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Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 27th, 2013, 1:44 pm
by Darren
AussieOi wrote:I admire your ability to stay sane in all this.

I don't know how I'll make it 6 more months
:)
In a darkened place all you need is the faintest glimmer to focus on, and that becomes a destination. And find joy in the journey.

I believe that Viking Girls could be shown to be better role models for young women in the Church than Sisters Missionaries.
And the hats really begin to grow on you:
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And for the Primary kids as well,
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Maybe it is time to restore a connection to our legacy, lost tribes of Israel version of The Stripling Warriors.

Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 27th, 2013, 8:55 pm
by Darren
SouthernMormon wrote:I do wonder about whether, as an earlier poster noted, the Church is wanting young men and women to serve missions before college damages their faith. I too am skeptical about all of the purported benefits of college / university, at least for most people, and especially women...
When the Nordic Crusaders took the trade routes and Empire away from the Emperor, and he had to flee to Constantinople, the Crusaders discovered that a copy of the Edicts that run the Empire had been left behind in Pisa, Italy. The Nordic Crusaders took those Edicts to run the Empire, called the Corpus Juris Civilis, and set up a place to study them at Bologna, Italy. That place became the World's First University and a place to study the Catholic Assembly's Canceleria, where the Empire continued its operation in stealth mode, as the Nuns and Monks continued the practice of collected the fines to continue the empire way to run the economy, so too universities today promote the young men and young women bachelors to remain servants of the State, through the collection of those fines in exchange for privileges in the State, for the perpetuation of the State.

The University is the place to study the top down Empire way to Run things by the Satanically directed expression from Socrates that, "virtue cannot be taught" and that the best Babblers/Dictators are the next best thing to not having any revelation or apostles.

When the Nordic Crusaders went back home to the North, their kin asked them about that world's first university being set up at Bologna, Italy, as a place to study the non-sense of the Empire. These Nordic Crusaders told their kin that at that university they study the deductive method of learning everything about everything before a youth can do some thing or another.

The kin of the Nordic Crusaders said that way to learn at Bologna was just backward to how the kin of the North did things, as a Nordic Youth would first find his calling in life, discovering the thing to do in life with the help of the Holy Ghost (revelation), and then join a guild as an apprentice.

They then said, that this way to learn at Bologna was a lot like how they made their large sausage, as they would take everything of everything from the butchered animals and grind that up into that large sausage.

So from that day until today comes the expression, about the way things are done and learned at the university, "That is a bunch of Bologna."

Nordics learned by revelation, not primarily by deduction, not at Greco-Roman Universities, but by seeking the face of the Lord in all that they did.

So if you go to BYU and get one of those magic pieces of paper (diploma), you are full of Bologna/Baloney.

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God Bless,
Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 12:12 am
by gkearney
Darren;

You bang the nordic drum rather hard. What do you make however of the steady transition of the population of the church away from that nordic culture you hold so dear? In not too many more years, if it has not already happened, the majority of the church membership will have no historic, cultural or ancestral connections to nordic or germanic heritage. Indeed the current leadership has not spoken of this matter in any fashion that I can find. We move, with each passing year, further from that heritage to to one of a multi-cultural faith.

From what I observe it is not the church or it's leaders that are promoting that young women serve missions, it is, in fact, the young women themselves that are doing so. Were once the age was set at 21, done at a time when the average age of first marriage in the U.S. was under 21, now church leaders have set it to 19. Surely they knew, or should have known what the result of such an action would be.

The simple fact of the matter is that almost no 18-19 year old young women have any prospects of marriage. None. While you talk a great deal about the old nordic way of doing things that really is not an option for these young women. Husbands are not going to just materialise out of thin air just because you wish them to.

The facts of the matter is that we live in an increasing diverse world and Church. The old white, northern European church of my youth is passing away. This is a fact that impacts not only this discussion but others here as well in particular the one on race. I see in the posts a number of people who clearly are unable to make the transition to this new reality of the church and it's membership. They long, as you seem to, to return to some older more comfortable time where everything was so much clearer and where shades of grey were not presented. But that world, if it ever existed, slips ever further into the past soon to be lost forever to the mists of time much as your much beloved nordic culture has.

