LDS Freedom Forum

I have recently become a member of the world affairs brief (the newsletter of Joel Skousen). I respect this mans opinion tremendously, however his timeline of collapse in 10 years seems so long. Much to his credit, while other forecasters have proclaimed doom around the corner for years, Joel has been consistent in saying we have time. What are your opinions of his timeline, and do you think we still have a decade before the floor caves it?
thank you.

I think 10 years is too long.

I believe it can get much much worse before THE collapse happens. I believe when our children (who have no respect for authority, who have no empathy for others, who have very little moral compass because God is not taught to them, who have lost almost all sense of relationship because of our current technology) have children (who will have total contempt for authority, who will be totally selfish, who will have no moral compass because God will be seen as immoral, who will lose all sense of relationship because of their very advanced technology) then there will be a collapse and it will be painful. I call this the Zombie Apocalypse.

There is a lot of uncertainty that can affect the timeline.

I often tell my kids that frequently the choice between a Republican administration and a Democratic administration is like a choice between the slow road to purgatory and the Highway to Hell. I alway end up voting Republican (I guess I prefer the slow road to purgatory)

Nevertheless, it is the nature of society that governments progress towards being larger, more oppressive, and tyrannical until somethig major changes the hearts of the people. I believe that with some luck a Romney administration could either minimize a coming crash or engineer an only somewhat bumpy landing.

That will probably not change enough hearts and minds to truly change society and get us out of this big mess. This will only happen when we convince enough hearts and minds of the importance of supporting the constitution, not coveting that which others have, the importance of strong traditional families, working for our subsistance, being honest, and true.... and of course accepting Jesus Christ and his teachings.

I am absolutey sure that if Obama gets reelected, we will have a major crash soon, and it will be violent and it will look like some apocalyptic movie. If Romney gets elected, we may have a chance for more time, and maybe things wont go bad as quickly or as violently. We might have more time to win the war of ideas and change enough more hearts before war, famine, pestilence and the judgements of a just god do it for us.

The choices made by the electorate of this country will have an effect on the timeline. I guess I still prefer the slow road to purgatory.

Regards,

George Clay

I enjoy Joel Skousen as well though I have not subscribed to his newsletter yet. He bases his timeline on the readiness of Russia and China to wage war on the USA. That is his timeline sink or swim line drawn in the sand. He does not think they will attack the USA which he says 100% for sure they will at some time attack the USA using nukes and bio-bombs. It will be a limited nuke attack because they want to take all the resources of USA so they don't want to make it a total nuclear waist land. So he as said many times over and over again he believes that they will attack the USA around 2020 with 90% chances. He only gives like a 30% of them attacking in 2015. He reads their reports and he as some inside information from CIA, NSA, FBi about the readiness of Russia and China to wage a world war in which they will divide up the USA. West goes to China and East goes to Russia. So they play nice until the USA is out of the way. Once gone then they will look at each other as new enemies. The world powers will then play each one of the other to destroy Russia and he thinks China will be the last nation that the NWO will then unite the world to take out. After which they will turn to take out Israel. As the NWO will control all nations by then that is why all the world will go up against Israel.

So in short, it is now about a 7 year time line. He believes we will gather together but we may not do so until things are so bad that if we don't gather together we would all die or be easily run over. I think we believes that after the attack is when the entire country will be in total chaos. That the only really real places of safety will be north mountain country in the middle of USA and Canada.

I don't think we can last 7 more years but if we do it will be a police state of hell we will have to endure until the Lord see fit to deliver us out of it.

triple777 wrote:I enjoy Joel Skousen as well though I have not subscribed to his newsletter yet. He bases his timeline on the readiness of Russia and China to wage war on the USA. That is his timeline sink or swim line drawn in the sand. He does not think they will attack the USA which he says 100% for sure they will at some time attack the USA using nukes and bio-bombs. It will be a limited nuke attack because they want to take all the resources of USA so they don't want to make it a total nuclear waist land. So he as said many times over and over again he believes that they will attack the USA around 2020 with 90% chances. He only gives like a 30% of them attacking in 2015. He reads their reports and he as some inside information from CIA, NSA, FBi about the readiness of Russia and China to wage a world war in which they will divide up the USA. West goes to China and East goes to Russia. So they play nice until the USA is out of the way. Once gone then they will look at each other as new enemies. The world powers will then play each one of the other to destroy Russia and he thinks China will be the last nation that the NWO will then unite the world to take out. After which they will turn to take out Israel. As the NWO will control all nations by then that is why all the world will go up against Israel.

