Testimony meeting today
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cjex
- captain of 100
- Posts: 250
- Location: P-NDUB
- Contact:
Testimony meeting today
Was my ward the only one that went straight from I miss/love President Hinkley to I know that Mitt Romney is true... I couldn't stand it any more. so 3 mentions of Mitt, how was your ward? how many Mitt comments?
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Bircher
- captain of 100
- Posts: 909
- Location: Utah
Thankfully, not a single mention. Though I developed a short response to Sister in my Ward that is sending Mitt emails to my wife because they are in the primary presidency together. Here it is. Hope it is helpful to some of you
I am sending this out to most of my LDS friends and family, because... well, you are my LDS friends and family
I feel that choosing our elected leaders is an important, I would even say a sacred duty. D&C 134:1 says we will be held accountable for our actions in relation to government. This really shows how important it really is to make sure the choice we make is one that will bring blessings to our lives and show our love for God through obedience to that principle.
Joseph F Smith in Gen Conf of April 1946 said, "(I)t is meet that every member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints take the doctrine of Christ into his politics, and that he evaluate every candidate and every platform under any and every political banner in the terms of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If there be any one who would destroy or weaken the Constitution of the United States, oppose him to the limit of your constitutional rights! "
The Savior said, "by their fruits ye shall know them", so putting these things together, I like to look into candidates seeking my support, and look into what they support, and what they have done (their fruits).
The Proclamation on the Family says, "Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan"
As governor, Mitt Romney (I only mention Mitt, because he shares membership in a faith we all hold in common, which may cause some to not investigate his fruits, assuming he shares a majority of our values.) commissioned youth gay pride events, see link (http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/ExecOrders/eo473.rtf) and during the opening serimonies made the statement, "There's no place like Youth Pride". Among his many activities in support of the homosexual agenda, when running for US Senate, he told the Log Cabin Republicans (Gay Republican group) that he wouldbe a bigger supporter of gay rights than Ted Kennedy. (See attached letter)
In an interview found on LDS.org the question was asked to Elder Dallin H Oaks and Elder Lance B. Wickman, "Would you extend the same argument against same-gender marriage to civil unions or some kind of benefits short of marriage?" Elder Wickman responded, "It really doesn’t matter what you call it. If you have some legally sanctioned relationship with the bundle of legal rights traditionally belonging to marriage and governing authority has slapped a label on it, whether it is civil union or domestic partnership or whatever label it’s given, it is nonetheless tantamount to marriage."
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... attraction
Unfortunately, Mitt Romney supports domestic partner benefits and says there is enough of a difference between marriage and civil unions to make civil unions ok.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9086489/
In April 1977, Ezra Taft Benson speaking at BYU said, "Today the party now in power is advocating and has support, apparently in both major parties, for a comprehensive national health insurance program--a euphemism for socialized medicine. Our major danger is that we are currently (and have been for forty years) transferring responsibility from the individual, local, and state governments to the federal government... We cannot long pursue the present trend without its bringing us to national insolvency. "
Unfortunately, Mitt Romney supports mandating (forcing) everyone to have health insurance. Although, thankfully, he does not advocate having the government pay for everyones health insurance, his advocacy of mandates (force), take responsibility off the individual and onto the government for our actions, a violation of one the major reasons God gave us the Constitution, so that we could be accountable for our own sins (actions) D&C 101:78.
The scriptures reveal that God has spoken face to face and through revalation to men throughout the ages, from Samuel to Isaiah in the Old Testament to Paul and Stephen in the New Testament, to Nephi and Moroni in the Book of Mormon and to at least Joseph Smith in this dispensation.
Unfortunately, although Mitt Romney professes to be LDS, he does not share those same views. In an interview with a Boston TV station recently Mitt was asked the difference between his religion and others, and he gave a good answer of telling them to check out LDS.org or the missionaries. However, when he was asked what he do if he or the Prophet received revelation for him in regards to the country, he did not stick to that or similar answer. Mitt Romney's response was, "I don't know that he has spoken to anyone since Moses and the bush or perhaps some others." Video of the interview can be seen at the top right of this link:
http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story.as ... 018d03bf31
Perhaps others? He is not sure? Is he lying or a political opportunist or is he telling the truth when he says he is not sure if God has spoken to anyone since Moses? None of those options is good.
