BYU student gives her reason for voting Obama.

[hopeNlove]

Being kind to women? Check.

Does that include Libyan or Pakistani women getting their guts blown all over the countryside by Obama drones?

Being kind to other races? Check

Yep, Obama foreign policy kills no matter what your race is.
.
Caring for the health of other people? Big check on that one.

Partial birth abortion...need I say more? OK I will...mandating a health policy to make sure everyone gets reduced care equally.


Ending wars? I think Jesus would like that... thou shall not kill...

Backing Islamic extremists who want to kill uppity women and religious minorities...real Jesus there.

Increasing the rights to marriage? I think Jesus would like that too.

Jesus loves gay marriage. ) Oh, a side note...why isn't Obama and his Igor (Harry Reid) defending polygamy?

I agree with you. And I agree with Benjamin.

I do want to respect everyone as a child of God and still hold on to Gospel standards. I know I do not walk as straight as I should sometimes but I try. I have also been called a hateful and a horrible christian for not supporting gay marriage and standing up for my beliefs. I know several gay people and as far as I am concerned I do love them and being told by people that I could not possibly love them because if I did I would support gay marriage....I see what they are saying but I simply do not agree with them.

[jonesde]

I agree with you. And I agree with Benjamin.

I do want to respect everyone as a child of God and still hold on to Gospel standards. I know I do not walk as straight as I should sometimes but I try. I have also been called a hateful and a horrible christian for not supporting gay marriage and standing up for my beliefs. I know several gay people and as far as I am concerned I do love them and being told by people that I could not possibly love them because if I did I would support gay marriage....I see what they are saying but I simply do not agree with them.

This is the tough part alright. IMO loving someone, and treating them with love and respect, does not mean accepting or supporting all of their actions. A good example of not loving someone is using force to control them, and this is usually both ineffective in changing behavior and destructive to all people involved.

It can certainly be hard to treat people in a loving way when we don't approve of their behavior. I try to remember that Christ taught love and showed examples of it for a reason. Just like the woman taken in adultery, if we do treat people in a loving way then there is a much better chance we'll influence their behavior to improve, and we'll edify instead of destroying both ourselves and others in the process.

[Fiannan]

I will bet she comes from a sheltered existence. Her world view is likely that of dancing unicorns with a dose of Disney Channel.

[jonesde]

I am of the opinion that a minimum IQ is needed to vote in this country. Not saying this girl is stupid, just misinformed. A product of our puplic shcool system no doubt. Her answers to the reasons she would vote for Obama are spewed out over and over again, and eventually, as GW Bush said, his job required that he repeated over and over again the lies they (the people) needed to accept as truths. (not verbatum). Can't say I am surprised that a student of BYU would say these things. They tend to invite a whole lot of liberals and globalists to speak there. Harry read was invited a while back and publicly ridiculed the church and it's leaders, and when someone hawked a big loogy on his picture which was advertising the event, that was all the school newspaper could talk about. The Founders had it right when only property owners could vote. Now I know that won't sit well with many of you that I said that, but it was the way that they figured the people would be able keep thier liberties more. Propety owners have something to lose. Today of course the right to vote is given to all, and the masses are generally uninformed, uneducated, or easily manipulated by the propganda machine that makes Goebbles's look like a little school boys.

The biggest problem with voting, and with our system of government in general when Constitutional limits are ignored, is that those who vote the most tend to oppress and steal from everyone else. On some issues only letting smart people vote might be good, but chances are over time smart people (or those the government determines to be smart, probably having little or nothing to with actual intelligence and competence) would then slowly oppress the ignorant more and more.

This shows up all over the place in politics. There isn't really any sort of uniform, popular voting in the USA, even though we are taught that when we vote that is what we are participating in. All sorts of loopholes and tricks are used, especially in selecting candidates and avoiding third-party candidates. In the USA it's basically those who are most politically connected who have the most influence in elections, helping perpetuate the worst parts of the system.