I have the feeling that some here, not you in particular, will at some point reach a breaking point with the church and it's leaders. At some point some change will come to the church which they will not be able to abide. I do not know what that will be but I see many here teetering on the edge of the abyss. You can see it in this thread, in the race thread and in the gays and scouts threads. Change is like the time and tide however, there is nothing you can do to stop it, it will sweep aside all who stand before it.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 12:30 am
by overseas
gkearney

+10

Our ward will receive sister missionaries this month. We (all membership) are so happy about this news. They will be a blessing for our unit.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 9:23 am
by Darren
gkearney wrote:Darren;

You bang the nordic drum rather hard. What do you make however of the steady transition of the population of the church away from that nordic culture you hold so dear? In not too many more years, if it has not already happened, the majority of the church membership will have no historic, cultural or ancestral connections to nordic or germanic heritage. Indeed the current leadership has not spoken of this matter in any fashion that I can find. We move, with each passing year, further from that heritage to to one of a multi-cultural faith.

From what I observe it is not the church or it's leaders that are promoting that young women serve missions, it is, in fact, the young women themselves that are doing so. Were once the age was set at 21, done at a time when the average age of first marriage in the U.S. was under 21, now church leaders have set it to 19. Surely they knew, or should have known what the result of such an action would be.

The simple fact of the matter is that almost no 18-19 year old young women have any prospects of marriage. None. While you talk a great deal about the old nordic way of doing things that really is not an option for these young women. Husbands are not going to just materialise out of thin air just because you wish them to.

The facts of the matter is that we live in an increasing diverse world and Church. The old white, northern European church of my youth is passing away. This is a fact that impacts not only this discussion but others here as well in particular the one on race. I see in the posts a number of people who clearly are unable to make the transition to this new reality of the church and it's membership. They long, as you seem to, to return to some older more comfortable time where everything was so much clearer and where shades of grey were not presented. But that world, if it ever existed, slips ever further into the past soon to be lost forever to the mists of time much as your much beloved nordic culture has.

I have the feeling that some here, not you in particular, will at some point reach a breaking point with the church and it's leaders. At some point some change will come to the church which they will not be able to abide. I do not know what that will be but I see many here teetering on the edge of the abyss. You can see it in this thread, in the race thread and in the gays and scouts threads. Change is like the time and tide however, there is nothing you can do to stop it, it will sweep aside all who stand before it.
Your observations are true!

8 years ago I was a "Constitutionalist" and had little to no understanding about the Nordic Link. Look at my old web site still available on the Internet Archive http://web.archive.org/web/200305270932 ... .utah.edu/, none of the Nordic stuff was there. I used to be in the camp with most of the Cleon Skousen types lingering around this forum.

It wasn't until I started working with my linguist friend that I began to come into the information and books that do a very good job showing the culture link that Cleon Skousen was going to develop upon for his book, "The Fifth-thousand Years" that he never wrote and instead, because of Dark Ages propaganda, had to compromise and write, "The Majesty of God's Law." That "missing link" information is what I am in possession of thanks to my linguist friend and is the best comprehensive road map of how to build on Thomas Jefferson's vision for our country, as mentioned in Cleon Skousen's book. I firmly believe that this Nordic Link information, culture, is foundational to saving our Constitution as Joseph Smith prophesied.

And just as being a "Constitutionalist" in the Church is all but a dying way of thinking. The understanding of The Nordic Way is virtually dead among our people.

Is Nordic, Patriarchal Law Culture something that can or should be revived? Only time will tell, and of course The Cleansing factors into that as well as also the future events of the Conference at Adam-ondi-Ahman, wherein a restoration of true culture gets reestablished to emanate from Independence Missouri, Zion.

For me and a few people in my camp, it is all about being the best examples we can be, of such things, for the time being.

Photo of Odin from 1937 and 1942 LDS Church lesson manuals:
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http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/02/15/b ... israelism/
British Israelism
February 15, 2006 By Stirling

In some ways, Joseph and the early Saints set about restoring, not just the practices of early Christianity, but also of ancient Israel. As such, they/we were both Christian and Old Testament “primitivists,” seeking to restore the primitive, and presumably superior, institutions of a previous culture.

Since much of the bible is the story of the relationship of one tribe, ”the Israelites”with God, the primitivist Mormons were intensely interested in that tribe. They prepared for the “literal gathering of Israel,” the Book of Mormon identified a new world people as Israelites, and the European Saints, though non-Israelite “Gentiles,” considered themselves to be spiritually of Israel, or to be of Israel through adoption.