"The ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep's clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood. . . . We should be careful of them. . . ." President J Reuben Clark Jr. Gen Conf April 1949
Wolves are dangerous, but we know to be weary because we know what and who they are. Those that pretend to be our friend are much more dangerous because we invite them in as honored guests, inviting the wolf in sheeps clothing into the hen house, while feeling quite proud of ourselves for being weary of him that is clearly a wolf.
I wont keep this too long, but would be glad to share more with you if you would like. Who should you vote for? The Lord has taught us correct principles, and we should govern ourselves.
I am sending this out to most of my LDS friends and family, because... well, you are my LDS friends and family
I feel that choosing our elected leaders is an important, I would even say a sacred duty. D&C 134:1 says we will be held accountable for our actions in relation to government. This really shows how important it really is to make sure the choice we make is one that will bring blessings to our lives and show our love for God through obedience to that principle.
Joseph F Smith in Gen Conf of April 1946 said, "(I)t is meet that every member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints take the doctrine of Christ into his politics, and that he evaluate every candidate and every platform under any and every political banner in the terms of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If there be any one who would destroy or weaken the Constitution of the United States, oppose him to the limit of your constitutional rights! "
The Savior said, "by their fruits ye shall know them", so putting these things together, I like to look into candidates seeking my support, and look into what they support, and what they have done (their fruits).
The Proclamation on the Family says, "Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan"
As governor, Mitt Romney (I only mention Mitt, because he shares membership in a faith we all hold in common, which may cause some to not investigate his fruits, assuming he shares a majority of our values.) commissioned youth gay pride events, see link (http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/ExecOrders/eo473.rtf) and during the opening serimonies made the statement, "There's no place like Youth Pride". Among his many activities in support of the homosexual agenda, when running for US Senate, he told the Log Cabin Republicans (Gay Republican group) that he wouldbe a bigger supporter of gay rights than Ted Kennedy. (See attached letter)
In an interview found on LDS.org the question was asked to Elder Dallin H Oaks and Elder Lance B. Wickman, "Would you extend the same argument against same-gender marriage to civil unions or some kind of benefits short of marriage?" Elder Wickman responded, "It really doesn’t matter what you call it. If you have some legally sanctioned relationship with the bundle of legal rights traditionally belonging to marriage and governing authority has slapped a label on it, whether it is civil union or domestic partnership or whatever label it’s given, it is nonetheless tantamount to marriage."
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... attraction
Unfortunately, Mitt Romney supports domestic partner benefits and says there is enough of a difference between marriage and civil unions to make civil unions ok.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9086489/
In April 1977, Ezra Taft Benson speaking at BYU said, "Today the party now in power is advocating and has support, apparently in both major parties, for a comprehensive national health insurance program--a euphemism for socialized medicine. Our major danger is that we are currently (and have been for forty years) transferring responsibility from the individual, local, and state governments to the federal government... We cannot long pursue the present trend without its bringing us to national insolvency. "
Unfortunately, Mitt Romney supports mandating (forcing) everyone to have health insurance. Although, thankfully, he does not advocate having the government pay for everyones health insurance, his advocacy of mandates (force), take responsibility off the individual and onto the government for our actions, a violation of one the major reasons God gave us the Constitution, so that we could be accountable for our own sins (actions) D&C 101:78.
The scriptures reveal that God has spoken face to face and through revalation to men throughout the ages, from Samuel to Isaiah in the Old Testament to Paul and Stephen in the New Testament, to Nephi and Moroni in the Book of Mormon and to at least Joseph Smith in this dispensation.
