Jeffrey R. Holland, hard questions...
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marc
- Disciple of Jesus Christ
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Raindrop
- captain of 100
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Re: Jeffrey R. Holland, hard questions...
I wish Holland hadn't made it a little personal there at the end. It wasn't about Holland, after all.
I liked his little model of the plates there on his desk. I have one of those.
I liked his little model of the plates there on his desk. I have one of those.
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ithink
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Jeffrey R. Holland, hard questions...
Then there are the Book of Abraham questions he posed: Elder Holland doesn't seem to realize that Joseph never claimed the papyri were the "vehicle" to transmutate the scrolls into the Book of Abraham as scripture, as Joseph repeatedly said he was "translating" over and over again. There is no doubt, with the alphabet he created and so on, that he was "translating". However, as is now known, the Book of Abraham is not a translation of the scrolls. It just isn't. Not only that, but too bad Joseph gave the urim and thummim back to Moroni, since that likely could have helped. Or, whatever happened to the stone used to translate the Book of Mormon and why want' it used? Because Joseph gave that back to Oliver Cowdery: "After the translation of the Book of Mormon was finished, early in the spring of 1830, before April 6th, Joseph gave the stone to Oliver Cowdery and told me as well as the rest that he was through with it, and he did not use the stone any more." (David Whitmore, Address to All Believers, 1887). What did Oliver do with it, and why didn't anyone ask why it wasn't being used to do the translation?
It took 30 days to translate the Book of Mormon with the seer stone in a hat, but it took months and even years (July 1835 to October 1835) to even start translating the Book of Abraham with nothing at all? Eventually, it was published in 1842, seven years later!
There is a very fair documentary on the subject here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn1iGvXU ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Very sad to see people losing their faith, at the end there. But what can you say to them? The best answer today, from Elder Holland, appears to be just making it up as we go along, but that contradicts Josephs own account of how it came to be.
It took 30 days to translate the Book of Mormon with the seer stone in a hat, but it took months and even years (July 1835 to October 1835) to even start translating the Book of Abraham with nothing at all? Eventually, it was published in 1842, seven years later!
There is a very fair documentary on the subject here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn1iGvXU ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Very sad to see people losing their faith, at the end there. But what can you say to them? The best answer today, from Elder Holland, appears to be just making it up as we go along, but that contradicts Josephs own account of how it came to be.
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captainFreedom
- captain of 10
- Posts: 18
Re: Jeffrey R. Holland, hard questions...
Joseph actually used two stones in the course of his BOM translation - as I recall, one was brownish, the other white. Both are currently in the possession of the church (yes, I know, I need to find a source on this, I believe it was Joseph F. Smith who obtained them.)
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GeeR
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Jeffrey R. Holland, hard questions...
"This seer stone is now in the possession of the church."---"Doctrines of Salvation," vol. lll, Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 225.ithink wrote:What did Oliver do with it?
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Juliette
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Jeffrey R. Holland, hard questions...
A Treasured Testament
Russell M. Nelson
July 1993 Ensign
“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what... ...; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted ‘seers’ in ancient or former times; and...
“By the Gift and Power of God”
Neal A. Maxwell
January 1997 Ensign
..., 2). Martin Harris related of the seer stone: “Sentences would appear and were read...
Spiritual Gifts
Dallin H. Oaks
September 1986 Ensign
...earliest members, was receiving revelations through a seer stone. The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith... ...those things which he has written from that stone are not of me and that Satan...
Seer Stones
Topical Guide
“By the Gift and Power of God”
Richard Lloyd Anderson
September 1977 Ensign
...“He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate... ..., and for convenience he then used the seer stone.”
The Alvin Smith Story: Fact and Fiction
Richard Lloyd Anderson
August 1987 Ensign
...sought supernatural insight through the use of a seer stone. Consequently, his 1833 affidavit contains a...
A Peaceful Heart
September 1974 Friend
...-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone. The translating was done at Peter Whitmer...
Mosiah 28
Book of Mormon
...to preach to the Lamanites—Using the two seer stones, Mosiah translates the Jaredite plates. About...
Lesson 15: The Prophet Receives Revelation for the Church
Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants: Church History
...plates, claimed he had received from a “seer stone.” Hiram Page said he could see... Page said he could see revelations in this stone. Among other things, he said he...
The Day He Gave Me Glasses
Lynette K. Allen
April 1990 New Era
that is a seer-stone of the world.
Russell M. Nelson
July 1993 Ensign
“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what... ...; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted ‘seers’ in ancient or former times; and...
“By the Gift and Power of God”
Neal A. Maxwell
January 1997 Ensign
..., 2). Martin Harris related of the seer stone: “Sentences would appear and were read...
Spiritual Gifts
Dallin H. Oaks
September 1986 Ensign
...earliest members, was receiving revelations through a seer stone. The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith... ...those things which he has written from that stone are not of me and that Satan...
Seer Stones
Topical Guide
“By the Gift and Power of God”
Richard Lloyd Anderson
September 1977 Ensign
...“He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate... ..., and for convenience he then used the seer stone.”
The Alvin Smith Story: Fact and Fiction
Richard Lloyd Anderson
August 1987 Ensign
...sought supernatural insight through the use of a seer stone. Consequently, his 1833 affidavit contains a...
A Peaceful Heart
September 1974 Friend
...-shaped, brown rock for translating called a seer stone. The translating was done at Peter Whitmer...
Mosiah 28
Book of Mormon
...to preach to the Lamanites—Using the two seer stones, Mosiah translates the Jaredite plates. About...
Lesson 15: The Prophet Receives Revelation for the Church
Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants: Church History
...plates, claimed he had received from a “seer stone.” Hiram Page said he could see... Page said he could see revelations in this stone. Among other things, he said he...
The Day He Gave Me Glasses
Lynette K. Allen
April 1990 New Era
that is a seer-stone of the world.