So in short, it is now about a 7 year time line. He believes we will gather together but we may not do so until things are so bad that if we don't gather together we would all die or be easily run over. I think we believes that after the attack is when the entire country will be in total chaos. That the only really real places of safety will be north mountain country in the middle of USA and Canada.

I don't think we can last 7 more years but if we do it will be a police state of hell we will have to endure until the Lord see fit to deliver us out of it.

Hey triple777, is that a reference to the 777 heavy airplane?

Yes i agree with your thoughts on Joel.

We have more time, you'll see.

I give it 3-4 years until the 2nd civil war commences. In most of the commentaries, Skousen, Benson, etc. none of them really say how long that 2nd civil war will last. There are just several hints to the effect. I assume however that Russia & China would wait at least 2-3 years to let us wear ourselves down, then they would jump in thinking what is left of the ragtag armies will be easy to defeat. That's when the remaining militias/ military will combine together and at some point ask the church for help to throw out the invaders. So that would put it at 5-7 years. Of course at the same time all the mega storms and earthquakes will continue to testify as well and we will see the land changed.

north mountain country in the middle of USA and Canada

Where's that? :-\

Our first mistake is believing we have correct intel on Russia. The western world follows Clausewitz. The communists follow Sun Tzu. "Always deceive your enemy." When you are strong, pretend you are weak, etc. My personal opinion is what we're waiting for is some more gun control, i.e. more "random" shootings and getting guns out of the hands of the people. Once that's accomplished, the attack will come. And we will be utterly unprepared for what follows and the time for preparing will be past. We have no idea how ready the Russians are, even now.

Raindrop wrote:Our first mistake is believing we have correct intel on Russia. The western world follows Clausewitz. The communists follow Sun Tzu. "Always deceive your enemy." When you are strong, pretend you are weak, etc. My personal opinion is what we're waiting for is some more gun control, i.e. more "random" shootings and getting guns out of the hands of the people. Once that's accomplished, the attack will come. And we will be utterly unprepared for what follows and the time for preparing will be past. We have no idea how ready the Russians are, even now.

In officer military training Sun Tzu is taugh in America as well... FYI. However, I think the difference is we've quit looking at the Russians and the Chinese as enemies (more true for the Russians, we still view China as a threat but not a full out "enemy"). Yet the Russians especially are very much looking at us as their biggest enemy, even with their current "nice" face on. They utterly want to destroy America and what it stands for. We've just bought into the propaganda that they are no longer our enemy, thus our level of trying to decieve them or even percieve them is drastically lower than it should be.

-- Geoff

moving2zion wrote:I give it 3-4 years until the 2nd civil war commences. In most of the commentaries, Skousen, Benson, etc. none of them really say how long that 2nd civil war will last. There are just several hints to the effect. I assume however that Russia & China would wait at least 2-3 years to let us wear ourselves down, then they would jump in thinking what is left of the ragtag armies will be easy to defeat. That's when the remaining militias/ military will combine together and at some point ask the church for help to throw out the invaders. So that would put it at 5-7 years. Of course at the same time all the mega storms and earthquakes will continue to testify as well and we will see the land changed.

That's very interesting. I believe that should there be a civil war in the United States it'll also be joined by invasions from Russia, China, and Mexico. These nations are waiting for any weakness to invade. Our civil war won't last long!