Unfortunately, although Mitt Romney professes to be LDS, he does not share those same views. In an interview with a Boston TV station recently Mitt was asked the difference between his religion and others, and he gave a good answer of telling them to check out LDS.org or the missionaries. However, when he was asked what he do if he or the Prophet received revelation for him in regards to the country, he did not stick to that or similar answer. Mitt Romney's response was, "I don't know that he has spoken to anyone since Moses and the bush or perhaps some others." Video of the interview can be seen at the top right of this link:
http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story.as ... 018d03bf31
Perhaps others? He is not sure? Is he lying or a political opportunist or is he telling the truth when he says he is not sure if God has spoken to anyone since Moses? None of those options is good.
"The ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep's clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood. . . . We should be careful of them. . . ." President J Reuben Clark Jr. Gen Conf April 1949
Wolves are dangerous, but we know to be weary because we know what and who they are. Those that pretend to be our friend are much more dangerous because we invite them in as honored guests, inviting the wolf in sheeps clothing into the hen house, while feeling quite proud of ourselves for being weary of him that is clearly a wolf.
I wont keep this too long, but would be glad to share more with you if you would like. Who should you vote for? The Lord has taught us correct principles, and we should govern ourselves.
-
AussieOi
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6137
- Location: Sydney, Australia
>>>>>>>[quote="Bircher"]Thankfully, not a single mention. Though I developed a short response to Sister in my Ward that
great stuff. must include the youtube of mitt saying he know's plenty of church leaders who are pro-choice as well, its on a thread here somewhere.
that will spook morbot LDS who think republican = pro life anti gay while democrat = pro choice/ gay marriage .
thanks mitt for exposing the ignorance stupidity and naivety of too many LDS. clearly IRaq and Cheney at BYU didn't .
mitt romney , might be a nice guy, but what a joke as a defender of LDS principles and the constitution.
great stuff. must include the youtube of mitt saying he know's plenty of church leaders who are pro-choice as well, its on a thread here somewhere.
that will spook morbot LDS who think republican = pro life anti gay while democrat = pro choice/ gay marriage .
thanks mitt for exposing the ignorance stupidity and naivety of too many LDS. clearly IRaq and Cheney at BYU didn't .
mitt romney , might be a nice guy, but what a joke as a defender of LDS principles and the constitution.
-
lundbaek
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 11123
- Location: Mesa, Arizona
Bircher, I am anxiously waiting to read the reply to your email to that sweet sister in the primary presidency of your ward. I wonder if she will accuse you of trashing a good honourable priesthood holder who is the only candidate capable of receiving guidance from --- oops, but God doesn't speak to man any more since Moses in the bush, does He.
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CHH
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2491
- Location: Nevada
LOL!!!!!!lundbaek wrote:Bircher, I am anxiously waiting to read the reply to your email to that sweet sister in the primary presidency of your ward. I wonder if she will accuse you of trashing a good honourable priesthood holder who is the only candidate capable of receiving guidance from --- oops, but God doesn't speak to man any more since Moses in the bush, does He.
-
Bircher
- captain of 100
- Posts: 909
- Location: Utah
Here is one of many responses I have have passed on back to me. I find it funny:
"Unfortunately, your friend has not been listening very closely to the current race or to politics over the last number of years. Further, to attack a someone like this with weak and ignorant arguments only shows how out of touch, uneducated and shallow his thinking is...too bad.
Romney has answered these issues over and over again, but some people are so blinded by their own self-righteousness, ignorance and piety to listen. Turner is misleading with his quotes, false inferences, and seems to be just another myopic single-issue voter. I'd take it apart, but won't waste my time with such nonsense.
Like it or not, Romney is the most conservative choice tomorrow and perhaps in November. Voting for non-viable candidates will make one feel good, but will only result in a more liberal government. What is our objective anyway?
You deserve better friends, that's why I'll still keep you on my Christmas card list.
"
"Unfortunately, your friend has not been listening very closely to the current race or to politics over the last number of years. Further, to attack a someone like this with weak and ignorant arguments only shows how out of touch, uneducated and shallow his thinking is...too bad.
