LDS Freedom Forum

jwharton wrote:viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37135&e=1&view=unread#unread

Darren wrote:I have yet to find one GA quote that says that Young Women should serve missions. To say so is false "member doctrine."

My 17 year old daughter says that she feels pushed to go on a mission almost every time she is at church. Are we forcing a new Mormon Culture tenant and version of Feminism upon our daughters?

God Bless,
Darren

I decided I should talk to my daughter about it, who is also 17 years old, and I was aghast at what has actually been going on that she has just been quietly enduring.

She is now standing here with me and I am going to share two of her experiences, among several she mentioned.

A few weeks ago there was a youth fireside where missionary work was talked about. The speaker was the mission president and asked the youth how many were considering serving a mission. He asked for the actual show of hands. My daughter didn't raise her hand and the person sitting next to her was visibly upset and insisted that she raise her hand. She declined saying "no" but they continued to pressure her to raise her hand. She eventually said, firmly, that she was not going to lie and that she had not and is not considering going on a mission. Then that person shook their head to themselves and acted very disappointed in her as if she had done something very wrong. Later in the meeting the youth were again asked for a show of hands to see who was considering going on a mission. And, yet again, the exact same pressure and insistence repeated, which my daughter thought was very bizarre.

There have also been personal exchanges with other youth who acted very surprised and really skeptical about her not planning on serving a mission. Their reaction seemed to her that they were really questioning her faithfulness and worthiness, as if she was some kind of a "lost sheep" and would pry and pry and pry trying to make her defend herself, which she declined to do. This was very uncomfortable for her.

What she says is people are starting to talk to her with the assumption or that it is a given that she is going to serve. Fortunately, she is astute and sees that for what it is and isn't swayed by it. This spurred on a talk just now about what I call "context injection conditioning" which I described to her as a form of insidious brainwashing to be wary of. What I described it to her as is something she said was being used on her to brainwash her into serving a mission and that it was mostly from her peers but also from the leaders too.

Our young sisters should NOT be subjected to this!

There is NO requirement upon the sisters to serve missions and the members should respect that.

Darren wrote:A copy of this post belongs on this topic:

jwharton wrote:viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37135&e=1&view=unread#unread

Darren wrote:I have yet to find one GA quote that says that Young Women should serve missions. To say so is false "member doctrine."

My 17 year old daughter says that she feels pushed to go on a mission almost every time she is at church. Are we forcing a new Mormon Culture tenant and version of Feminism upon our daughters?

God Bless,
Darren

I decided I should talk to my daughter about it, who is also 17 years old, and I was aghast at what has actually been going on that she has just been quietly enduring.

She is now standing here with me and I am going to share two of her experiences, among several she mentioned.

A few weeks ago there was a youth fireside where missionary work was talked about. The speaker was the mission president and asked the youth how many were considering serving a mission. He asked for the actual show of hands. My daughter didn't raise her hand and the person sitting next to her was visibly upset and insisted that she raise her hand. She declined saying "no" but they continued to pressure her to raise her hand. She eventually said, firmly, that she was not going to lie and that she had not and is not considering going on a mission. Then that person shook their head to themselves and acted very disappointed in her as if she had done something very wrong. Later in the meeting the youth were again asked for a show of hands to see who was considering going on a mission. And, yet again, the exact same pressure and insistence repeated, which my daughter thought was very bizarre.

There have also been personal exchanges with other youth who acted very surprised and really skeptical about her not planning on serving a mission. Their reaction seemed to her that they were really questioning her faithfulness and worthiness, as if she was some kind of a "lost sheep" and would pry and pry and pry trying to make her defend herself, which she declined to do. This was very uncomfortable for her.

What she says is people are starting to talk to her with the assumption or that it is a given that she is going to serve. Fortunately, she is astute and sees that for what it is and isn't swayed by it. This spurred on a talk just now about what I call "context injection conditioning" which I described to her as a form of insidious brainwashing to be wary of. What I described it to her as is something she said was being used on her to brainwash her into serving a mission and that it was mostly from her peers but also from the leaders too.

Our young sisters should NOT be subjected to this!

There is NO requirement upon the sisters to serve missions and the members should respect that.

And thank you jwharton for sharing your experience.

I have been documenting this sin and despicable practice of peer pressure and pushing the young women to go on missions, and the problems it is causing for what is of our more traditional and True Culture.

If a young woman concludes on her own, after receiving proper teachings about her true nature and roll in life, and she still wants to go on a mission, by all means she should be able to go, and the Church makes that available to her, great. I have ever only said that young women should not be pushed to go on a mission, as that is a deviant practice to True Culture. And pushing young women to go on missions is a very apparent practice in our new and most recent version of Mormon Culture. That very act of pushing them, against their true nature and natural roll, is sin.

