counseling was great--for about a month, until she fell back into her old ways. Is there a way to "erase" those old ways, or the triggers/ things that set them off? With energy healing, yes, and it often takes just one time. It can also be used to instill new ways much more quickly.
One couple was always arguing, she had bipolar disorder; when that got fixed, their relationship was better.
One couple was always arguing, he had a huge guilt emotion towards his mom, so he would side with her (even when she was unrighteous) against his wife. Until that is dealt with, their relationship will continue to be unstable (my prediction). Energy healing can take care of that, probably one session.

Since the majority of marriage issues in typical LDS marriages aren't malicious/ planned, and the majority of people would prefer to be happy in the marriage than otherwise, most problems can be taken care of very well by energy healing.

A lot can do it: EFT (emotional freedom technique) or other meridian tapping,
Emotion Code and the Body Code,
"applied kinesiology" and all the other branches,
etc.
I don't like Quantum Touch or Reiki for these situations.
I stay away from Theta Healing, channeling, angels, etc.

[mingano]

I don't like Quantum Touch or Reiki for these situations.

I don't like Reiki or any of the "energy healers" because they have never been able to demonstrate if they can even detect if a person is there or not.

[jdawg1012]

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Yes, and Christ said that Moses gave the people that provision (as I just posted for you) because the people were too wicked to keep His laws, not because it was just cause. That's exactly my point, thanks for posting.

[braingrunt]

JohnnyL - what do you doubt? He married wife #2 in the temple (not possible without FP approval). First wife had no objections and still uses his name. There was no sin so no excommunication and church policy is to leave the sealings intact unless there is a very good reason not to. First wife must give consent to any subsequent sealings if she is alive and she had no objections whatsoever.

So on exactly which point are you calling me a liar here?

I'll tell you what I doubt, I doubt wife #1 will be worthy to have him in the CK unless she seriously repents of her selfishness and wacked out priorities. I certainly don't expect there to be a polygamous relationship in the next life for them.

[mingano]

I'll tell you what I doubt, I doubt wife #1 will be worthy to have him in the CK unless she seriously repents of her selfishness and wacked out priorities. I certainly don't expect there to be a polygamous relationship in the next life for them.

There very well may be more to it than that, I only know that her work took her out of the country for months at a time and she didn't think it was fair to leave him alone like that all the time. I'd say that she certainly had more compassion toward her husband than many wives in "happy" marriages.

Best part of all is that I don't have to judge - or even care. He is sealed to two women, and nobody deemed the first wife of having committed any sin and she is (last I heard) still a fully active and faithful member.

[braingrunt]

I'm not necessarily suspecting anything deeper or hidden to the situation. Just that which is obvious: for her divorce was preferable to making other changes in her life, such as *GASP* a change in employment. I have this theory that if you won't work and sacrifice for the Lord's blessings then you won't wind up with them.

[mingano]

I'm not necessarily suspecting anything deeper or hidden to the situation; just that for her divorce was preferable to making other changes in her life, such as *GASP* a change in employment. I have this theory that if you won't work and sacrifice for the Lord's blessings then you won't wind up with them.

Who knows? Again, I'm not paid enough to care. Maybe there was more to it than that. Doesn't matter - the whole point is that guys can be sealed to more than one living woman even if the first wife did nothing to merit expulsion from the church.

[braingrunt]

How did this thread end up touching on polygamy again?

[mingano]

How did this thread end up touching on polygamy again?

Never far from the surface in Mormonism - and when discussing multiple sealings it is inevitable.

I am still waiting for a good answer as to why women can be sealed to more than one husband. :ymcowboy:

[lgr3065]

A woman can be sealed to another man while still living. She has to get permission from the ex-there is a process involved (I believe a man must get permission from a living ex to be sealed to another women (this was the case with my sister and also a sister in law) A woman who is decease can be sealed to more than one husband-it allows her to choose which spouse.

[sadie_Mormon]

I’ve been reading through all of the posts in reply to the OP and suspect many here are men. Being a woman who is divorced I can only speak for myself obviously. I agree that the word abuse is used loosely unfortunately in this country. However there is a line that should never be crossed.

