LDS Freedom Forum

I think the only thing holding us up right now is the arm of God for the righteous sake and that the destruction of our society could happen at any moment.

Called to Serve wrote:I think the only thing holding us up right now is the arm of God for the righteous sake and that the destruction of our society could happen at any moment.

I do not think it is that imminent., we still have time, but we are getting closer... I say 2 more decades....

That's a lot longer than I imagine. What I'm trying to say though is not that it's going to happen right away, just that it could.

I think there's a lot of people in power thinking they've got things in control when they don't really and never had. If you look at the situation spiritually, then wouldn't you say we are ripe for destruction? And isn't that when the Book of Mormon says that we will be destroyed? If that is so, then the only thing upholding our nation is the fact that the Lord hasn't seen fit yet to allow us to be destroyed. And that's always for the righteous' sake.

Throughout the history of the world the same story has played again and again. A nation becomes too wicked to be sustained by the Lord, but they never believe they can be conquered. "Our walls are too thick; our defenses too great," they boast. And then God sets them straight. He's the only one who has upheld us from the start--and we're foolish to forget that.

So personally, I would forget what the markets are doing, what Russia and China are doing, and what anybody else is doing, and start pleading to the Lord to save you and your family. It's really the only guarantee you've got.

Called to Serve wrote:That's a lot longer than I imagine. What I'm trying to say though is not that it's going to happen right away, just that it could.

I think there's a lot of people in power thinking they've got things in control when they don't really and never had. If you look at the situation spiritually, then wouldn't you say we are ripe for destruction? And isn't that when the Book of Mormon says that we will be destroyed? If that is so, then the only thing upholding our nation is the fact that the Lord hasn't seen fit yet to allow us to be destroyed. And that's always for the righteous' sake.

Throughout the history of the world the same story has played again and again. A nation becomes too wicked to be sustained by the Lord, but they never believe they can be conquered. "Our walls are too thick; our defenses too great," they boast. And then God sets them straight. He's the only one who has upheld us from the start--and we're foolish to forget that.

So personally, I would forget what the markets are doing, what Russia and China are doing, and what anybody else is doing, and start pleading to the Lord to save you and your family. It's really the only guarantee you've got.

I agree 100% I just know for a fact and from the one and only source I will see my kids get married.... but true I wonder all the time when we will get to that point where He says "enough!"

I'm certain you will see your kids married, too. I expect the destruction of the world, the burning by fire to change it to a millennial world, to occur decades from now. But I do believe things are going to start getting shook up real soon. I believe Christ's followers will be tested and those who aren't truly devoted to Him will be divided from those who are. I believe Zion will be built and the Saints will rest there while the judgments are poured out upon the earth. I believe that Zion will be in existence for decades before Jesus appears in the East and the world is burned.

So I think your kids will likely be getting married in Zion, at least if they aren't going to be marriageable for at least ten years. A marriage in Zion sound good for your kids?

Personally, I believe, based on how things played out for the Nephites, that before the end comes, there will be period of trials that will really just wake people up. Then things will settle down and because people are humble, the church will experience huge growth and the world will enjoy general prosperity for a time. After a while pride will creep back and we will see a sudden plunge into wickedness across the world at which time the Lord will say "Enough!" and then destruction on a large scale to sanctify the world for his coming. Not sure over how many years that will play out, but that's my feeling on the series of events that await us.

laronius wrote:Personally, I believe, based on how things played out for the Nephites, that before the end comes, there will be period of trials that will really just wake people up. Then things will settle down and because people are humble, the church will experience huge growth and the world will enjoy general prosperity for a time. After a while pride will creep back and we will see a sudden plunge into wickedness across the world at which time the Lord will say "Enough!" and then destruction on a large scale to sanctify the world for his coming. Not sure over how many years that will play out, but that's my feeling on the series of events that await us.

I agree! I actually think that the awakening will happen during WWIII which is very likely to start in .... well, soon! Just looking at the news it's pretty obvious that the pieces for a world wide war are all falling into place. The question is when will "checkmate" be called and the violence begin?

