LDS Freedom Forum

Mark wrote:Go to your Bishop and request a priesthood blessing mingano.

Been there, done that. For me this part of the experiment didn't work. For me this act of exercising first faith then exercising hope when repeated attempts to cultivate faith failed was fruitless.

The absolute best I can do is to never ask god for anything so I won't be disappointed when he ignores me.

mingano wrote: The absolute best I can do is to never ask god for anything so I won't be disappointed when he ignores me.

Mingano, I don't get everything I ask for either, but I know it's not because H.F. doesn't want to give it to me, it's just he can't, either I'm not ready for it or because it goes against someone else's agency, which he has to honor.

I know how hard it is to keep praying for something and not have our prayers answered yet, that's just part of the test. Hang on. Hope on. Someday you will receive all you ever wanted if you just maintain hope. Don't give up on Heavenly Father, I promise he hasn't forgotten or given up on you. You are on the top of his list as much as anyone else.

Some souls are more important and valuable than others. This means that some are less. I am in the lesser category. If god wants me he knows where to find me - he can take care of everybody else first and if there are any leftovers I'll be around.

God is no respecter of persons. Each soul has great value to God.Which of your children would you throw away?

Sometimes, we just are not ready for the greater things. We must continue in faith and endure to the end.

Keep reaching for the Savior. You must have faith that the Book of Mormnon is true and the Promises are true. Many would not be healed by Christ because they could not believe it could be so easy. Faith and obedience is key. Obedience with faith that Christ will make up for our shortcomings and failures.

Thomas wrote:God is no respecter of persons. Each soul has great value to God.Which of your children would you throw away?

That is not what that means. God absolutely and unquestionably regards some children as more valuable than others and does not treat them all equally. To some is given, to others not.

Sometimes, we just are not ready for the greater things. We must continue in faith and endure to the end.

Seeds need to be tended from time to time or they can't grow. When the farmer walks away then the seed will perish.

mingano wrote:

Thomas wrote:God is no respecter of persons. Each soul has great value to God.Which of your children would you throw away?

That is not what that means. God absolutely and unquestionably regards some children as more valuable than others and does not treat them all equally. To some is given, to others not.

Sometimes, we just are not ready for the greater things. We must continue in faith and endure to the end.

Seeds need to be tended from time to time or they can't grow. When the farmer walks away then the seed will perish.

Some seeds are planted on the stony soil and given no water or fertilizer. Some will wither and die under these conditions. Some will struggle and fight for life under oppressive odds. Later the gardner comes along and gives the plant norishment. That plant, after enduring such a trail, then becomes the strongest most productive plant in the garden.

God plants us were we can make the most progress. Some you see that might appear to have it all, born in the right family, money, faith, etc., Maybe could not survive the trails you or I have. They haven't endured the drought upon the stony soil, their roots are not prepared for life an the edge and without the constant care would wihter and die.

Faith is a correct understanding of God. It comes as a result of hearing the word of God from authorized messengers/angels. It is the fruit of having belief and acknowledging that you are unworthy coupled with an openness to correction from God and submission to Him.

Without that correct understanding you cannot exercise faith.

Misconceptions of God is called unbelief.

Holding onto those misconceptions when corrected is called dwindling in unbelief.

Belief can starve to death. It happens and is a natural part of the way God designed the soul.

mingano wrote:Belief can starve to death. It happens and is a natural part of the way God designed the soul.

Job and others have been tested so low that they prayed to cease to exist. Job and others held on and were able to find God.

Isaiah talks constantly about how the lowly and abused will be exalted, while the high and mighty will be brought low.

I know you feel like you are a forgotten mistake that has been cast aside. Holding onto that belief causes you more anguish than is necessary.

God is not a distant creator who does not care for His creations. That is a false belief. It is unbelief.

Six days ago my newborn son had to endure needles, suctioning hoses, and a circumcision. It was a terrorizing experience for him. He was incapable of understanding the necessity of it. But all of those procedures were necessary to provide him immunity from disease, clear out his lungs to allow him to breath, and provide protection from other infections. My son is loved by his parents which is why he was subjected to such terrorizing procedures, though he didn't understand.