Romney has answered these issues over and over again, but some people are so blinded by their own self-righteousness, ignorance and piety to listen. Turner is misleading with his quotes, false inferences, and seems to be just another myopic single-issue voter. I'd take it apart, but won't waste my time with such nonsense.
Like it or not, Romney is the most conservative choice tomorrow and perhaps in November. Voting for non-viable candidates will make one feel good, but will only result in a more liberal government. What is our objective anyway?
You deserve better friends, that's why I'll still keep you on my Christmas card list.
"-
Bircher
- captain of 100
- Posts: 909
- Location: Utah
More responses to the letter I wrote exposing Mitt
I am surprised at your response. You don't seem like a man that makes
snap judgments about people. I am sorry you in turn may use your
influence and inaccurate perception with other folks without really
knowing what this is all about. Have you possibly read the book, "A
Mormon in the White House?" written by a non Mormon. If you had read
it you would understand much more about the real Mitt Romney than you
now know. The letter you forwarded to us from your friend Bryan
Turner is full of inaccuracies. He does not know Mitt Romney and what
his true values are.
I really think you should research, study out and pray about your
decision to support another candidate. Romney is the ONLY true
conservative left in the running.
John McCain as you know is not a conservative and does not value what
America has always stood for and what we as the Republican Party want
to keep. McCain will not stop illegal immigration but it will
dramatically increase. His voting record shows just how liberal he
is. If McCain is chosen as the Republican candidate for President,
the Republican Party will be lost. Ask others that are well informed,
how they will vote if McCain is chosen to be the Republican candidate
for the coming election. I highly respect Ron Paul for his values
and commitment, but he is not in the fore front. He is a good man but
he cannot become president at this time. Huckabee is staying in the
"race" to split the vote so Romney won't win. Please rethink your
decision. Romney is NOT for same sex marriage and definitely is
pro-life and pro traditional marriage (between a man and a woman).
Also another thing I think is worthy of consideration at least by
members of the church is that Mitt Romney has served as an LDS Bishop
and also Stake President.
----------------------
You've got to give it a little time. These are very significant
issues. At least indicate what his answers are or where we may find
them. Better for homosexual rights than Kennedy and God has not talk
to man sense Moses are very important issues. What or where are his
responses?
------------------
Thanks for the send. However, I would ask that you reconsider your
position on Romney. Thank heavens that you and I belong to a Church that
teaches one can change. The church teaches that! I believe Romney has
changed and for the right reasons. If we as members of the church go
around
with this "holier then thou" attitude, and that one can never change from
their past, we are ultimately going to be saying that we support the
democrats winning, because that is what will happen.
The reason the media is so strongly behind McCain is because they do not
believe he can beat Hillary or Obama (per Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and
others), and even if he did, he is so liberal it doesn't matter anyway.
Christ came to make it possible for all of us to change. Romney has
changed, and he has openly admitted his mistakes from the past,
something no
other candidate has ever done (admitting when their wrong). Usually those
candidates will just try and justify their position, etc.
Romney is the only candidate that has real executive experience,
business
experience, and budgeting experience, and he is LDS. He is NOT a wolf in
sheeps clothing. He has all the qualifications to make a difference in
Washington. He is the only one that can do it. "They" (the media)
are all
against him. That alone should tell you something. Plus, the other
Republican candidates do not stand a chance against the liberal machine.
Mark my words, if Romney does not get the Republican nomination, we
will see
the Democrats take full control of this country. Are you ready for that?
My position did not happen by chance. I have studied this more then any
election in my life. I know full well Romney's past record and
position on
these critical issues, that is why it has taken me months to finally
come on
board with him. I did not make my choice until I had studied everything,
especially his position on abortion and homosexual issues. And honestly
(since you and I are members) I did not make my decision until I had
come to
"know" that he is the best choice against the evil liberal machine. Is he
perfect? Of course not, but we (you and I) aren't either. Again, I
believe
he has changed, PLUS he has all the qualifications to fix broken
Washington.