BTW, this is a perspective that Dan Carlin talks a lot about in his Common Sense podcast. He generally has good, balanced points, but I suppose he has a lot more confidence in being able to effectively fix things under our current system than I do. Actually, in some of his recent episodes he seems to be questioning that more... maybe he's coming around.

[Benjamin Harrison]

Amen brother. It will take alot more than just smart people voting. That was just the first thing that came to my mind. The main problem is that alot of people think we are a demoracy. Benjamin Franklin summed it up best when he said " A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner." Somewhere the idea came along and public opinion was deceived to think that America is a democracy. That was definetly not what our founders wanted. America was a Constitutional Republic where the minority was protected from the will of the majority. All had a say and all had rights, but somehow now we have mob rule and a bogus two party system which really is a one party system.

[gkearney]

I find some of the remarks here troubling to say the very least. Here we have members of the Church calling for another member to face Church discipline because you do not agree with her political beliefs? Given that none of you are her Bishop how can any of you even suggest such a thing?

If you are really all that worked up over what she has said there is a course of action approved, that course is to bring the matter before her Bishop and leave it with him. Not trash talk the girl on public forums. What your doing here is little more than what a coward would do. Your willing to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and call this girl's membership into question but your not willing to stand up like a real man and make the complaint to her Bishop are you?

Now I'm likely the most liberal person that posts on these boards, In all likelihood I would be one of the people that some of you would want excommunicated from the Church in your distorted world where Church leaders would be inquiring as to the political beliefs of members. Good thing for both me and this girl that those of you so willing to call for church actions against us are also cowards only willing to do so behind a vail of anonymity.

[Fiannan]

I find some of the remarks here troubling to say the very least. Here we have members of the Church calling for another member to face Church discipline because you do not agree with her political beliefs? Given that none of you are her Bishop how can any of you even suggest such a thing?

I may disagree with her but I would never punish her for her views.

And on another thing, a thread existed a while back in which there were people saying a girl's bishop should take action because the girl was wearing a dance dress and was a finalist for some TV show. Oh well.

[freedomforall]

I find some of the remarks here troubling to say the very least. Here we have members of the Church calling for another member to face Church discipline because you do not agree with her political beliefs? Given that none of you are her Bishop how can any of you even suggest such a thing?

If you are really all that worked up over what she has said there is a course of action approved, that course is to bring the matter before her Bishop and leave it with him. Not trash talk the girl on public forums. What your doing here is little more than what a coward would do. Your willing to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and call this girl's membership into question but your not willing to stand up like a real man and make the complaint to her Bishop are you?

Now I'm likely the most liberal person that posts on these boards, In all likelihood I would be one of the people that some of you would want excommunicated from the Church in your distorted world where Church leaders would be inquiring as to the political beliefs of members. Good thing for both me and this girl that those of you so willing to call for church actions against us are also cowards only willing to do so behind a vail of anonymity.

I have to interject here. Her views, IMO, are not political. On the contrary, they are moral issues. She can believe any way she wishes, nevertheless, her choices can and will impact her offspring. We are supposed to teach correct principles in our homes, and the Lord says anything more or less than this cometh of evil.

I love her as a child of God and a sister in the gospel, and i think her revealed beliefs are distorted...she didn't learn this stuff in church. Nor does she show any signs of knowing and understanding the Communist goals for our country which is geared to break down the family, teach and practice a gay lifestyle, destroy families through porno on TV, internet and the airwaves

I remember years ago a guy I knew had a gay friend. This guy talked with his mother extensively as to whether he should continue associating with that friend. The mother told him that it was not an issue of chasing with the guy as long as the guy didn't make advances on him. They stayed friends for years. I feel the same way, however, there is a huge difference in living a certain way and advertising it like it was something to emulate.

What was that girls intent by vocalizing all those issues that are clearly not taught in church? and as LDS's we're not supposed to help people live in sin. We then are no better off than they.