A week ago my daughter went to Kansas City for a Regional Laurals and Priests Activity. The speaker was a young woman who was injured on her mission but was able to return to the mission field later and finish her mission. My daughter told me that the continuing pushing on her to serve a mission was part of her experience at that activity. My daughter's seminary experience has just about drove here nuts with the continuous inference and pushing to go on a mission. We talked to her seminary teacher about it, but she has not been able to curtail the peer pressure in that class for the young women there to feel that they should serve a mission. My daughter feels bullied at seminary over the issue of serving a mission. And has been quietly enduring intense pressure.


God Bless,
Darren

To the Guys Who Will Only Date RMs, From a Girl Who Isn't One

Almost three years ago, my life changed entirely when President Monson announced the lowering of the mission age for girls and I chose not to serve.

Don't get me wrong. I really wanted to. An option that had been, at that point, less than a year away for me was suddenly available much sooner. I thought about it almost every night before I went to bed for a month. Girls I never expected to serve were already announcing on Facebook how they were meeting with their bishops and getting their papers ready. And then there was me, a 20-year old who loved the gospel, but was worried she might choose to serve because everyone else was and even more worried because the answer she kept getting when she prayed about it was no. For the next two weeks, that was the answer that I kept giving.

So are you going to serve? No.
Is it because you're afraid? No.
You're not unworthy to serve, I'd think. No.
Then why not?

Because the answer was no. Not my answer, not the answer I wanted, but the answer the Lord gave me when I asked, and I must have asked him every morning, noon, and night. It was always no.

Over time, I learned to deal with the questions and accept that answer, and what followed that fateful October were, ironically, the best two years of my life. I was given a calling that changed my life, made my weaknesses strengths, gave me confidence in the Savior and the truthfulness of the church, and also led me to share the gospel in unexpected ways, one being this blog. Almost three years later, I am happy that I didn't serve a mission, because the Lord had another one in mind for me, and it has blessed my life in numberless ways. Could I still serve? I guess so, but the answer right now is still no.

And I am okay with not being an RM.

To some of you guys who have recently returned from missions, however, I've learned that that answer isn't good enough. It's not okay. And it's caused me to write you this letter.



It used to be that girls who didn't serve missions were commonplace and there was nothing wrong. But suddenly, in the world of dating particularly, the tables have turned drastically and unexpectedly. Girls like me who didn't serve missions are being ruled out as potential dates every day by some of you guys. Girls like me who didn't serve missions are being overlooked because, as one of you said in my Institute class one day, "I've decided to only date RMs. It can only improve church stock to have RMs marrying RMs because both would be on the same spiritual level."

It doesn't matter that we sisters are doing our best to do the Lord's will. It doesn't matter that we are obedient and hardworking and faithful, that we are growing, too, and that we are making a difference in our communities and schools. It doesn't matter that we attend our meetings every Sunday, magnify our callings, spend a day every single week in the temple, and it doesn't matter if we are beautiful, funny, loving, and kind. Because we didn't choose to serve missions and you did, you've ruled us out. I can try to understand why, but the reality is, I don't really know why. It's sad to me that an experience I thought would teach you all about humility and not judging others doesn't seem to hold any water once you come home, look at the girls who didn't serve, and decide they aren't good enough for you. The question that must be asked is what makes you think that you're too good for them?

I don't know why this attitude exists or where it came from, and I realize that I'm already sounding harsh, but I know that lately, I hear about this all of the time and it needs to stop. I've had conversations with great girls who are frustrated and mortified by you because you tell them no. I've read comments on my blog by mothers who are completely disappointed in you because you told their beautiful daughters you wouldn't date them if they weren't RMs. And honestly, I'm ashamed for you.

Choosing to serve is a very personal, weighty decision--you should understand that. And yet, you don't allow 'no' as an answer, even when it comes from the Lord, even when that girl you've unceremoniously scratched off of your dating list spent months on her knees begging to go and still got that 'no' as an answer. That is between her and the Lord, and when you reject her for it, in a way, you're also rejecting the Lord's will. I can't imagine that Heavenly Father is too pleased about it.

It would be remiss of me to not mention that serving a mission is a Priesthood responsibility. Some fulfill it, some do not, but all are still deserving of our love and consideration, still deserving of friends and neighbors who will see their present rather than choosing to focus on their past. That aside, a full-time mission has never been asked of the sisters. Never. So why, then, are you demanding it from the girls you date? Why are your standards so much higher than the Lord's? And why do you think that only a mission can make the ideal woman? A mission alone has never made the ideal man, and I've seen plenty of girls who come home having not changed at all while their friends who stay at home become spiritual giants. Life is not as black and white as you think it is.