-- Geoff

kenh wrote:I agree about the 5-7 year timeline for this reason. The Lord does not give a commandment unless He provides a way for us to keep that commandment. The Lord has inspired President Monson to annouce in the last few years several more temples to be built and of course dedicated. If the world's econmies collapse then there would not be a means to accomplish these things for it requires a up and running economic system to purchase lands and pay for and build these sacred buildings that the Lord Himself commanded President Monson to annouce and then construct. If no more temples were announced in the next few years of general conferences, then that would be an outward sign that once these already announced and soon to be dedicated temples were completed then the collapse would be ready to take place. In otherwords, why announce from revelation temples to be built but the means to do so unavailble in the first place? God's will and kingdom will continue to roll forth and fill the earth.

Look I think you have a good idea however, as soon as the Ohio temple was built they only had it for a short time and were thrown out. And the Navou temple was build and then very very short time there after it was burned to the ground and all the stone stolen. So I don't put much stock into that. As it says two women will be grinding at the mill and one taken and one left. They will be marring and given to marriage when the day comes. So to we must proceed as normal or as normal as possible until we can not longer worship our God. And the day will come when it will be outlawed to meet as a church to worship God. When that day comes either saint will gather or we will have gathered by then. Read the BOM. when that happens the people gather out of the wicked and then the wicked are destroyed.

LateOutOfBed wrote:

laronius wrote:Personally, I believe, based on how things played out for the Nephites, that before the end comes, there will be period of trials that will really just wake people up. Then things will settle down and because people are humble, the church will experience huge growth and the world will enjoy general prosperity for a time. After a while pride will creep back and we will see a sudden plunge into wickedness across the world at which time the Lord will say "Enough!" and then destruction on a large scale to sanctify the world for his coming. Not sure over how many years that will play out, but that's my feeling on the series of events that await us.

I agree! I actually think that the awakening will happen during WWIII which is very likely to start in .... well, soon! Just looking at the news it's pretty obvious that the pieces for a world wide war are all falling into place. The question is when will "checkmate" be called and the violence begin?

-- Geoff

Well, I completely disagree. That time has already passed us. Remember all the talks in GC in the 50s 60s 70 and 80s. So many times it was about support the constitution and get your food supply. Recently I have not hear one single talk about food supply or support the constitution. Read between the lines. We are past that time. We are now right before the cleansing. Hope, Faith and Charity is all that is being preached. How to administer to the sick, how to follow the HG and follow the prophet. Elder Kimble said during his time that we were at 2 or 3 minutes before midnight for the second coming during his days. If so, what are we now? We are not more that 10 years out for this to happen, 100% for sure this will happen by 2030. I think it is going to happen in the next 1 to 5 years we will be right in the middle of it. It is moving so fast right now it is hard to keep up with it.

laronius wrote:Personally, I believe, based on how things played out for the Nephites, that before the end comes, there will be period of trials that will really just wake people up. Then things will settle down and because people are humble, the church will experience huge growth and the world will enjoy general prosperity for a time. After a while pride will creep back and we will see a sudden plunge into wickedness across the world at which time the Lord will say "Enough!" and then destruction on a large scale to sanctify the world for his coming. Not sure over how many years that will play out, but that's my feeling on the series of events that await us.

If you're talking about the beginning of 3 Nephi, at the sign of Christ's birth most were still wicked, despite the wonderful signs in heaven. Over the next 3 decades they became more and more wicked; then came the destruction. I don't think there will be a period of prosperity before the cleansing, but I don't know.

Azriel wrote:

laronius wrote:Personally, I believe, based on how things played out for the Nephites, that before the end comes, there will be period of trials that will really just wake people up. Then things will settle down and because people are humble, the church will experience huge growth and the world will enjoy general prosperity for a time. After a while pride will creep back and we will see a sudden plunge into wickedness across the world at which time the Lord will say "Enough!" and then destruction on a large scale to sanctify the world for his coming. Not sure over how many years that will play out, but that's my feeling on the series of events that await us.