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

[Andrew52]

You know this is a prejudice against a group, right?

:ymsigh:
We can only judge good from evil- righteous judgments. Practicing gay or being pro gay is against the commandments of God. Not sure how you missed that one. The gay agenda is NOT simply to be treated fair, but to have the law and society accept their behavior- not even to just accept it but to validate it.

By the way, I have yet to see any significant number of pro gay rights people disapprove of the gay pride parades etc. and why would they? They're thinking is already flawed into believing that immorality should be acceptable.

+1 :ymapplause:

[Andrew52]

I find some of the remarks here troubling to say the very least. Here we have members of the Church calling for another member to face Church discipline because you do not agree with her political beliefs? Given that none of you are her Bishop how can any of you even suggest such a thing?

If you are really all that worked up over what she has said there is a course of action approved, that course is to bring the matter before her Bishop and leave it with him. Not trash talk the girl on public forums. What your doing here is little more than what a coward would do. Your willing to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and call this girl's membership into question but your not willing to stand up like a real man and make the complaint to her Bishop are you?

Now I'm likely the most liberal person that posts on these boards, In all likelihood I would be one of the people that some of you would want excommunicated from the Church in your distorted world where Church leaders would be inquiring as to the political beliefs of members. Good thing for both me and this girl that those of you so willing to call for church actions against us are also cowards only willing to do so behind a vail of anonymity.

I have to interject here. Her views, IMO, are not political. On the contrary, they are moral issues. She can believe any way she wishes, nevertheless, her choices can and will impact her offspring. We are supposed to teach correct principles in our homes, and the Lord says anything more or less than this cometh of evil.

I love her as a child of God and a sister in the gospel, and i think her revealed beliefs are distorted...she didn't learn this stuff in church. Nor does she show any signs of knowing and understanding the Communist goals for our country which is geared to break down the family, teach and practice a gay lifestyle, destroy families through porno on TV, internet and the airwaves

I remember years ago a guy I knew had a gay friend. This guy talked with his mother extensively as to whether he should continue associating with that friend. The mother told him that it was not an issue of chasing with the guy as long as the guy didn't make advances on him. They stayed friends for years. I feel the same way, however, there is a huge difference in living a certain way and advertising it like it was something to emulate.

What was that girls intent by vocalizing all those issues that are clearly not taught in church? and as LDS's we're not supposed to help people live in sin. We then are no better off than they.

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

I'm printing this one! :ymapplause:

[Andrew52]

I don't think its really that simple. Of course we love them as children of God. I am sad they choose a lifestyle that brings un-happiness.
They have a high suicide rate.
Would you agree with schools teaching that homosexuality is normal? They are being taught sexual privilege , to condone all sorts of behavior. And because their agenda is so full of venom, there is alot of pressure to accept or condone it. Just a this YW has done.

From the Cahtolic Church:

Wednesday, July 11, 2012


Homosexuality Destroys Civilizations

Fr. John Hardon warned that a culture that accepts homosexuality as a norm is a culture in its death throes. And so we are. In half a century homosexuality moved from universal societal condemnation to, not only, tolerance, but wholehearted approval. How did that happen? You can read a brief history here. Those who oppose homosexuality are vilified and attacked both by the media and in lawsuits. Pastor Scott Lively who ministers to homosexuals at a coffee house in New York faces a Soros-funded lawsuit, part of the latest homosexual tactic to destroy its opposition. Expensive frivolous lawsuits, "jamming" anyone who dares to call perverted behavior what it is - these are only two of the many tactics used to silence and punish opponents. Scott Lively exhibits the courage to fight the corruption of homosexuality. He is one of the few. This type of courage is almost invisible among our Catholic clergy. Here's a short video, but for a more in-depth examination go here and here.