God is a loving parent who wants the best for His children. This is true belief. Latch onto this belief and it will lead to faith.

Gad wrote:Job and others have been tested so low that they prayed to cease to exist. Job and others held on and were able to find God.

Daily for years. Yet more evidence that the promise of "ask and it shall be given unto you" and related scriptures have fine print.

Isaiah talks constantly about how the lowly and abused will be exalted, while the high and mighty will be brought low.

I don't care if the high and mighty are brought low. I don't want to see anybody brought low. And I don't care about being exalted. What does that even mean, exactly? You die and get lots of money? Pretty clothes? Power to boss people around? You can afford as many iPhones as you want? You can go on elaborate vacations and have lots of servants catering to your every whim? You get to become somebody who is high and mighty but won't be brought low? All of these NDEs and glimpses into heaven... fancy houses, owning lots of pets, gold everywhere, fancy jewels - so if somebody pushes through all of the crap they can get a bunch of stuff that they don't even want?

I know you feel like you are a forgotten mistake that has been cast aside. Holding onto that belief causes you more anguish than is necessary.

It is understandable. It is within the realm of comprehension. It makes sense. It fits the data. It allows me to make sense of the world. It doesn't set me up for disappointment.

God is a loving parent who wants the best for His children. This is true belief. Latch onto this belief and it will lead to faith.

Been there, tried that, didn't work. That's the problem - I know all of the stories. I'm better at coming up with faith-promoting tales and comparisons and illustrations better than anybody that you'll ever meet. I have all kinds of things that help others but never help me. I needed much more than I was given and now I've just about starved to death, and I've even pretty much lost the will to even care anymore.

mingano wrote:

Gad wrote:Job and others have been tested so low that they prayed to cease to exist. Job and others held on and were able to find God.

Daily for years. Yet more evidence that the promise of "ask and it shall be given unto you" and related scriptures have fine print.

Isaiah talks constantly about how the lowly and abused will be exalted, while the high and mighty will be brought low.

I don't care if the high and mighty are brought low. I don't want to see anybody brought low. And I don't care about being exalted. What does that even mean, exactly? You die and get lots of money? Pretty clothes? Power to boss people around? You can afford as many iPhones as you want? You can go on elaborate vacations and have lots of servants catering to your every whim? You get to become somebody who is high and mighty but won't be brought low? All of these NDEs and glimpses into heaven... fancy houses, owning lots of pets, gold everywhere, fancy jewels - so if somebody pushes through all of the crap they can get a bunch of stuff that they don't even want?

I know you feel like you are a forgotten mistake that has been cast aside. Holding onto that belief causes you more anguish than is necessary.

It is understandable. It is within the realm of comprehension. It makes sense. It fits the data. It allows me to make sense of the world. It doesn't set me up for disappointment.

God is a loving parent who wants the best for His children. This is true belief. Latch onto this belief and it will lead to faith.

Been there, tried that, didn't work. That's the problem - I know all of the stories. I'm better at coming up with faith-promoting tales and comparisons and illustrations better than anybody that you'll ever meet. I have all kinds of things that help others but never help me. I needed much more than I was given and now I've just about starved to death, and I've even pretty much lost the will to even care anymore.

I feel very sorry for you my friend. May I ask what has happend in your life that causes you such pain?

May God be with you.

No one single event. Just who I am.

mingano wrote:

Gad wrote:Job and others have been tested so low that they prayed to cease to exist. Job and others held on and were able to find God.

Daily for years. Yet more evidence that the promise of "ask and it shall be given unto you" and related scriptures have fine print.

The fine print is that it will be at His timing and He won't give you a stone when you ask for bread, meaning that you will receive only those things that are for your benefit in the long run even if you don't understand why or how it will be a benefit.

Isaiah talks constantly about how the lowly and abused will be exalted, while the high and mighty will be brought low.

I don't care if the high and mighty are brought low. I don't want to see anybody brought low. And I don't care about being exalted. What does that even mean, exactly? You die and get lots of money? Pretty clothes? Power to boss people around? You can afford as many iPhones as you want? You can go on elaborate vacations and have lots of servants catering to your every whim? You get to become somebody who is high and mighty but won't be brought low? All of these NDEs and glimpses into heaven... fancy houses, owning lots of pets, gold everywhere, fancy jewels - so if somebody pushes through all of the crap they can get a bunch of stuff that they don't even want?

