LDS Freedom Forum

samizdat wrote:Here is how I see it going down:

Netanyahu is watching the election in the USA shortly, given that according to lots of information he has lots of connections with Mitt Romney. If the elections look like Romney is going to lose (right now RCP has O +4 and 347 EV) in a couple more weeks, Netanyahu will have no choice but to strike Iran.

This will obligate Obama to make a hard decision: Condemn Israel for the attack, or help them out for Iran's retaliation. Both decisions could be minuses (a condemning will bring the Jews against him, a war with Iran will be seen as even worse).

Iran retaliates against Israel, striking US bases, obligating Obama into war.

Russia and China help out Iran against the US and Israel, and WW3 begins, with all hell breaking loose.

I hope I am wrong.

This might be the very reason that before the election is finalized Israel wouldn't even think of moving against Iran. They can't count on unqualified support from the USA with Obama in office.

On the other hand, the prophecy is that the whole world will be against Israel (whether that means what we know as the Middle East or literally the entire world is another question). Perhaps Israel will move against Iran or other of their neighbors in spite of no support expected from the USA.

Actually, maybe with Obama in office they can still count on support from the US Govt. The powers that be in both political parties are always looking for another excuse to tax more and spend more.

Raindrop wrote:Our first mistake is believing we have correct intel on Russia. The western world follows Clausewitz. The communists follow Sun Tzu. "Always deceive your enemy." When you are strong, pretend you are weak, etc. My personal opinion is what we're waiting for is some more gun control, i.e. more "random" shootings and getting guns out of the hands of the people. Once that's accomplished, the attack will come. And we will be utterly unprepared for what follows and the time for preparing will be past. We have no idea how ready the Russians are, even now.

In light of recent events your comments regarding random shootings, and gun rights have become chilling accurate.

kenh wrote:I agree about the 5-7 year timeline for this reason. The Lord does not give a commandment unless He provides a way for us to keep that commandment. The Lord has inspired President Monson to annouce in the last few years several more temples to be built and of course dedicated. If the world's econmies collapse then there would not be a means to accomplish these things for it requires a up and running economic system to purchase lands and pay for and build these sacred buildings that the Lord Himself commanded President Monson to annouce and then construct. If no more temples were announced in the next few years of general conferences, then that would be an outward sign that once these already announced and soon to be dedicated temples were completed then the collapse would be ready to take place. In otherwords, why announce from revelation temples to be built but the means to do so unavailble in the first place? God's will and kingdom will continue to roll forth and fill the earth.

I'm afraid you are caught in the "All is well in Zion" trap.

2nd Nephi 28: 25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

2nd Nephi 28: 31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Key Words Holy Ghost. Not every word spoken from the pulpits are words of the Lord.

mes5464 wrote:I think 10 years is too long.

yup, won't be anything left by then

Raindrop wrote:Our first mistake is believing we have correct intel on Russia. The western world follows Clausewitz. The communists follow Sun Tzu. "Always deceive your enemy." When you are strong, pretend you are weak, etc. My personal opinion is what we're waiting for is some more gun control, i.e. more "random" shootings and getting guns out of the hands of the people. Once that's accomplished, the attack will come. And we will be utterly unprepared for what follows and the time for preparing will be past. We have no idea how ready the Russians are, even now.

Well done.

Joel is not prophesying. He's not making predictions. He is making an assessment based on what he see's today. He thinks that China aren't ready to attack because they haven't got a blue water navy. He's probably right. Russia want to make sure they win. They will. That's already prophesied.

He also thinks the Elite will keep the economy going until the war and then that will bring about a total collapse. That's plausible. They could have easily collapsed everything in 2008 or last year with the European crisis - but no, they keep bailing out governments and banks. They're saving the big crash for something spectacular. I think Joel is right. It's WW3. Millions dead. America and the UK devastated. Cities in ruin. Billions terrified witless. It all backfires on them. They never have their new world order. Someone else does.

Most of you cannot get your heads around what it will be like. I've seen death and destruction in far away places after three decades in the military. It's coming home. It's your worst nightmare. And then some.

I don't know. I think that we may be closer to big events than we might think. I don't think the coming of the Lord in his glory is yet, but, I think many big things are coming.