I believe Romney has been placed here to see if the members of the
church
can see through it all and unite. If they choose anyone but him they are
really choosing McCain, Obama, or Hillary, and we know where these 3 stand
on these critical issues. Unlike Romney, they will not change.
I also believe Romney has been placed here to see if the
"Christians" can
get beyond their anti-Mormon bias and bigotry. You watch, Huckabee
will not
drop out of the race. They are dangling the VP for McCain in front of
him.
He will remain to purposely split the conservative vote, and help McCain
win. When it comes to the final analysis, who would you rather have in
office, Romney or McCain? Romney or Obama? Romney or Hillary?
Well, thanks again for the send and for listening. Regardless of
where it
all ends up, I am glad to have you as a friend. I completely respect
where
you stand and what you believe.
--------------
Thanks again for this send too. I want to share a few things with you,
and I am only responding to you on this, not to all. Time will not permit
in this forum, but I would like you to consider a few things.
We should never "want" to go to war with anyone, but sometimes we
have no
choice. Do you realize that in the Book of Mormon, and after Captain
Moroni
had hoisted the "Title of Liberty," that anyone of their people that
did not
support the cause of freedom were put to death? (Alma 51:7,13-20) A
lot of
members of the church do not realize this.
If it were not for the UN we would have finished the 91 Gulf
Conflict in a
proper way. But because of the wickedness of the UN and not wanting to
fight, the poor Kurds were slaughtered after we pulled out. Saddam
Hussein
should have been finished off a long time ago. The Lord be thanked that
this wicked man finally died an "Ignominious" death, and that his reign of
terror is over. (Thanks to our final invasion of Iraq.)
I have some good friends who are directly involved in Afghanistan and
Iraq. The cause of freedom is going forward and the terrible
terrorists are
being thwarted. The people there are so grateful for our help. There is
even the possibility of the gospel going there. You never hear this
because
the liberal media does not want you to know that we are being successful
there. Even many members of the church are against freedom going to the
Iraqis, and purport all kinds of conspiracies. Yes, there are
problems, but
what cause of freedom comes free?
When Ammoron was fighting against the Nephites, he had been warned by
Moroni multiple times (kind of like the 18 UN resolutions that Hussein
ignored) Finally, Captain Moroni told him that he would take his
armies and
even "arm my women and my children" and "we will FOLLOW you into your own
land" and we will not stop until you have been "destroyed from off the
face
of the earth." (Alma 54:4-14)
I do not want my boys to go to war, but I do not want my boys to live in
fear and slavery. The cause of freedom comes with a terrible price,
but it
must be fought for and paid for, or we all lose and Satan wins. As
long as
there is a Satan, there will be war. Like Captain Moroni we must
stand and
fight for freedom. And as 9-11 has taught us, we are on a global
level, we
must fight on all fronts, not just at home. (time will not permit to talk
about North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) The Scriptures are clear
that if all men (especially members of the church) were like Captain
Moroni,
the very "powers of hell" would be shaken.
I am surprised at your response. You don't seem like a man that makes
snap judgments about people. I am sorry you in turn may use your
influence and inaccurate perception with other folks without really
knowing what this is all about. Have you possibly read the book, "A
Mormon in the White House?" written by a non Mormon. If you had read
it you would understand much more about the real Mitt Romney than you
now know. The letter you forwarded to us from your friend Bryan
Turner is full of inaccuracies. He does not know Mitt Romney and what
his true values are.
I really think you should research, study out and pray about your
decision to support another candidate. Romney is the ONLY true
conservative left in the running.
John McCain as you know is not a conservative and does not value what
America has always stood for and what we as the Republican Party want
to keep. McCain will not stop illegal immigration but it will
dramatically increase. His voting record shows just how liberal he
is. If McCain is chosen as the Republican candidate for President,
the Republican Party will be lost. Ask others that are well informed,
how they will vote if McCain is chosen to be the Republican candidate
for the coming election. I highly respect Ron Paul for his values
and commitment, but he is not in the fore front. He is a good man but
he cannot become president at this time. Huckabee is staying in the
"race" to split the vote so Romney won't win. Please rethink your
decision. Romney is NOT for same sex marriage and definitely is
pro-life and pro traditional marriage (between a man and a woman).