But many Saints came to view themselves as literally of Israel; they believed they were genetically descended from Israel (through Ephraim). The Mormon tendency towards a literal “Israelism” seems to have played out over time. First the Smith family was identified as literal descendants of Israel. Later, as Brigham Young was describing Joseph Smith as a “pure Ephraimite,” many Mormons began to assume that all or almost all of the Saints were Israelites. Mauss and Green show this trend was strengthened in the latter 19th and early 20th centuries as the Saints were influenced by the Protestant religious movement of “Anglo” or “British Israelism.”

Anglo Israelism was the belief that the peoples of Northern European nations were descended principally from the “lost” tribes of Israel who migrated there after Assyria conquered Israel in 877 B.C. British Israelism was a variant on the theme that viewed the British Isles as being populated principally by descendants of the favored tribe of Ephraim.

Did we Mormons become adherents of Anglo Israelism / British Israelism? I suggest that we didn’t formally adopt the belief as official doctrine/theology. But, for a few decades we repeated and extended the claims of British Israelism in sufficient numbers of church-published books, magazines, lesson texts, and sermons, that it could appear we certainly had accepted British Israelism.

After giving some examples below of Mormons preaching British Israelism in the previous century, the questions I’m going to get to are:

1. When was the last time (if ever) you heard British Israelism passed around within Mormonism as a valid concept?

2. I think our literal Israelism is fading, and that as a church we are taking a more allegorical/symbolic/spiritual view of “Abrahamic lineage.” Do you have counterexamples or related anecdotes? Do you disagree?

A quick and incomplete primer on the history of British Israelism:
We Mormons weren’t unique in creating for ourselves a literal Israelite heritage that had a distinctly English air. Other contemporaneous Christian groups had done the same, including the Christian Israelites in England (ca. 1822), Nathaniel Wood and the New Israelites of Middletown, Vermont (ca: 1800), and the followers of London-based Richard Brothers, who in 1794 pronounced himself the “Prince and Prophet of the Hebrews.”

The most prominent early book that preached British Israelism was John Wilson’s 1840 Lectures on Our Israelitish Origin.

By the 1870s, British Israelism had become a formal movement among protestant Christians, complete with societies, chapters, and monthly magazines in both England and the U.S. Many Mormons who had already come to view themselves as Israelites were receptive to the movement. In the 1870s George Reynolds published a series of articles in the Millennial Star that promoted British Israelism using arguments and quotes from the prominent B-I writers of the day, including John Wilson, A. B. Grimaldi, and Charles Smyth. In 1883 George Reynolds published his Israelism writings in a book, Are We of Israel? Reynolds became one of the 7 presidents of the 70 in 1890, and the book went through at least 7 editions; the 1916 edition was published as a class text by the Church’s Deseret Sunday School Union; the last edition was published in 1952 by the church-owned Deseret News Press.

But that was just the first Mormon British Israel work. There were dozens that followed. The high point of excitement for British Israelism within Mormonism seems to have been the middle 1920s through the 1930s, and into the first part, at least, of the 1940s. This follows just a few years after the high point of British Israelism in England, and it roughly matches the timeline of an international interest in lineage and racial “purity.” A few of many examples are found in Mexico (ejecting the Chinese), the United States (think of our immigration laws, our eugenics movement, the racial purity laws), and with hindsight, most strikingly, Germany.

If you grew up Mormon in the first half of the 20th century, you were likely to be taught over and over–in Sunday School, genealogy, and priesthood lessons, in stake and general conferences, in church magazines, books, and pamphlets–that you were literally an Israelite, directly descended from Ephraim. This teaching would come in at least two forms:

1. The teaching one might call “Mormon Israelism” was that Ephraim’s descendants were scattered among all nations, but that almost all Mormons were Ephraimites (for some, even “pure” Ephraimites) because the people that had responded to the missionary message were the select few with Israel in their veins. It was taught (including by Joseph Smith) and assumed by some that the more pure the Israelite blood, the more open a person was to the Mormon message.

2. Somewhat in conflict with this, you would also have been taught Mormon Anglo or British Israelism: that almost all Mormons were Israelites (and to some, pure Israelites), because the Saints were of Northern European stock (largely British), which was the place the not-so-lost tribes (mainly Ephraim) had settled.