Truthfully, I would never trade the last year and a half of my life for a mission. I know the Lord wanted me to continue my education and hold the calling I did. Why? Because the girl who came out of that experience is so much better than the girl who went into it, and many of the growth opportunities I had would never have been presented to me on a mission. Sure. Sometimes I don't want to do what Heavenly Father asks, but I try my best to do it anyway. And if He asks me to not serve a mission, I know there's a reason and I listen. So do thousands of girls who want to serve but are told no. So do thousands of girls who choose not to serve. They listen. Are you really going to rule out a woman who puts her life in the hands of her Heavenly Father and does everything He asks of her, even if it hurts, even if it's not what she wants to do? The fact of the matter is that she's probably on a much higher 'spiritual level' than you assume she is, and it's really your loss.

There are a lot of us sisters. Some are older and settled in life and asked constantly why they aren't married or serving. Others are younger and watching their friends serve and wondering when they'll have their turn. All of us are trying. We might not understand mission terminology like you do. We might not know what it's like to have a family we're teaching reject the gospel or what it's like to be missionary trainers or zone leaders. But we are great women, too, and when you overlook one of us, no matter who we are, you overlook a daughter of God, and in many instances, a daughter of God who is doing everything right.

Don't allow our lack of a badge to scare you away from dating us. Most of us can preach and teach and work just as hard as missionaries do.
http://www.igobyari.com/2015/01/to-guys ... -from.html

Lizzy60 wrote:It's probably a blessing that young men who are so judgemental that they won't consider dating a woman who has not served a formal mission are doing what they are doing. A marriage to someone that judgemental and close-minded would be a very difficult one. There is no way that a wife could hope to live up to the expectations of someone like that. They are demonstrating a very valid warning sign for every young woman.

Warning signs -- as a temple worker, we watched a young couple come in to get married, and he had forgotten the marriage liscense. This is not unusual, and the remedy took about 15 minutes. It was just a matter of calling the office where it was issued, and having a copy faxed. From the moment the groom said he didn't have it, the temple recorder was reassuring them both that it was not a big deal, no worries. However, the bride wasn't having any of that. She was angry! She railed on her groom for being so careless and so dumb to forget something so important of the biggest day of her life. This went on and on. After they were dressed in their clothes in which to be married, they were allowed to sit in the Celestial Room to wait for the wedding guests to be assembled. She continued to chastize this poor young man while in the Celestial Room. He was down on bended knee, begging her to forgive him, and to please not call off the wedding.

Several of us temple workers were nearby (as we are supposed to be, in the Celestial Room) and we really wanted to warn him what he was getting himself into. What happens when something really tragic happens in their lives, as it surely will?

These young men who won't date anyone but an RM will get what they deserve perhaps -- as wife as self-righteous as he is.

Darren wrote:I wish that members of the church would live by the the gospel of loving one another, being positive towards and building up one another, rather than pointing the finger from the great and spacious building of Mormon Culture. True Culture is about being positive about positive things, finding a way to lift and serve each other.

Regardless of whether a person has or hasn’t served a mission, regardless of whether a person has or hasn’t come home early from a mission, regardless of whether a person has made mistakes before, after, during a mission or any other time in their life! WE SHOULD LOVE ONE ANOTHER and leave a person to work out his or her salvation by following the true light on their personal path.

So many people in our church get caught up in the newest culture fads, based on nothing but a herd mentality, such as getting every young man to "embark" immediately on a full-time mission as soon as he has his 18th birthday, and pressuring every young women to focus and obsess on the opportunity of embarking on a full-time mission as soon as they turn 19 at the expense of finding their true roll and mission in their lives.

WarMonger wrote:The reality is that the majority of sisters in the church will have to accept the fact that marriage is an unlikely option. In our ward we have like +6 YSA female that are active and not one YSA male. My Bishop has told me numerous times that the problem is all the men watch porn,married, single youth the whole lot of them, to protect the sisters I would recommend they stay single and go on mission, and make there own life. Outside of the church the majority of people don't get married anymore. Blaming lack of potential partners on not serving a mission is misguided frustration, there is a much bigger underlying problem.

Woman want equal rights and equal pay etc - good I agree with it, but with that comes equal treatment. All the years most woman have refused to marry men that did not serve missions - it is now payback - revenge is sweet, big humbling is coming to the sisters in Zion (read the relevant chapters in Isaiah - it is already starting 7:1.)

Sister Missionary Leaves 16 Letters Behind for Her Boyfriend

When one young woman left on an 18-month mission, she left behind more than her boyfriend: she also left 16 letters for her sweetheart to open during their time apart.