Watch a speech by Scott Lively on the global threat of homosexuality here. Please pray for him. The fact is that a culture that embraces homosexual activity destroys itself, but nobody wants to say it. Our Catholic bishops should be in the forefront fighting this instead of coddling it like Archbishop Donald Wuerl

Fr. John Hardon catechism on homosexuality, homosexuality, pastor scott lively

[shadow]

It's really that simple. If you feel hatred toward anyone, you might consider keeping it to yourself.

So if I'm not for gay rights (including gay marriage) then I must hate gays? You're not thinking things through jonesde. I don't hate gays, I never said I did, but I don't like the gay movement. I'm against gay marriage. I'm against having laws that endorse gay activities. I don't hate gays, it's really that simple. Why you make it so difficult to differentiate is something you should probably get help with.

What does it mean to you to treat gays fairly, since you seem to think that's all they want? Personally, I think they are being treated fairly. I had a gay employee years ago and he was one of the best employees I've ever had. But did he go around demanding special treatment? Nope! I would have fired him if he did, but that was never an issue.
I bet you think gays should be able to marry each other because that's "fair", right? Maybe the church should take it off the sin list? Adam should be able to take Steve into the Temple and marry him for time and all eternity, right? That's "fair" isn't it?

[jonesde]

I don't think its really that simple. Of course we love them as children of God. I am sad they choose a lifestyle that brings un-happiness.
They have a high suicide rate.
Would you agree with schools teaching that homosexuality is normal? They are being taught sexual privilege , to condone all sorts of behavior. And because their agenda is so full of venom, there is alot of pressure to accept or condone it. Just a this YW has done.

I think you are responding to my comments...

Personally I don't agree with public schools at all, let alone anything they might teach about any sort of sexuality. Teaching about morality (or immorality) is one of many issues with public schools that falls under the category of a "Tragedy of the Commons". It is a system that for the most part takes a one-size-fits-all approach and therefore fails miserably.

On top of that we are all forced to pay for it, even those of us who don't want to send our own children there and who would also prefer the children of those around us to not go there. For most families, especially young families these days, private schooling is impossibly unaffordable because our economy is so hampered by tax burdens and regulation (govt is 45% of the US economy, the financial industry another 25%... it doesn't leave much room for productivity). Because of this public schools are almost universal.

How could we expect an institution that is immoral from its core to teach any sort of respectable morality?

[jonesde]

It's really that simple. If you feel hatred toward anyone, you might consider keeping it to yourself.

So if I'm not for gay rights (including gay marriage) then I must hate gays? You're not thinking things through jonesde. I don't hate gays, I never said I did, but I don't like the gay movement. I'm against gay marriage. I'm against having laws that endorse gay activities. I don't hate gays, it's really that simple. Why you make it so difficult to differentiate is something you should probably get help with.

What does it mean to you to treat gays fairly, since you seem to think that's all they want? Personally, I think they are being treated fairly. I had a gay employee years ago and he was one of the best employees I've ever had. But did he go around demanding special treatment? Nope! I would have fired him if he did, but that was never an issue.
I bet you think gays should be able to marry each other because that's "fair", right? Maybe the church should take it off the sin list? Adam should be able to take Steve into the Temple and marry him for time and all eternity, right? That's "fair" isn't it?

Yeah, I can't respond to this because I didn't say any of the things you said I did. I'll let the straw man respond.

[AlbertaBronco]

I hate to say it, but if any one votes for Obama, the are blind! They can not see that he is ruining your country! Some one who passes Obama care has no regard for the constitution! If you vote for Obama than you are an idiot and you will get exactly what you deserved! 4 more years of socialism and bankruptcy!

[George Alabaster]

So if I'm not for gay rights (including gay marriage) then I must hate gays?

Shadow,
That's right. Churches do not have to be fair, since they have a certain ideology, but the state should allow gay people to get married. If you are against that, then you are being mean to gay people. Maybe you don't realize the extent of your unfairness. Could your gay employee use their health insurance to cover their long term partner? Did they have visiting rights in the hospital? There are thousands of laws that mention marriage as a qualification.