The focus is that one who is low, if they allow it, will be brought high. Being low is necessary to understanding exaltation.

All those descriptions of bossing people around, servants waiting on you... all of that is unbelief. It is an incorrect conception of what an Exalted Father is like. It prevents one from exercising faith.

All of those NDEs have nothing to do with heaven. By definition a near death experience brings you into the spirit world --- not heaven! The spirit world is a continuation of the trials of this estate and the conditions there do not at all reflect the condition of exalted parents. Heaven has nothing to do with bossing others around or material things (like fancy houses) or classes of people in mansions.

Exalted beings do not care for any such thing as fancy gardens and mansions with ornate decorations.

Being exalted, more often than not, means taking upon yourself the abuse and punishment of ungrateful and wicked offspring.

It is like the notion that you're going to be "exalted" without any idea that the eternities are completely isolated from the unworthy. No one will or can be "exalted" who is not adequately prepared. Anyone who attains that status will be required first to suffer what is suffered, minister what is required to be ministered, to prove here their fitness. How could a selfish soul ever provide to their ungrateful and abusive offspring everything necessary for them to develop? Exalted beings sacrifice themselves, and endure punishment on behalf of the guilty. They take upon themselves burdens which they do not deserve. They forgive, they succor, they uplift the unworthy. Pride is incompatible, and selfishness utterly disqualifies a soul from "exaltation." The principles which govern there are hardly understood here. Most of the faithful Latter-day Saints imagine they will able to employ means much like Lucifer's to accomplish their expected outcome. They have no concept of the sacrifices and selflessness required to be trusted by the Lord. He is the prototype of the saved man. He lived His entire existence as a sacrifice. Read 3 Ne. 11: 11 and you will find in His introduction of Himself what a saved man must do. There is no other way. The prideful expectation that someone here is going to attain that status hereafter is based, for the most part, on foolishness and vanity, uninformed by the great things required to become like our Lord. Only those who are exactly like Him will be given that status in the eternities. Zion will be formed from people who are willing to endure His presence. That is no small thing.

The abuse that Exalted beings suffer is more than outweighed by enjoying the company of other people like them... people that will sacrifice everything for their family. They obtain joy in their company and in the company of raising and enlarging their family.

I know you feel like you are a forgotten mistake that has been cast aside. Holding onto that belief causes you more anguish than is necessary.

It is understandable. It is within the realm of comprehension. It makes sense. It fits the data. It allows me to make sense of the world. It doesn't set me up for disappointment.

And yet that belief does not accurately reflect reality. It is a stumbling block.

God is a loving parent who wants the best for His children. This is true belief. Latch onto this belief and it will lead to faith.

Been there, tried that, didn't work. That's the problem - I know all of the stories. I'm better at coming up with faith-promoting tales and comparisons and illustrations better than anybody that you'll ever meet. I have all kinds of things that help others but never help me. I needed much more than I was given and now I've just about starved to death, and I've even pretty much lost the will to even care anymore.

There is no need to starve. Rather than reject the nourishment the Lord wants to provide, believe and be healed. My son was terrorized. He could have concluded this life was a crime and refused to latch onto his mother in a stubborn attempt to make sense of his pain. Or he could have forgiven the doctors and nurses that caused his pain and latched onto the nourishment offered.

Let go of your unbelief. Even if you just have a desire to believe that God is loving, latch onto that desire to belief. Let that desire to believe work on you.

In this life, no one is irredeemable. Cain, who was Perdition before the world was, could have been redeemed had he chosen God in this life. You are not Cain. You are better than Cain. You are redeemable, but you have let go of the misconceptions that you hold onto. Also, honestly, many of the LDS are in such a state of unbelief, that their conceptions are not any better.

Start with a desire to believe that god exists and loves you. Notice you will actually not believe it... but if you can at least desire to believe it then keep working on that desire.