Tribunal wrote:

moving2zion wrote:I give it 3-4 years until the 2nd civil war commences. In most of the commentaries, Skousen, Benson, etc. none of them really say how long that 2nd civil war will last. There are just several hints to the effect. I assume however that Russia & China would wait at least 2-3 years to let us wear ourselves down, then they would jump in thinking what is left of the ragtag armies will be easy to defeat. That's when the remaining militias/ military will combine together and at some point ask the church for help to throw out the invaders. So that would put it at 5-7 years. Of course at the same time all the mega storms and earthquakes will continue to testify as well and we will see the land changed.

That's very interesting. I believe that should there be a civil war in the United States it'll also be joined by invasions from Russia, China, and Mexico. These nations are waiting for any weakness to invade. Our civil war won't last long!

Where do you even get the idea that Mexico wants to or can even invade the U.S.? I am sorry but you are wrong, Mexico does not have the assets to even conquer say Texas...

No assets, right. But Mexico would not necessarily need its own army to conquer parts of the USA. The cartels can do that for them...

The monetary collapse will get the process really rolling. Detlev Schlichter, author of Paper Money Collapse, puts the monetary breakdown at somewhere between 2-5yrs. Although unforeseen events could expedite the timeline. Once this happens, all hell will break loose.

Zkulptor wrote:

Tribunal wrote:

moving2zion wrote:I give it 3-4 years until the 2nd civil war commences. In most of the commentaries, Skousen, Benson, etc. none of them really say how long that 2nd civil war will last. There are just several hints to the effect. I assume however that Russia & China would wait at least 2-3 years to let us wear ourselves down, then they would jump in thinking what is left of the ragtag armies will be easy to defeat. That's when the remaining militias/ military will combine together and at some point ask the church for help to throw out the invaders. So that would put it at 5-7 years. Of course at the same time all the mega storms and earthquakes will continue to testify as well and we will see the land changed.

That's very interesting. I believe that should there be a civil war in the United States it'll also be joined by invasions from Russia, China, and Mexico. These nations are waiting for any weakness to invade. Our civil war won't last long!

Where do you even get the idea that Mexico wants to or can even invade the U.S.? I am sorry but you are wrong, Mexico does not have the assets to even conquer say Texas...

Wrong! Even if a collapse happens in the United States, or there is a civil war in the US, both Mexican military members and civilians will rush to greener pastures up north in Estados Unidos.

I agree about the 5-7 year timeline for this reason. The Lord does not give a commandment unless He provides a way for us to keep that commandment. The Lord has inspired President Monson to annouce in the last few years several more temples to be built and of course dedicated. If the world's econmies collapse then there would not be a means to accomplish these things for it requires a up and running economic system to purchase lands and pay for and build these sacred buildings that the Lord Himself commanded President Monson to annouce and then construct. If no more temples were announced in the next few years of general conferences, then that would be an outward sign that once these already announced and soon to be dedicated temples were completed then the collapse would be ready to take place. In otherwords, why announce from revelation temples to be built but the means to do so unavailble in the first place? God's will and kingdom will continue to roll forth and fill the earth.

kenh wrote:I agree about the 5-7 year timeline for this reason. The Lord does not give a commandment unless He provides a way for us to keep that commandment. The Lord has inspired President Monson to annouce in the last few years several more temples to be built and of course dedicated. If the world's econmies collapse then there would not be a means to accomplish these things for it requires a up and running economic system to purchase lands and pay for and build these sacred buildings that the Lord Himself commanded President Monson to annouce and then construct. If no more temples were announced in the next few years of general conferences, then that would be an outward sign that once these already announced and soon to be dedicated temples were completed then the collapse would be ready to take place. In otherwords, why announce from revelation temples to be built but the means to do so unavailble in the first place? God's will and kingdom will continue to roll forth and fill the earth.

Yes kenh. the gospel will continue to fill the earth but there is a sequence of events, given in the scriptures, for this to happen. First the Gentiles get their chance, which they will reject, as a result, they will be destroyed.

D&C 45:
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

32 But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.

33 And there shall be earthquakes also in divers places, and many desolations; yet men will harden their hearts against me, and they will take up the sword, one against another, and they will kill one another.