In the 20th century, the main church leaders and authors who preached Israelism and British Israelism were Church Historian and Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith, apostle and First Presidency member Anthony Ivins, Asst. Church Historian Andrew Jenson, and officers of the Utah Genealogical Society such as Archibald Bennett and James Anderson.

In dozens of articles, books, and general conference talks, these men played a significant role in teaching a couple of generations of Saints that they were literal descendants of Israel, with detailed proofs that the not-so-lost ten tribes had settled either Northern Europe or Great Britain taken directly from the prominent British-Israel works. Anderson, in God’s Covenant Race, From Patriarchal Times to the Present, a 1937 book published by the Deseret News Press, even claimed (incorrectly) Mormon credit for starting the British-Israel Movement through the church’s 1830s missionary work in England (154-155). The 1938 and later editions of the book included an appendix with 127 pages of articles copied verbatim from the “Anglo-Israel Federation” magazine Destiny.

One collection of Mormon British-Israelism teachings was the 1942 Sunday School course book, Birthright Blessings; its 48 lessons included topics such as “The Chosen Race Being Gathered,” “Early Israelite Colonies,” “Mound Builders of Europe,” “Sagas and Civilization of Scandinavia,” “Who Are the Anglo-Saxons?,” “Early Welsh Customs,” ” Ancient Irish Pedigrees,” and “The Royal House of David.”

A very similar collection was the 1937 Junior Genealogy Class manual, Children of the Covenant. Its 40 lessons covered most of the Birthright topics mentioned and others such as “A White and a Blessed People,” “The Day of Ephraim,” and “The New Race of Israel.” The activity for one of the lessons instructed students to “Write a one page explanation, and read it in class or in a public meeting, of the topic: “My Heritage as a Descendant of Ephraim.”

Articles preaching British Israelism and Mormon Israelism were also common in the quarterly journal of the Church’s Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine.

Examples of this were the paired 1930 articles, “Mission of Ephraim,” by Joseph Fielding Smith, and “Children of Ephraim,” by Archibald Bennett.

The latter even contained a detailed explanation and ancestral charts explaining how the Norse God Odin (Woden) was ancestor of “most of the kingly and noble races of the north,” and therefore, of Anglo-Saxons and Mormons. Consequently, you can find Mormon family trees from that period that include both Odin and Thor (there’s a current example of this in my extended family). Odin is also discussed in detail in the Birthright Blessings and Children of the Covenant manuals, in a lesson called Sagas and Civilization of Scandinavia that recounts Icelander Snorri Sturluson’s Ynglinga Saga. Both books included a photo of a B.E.F. Fogelberg’s statute of Odin (the graphic at the top of this post).
Returning to the questions:

1. I think our literal Israelism (the belief that most Mormons are genetic descendants of Israel, particularly Ephraim or Manasssah) is fading, and that as a church we are taking a more allegorical/symbolic/spiritual view of “Abrahamic lineage.” Do you have counterexamples or related anecdotes? Do you disagree?

2. When was the last time (if ever) you heard British Israelism passed around within Mormonism as a valid concept?

Stirling Adams
Cleon Skousen's "Freeman Institute" was initially set us as a place of discovery of culture from things like the Mormon Israelism Movement.

Hence I promote the image of a modern Freeman getting in touch with his ancestral heritage.
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God Bless,
Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 5:59 pm
by gkearney
Darren;

Somehow I just don't see how wearing knit versions of Hägar the Horrible hats is going to help in this. The fundamental issue you face is not one of head fashions it's one of a changing church. We are no longer made up of people of white northern Europeans heritage. With every passing year we, as a church, move further from that heritage. The fastest growth of the church today in in sub-Saharan Africa. These members clearly have no cultural or cultural connections to Anglo Israelism which has not been spoken of in the church for over 60 years. We, the church, are just no longer the small, white, Anglo-Saxon/Germanic group we once were when those manuals were written. Times and the church have forever changed.