The phrase everlastingly too late comes to mind. In the trek across the plains of mortality some are destined to drop during the journey. Within a generation those who were left behind aren't even missed.

awake wrote: I am not saying that one must be perfect or that it isn't possible to see Christ in this life, if that is what you think I mean't. I just believe that it is very very rare for someone to receive this experience, for it takes a very high level of righteousness to be given such a gift.

Says who? How righteous was Saul when he saw the Savior? There are many factors, including pre-mortality promises. The Lord will visit whom He will. It is not for us to decide.

awake wrote:As I said I have never known of or heard of anyone today who I believe really has had this experience, though yes, I believe it is very possible if one is righteous enough.

I have met people who have. Someone very close to me was attended to by Him personally. I think you need to re-examine your assumptions about this. We tend to over-focus on works in this church and forget about grace. The Lord's grace is sufficient for us if we let it.

mingano wrote:The phrase everlastingly too late comes to mind. In the trek across the plains of mortality some are destined to drop during the journey. Within a generation those who were left behind aren't even missed.

38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

Let us reason for moment.

Are you seeking for happiness in doing iniquity? Are your days of probation past?

I assume that you are alive since we are interacting in this Telestial world. Therefore your probation is not past.

I assume you are not happy (given your statements). Therefore, I do not think you are seeking for happiness in iniquity.

Even murderers can be redeemed and be among the most happy on the earth. (See the Lamanites)

Furthermore, given your misconceptions of eternity I doubt you have been in the presence of the Father. Therefore, you have not qualified as a son of Perdition in this life.

Even if you were Perdition in the prior life you can be redeemed in this life. (This is such a stretch I only mention it too head off any thoughts along these lines that you may have. You seem to be pessimistic of your value, but I am telling you that even those who barely qualified for a probation in this life are valued as much as the Only Begotten and can be redeemed by Him.)

Those that drop away in mortality do not do so because the Lord has destined them for their fate. It is because they cling to unbelief and refuse to be gathered as hen gathers her chickens. (And even then, the LDS church has barely an outline revealed as to just how many times the Lord will attempt to gather them.)

Finally, I state to you as a truth from Almighty God, that I have inquired and received an answer that you are not cast off, but that the Lord has extended His hand to you and continues still. Cast off your unbelief and let the desire to believe work in your heart. You may have years left of trials, but the dawn will break if you turn toward Him.

gruden2.0 wrote:

awake wrote: I am not saying that one must be perfect or that it isn't possible to see Christ in this life, if that is what you think I mean't. I just believe that it is very very rare for someone to receive this experience, for it takes a very high level of righteousness to be given such a gift.

Says who? How righteous was Saul when he saw the Savior? There are many factors, including pre-mortality promises. The Lord will visit whom He will. It is not for us to decide.

I have met people who have. Someone very close to me was attended to by Him personally. I think you need to re-examine your assumptions about this. We tend to over-focus on works in this church and forget about grace. The Lord's grace is sufficient for us if we let it.

That is my belief. And I believe 'it is for us to decide' who is righteous or not around us. So we can protect ourselves from being deceived.

True, Saul was not righteous when the Savior appeared to him, but he was near perfect afterwards. Saul must have earned that saving grace in the Pre-existence, and he certainly was a changed man afterwards. So maybe some who are at the other extreme from near perfection can also have such a visit but they will go to near perfection afterwards.

Like I said, if I knew someone so incredibly righteous, even if they were wicked before the experience, then I would believe they really saw the Savior, but I would not believe them if they were not that righteous.

I have also known people who claim to have been visited by the Savior, but they don't even live his laws or Gospel and thus I don't believe them. I know many people are being visited by false Christ's today, and they believe it is the real one.

Gad wrote:

mingano wrote:The phrase everlastingly too late comes to mind. In the trek across the plains of mortality some are destined to drop during the journey. Within a generation those who were left behind aren't even missed.

38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

Let us reason for moment.

Are you seeking for happiness in doing iniquity? Are your days of probation past?

I assume that you are alive since we are interacting in this Telestial world. Therefore your probation is not past.

I assume you are not happy (given your statements). Therefore, I do not think you are seeking for happiness in iniquity.