If you're talking about the beginning of 3 Nephi, at the sign of Christ's birth most were still wicked, despite the wonderful signs in heaven. Over the next 3 decades they became more and more wicked; then came the destruction. I don't think there will be a period of prosperity before the cleansing, but I don't know.

Acutally, the time I'm referring to at which point the people were awakened, both Nephites and Lamanites, begins in 3 Nephi chapter 2 when all the righteous or at least decent people unite against the Gads. A period of wars follow in which the gads are finally destroyed. At this point in ch. 5, beginning about A.D. 21, the people are largely converted and very prosperous. Then in ch. 6, about A.D. 29, the people quickly descend into wickedness. Vs. 13-14 read:

Some were lifted up in pride, and others were exceedingly humble; some did return railing for railing, while others would receive railing and persecution and all manner of afflictions, and would not turn and revile again, but were humble and penitent before God.

And thus there became a great inequality in all the land, insomuch that the church began to be broken up; yea, insomuch that in the thirtieth year the church was broken up in all the land save it were among a few of the Lamanites who were converted unto the true faith; and they would not depart from it, for they were firm, and steadfast, and immovable, willing with all diligence to keep the commandments of the Lord.

Here we see where the wheat and tares, sheep and goats, get seperated. the government in the land is largely broken up and seperated into tribes and great destruction follows.

If I had to guess, I would say we are probably about 3 Nephi ch. 1, A.D. 1, where wickedness is increasing and the battle against the gads looms on the horizon.

I would say that is happening right now. I remember right after 9/11 people seemed to embrace their belief in God again and it was once again publicly acceptable to talk about God, but that period of spirituality passed quickly. I expect there may be other similar things happen, as well, but overall, the people will keep going downhill.

I have often wondered how deep the change was in the Nephites during this period of time. It seems they were more concerned with their own welfare than in truly trying to come to know God. They would "be good" for a while when things got rough, but the moment things settled down again, they would go right back to what they were doing. The Lord blessed them when He could, but all those same people still suffered greatly when the real destruction occurred.

The Saints have thought the "winding up scene" was just around the corner ever since the 1830's. Several were shocked it didn't happen in 1891. Joel's timeline is, though educated and based on exemplary rationale, still just a complete guess. I'll go out on a limb here and say it's longer than 10 years. That is until David Cohen shows up and shares a new revelation.

Or you could pray about it and find out for yourself.

Time will tell I suppose. This feeling of limbo is an awful feeling though.

My personal opinion is to keep your eye on interest rates. Right before a total collapse of the economy, interest rates will decrease to the point where banks will scarcely maintain margins of solubility with possible assistance from government to continue propping them up. What this means though is we are very rapidly approaching the end of the lifecycle of an economic system that was doomed to fail from the moment it was conceived. Any economy based upon interest bearing debt carries with it it's own seeds of inevitable failure. We are seeing lower and lower interest rates not because of a benevolent banking system but due to the absolute neccessity where more and more individuals are no longer credit worthy and at the same time financially strapped, where business is collapsing or outsourcing. Where the national debt is increasing exponentially. The collapse is already here folks, we are in it now. My opinion is the catastrophic collapse will probably happen within 5 years but depending on how many more bailouts we receive and how low interest rates can possibly go, it could be a couple years more. Bailouts will never cure whats really ailing the economy but serves a purpose in providing liquidity to an otherwise depleted circulation caused by interest bearing debt and subsequent interest bearing debt that MUST be taken on (equal to principal + interest). The end result is a multiplication of debt increased as much as the total interest charged in the economy. It cannot go on forever but will collapse.

iamse7en wrote:The Saints have thought the "winding up scene" was just around the corner ever since the 1830's. Several were shocked it didn't happen in 1891. Joel's timeline is, though educated and based on exemplary rationale, still just a complete guess. I'll go out on a limb here and say it's longer than 10 years. That is until David Cohen shows up and shares a new revelation.

