Great talk by Pres. Benson

[r0ck$74r15]

Of course, the war in heaven over free agency is now being waged here on earth, and there are those today who are saying "Look, don't get involved in the fight for freedom. Just live the gospel." That counsel is dangerous, self-contradictory, unsound.

The Book of Mormon pays tribute to General Moroni in these words: "And Moroni was a strong and a mighty man; he was a man of perfect understanding, yea, a man that did not delight in bloodshed; a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country, and his brethren from bondage and slavery . . .

"Yea, and he was a man who was firm in the faith of Christ, and he had sworn with an oath to defend his people his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood" (Alma 48:11,13).

And then Moroni is paid this high tribute: "Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men" (Alma 48:17).

Now, part of the reason we may not have sufficient priesthood bearers to save the Constitution let alone to shake the powers of hell, is because unlike Moroni, I fear, our souls do not joy in keeping our country free, and we are not firm in the faith of Christ, nor have we sworn with an oath to defend our rights and the liberty of our country.

Moroni raised a title of liberty and wrote upon it these words: "In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children" (Alma 46:12). Why didn't he write upon it: "Just live your religion; there's no need to concern yourselves about your freedom, your peace, your wives, or your children"? The reason he didn't do this was because all these things were a part of his religion, as they are of our religion today.

Should we counsel people, "Just live your religion. There's no need to get involved in the fight for freedom"? No, we should not, because our stand for freedom is a most basic part of our religion; this stand helped get us to this earth, and our reaction to freedom in this life will have eternal consequences. Man has many duties, but he has no excuse that can compensate for his loss of liberty.

This is just a portion of this great talk that I came across today. Check out the rest of it.

http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1522" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AussieOi]

And he also said this

In spite of the scriptural evidence and the counsel of modern-day prophets during the past more than 100 years, there are still some who seem to feel we have no responsibility to safeguard and strengthen our precious God-given freedom. There are some who apparently feel that the fight for freedom is separate from the gospel. They express it in several ways, but it generally boils down to this: Just live the gospel; there's no need to get involved in trying to save freedom and the Constitution....

Of course, this is dangerous reasoning, because in reality you cannot fully live the gospel without working to save freedom and the Constitution....

In the war in heaven, what would have been your reaction if someone had told you just to do what is right—there's no need to get involved in the fight for freedom?

[uglypitbull]

I apparently missed this post.....thanks for bringing it back to the front Aussie.

[gclayjr]

If I remember Captain Moroni gathered people together in the military to defend the country against enemies both foreigh and domestic, and punished those who were unwilling to serve

I volunteered for the Marines during The Viet Nam war..

How many of you blow hards have done as much to protect the Constitution against enemies both foerign and domestic ?

When you point the accusing finger 3 point back at yourselves.

Semper Fi

George Clay

[gclayjr]

Just in case any of you want to carp about Servng during Viet Nam (I was was never sent in country) as not supportng the Constitution I submt the following fom the Aug 1980 Ensign

"Elder Hinckley visited Vietnam in 1966, 1967, and 1968. He was torn inside by the pain and suffering he observed. But in the midst of the misery, he observed true manhood. In 1966 he said, “No more faithful members are found anywhere in the world than among our servicemen.”

Semper Fi

George Clay

[uglypitbull]

If I remember Captain Moroni gathered people together in the military to defend the country against enemies both foreigh and domestic, and punished those who were unwilling to serve

See the key word there?

[gclayjr]

uglyPitbull...

Nice and snarky... all people in the MIlitary take an oath to defentd the constititution

, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (

And regardless of your thoughts on Viet Nam we still stand as the barrior against all those secret combination you guys are always carping about....

I mssed it what is it that you have done to Defend the Constitution ???

Semper Fi

George Clay

[uglypitbull]

all people in the MIlitary take an oath to defentd the constititution

do you mean these guys too? The ones confiscating guns from American citizens?

And regardless of your thoughts on Viet Nam we still stand as the barrior against all those secret combination you guys are always carping about....

I have a few friends who went to work for Blackwater after leaving the military who have admitted they will have no problem firing on Americans, in fact, they enjoy killing people in the middle east and brag about it every time they drink. Not all vets feel the same way you do, and I have no intention of standing behind any barrier....I will be part of that barrier myself.

I mssed it what is it that you have done to Defend the Constitution ???

Didn't realize I owed you an explanation.

[freedomforall]

If I remember Captain Moroni gathered people together in the military to defend the country against enemies both foreigh and domestic, and punished those who were unwilling to serve

I volunteered for the Marines during The Viet Nam war..

How many of you blow hards have done as much to protect the Constitution against enemies both foerign and domestic ?

When you point the accusing finger 3 point back at yourselves.

Semper Fi

George Clay

Am I one of your blowhards? I was a Jar-head serving in-country Vietnam from 1968 to 69 near the DMZ; went through the worst TET offensive they ever had in 68. I came close to getting blown to bits by a mortar from the enemy at LZ Stud. (later Vandergrift Combat Base)

While in Quang Tri during noon chow, having went there for a few days from Dong Ha, rockets came in and blew up all around us. We ran out the doors and jumped into a deep trench. Upon returning to Dong Ha, the chow hall was missing, blown to bits.

Before that, in mid 68 I went to Da Nang for 60 days with an inventory team. While there Rockets and Mortars came in and shook the whole base.

So I went to Nam twice. I came out of the Corpse an E-5

From 67-68 I spent thirteen months on Okinawa. While there, during my sleep, several guys would throw scouring powder and a bucket of water on me and then tell me they were baptizing me...just because I was Mormon. And they did that at least three times.

But it doesn't stop there. I am now striving to awaken people to our awful situation. I feel that many church members don't give a rat's tail about the Constitution. And I hope that lurkers on this forum are searching for answers and researching the information that I and some others have posted to help themselves learn and do something about the awful situation we are in, however they are willing and able. I've taken the task of learning and passing on info, going to gun rallies and signing petitions at Grassfire Nation: http://www.grassfire.com/petitions.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; These petitions are hand delivered to their destination, otherwise I wouldn't give them second thought.

I open my mouth to strangers and tell them that Obama is doing damage to the country. I tell them that Obamacare is wrong.

You got after me on a different thread and I ignored it, but you have a real problem with those you claim aren't patriotic enough, because you question their actions.

So, do I pass the test?

Semper Fi.

[gclayjr]

freedomfighter,

Semper fi. Thank you for your service. I never claimed that those of you who for some reason need to continue to beat the drum of claiming that certain specfic events are a result of specific conspiracies are not patriotic...I think you are wrong, but not un-patriotic. I brought up the service because those of you who want to beat the drum are not satisfied to simply make your point. You criticise those of us who don't agree with you. When I suggested on that other thread that I believe in trying to change the hearts and minds of the people rather than cotinuing to pursue what I think is a pointless crusade to expose these specific conspiracies, one of your buddies (I think it was AussieOI) suggested that I was a milqutoast and specifically stated the I discusted him... that in fact was the genesis of my questioning how you can continue to assume that anybody who doesn't agree with you does nothng to support the constitution, this country, or freedom.

There are even such snarkey comments here in this thread for example:

"They express it in several ways, but it generally boils down to this: Just live the gospel; there's no need to get involved in trying to save freedom and the Constitution....

Of course, this is dangerous reasoning, because in reality you cannot fully live the gospel without working to save freedom and the Constitution....

"

I'm not looking for a fight. Maybe if you all can speculate about your various consipracies without implying that those who don't agree with you are not following the gospel, or defending the constitution, I'll be glad to remain silent on your various theories.

Regards,

George Clay