Then will come the time for all Israel to recieve the gospel, including the lost tribes.

51 And then shall the Jews blook upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?

52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.

53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Then the heathen nations get their turn.

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.

3 Nephi also gives some info on this sequence.
Quite lenthy to post here but it details the destruction of the gentiles. Then the remant of the seed of Jacob builds New Jersalem. Then the gospel goes to the heathen nations.

houdini wrote:I have recently become a member of the world affairs brief (the newsletter of Joel Skousen). I respect this mans opinion tremendously, however his timeline of collapse in 10 years seems so long. Much to his credit, while other forecasters have proclaimed doom around the corner for years, Joel has been consistent in saying we have time. What are your opinions of his timeline, and do you think we still have a decade before the floor caves it?
thank you.

Rass922 wrote:

houdini wrote:I have recently become a member of the world affairs brief (the newsletter of Joel Skousen). I respect this mans opinion tremendously, however his timeline of collapse in 10 years seems so long. Much to his credit, while other forecasters have proclaimed doom around the corner for years, Joel has been consistent in saying we have time. What are your opinions of his timeline, and do you think we still have a decade before the floor caves it?
thank you.

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Do you think it will happened sooner than later, or simply not at all? I'm afraid I don't understand what your post is saying. If you have the time, I would appreciate you elaborating on your opinion.

Rass922 wrote:

houdini wrote:I have recently become a member of the world affairs brief (the newsletter of Joel Skousen). I respect this mans opinion tremendously, however his timeline of collapse in 10 years seems so long. Much to his credit, while other forecasters have proclaimed doom around the corner for years, Joel has been consistent in saying we have time. What are your opinions of his timeline, and do you think we still have a decade before the floor caves it?
thank you.

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Are three flags needed every time?

Much of China's primary means of attacking the United States and holding ground such as their aircraft carriers won't be ready until 2020- this matches up with what Cleon Skousen said in his talk "The next twenty five years" before he passed away. However just as our nation has done each time there has been a major war, China and Russia I assume would divert national resources labor material, etc towards speeding up these projects. If the completion of China's super carriers is completed just one year ahead of schedule that puts them inside the 7yr time span from now of being able to strike the United States and have the accompanying flotilla required to put a 5 million man force on the ground in the US. If gun legislation and grabbing communists inside the United States can reduce the number of individuals with arms at hand it reduces the size of force that the Russians/ Chinese would need to bring across. Thus the timeline in which they can attack us is sped up even more.

moving2zion wrote:Much of China's primary means of attacking the United States and holding ground such as their aircraft carriers won't be ready until 2020- this matches up with what Cleon Skousen said in his talk "The next twenty five years" before he passed away. However just as our nation has done each time there has been a major war, China and Russia I assume would divert national resources labor material, etc towards speeding up these projects. If the completion of China's super carriers is completed just one year ahead of schedule that puts them inside the 7yr time span from now of being able to strike the United States and have the accompanying flotilla required to put a 5 million man force on the ground in the US. If gun legislation and grabbing communists inside the United States can reduce the number of individuals with arms at hand it reduces the size of force that the Russians/ Chinese would need to bring across. Thus the timeline in which they can attack us is sped up even more.

samizdat wrote:No assets, right. But Mexico would not necessarily need its own army to conquer parts of the USA. The cartels can do that for them...

That's never going to happen, the cartels are but a handful of people.
If anything is see Americans fleeing to Mexico-Canada if things get hot.

Zkulptor wrote:

samizdat wrote:No assets, right. But Mexico would not necessarily need its own army to conquer parts of the USA. The cartels can do that for them...

That's never going to happen, the cartels are but a handful of people.
If anything is see Americans fleeing to Mexico-Canada if things get hot.

Mexico? Not just. For example, the great majority of gang members from about every C.A. country come through Mexico, and that would be a possibility--not just M, but people from every other C.A. country, too. And maybe even Chinese, from Panama, etc.