George

[George Alabaster]

I hate to say it, but if any one votes for Obama, the are blind! They can not see that he is ruining your country! Some one who passes Obama care has no regard for the constitution! If you vote for Obama than you are an idiot and you will get exactly what you deserved! 4 more years of socialism and bankruptcy!

Alberta,
Ruining the country? I don't see it. The Supreme Court already ruled on Obamacare, so it's not unconstitutional. There is even a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, so you have no cause for complaint.

George

[shadow]

So if I'm not for gay rights (including gay marriage) then I must hate gays?

Shadow,
That's right. Churches do not have to be fair, since they have a certain ideology, but the state should allow gay people to get married. If you are against that, then you are being mean to gay people. Maybe you don't realize the extent of your unfairness. Could your gay employee use their health insurance to cover their long term partner? Did they have visiting rights in the hospital? There are thousands of laws that mention marriage as a qualification.

George

I once took your same position George, but I now disagree with that notion and agree with what Elder Faust said in general conference a few yrs ago-

"adults need to understand, and our children should be taught, that private choices are not private; they all have public consequences.

There is a popular notion that doing our own thing or doing what feels good is our own business and affects no one but us. The deadly scourges that are epidemic all over the world have flourished in the context of this popular notion. But this is simply not true.

All immoral behavior directly impacts society. Even innocent people are affected. Drug and alcohol abuse have public consequences, as do illegitimacy, pornography, and obscenity. The public cost in human life and tax dollars for these so-called private choices is enormous: poverty, crime, a less-educated work force, and mounting demands for government spending to fix problems that cannot be fixed by money. It simply is not true that our private conduct is our own business. Our society is the sum total of what millions of individuals do in their private lives. That sum total of private behavior has worldwide public consequences of enormous magnitude. There are no completely private choices.

Second, adults and children need to know that public and private morality is not outmoded. We need to love our children enough to teach them that laws, policies, and public programs with a moral and ethical basis are necessary for the preservation of a peaceful, productive, compassionate, and happy society. Without the qualities and characteristics of integrity, honesty, commitment, loyalty, respect for others, fidelity, and virtue, a free and open society CANNOT endure." -James E. Faust

[jonesde]

I hate to say it, but if any one votes for Obama, the are blind! They can not see that he is ruining your country! Some one who passes Obama care has no regard for the constitution! If you vote for Obama than you are an idiot and you will get exactly what you deserved! 4 more years of socialism and bankruptcy!

Alberta,
Ruining the country? I don't see it. The Supreme Court already ruled on Obamacare, so it's not unconstitutional. There is even a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, so you have no cause for complaint.

George

Obama and those working with him are absolutely ruining the country... but unfortunately so are the folks from the other major party.

The most socialist administration to date in the USA is the Obama administration, but the second most socialist administration was the Bush administration. Either the D candidate or the R candidate will win the POTUS election and regardless of who does their record will make them the most socialist administration so far in the USA. In health care, for example, Bush's pharma benefit was the biggest increase in welfare in decades, and Obama had to step pretty high to get something bigger passed... and yet Romney support 90% of Obamacare and just wants to tweak a few things and have the money flow slightly differently... but flow nonetheless.

These social programs, regulations, sapping of the productive economy, and moral corruption (yes, in both parties, absolutely) can certainly be labeled as "ruining" this country. From freedom of the press and freedom of religion to economic freedoms the USA is falling fast on the list of freest countries in the world, but maybe that's not the best way to look at it. The USA has fallen MASSIVELY from the freedoms enjoyed even 50 years ago, and even moreso from 100 years ago.

[Fiannan]

So if I'm not for gay rights (including gay marriage) then I must hate gays?