Also another thing I think is worthy of consideration at least by
members of the church is that Mitt Romney has served as an LDS Bishop
and also Stake President.
----------------------
You've got to give it a little time. These are very significant
issues. At least indicate what his answers are or where we may find
them. Better for homosexual rights than Kennedy and God has not talk
to man sense Moses are very important issues. What or where are his
responses?
------------------
Thanks for the send. However, I would ask that you reconsider your
position on Romney. Thank heavens that you and I belong to a Church that
teaches one can change. The church teaches that! I believe Romney has
changed and for the right reasons. If we as members of the church go
around
with this "holier then thou" attitude, and that one can never change from
their past, we are ultimately going to be saying that we support the
democrats winning, because that is what will happen.
The reason the media is so strongly behind McCain is because they do not
believe he can beat Hillary or Obama (per Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and
others), and even if he did, he is so liberal it doesn't matter anyway.
Christ came to make it possible for all of us to change. Romney has
changed, and he has openly admitted his mistakes from the past,
something no
other candidate has ever done (admitting when their wrong). Usually those
candidates will just try and justify their position, etc.
Romney is the only candidate that has real executive experience,
business
experience, and budgeting experience, and he is LDS. He is NOT a wolf in
sheeps clothing. He has all the qualifications to make a difference in
Washington. He is the only one that can do it. "They" (the media)
are all
against him. That alone should tell you something. Plus, the other
Republican candidates do not stand a chance against the liberal machine.
Mark my words, if Romney does not get the Republican nomination, we
will see
the Democrats take full control of this country. Are you ready for that?
My position did not happen by chance. I have studied this more then any
election in my life. I know full well Romney's past record and
position on
these critical issues, that is why it has taken me months to finally
come on
board with him. I did not make my choice until I had studied everything,
especially his position on abortion and homosexual issues. And honestly
(since you and I are members) I did not make my decision until I had
come to
"know" that he is the best choice against the evil liberal machine. Is he
perfect? Of course not, but we (you and I) aren't either. Again, I
believe
he has changed, PLUS he has all the qualifications to fix broken
Washington.
I believe Romney has been placed here to see if the members of the
church
can see through it all and unite. If they choose anyone but him they are
really choosing McCain, Obama, or Hillary, and we know where these 3 stand
on these critical issues. Unlike Romney, they will not change.
I also believe Romney has been placed here to see if the
"Christians" can
get beyond their anti-Mormon bias and bigotry. You watch, Huckabee
will not
drop out of the race. They are dangling the VP for McCain in front of
him.
He will remain to purposely split the conservative vote, and help McCain
win. When it comes to the final analysis, who would you rather have in
office, Romney or McCain? Romney or Obama? Romney or Hillary?
Well, thanks again for the send and for listening. Regardless of
where it
all ends up, I am glad to have you as a friend. I completely respect
where
you stand and what you believe.
--------------
Thanks again for this send too. I want to share a few things with you,
and I am only responding to you on this, not to all. Time will not permit
in this forum, but I would like you to consider a few things.
We should never "want" to go to war with anyone, but sometimes we
have no
choice. Do you realize that in the Book of Mormon, and after Captain
Moroni
had hoisted the "Title of Liberty," that anyone of their people that
did not
support the cause of freedom were put to death? (Alma 51:7,13-20) A
lot of
members of the church do not realize this.
If it were not for the UN we would have finished the 91 Gulf
Conflict in a
proper way. But because of the wickedness of the UN and not wanting to
fight, the poor Kurds were slaughtered after we pulled out. Saddam
Hussein
should have been finished off a long time ago. The Lord be thanked that
this wicked man finally died an "Ignominious" death, and that his reign of
terror is over. (Thanks to our final invasion of Iraq.)