...each have specific "open when" instructions. Some are for specific times, like "Open on your 18th birthday" and "Open when you start college," while others are for specific trials, such as "Open when you feel like crying" and "Open when you need peace."

Bustle.com writer Lucia Peters calls this "one of the sweetest things I’ve ever seen." She adds, "A lot of thought, effort, and time clearly went into the project, and almost more important than the letters themselves is what they represent: They’re a way to be there during the big moments when you can’t actually be there. And that? That’s a lesson we could all take to heart."

Casimiro replied ... My girlfriend and I have been together for two years and we've spent a lot of time talking about the future. We're in it for the long-run. I'm confident this is the correct path."

http://www.ldsliving.com/story/78307-si ... the-church

WarMonger wrote:What better way to do member missionary work than being trained on a one year full time mission. One year mission will have no negative impact on fertility rate. I think the opposite is true that sister returning from mission are more likely to get married and have children.

Darren wrote:

To the Guys Who Will Only Date RMs, From a Girl Who Isn't One

Almost three years ago, my life changed entirely when President Monson announced the lowering of the mission age for girls and I chose not to serve. [and so on]

Darren wrote:Its about the Culture. And how that Culture is different than True Culture.

Sister Missionary Leaves 16 Letters Behind for Her Boyfriend

When one young woman left on an 18-month mission, she left behind more than her boyfriend: she also left 16 letters for her sweetheart to open during their time apart.

...each have specific "open when" instructions. Some are for specific times, like "Open on your 18th birthday" and "Open when you start college," while others are for specific trials, such as "Open when you feel like crying" and "Open when you need peace."

Bustle.com writer Lucia Peters calls this "one of the sweetest things I’ve ever seen."

Is serving a full-time mission now more important than marriage for a young woman? Is that what we are trying to tell the Young Women with this article?

God Bless,
Darren

Lizzy60 wrote:It's probably a blessing that young men who are so judgemental that they won't consider dating a woman who has not served a formal mission are doing what they are doing. A marriage to someone that judgemental and close-minded would be a very difficult one. There is no way that a wife could hope to live up to the expectations of someone like that. They are demonstrating a very valid warning sign for every young woman.

russdm wrote:I see nothing wrong with sisters going missions, as long as they are free to make that choice based on their actual desire to serve rather than peer pressure. The commitment to serve should be choice to make, not something someone pressures you over.

russdm wrote:I see nothing wrong with sisters going missions...

E. coli infection kills 19 year old LDS sister missionary in Argentina



Brittany Scadlock, 19, of West Haven, Utah, died Wednesday of complications from the E. coli bacteria while serving a mission in Argentina for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

"Brittany was a ray of sunshine," Kally Scadlock said. "She has the softest heart and loves everyone. That sounds ... I'm not trying to sound any more than she really is. She truly was the best person you could ever imagine. She was a light, and everywhere she went she left light."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865 ... urn false;

EXCLUSIVE: Family of LDS missionary Brittany Scadlock shares how much she loved her mission in Argentina

(KUTV) "I didn't think I'd come but it has changed our lives forever," said Brittany Scadlock, an LDS missionary who died in Argentina this week.

The Scadlocks, home in West Haven Friday, say they are now comforted by recent conversations with their daughter, who expressed how happy she was to be serving a mission in Argentina.

In a home video shown to 2News, Brittany says, "I am so happy here. I wasn't going to come, but I am so glad I did."

Terry Scadlock says his daughter struggled with the decision to serve a mission, after already being away from home a year in college playing soccer for Western Nebraska Community College.

"Through prayer, general authorities' talks and her own struggles, she came to the decision to go... and I am glad she did," Terry said.

http://www.kutv.com/news/features/local ... QS3447W06E

russdm wrote:If ordinances are an issue, then perhaps individuals could be appointed to perform them. The Prophets did not say that every women must serve a mission, but they are free to choose to do so if they are committed and it is what the Lord wishes for them.

There have been sister missionaries before this so how the ordinances get performed should be an issue now suddenly.

I think women that on missions earlier that are truly committed to serving the Lord will be committed to getting married. A mission for the women is a 1-2 year only and with going at 19 they will be able to both go and get married if that is what they and God wish. When it was 21 for women, they had to choose serving later by delaying getting married in order to go or marrying and going on a couple's mission when they were considerably older. This change doesn't hurt except the fact they are getting pressured into going.

The pressure given to force people to serve who the Lord has not called means some go and end up failing because it wasn't their calling. Serving a mission has become check-box to be checked rather than something that is committed to by the person. It has become a tradition instead of a choice.

When did sister missionaries first begin to serve full-time missions?