I heard on the radio just last week that several people were calling for the U.S. Constitution to be done away with and re-written as it was totally out of date with today's needs and the people in this new global world. It made me shudder!! Why? Well, first that is just an insane proposal as there is absolutely nothing wrong with the one we have and in the Book of Daniel chapter 7 verse 25 it states; And he shall speak great words against the most high, and shall wear out the saints of the most High and think to change the times and the laws; and they shall be given into his hands until a time and times and the dividing of time. "Uh...yeah, that means when we seek to change our U.S. Constitution, which BTW was a divinely inspired document---then yep, our doom is fixed!!)

Between what are current President states with his constant blasphemy against God, and those who love God, and all of the Unconstitutional laws he has created, signed and mandated, does not the scripture of Daniel quoted above totally fit the bill? Is it not starting to wear you out with all the wickedness and evil, mandates, rules, regulations, heavy burdened taxes, intrusions of every kind into every aspect of our lives and unconstitutional laws etc. etc. etc.? I know it wears me out to no end, and what is sad is that we haven't even begun to see the really bad stuff yet. Yeah, it wears me out. I just want to live my life in peace and worship my God as I believe. I just want to be able to work and earn a living without having to give it all to unconstitutional taxes. I want to be able to have some balance in my work/home life without having to work a gazillion hours a day because I have to do the job of 15 people.

Based on all I see around me, the signs unveiling themselves in great speed, because of those who would scream "do away with the Constitution"....yeah, I think we have just about come to the end of the time of the gentiles. (Heavy sigh)

heartsongs wrote: Between what are current President states with his constant blasphemy against God, and those who love God, and all of the Unconstitutional laws he has created, signed and mandated, does not the scripture of Daniel quoted above totally fit the bill? Is it not starting to wear you out with all the wickedness and evil, mandates, rules, regulations, heavy burdened taxes, intrusions of every kind into every aspect of our lives and unconstitutional laws etc. etc. etc.? I know it wears me out to no end, and what is sad is that we haven't even begun to see the really bad stuff yet. Yeah, it wears me out. I just want to live my life in peace and worship my God as I believe. I just want to be able to work and earn a living without having to give it all to unconstitutional taxes. I want to be able to have some balance in my work/home life without having to work a gazillion hours a day because I have to do the job of 15 people.

This reminds me of a fun little children's book, "An Island Called Liberty":

http://www.amazon.com/Island-Called-Lib ... 0976616009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It illustrates what happens with an imbalance of makers and takers, eventually getting to the point where just one person is working to produce things (to illustrate the point on a small scale).

i am just going to throw this out here, something will happen in slc end of 2017

I have been thinking a lot about events, possible timelines etc....from different sources and I believe Joel brings it up too...that at some point "they" (whoever that might be) will come for the guns, food storage and probably valuables. I am guessing it will have to be under the guise of "a national emergency/public safety type thing...I am just not sure what event(s) will bring this about. Will it be a simultaneous type confiscation or what. I know it is VITAL that we be in tune with the Lord to know what He wants us to do. I also think things will happen much SOONER than Skousen's timeline. I understand it is just a prediction.

LukeAir2008 wrote:Joel is not prophesying. He's not making predictions. He is making an assessment based on what he see's today. He thinks that China aren't ready to attack because they haven't got a blue water navy. He's probably right. Russia want to make sure they win. They will. That's already prophesied.

He also thinks the Elite will keep the economy going until the war and then that will bring about a total collapse. That's plausible. They could have easily collapsed everything in 2008 or last year with the European crisis - but no, they keep bailing out governments and banks. They're saving the big crash for something spectacular. I think Joel is right. It's WW3. Millions dead. America and the UK devastated. Cities in ruin. Billions terrified witless. It all backfires on them. They never have their new world order. Someone else does.

Most of you cannot get your heads around what it will be like. I've seen death and destruction in far away places after three decades in the military. It's coming home. It's your worst nightmare. And then some.