I have some good friends who are directly involved in Afghanistan and
Iraq. The cause of freedom is going forward and the terrible
terrorists are
being thwarted. The people there are so grateful for our help. There is
even the possibility of the gospel going there. You never hear this
because
the liberal media does not want you to know that we are being successful
there. Even many members of the church are against freedom going to the
Iraqis, and purport all kinds of conspiracies. Yes, there are
problems, but
what cause of freedom comes free?
When Ammoron was fighting against the Nephites, he had been warned by
Moroni multiple times (kind of like the 18 UN resolutions that Hussein
ignored) Finally, Captain Moroni told him that he would take his
armies and
even "arm my women and my children" and "we will FOLLOW you into your own
land" and we will not stop until you have been "destroyed from off the
face
of the earth." (Alma 54:4-14)
I do not want my boys to go to war, but I do not want my boys to live in
fear and slavery. The cause of freedom comes with a terrible price,
but it
must be fought for and paid for, or we all lose and Satan wins. As
long as
there is a Satan, there will be war. Like Captain Moroni we must
stand and
fight for freedom. And as 9-11 has taught us, we are on a global
level, we
must fight on all fronts, not just at home. (time will not permit to talk
about North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) The Scriptures are clear
that if all men (especially members of the church) were like Captain
Moroni,
the very "powers of hell" would be shaken.
-
Chip
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7981
- Location: California
Wow, Bircher!
I feel for you. Such insolence is distressing. Don't get discouraged. I'm learning that some people just don't want to know the truth about things because of the discomfiture it would cause. They are hosed!
Here is a great video a BYU student made recently that can point us back to a gospel perspective on current events. This might get some of those people you know thinking a little differently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za0CGpar09o
Also, I recently read a book by Gary Allen (author of None Dare Call It Conspiracy) called "Say 'No!' to the New World Order". This book blows away every other one I've read on the subject, especially since it was written in 1986 and is dead-on about things going on today (the cast has hardly changed). That book would be powerful medicine for anyone who is willing to read. Once people get the big picture, it's easy for them to see the distinction between Ron Paul and all those Establishment lap dogs.
I feel for you. Such insolence is distressing. Don't get discouraged. I'm learning that some people just don't want to know the truth about things because of the discomfiture it would cause. They are hosed!
Here is a great video a BYU student made recently that can point us back to a gospel perspective on current events. This might get some of those people you know thinking a little differently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za0CGpar09o
Also, I recently read a book by Gary Allen (author of None Dare Call It Conspiracy) called "Say 'No!' to the New World Order". This book blows away every other one I've read on the subject, especially since it was written in 1986 and is dead-on about things going on today (the cast has hardly changed). That book would be powerful medicine for anyone who is willing to read. Once people get the big picture, it's easy for them to see the distinction between Ron Paul and all those Establishment lap dogs.
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lundbaek
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 11123
- Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Lamanite Descendant
- captain of 100
- Posts: 136
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Well guys, I don't know what to say. I am becoming increasingly agitated by members of our church who think this way or put more accurately, don't think.
Is this a form of apostasy?
So many hypocrites and so many deceived.
I am grateful to see what I can see.
Like Aussie put it, its not about why they cant see it, its about why I can see it.
I wonder why a person so unworthy as myself has been given this privilege.
Is this a form of apostasy?
So many hypocrites and so many deceived.
I am grateful to see what I can see.
Like Aussie put it, its not about why they cant see it, its about why I can see it.
I wonder why a person so unworthy as myself has been given this privilege.
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Proud 2b Peculiar
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5560
- Location: American Fork, Utah
That was great, thank you! I posted it in a bulletin, blog, and on my page.Chip wrote:Wow, Bircher!
I feel for you. Such insolence is distressing. Don't get discouraged. I'm learning that some people just don't want to know the truth about things because of the discomfiture it would cause. They are hosed!
Here is a great video a BYU student made recently that can point us back to a gospel perspective on current events. This might get some of those people you know thinking a little differently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za0CGpar09o
Also, I recently read a book by Gary Allen (author of None Dare Call It Conspiracy) called "Say 'No!' to the New World Order". This book blows away every other one I've read on the subject, especially since it was written in 1986 and is dead-on about things going on today (the cast has hardly changed). That book would be powerful medicine for anyone who is willing to read. Once people get the big picture, it's easy for them to see the distinction between Ron Paul and all those Establishment lap dogs.