Even murderers can be redeemed and be among the most happy on the earth. (See the Lamanites)

Furthermore, given your misconceptions of eternity I doubt you have been in the presence of the Father. Therefore, you have not qualified as a son of Perdition in this life.

Even if you were Perdition in the prior life you can be redeemed in this life. (This is such a stretch I only mention it too head off any thoughts along these lines that you may have. You seem to be pessimistic of your value, but I am telling you that even those who barely qualified for a probation in this life are valued as much as the Only Begotten and can be redeemed by Him.)

Those that drop away in mortality do not do so because the Lord has destined them for their fate. It is because they cling to unbelief and refuse to be gathered as hen gathers her chickens. (And even then, the LDS church has barely an outline revealed as to just how many times the Lord will attempt to gather them.)

Finally, I state to you as a truth from Almighty God, that I have inquired and received an answer that you are not cast off, but that the Lord has extended His hand to you and continues still. Cast off your unbelief and let the desire to believe work in your heart. You may have years left of trials, but the dawn will break if you turn toward Him.

Thankyou for this post Gad. It is worth reposting and can benefit many, including me.

Thomas wrote:

Gad wrote:

mingano wrote:The phrase everlastingly too late comes to mind. In the trek across the plains of mortality some are destined to drop during the journey. Within a generation those who were left behind aren't even missed.

38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.

Let us reason for moment.

Are you seeking for happiness in doing iniquity? Are your days of probation past?

I assume that you are alive since we are interacting in this Telestial world. Therefore your probation is not past.

I assume you are not happy (given your statements). Therefore, I do not think you are seeking for happiness in iniquity.

Even murderers can be redeemed and be among the most happy on the earth. (See the Lamanites)

Furthermore, given your misconceptions of eternity I doubt you have been in the presence of the Father. Therefore, you have not qualified as a son of Perdition in this life.

Even if you were Perdition in the prior life you can be redeemed in this life. (This is such a stretch I only mention it too head off any thoughts along these lines that you may have. You seem to be pessimistic of your value, but I am telling you that even those who barely qualified for a probation in this life are valued as much as the Only Begotten and can be redeemed by Him.)

Those that drop away in mortality do not do so because the Lord has destined them for their fate. It is because they cling to unbelief and refuse to be gathered as hen gathers her chickens. (And even then, the LDS church has barely an outline revealed as to just how many times the Lord will attempt to gather them.)

Finally, I state to you as a truth from Almighty God, that I have inquired and received an answer that you are not cast off, but that the Lord has extended His hand to you and continues still. Cast off your unbelief and let the desire to believe work in your heart. You may have years left of trials, but the dawn will break if you turn toward Him.

Thankyou for this post Gad. It is worth reposting and can benefit many, including me.

Excellent post.
Mingano would be benefited in taking this sincere advice. To be humble is to recognize ourdependence upon the Lord. Being conscious of our strengths, it is not well to exalt ourselves and become prideful, for we know that all good things come from God. We must be conscious of our weaknesses, but we know the Lord can use those very weaknesses to bless our lives. What are you so angry about
Mingano? Scripture study might help you.

Andrew52 wrote:What are you so angry about Mingano?

I'm not angry. Not even slightly. This isn't anger that you're seeing.

Mingano, have a squiz at http://www.askmormongirl.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good question on prayers through the main page
Definitely worth a read

AussieOi wrote:Mingano, have a squiz at http://www.askmormongirl.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good question on prayers through the main page
Definitely worth a read

Is this an insinuation of "Mingano" being feminine? Is this the cause of such anger,
gender issues?
Might I suggest sensitivity in revealing this to the forum Aussie!

That's actually kind of amusing. Dem aussies... blood always be rushin' do their head seeing as how they walk upside down as they do.

Andrew52 wrote:Is this an insinuation of "Mingano" being feminine? Is this the cause of such anger,
gender issues?
Might I suggest sensitivity in revealing this to the forum Aussie!

Oh, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on him. If somebody jumps to the conclusion that everything is about gender issues I'm sure there's just a little bit of overcompensation at play.

(Aussie - what you said was out of line)

And wait a second... why is Aussie even reading Joanna Brooks? And to actually recommend her? Uh, no thanks. People need to come closer to the church, not seduced away by that siren.