That is so true Luke! I have not seen what you have and I am NOT looking forward to things though I have a hard time not thinking about it.

heartsongs wrote:Between what are current President states with his constant blasphemy against God, and those who love God, and all of the Unconstitutional laws he has created, signed and mandated, does not the scripture of Daniel quoted above totally fit the bill? Is it not starting to wear you out with all the wickedness and evil, mandates, rules, regulations, heavy burdened taxes, intrusions of every kind into every aspect of our lives and unconstitutional laws etc. etc. etc.? I know it wears me out to no end, and what is sad is that we haven't even begun to see the really bad stuff yet. Yeah, it wears me out. I just want to live my life in peace and worship my God as I believe. I just want to be able to work and earn a living without having to give it all to unconstitutional taxes. I want to be able to have some balance in my work/home life without having to work a gazillion hours a day because I have to do the job of 15 people.

Yeah, I'm worn out too. But I've got a bit of a higher ideal in mind rather than simply wanting to be able to provide for my family. Having obtained an idea of what Zion will be, I will never be content with our current system, even though I am forced to work with it right now.

I recently had a run-in with the electric company. I signed up with them for my new place a little over two months ago. Then I waited for the bill. It never came. What with being busy getting everything put back together after moving, I haven't thought too much about the electric bill, but when my second gas bill came with still no sign of the first electric bill, I thought I'd better do something. So I called the company.

They'd been sending my bill to an old address from almost a decade ago. So I updated my address with them and again waited for the bill to come in the mail. Another week later, I thought I'd better give them a call again, only before I had the chance, a guy showed up determined to cut the power. And this in the middle of the coldest part of winter with me in a house full of sick kids.

Fortunately, my landlord intervened and switched the power to her name to give me time to sort out the mess, which I started working on right away. In the process of trying to get everything taken care of, I called the company to ask them to email me a shut off notice since I had not received one in the mail. To my amazement, I was informed that there was no shut off notice. Because they were shutting off the power due to non-payment of the deposit, NOT the actual bill, I was not entitled to even be informed beforehand what they were planning to do. I had not received a single scrap of paper by that time from the electric company and they ought to have had my record of my calling them to report that that was so.

Again, today I called to double check everything was taken care of and informed that there was still an outstanding balance that would result in shut off if I did not take care of it right away. My baby is so sick today that I was told by a doctor at the hospital that she had been spared admittance by a very slim margin and she needs to be closely monitored for a while. Yet the electric company does not care. They don't care if it was their shortcoming that caused my bill to go unpaid. They don't care if I have to juggle caring for my sick baby and figuring out how to pay the bill for a while so long as they get paid. No charity whatsoever.

And why? It's because the electric company revolves around money. So much of our lives do. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

And so I am longing for Zion, when my work will be valuable, not because it earns a certain dollar amount, but because it is a job well done. I am longing for the day when I can create something and then stand back and look at it with satisfaction. And then receive even greater satisfaction as I use it to bless the lives of my family and others around me. I am longing for the day when I can do this because everyone else is doing the same thing and so my needs will be met by what they are doing and theirs met by what I am doing. And I'll never ever have to worry about the power being turned off in the middle of winter because whoever is producing electricity would be galled at the thought of turning it off on a person in need of it.

Some day the world is going to stop revolving around money and start revolving around people. I can't wait for that day. Every moment I am forced to face the realities of our fallen world and its heartlessness, it makes me even more eager for the day when I can give and take freely. What a wonderful time that will be!

Raindrop wrote:Our first mistake is believing we have correct intel on Russia. The western world follows Clausewitz. The communists follow Sun Tzu. "Always deceive your enemy." When you are strong, pretend you are weak, etc. My personal opinion is what we're waiting for is some more gun control, i.e. more "random" shootings and getting guns out of the hands of the people. Once that's accomplished, the attack will come. And we will be utterly unprepared for what follows and the time for preparing will be past. We have no idea how ready the Russians are, even now.

Yes, exactly! :-ss Are you a prophetess?

Yes, Called to Serve....I agree with you! I hope you don't think that I was implying in my post that my life revolves around money or just my mere little existence today. I too look forward to the day when we live in Zion. It's sad though....for it is us (the people) that keeps us from from her as Brother Joseph once said, since Zion starts in our own heart. I look forward to the day when there are no poor among us and we are all of one heart and one mind, and wickedness and evil are done away.

No, I didn't get that from you. Just adding to your very well put thoughts. I'm sure we all long for Zion.