So the question remains how does your view of the church fit into the modern world view of the church as it exists today and as it will exist into the future. This question is not going be be answered by the dwindling number of members of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic heritage running about in knit hat with horns.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 6:36 pm
by Darren
gkearney wrote:Darren;

Somehow I just don't see how wearing knit versions of Hägar the Horrible hats is going to help in this. The fundamental issue you face is not one of head fashions it's one of a changing church. We are no longer made up of people of white northern Europeans heritage. With every passing year we, as a church, move further from that heritage. The fastest growth of the church today in in sub-Saharan Africa. These members clearly have no cultural or cultural connections to Anglo Israelism which has not been spoken of in the church for over 60 years. We, the church, are just no longer the small, white, Anglo-Saxon/Germanic group we once were when those manuals were written. Times and the church have forever changed.

So the question remains how does your view of the church fit into the modern world view of the church as it exists today and as it will exist into the future. This question is not going be be answered by the dwindling number of members of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic heritage running about in knit hat with horns.
Your right, Cleon Skousen was not handing out knit hats with horns at the Freeman Institute meetings, but he was trying to give them the culture that he attempted to describe in his book, "The Majesty of God's Law." The hats are a bonus that I just started handing out.

One application of Nordic Culture that has continued today is Company Living. And the way to get us back to true culture is to tell all employees of and company owners that True Company Living (a legacy from our Nordic ancestors) can only happen when the company is "employee owned."

Out here in Missouri the big super-market chain is Hy-Vee, begun in the 20s by a couple of RLDS guys. And the thing they did right was to put the company into the hands of the employees, and from then until today if you work at Hy-Vee you are one of the owners. Same for Harmon's KFC in Utah, employee owned.

So here is a plan, lets have all Mormon owned companies apply this principle, and there you have it, one step closer to this culture of our Nordic ancestors. Then begin to perpetuate that principle into the overall American Culture.

I do believe that these Nordic Culture things cannot come from the top-down in our Church, for IRS reasons, etc. But to do this and other Nordic things, tweaking Babylon out of our culture, with the reintroduction of true principles is the place to start, a new better Freeman Institute.

Deuteronomy styled, Patriarchal Law Culture is Company Living and is the big thing, if we are going to grasp the legacy of our Nordic ancestors, that will get our people working together outside of Babylon's ways.

Ditching the hats with the horns is ok with me, but it could be a marketing tool if done right.

And sisters serving missions is all too Babylon Culture once you see the two cultures side by side.

God Bless,
Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 6:56 pm
by SouthernMormon
It is true that many non-whites are joining the Church. I do not see this as bad, on the contrary it is good. But this does not really make the church "multi-cultural" anymore then the British Empire conquering much of India and Africa made it "multi-cultural". "Multi-culturalism" is much more a mindset and ideology then it is simply consisting of persons with many different ethnic groups. In any case, as I said earlier, all 12 apostles are Nordic ancestrally. The First Presidency is as well. Of the 70, almost all are Nordic. Of tithing money, how much comes from white vs. non-white members? The church is not and can not be an egalitarian democracy, because egalitarian democracies self-destruct if they can not leach off of more productive societies and institutions. Furthermore, the base of the Church is still America - intellectually and financially. This is like the silliness in the liberal media that the new Pope was going to be African because there were so many Africans in the Roman Catholic Church. True, the new Pope was from Latin America - but an ethnic N. Italian from Argentina, the least RC nation in South America. The Church is changing, true, but if it changes in an immoral manner, it will be cleansed.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 28th, 2013, 7:48 pm
by gkearney
Darren wrote:
gkearney wrote:Darren;

Somehow I just don't see how wearing knit versions of Hägar the Horrible hats is going to help in this. The fundamental issue you face is not one of head fashions it's one of a changing church. We are no longer made up of people of white northern Europeans heritage. With every passing year we, as a church, move further from that heritage. The fastest growth of the church today in in sub-Saharan Africa. These members clearly have no cultural or cultural connections to Anglo Israelism which has not been spoken of in the church for over 60 years. We, the church, are just no longer the small, white, Anglo-Saxon/Germanic group we once were when those manuals were written. Times and the church have forever changed.

So the question remains how does your view of the church fit into the modern world view of the church as it exists today and as it will exist into the future. This question is not going be be answered by the dwindling number of members of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic heritage running about in knit hat with horns.
Your right, Cleon Skousen was not handing out knit hats with horns at the Freeman Institute meetings, but he was trying to give them the culture that he attempted to describe in his book, "The Majesty of God's Law." The hats are a bonus that I just started handing out.