Shadow,
That's right. Churches do not have to be fair, since they have a certain ideology, but the state should allow gay people to get married. If you are against that, then you are being mean to gay people. Maybe you don't realize the extent of your unfairness. Could your gay employee use their health insurance to cover their long term partner? Did they have visiting rights in the hospital? There are thousands of laws that mention marriage as a qualification.

George

http://www.newsoxy.com/entertainment/cl ... 73049.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay just for the sake of argument let's say Bill wanted to marry these gals -- all of them! Are we hating men and women with high libido by saying they have to choose which to marry?

[George Alabaster]

...Okay just for the sake of argument let's say Bill wanted to marry these gals -- all of them! Are we hating men and women with high libido by saying they have to choose which to marry?

Fiannan,
Historically, we Mormons would allow that! But I don't think polygamy is even in the national spotlight. If it were, I would be willing to consider their arguments. I do think it gets into some tricky legal questions about estate planning and custody. If I were fundamentally opposed to polygamy, then yes, I do think that would mean I hate polygamists.

George

[durangout]

So if I'm not for gay rights (including gay marriage) then I must hate gays?

Shadow,
That's right. Churches do not have to be fair, since they have a certain ideology, but the state should allow gay people to get married. If you are against that, then you are being mean to gay people. Maybe you don't realize the extent of your unfairness. Could your gay employee use their health insurance to cover their long term partner? Did they have visiting rights in the hospital? There are thousands of laws that mention marriage as a qualification.

George

http://www.newsoxy.com/entertainment/cl ... 73049.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay just for the sake of argument let's say Bill wanted to marry these gals -- all of them! Are we hating men and women with high libido by saying they have to choose which to marry?

This is one of your funniest posts ever, althought I suspect you didin't mean it as a joke. Your conclusions are incorrect IMHO.

[shadow]

Churches do not have to be fair, since they have a certain ideology, but the state should allow gay people to get married. If you are against that, then you are being mean to gay people. Maybe you don't realize the extent of your unfairness.
George

:-\
Lets follow your line of reasoning (if you can call it that)-

So God and His church on earth aren't fair (because they don't have to be) and are mean to gay people because the church, and God, are against gay marriage? And since I submit my will to this particular teaching of God then I am now mean and unfair?

Maybe you don't realize the extent of your ignorance. I think you're being mean to gay people by validating their sin by making it legal and acceptable. You should love them enough to help and encourage and be an example but instead you give a porn addict a playboy subscription.

[Benjamin Harrison]

Wow! That chick is a Political Science Major at the Y! What are they teaching there? Obviously she has not read the material that I studied. Somebody with a you tube account e-mail this lost little girl and send her some references to some good books please! The 1st I recommend would be The Making of America (that goes for all the others on this forum who need enlightenment) The Naked Communist and Capitalist. W. Cleon Skousen. Why nations Go To War used to be required reading and The Shadow Government as well. None Dare Call It Conspiracy is another good one and anything from Pres. Ezra Taft Benson would be a good start.

[blondenblueeyed]

As sad as it may be, Hannah the Mormon who is voting for Obama evidently has missed seminary, regular scripture study and the official stance of the LDS Church on gay marriage. The Lord has specifically said in the scriptures that homosexuality is an abomination and it was punishable by DEATH. The Lord's law supercedes man's law. Example: it is not against the law to commit adultery however it is against God's law and was punishable by death!

God doesn't change HIS laws to fit the times and seasons of man. Neither does he 'excuse Himself' for those laws. It is up to man to conform and obey God's laws. Therein lies the problem. I know for the liberals out there this is terribly unfair! Well, get used to it.
When you (those who support homosexuality and other perverted lifestyes) meet with God at the Judgement Bar, feel free to argue your way out of that one. Betcha the Lord isn't gonna change His views or His laws no matter how 'UNFAIR' it seems. Meanwhile Hanna, keep drinking the Obama kool-aid @-) and you and/or your children will be in shackles with the Constitution completely gone before you know it. Honestly if you are attending BYU and still have those idealogical views I doubt there is any hope for you.