I’m in no way an advocate of divorce, but I am not in a position to judge another persons relationship when I have no clue what is going on. What’s right for me can be completely wrong for the other person.

Ever watch the movie, “The Burning Bed”? watch it below. It will show you what happens when one stays in an abusive relationship. It was based on a true story. This movie gives me nightmares!

[shadow]

I am still waiting for a good answer as to why women can be sealed to more than one husband. :ymcowboy:

Agency.

[mingano]

I am still waiting for a good answer as to why women can be sealed to more than one husband. :ymcowboy:

Agency.

So they have agency to be in polyandrous marriages?

[shadow]

I am still waiting for a good answer as to why women can be sealed to more than one husband. :ymcowboy:

Agency.

So they have agency to be in polyandrous marriages?

So they will have the agency to choose which husband to be sealed to for eternity.

[mingano]

So being sealed during mortality is just some kind of irrelevant game?

[sbsion]

there will be a "divorce" for every couple who do NOT live up to their covenants

[mingano]

there will be a "divorce" for every couple who do NOT live up to their covenants

That's actually how the various polygamist societies do things. Weird that on some things they act more like God does things than the mainstream church does.

[shadow]

So being sealed during mortality is just some kind of irrelevant game?

No, it's a serious "game" which is why women, who have lost their husband, can be sealed again to another husband after their previous husband has passed away. Agency. You are aware that the wife CAN remarry once her husband dies, right? It's doctrinal.
If the first husband was a twit and the second husband is wonderful then why not allow the wife agency to choose which spouse for eternity? In all the cases that I'm aware of (very limited), once the first husband has died the wife will remarry for time only, IF she decides to remarry at all.

[mingano]

No, it's a serious "game" which is why women, who have lost their husband, can be sealed again to another husband after their previous husband has passed away. Agency. You are aware that the wife CAN remarry once her husband dies, right? It's doctrinal.

Usually for time only. And the scriptures were very clear about the wife getting remarried - in fact it was an absolute commandment that she marry his brother, whether he was previously married or not. But God changed his mind on that so that's a section of the bible that should be ignored.

If the first husband was a twit and the second husband is wonderful then why not allow the wife agency to choose which spouse for eternity?

Without any input from the guy?

In all the cases that I'm aware of (very limited), once the first husband has died the wife will remarry for time only, IF she decides to remarry at all.

There were various cases back in the JS/BY days. No word on whether the guys were twits or not.

[shadow]

If the first husband was a twit and the second husband is wonderful then why not allow the wife agency to choose which spouse for eternity?

Without any input from the guy?

Maybe, maybe not. It will be worked out in the spirit world. The second sealing doesn't automatically cancel the first, it creates a choice.

This is my opinion, BTW. :ymparty:

[mingano]

Since everything will be worked out in the spirit world where people have a much clearer vision of what is going on and what the consequences of various actions will be wouldn't it be best to simply put off as much as possible until that time?

[shadow]

Since everything will be worked out in the spirit world where people have a much clearer vision of what is going on and what the consequences of various actions will be wouldn't it be best to simply put off as much as possible until that time?

Why work it out there when it can be worked out here? The widow/wife probably already knows which husband she would rather be with. Your question was if the first husband, who has died, had a say or not. Maybe he does, but if he does it will be in the spirit world because that's where he resides.

[mingano]

Why work it out there when it can be worked out here?

In many cases it can't. Why bother trying?

[shadow]

Why work it out there when it can be worked out here?

In many cases it can't. Why bother trying?

I think it can but how would anyone know if they didn't try?

[JohnnyL]

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Yes, and Christ said that Moses gave the people that provision (as I just posted for you) because the people were too wicked to keep His laws, not because it was just cause. That's exactly my point, thanks for posting.

Whatever. It's quite clear that is NOT the case. You're misunderstanding the scriptures, and avoiding the bold, italicized, underlined, red part (sorry, I tried to make it bigger too, but...). Jesus is not preaching Moses in the Sermon on the Mount, is He?