One application of Nordic Culture that has continued today is Company Living. And the way to get us back to true culture is to tell all employees of and company owners that True Company Living (a legacy from our Nordic ancestors) can only happen when the company is "employee owned."

Out here in Missouri the big super-market chain is Hy-Vee, begun in the 20s by a couple of RLDS guys. And the thing they did right was to put the company into the hands of the employees, and from then until today if you work at Hy-Vee you are one of the owners. Same for Harmon's KFC in Utah, employee owned.

So here is a plan, lets have all Mormon owned companies apply this principle, and there you have it, one step closer to this culture of our Nordic ancestors. Then begin to perpetuate that principle into the overall American Culture.

I do believe that these Nordic Culture things cannot come from the top-down in our Church, for IRS reasons, etc. But to do this and other Nordic things, tweaking Babylon out of our culture, with the reintroduction of true principles is the place to start, a new better Freeman Institute.

Deuteronomy styled, Patriarchal Law Culture is Company Living and is the big thing, if we are going to grasp the legacy of our Nordic ancestors, that will get our people working together outside of Babylon's ways.

Ditching the hats with the horns is ok with me, but it could be a marketing tool if done right.

And sisters serving missions is all too Babylon Culture once you see the two cultures side by side.

God Bless,
Darren

Well this will come as a shock to many readers here but on the matter of employee owned companies Darren and I are in complete agreement. I would fully endorse such a method be it from Nordic or other sources I could care less. Many aspect of Nordic culture I do find attractive having lived in Sweden for a time. In particularly I like the idea of allemansrätten, or every man's right.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 30th, 2013, 9:16 am
by Darren
According to KSL Channel 5 in Salt Lake City, "The signs of change. First round of missionaries report to temporary MTC at Wyview." and reportedly the new mix of Sister Missionaries to Elders is a ratio of about 52 percent Sister Missionaries to 48 percent Elders.
http://kslcrm.bonnint.net/?sid=25381409 ... id=queue-3
The proportion of sister missionaries in missions is increasing rapidly. One day they will outnumber the men because it is becoming the norm for women to go and there are many more active females to draw from.
The Missionary Mix is Evolving
when the Presidency announced the age change to 18 for Elders they also let loose with an even bigger announcement. Sisters. Sisters were allowed to leave at 19 instead of 21. We knew this change would be big, but we really didn't know how big until recent reports said that for the first time in church history, the number of Sister missionaries in the Missionary Training Center in Provo were outnumbering the number of Elders. That's huge.
The arriving sister missionaries far outnumbered the arriving Elders.
Lately, I've been wondering how the landscape of the church might look in a few years due to the influx of sister missionaries. I think this influx will have an impact on the already widening gender gap in the church. It's been my experience that there are, at least, more active women than men. Women outnumber men obtaining master's degrees by more than 30 percent.
These trends are a little discomforting to me. This can't be good for LDS families. Are most women going to be the primary breadwinners in the typical family in a few years? What can be done to reverse these trends and encourage young men to pursue their educations and stay in the church? Will it be the norm for many LDS women to not be able to marry in the faith, due to the gender gap?
Something really cool that they announced at this training is that last week, more sister missionaries reported to the MTC than elders for the first time ever. How crazy is that?? Another cool thing is that due to the increase in sister missionaries they are training "leadership sisters" who will be kind of like district leaders/ zone leaders for the sisters near their areas.
Culture is a choice.
God Bless,
Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 30th, 2013, 5:09 pm
by gkearney
Darren and others

The elephant in the room that no one wants to speak of is the question of where the trends will take us over time. I can see that this may well result in women's ordination to the priesthood. While I personally would have no issue with that I assume for many here such a turn of events would be the thing which would drive them over the edge of the abyss I spoke of in an earier post.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: May 31st, 2013, 10:03 am
by Darren
gkearney wrote:Darren and others

The elephant in the room that no one wants to speak of is the question of where the trends will take us over time. I can see that this may well result in women's ordination to the priesthood. While I personally would have no issue with that I assume for many here such a turn of events would be the thing which would drive them over the edge of the abyss I spoke of in an earier post.
These changes are taking on a life of their own, and what happens when you leave the barn door open with the advancing cultural tide.
http://universe.byu.edu/beta/2013/05/28 ... -to-serve/
Sisters to serve
May 28, 2013.