+1

kenh wrote:I agree about the 5-7 year timeline for this reason. The Lord does not give a commandment unless He provides a way for us to keep that commandment. The Lord has inspired President Monson to annouce in the last few years several more temples to be built and of course dedicated. If the world's econmies collapse then there would not be a means to accomplish these things for it requires a up and running economic system to purchase lands and pay for and build these sacred buildings that the Lord Himself commanded President Monson to annouce and then construct. If no more temples were announced in the next few years of general conferences, then that would be an outward sign that once these already announced and soon to be dedicated temples were completed then the collapse would be ready to take place. In otherwords, why announce from revelation temples to be built but the means to do so unavailble in the first place? God's will and kingdom will continue to roll forth and fill the earth.

How many temples were announced in the April 2012 Conference?

Vision wrote:

kenh wrote:I agree about the 5-7 year timeline for this reason. The Lord does not give a commandment unless He provides a way for us to keep that commandment. The Lord has inspired President Monson to annouce in the last few years several more temples to be built and of course dedicated. If the world's econmies collapse then there would not be a means to accomplish these things for it requires a up and running economic system to purchase lands and pay for and build these sacred buildings that the Lord Himself commanded President Monson to annouce and then construct. If no more temples were announced in the next few years of general conferences, then that would be an outward sign that once these already announced and soon to be dedicated temples were completed then the collapse would be ready to take place. In otherwords, why announce from revelation temples to be built but the means to do so unavailble in the first place? God's will and kingdom will continue to roll forth and fill the earth.

How many temples were announced in the April 2012 Conference?

Has this EVER mattered historically? There are great examples even with the modern Church where they were commanded to build temples right up until a crisis, and even during crises. One of the first things that has been prophesied for the beginning of the milenium is to build more temples. Chances are this commandment will never be rescinded or even paused.

In fact, why wouldn't we expect announcements about temples planned to actually increase instead of decrease as a crisis approaches, be it John's apocalypse or something more mundane like a world war or famine where tens or hundreds of millions die?

I am inclined to think it is more in the 15 to 20 year range, although I would not be surprised if I woke up tomorrow and all hell had broken loose in the night.

The way things are headed in the Middle East, World War III could be very soon. It might very well presage a financial collapse.

Kathyn, BINGO!

I've seen predictions come and go on here. I've seen economic gloom and doom, yet we have a rascally FED that seems to be able to stretch out the pain. The war that is looming seems to be the most clear in my mind. Every week there is another piece to this puzzle--just recently with the implication that with an attack on Iran or Syria, Russia and China would jump in. This will play right out of Ezekiel 37.

I would love to start a thread and title it WWIII watch.

pjbrownie wrote:Kathyn, BINGO!

I've seen predictions come and go on here. I've seen economic gloom and doom, yet we have a rascally FED that seems to be able to stretch out the pain. The war that is looming seems to be the most clear in my mind. Every week there is another piece to this puzzle--just recently with the implication that with an attack on Iran or Syria, Russia and China would jump in. This will play right out of Ezekiel 37.

I would love to start a thread and title it WWIII watch.

...and BINGO to you pj. Would you be willing to share what pieces of the the puzzle you see? I'm amazed at how quick the wheels are spinning. It seems everything has been accelerating instead of progressing at a steady pace.

2015 seems like a year to watch. It's a Shemitah year (like 2001 and 2008) and there will be lunar eclipses on Passover in April and Tabernacles in September. It may not have anything to do with the things that Joel Skousen is talking about, but something interesting could happen.

Here is how I see it going down:

Netanyahu is watching the election in the USA shortly, given that according to lots of information he has lots of connections with Mitt Romney. If the elections look like Romney is going to lose (right now RCP has O +4 and 347 EV) in a couple more weeks, Netanyahu will have no choice but to strike Iran.

This will obligate Obama to make a hard decision: Condemn Israel for the attack, or help them out for Iran's retaliation. Both decisions could be minuses (a condemning will bring the Jews against him, a war with Iran will be seen as even worse).

Iran retaliates against Israel, striking US bases, obligating Obama into war.

Russia and China help out Iran against the US and Israel, and WW3 begins, with all hell breaking loose.

I hope I am wrong.