The recent change in mission age has certainly increased the number of sister missionaries called to serve. Before the change, less than one-fifth of the 58,000 missionaries were sisters. We certainly expect that number to change very soon! However, not all young women have responded to the call to serve. I propose that all worthy, able young women should serve a full-time mission.

I understand how difficult the decision must be for young women to serve a mission. There simply isn’t the same pressure for young women to serve as there is for young men. And besides, according to Church leaders, a woman’s most important role in life is eternal marriage and child-rearing. However, the blessings of serving a mission will forever play into every aspect of your life, which it certainly did for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dOxl9voEMg

May 28, 2013
Soon-to-be sister missionaries for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We opened our mission calls on the same day, went through the temple on the same day, had our farewells on the same day, and now it's time to go serve The Lord for the same purpose.
God Bless,
Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 1:07 am
by AussieOi
Well, its all happening now.

Big meeting next month, you'll all be watching.
perhaps a new revelation?

Or just members leaned on to house and feed all these new sisters.

90,000 missionaries next year, peaking at 110 a year later.

or perhaps they know they can't have all these 19 yr old girls and 18 year old boys out on the streets like they presently are? Maybe 2 weeks observing these children I'm the MTC and they went "ummm, Houston, we have a problem".

BIg shakeup for missions coming?

Humanitarian only for first year? Maybe daylight hours only?

You know, they didn't think this through and now theres too many people to tract and be in ward's.

Perhaps we will embrace the 4th mission of the church we allegedly discovered a few years back.

Got a spare room at home?

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 2:46 am
by gkearney
I find it almost unbelievable the the senior church leadership did not understand the consequences of the change in age particuly for the young women. The church has in it employ professional demographers who, I am sure, would have told them what would take place. Now the long term consequences are less clear.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 5:14 am
by overseas
Well, this is how I see this new change. Church leadership form Westerm Europe have informed us (membership) that very difficult times come to this part of the world, and that there will be many conversions and baptims in our church. Right now we are about 45,000-50,000 lds members in a 45,000,000 inhabitants country. The ratio is about 0,001%. ? (I know, very little) So, the field is big enough to work.
I have confess that this matter requires a lot of faith from my part to believe in such a big change, because as far a I've been a member, I haven't seen much growth in our units, but there are the promisses, and we need to work on them.
Our leaders told us that they are trying to shorthen these difficult times and all help is welcome. Two weeks ago we were informed that we will have sister missionaries in our ward. Many young women are excited to serve a mission. I see this as part of a big change that is needed.

I would like to ask is there is any others saints from Europe or another parts of the world that have been told something similar to this information in their own countries.

I believe Press. Monson and the first pressidency are inspired men, and they know all about these mission rules changes and their long term consequences will bring
.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 5:57 am
by aigerim
Overseas - I haven't heard of any direct dire warnings, (other than scriptures, etc.), for us here specifically in Europe. At least, not in my ward. What did you hear? I'd be very interested! Please post where this information might be found or who said it. I did hear we will be receiving sister missionaries soon. I'm so excited - can't wait. We've never had sister missionaries. This will be a great example for my teenage daughter. :)

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 8:46 am
by SouthernMormon
Women will never be ordained to the priesthood. I agree, if trends continued this would occur - but trends will not continue much longer. They can not. Evil self-destructs.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 3:18 pm
by Darren
SouthernMormon wrote:Women will never be ordained to the priesthood. I agree, if trends continued this would occur - but trends will not continue much longer. They can not. Evil self-destructs.
The Cleansing is ever so much closer.

The new trend in the Church, Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage.
Michelle Romney ... I left my fiancee for a mission. I am so happy I did! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9R-187i50Q

This song coming soon to itunes!

ANS (Alone n' Single) is a band based out of Logan, Utah. The band members include Kyle Naylor, Eric Williams, Brad Dutson, and David Cline. We like to party! Our first single "She's Goin' On A Mission" has just been released with this music video!

Biography

ANS came together shortly after 2012's fall session of the LDS church's General Conference. At this conference, it was announced that the age for eligible mission service had been lowered considerably (especially for girls). A couple of band members and other friends of the band (roomates - like Eddy Morris) were "dumped" by girls that decided to serve missions.

This has become a very common trend recently, and Mormon girls everywhere (especially in Utah) are leaving dudes heartbroken, devastated, and hopeless.

This heartbreak and bitterness proved to be great inspiration for songwriter Kyle Naylor, who soon wrote a song entitled "She's going on a Mission". The best musicians in the western United States were soon recruited in order to create the band known today as ANS (Alone n' Single). Among these notable musicians is Eric Williams, a world renowned maraca player who recently won the 2012 maraca freestyle world championships. In 2010, Eric was nominated by AMPA (the American Maraca Players Association) to be inducted into the maraca players hall of fame. A full list of the band members can be seen below.

Lead Singer and guitar: Kyle Naylor
Drums: Brad Dutson
Piano: David Cline
Backup vocals and maracas: Eric Williams

After playing live at massive venues including a ward talent show, and even a STAKE talent show, the bands popularity began to skyrocket. Now, as the result of much demand on behalf of fans everywhere, ANS has professionally recorded and produced the song with an accompanying music video.

This song is dedicated to all you poor R.M.'s getting dumped by girls that are leaving to serve missions.
As I watch this one play out.
God Bless,
Darren

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 4:27 pm
by AussieOi
Please don't tell me BYU provide Maraca scholarships.

The square dancing one was nuts, but if...

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 4:46 pm
by AussieOi
gkearney wrote:I find it almost unbelievable the the senior church leadership did not understand the consequences of the change in age particuly for the young women. The church has in it employ professional demographers who, I am sure, would have told them what would take place. Now the long term consequences are less clear.
You're kidding, right?

A life of its own

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 5:26 pm
by gkearney
AussieOi wrote:
gkearney wrote:I find it almost unbelievable the the senior church leadership did not understand the consequences of the change in age particuly for the young women. The church has in it employ professional demographers who, I am sure, would have told them what would take place. Now the long term consequences are less clear.
You're kidding, right?

A life of its own
No I'm not kidding. The first thought that entered my mind on hearing the news was that this would have a modest effect on the number of young men going on missions but would explode the number of young women to the point where they would quickly out number the young men a condition that took less than a year to take place. If I and others without access to detailed demographic data could see this though simple observation then this with advanced knowage of this and with such data access surly told the leadership what results they could expect.

Where this takes us as a faith is another, and less clear, question. As I said some here have set down a marker in women's ordination. Stating that such would never happen. I am unwilling to say such a thing. I think it worth asking yourself this question: if I went to church or conference one Sunday and it was announced that women were to be ordained to the priesthood how would I respond? Don't say you will never have to think of such a situation. That is the approach taken by some who felt that plural marriage would never end, that blacks would never be ordained, or that there could be no changes to the temple endowment. It would be better for you to know in advance how you will deal with change rather than just let it wash over you like a flood.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 6:05 pm
by AussieOi
Changed things before, I am sure they will change again.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 7:44 pm
by Darren
And so it goes ...

Young Women's Program emphasis before, "The Announcement."
Image

Young Women's Program emphasis after, "The Announcement."
Image

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 1st, 2013, 9:54 pm
by firend
Yep, down the ship goes

Quality vs quantity
By the spirit vs trackting
Without purse vs pay your own way ( a corporate dream)
God's rules vs mans rules (light out at such and such)


It used to be missions were awesome. You would go for a period of time you felt to go by God. You would go without purse, you would teach wherever the spirit lead. You would sup with that person as long as you felt to, you were still able to communicate with family because they are part of your motivation, not distraction.

Today, missions time lengths are all uniform. You pay your own way, at least most do (the corporation loves this). You track door to door, and have time limits (gotta move on and get those numbers). You are more or less forbidden to communicate with family most of the time since that is seen as a distraction ( even though the gospel is about what?)

And on and on

Now we have this massive culture shift with additional woman missionaries molded into the thinking it is their duty. The main justification I hear over and over is that woman can get into places men can't. Really? If it was by the spirit God would provide a way. If it is just based on door to door searches (physically speaking of numbers) than that would be true.

God is about few

Corporation and money is about many.

I am so glad the Book of Mormon is getting out there, but in reality only the few who are true saints will be converted. Instead most will be baptized into a culture shifting badly Un-toward God, and they wont even know it because the dark cannot comprehend the light.

Re: Sisters serving missions & forgoing marriage?

Posted: June 2nd, 2013, 3:29 pm
by AussieOi
"You may choose not to go"