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AussieOi
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6137
- Location: Sydney, Australia
>>>>>>>>>> [quote="Bircher"]More responses to the letter I wrote exposing Mitt
your friends are all idiots. they' also dangerous.
vote 1 for the new world order.
i'm not bothered that people like this are allowed to vote, just disturbed that they are allowed to breed.
what future have you got.
what a mess.
never mind wolves amongst us, how about idiots amongst us.
your friends are all idiots. they' also dangerous.
vote 1 for the new world order.
i'm not bothered that people like this are allowed to vote, just disturbed that they are allowed to breed.
what future have you got.
what a mess.
never mind wolves amongst us, how about idiots amongst us.
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AussieOi
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6137
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Lamanite Descendant wrote:Well guys, I don't know what to say. I am becoming increasingly agitated by members of our church who think this way or put more accurately, don't think.
Is this a form of apostasy?
So many hypocrites and so many deceived.
I am grateful to see what I can see.
Like Aussie put it, its not about why they cant see it, its about why I can see it.
I wonder why a person so unworthy as myself has been given this privilege.
why "increasingly"?
Most members always were simple.
heck, most people are gullible, manipulable, selfish, ignorant and predictable. Americans even more so (sorry guys, is true) why should you expect the US LDS to be any different?
as to your final comments, well, you deep thinker, must be the water eh.
a lot of thought and late night discussions went into that signature.
why you as LDS? why you having holy ghost? why you having priesthood? why you have a temple marriage and temple promises? out of ALL the people on earth, why you. why me?
read that kabbalah book you linked to me. read 1st 50 pages. d&c. laws predicated. we're doing, or we did, something specific.
clues; intelligence, attain, take.
who were we?
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ChelC
- The Law
- Posts: 5982
- Location: Utah
Okay, I just typed a response and my two year old found a neat button that deleted it in one shot.
In short, examine the battles of Captain Moroni to uncover the motives of the war and then honestly compare and contrast them to us and the Iraq war. Not the propaganda because every war has always been sold in the same way, but the reality. It shouldn't be hard to make the case. Motive is the key. Do the actions of our government in the war, and in its legislative affairs show that its cause is simply to fight for our own right to exist and be free?
I don't really need to answer that.
In short, examine the battles of Captain Moroni to uncover the motives of the war and then honestly compare and contrast them to us and the Iraq war. Not the propaganda because every war has always been sold in the same way, but the reality. It shouldn't be hard to make the case. Motive is the key. Do the actions of our government in the war, and in its legislative affairs show that its cause is simply to fight for our own right to exist and be free?
I don't really need to answer that.
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ChelC
- The Law
- Posts: 5982
- Location: Utah
Hey Aussie, you really need to listen to "The American Challenge" by Pres. Benson. Primarily the point he makes is that any member of the church should seek to protect America (not our government, but our liberty) because it's our base of operations which we should always protect in battle. As a church if the nation goes down it's a huge blow to us, and only the Savior himself will be able to rescue man from that mess.
You have a right and a reason to attack Americans, but your seeming delight in our destruction is a problem if you love the gospel. Just a thought, I thought lovingly of you as I listened to that talk by President Benson yesterday. I'm not being sarcastic either or even snotty, I really think you should listen to it because you would benefit, and your message to Americans would be even more powerful if you did.
You have a right and a reason to attack Americans, but your seeming delight in our destruction is a problem if you love the gospel. Just a thought, I thought lovingly of you as I listened to that talk by President Benson yesterday. I'm not being sarcastic either or even snotty, I really think you should listen to it because you would benefit, and your message to Americans would be even more powerful if you did.
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Mark
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6929
Here are some words of wisdom from Sis. Thomas excellent talk about developing the spirit of at-one-ment that may help my friends from down under. They are words to live by no matter what our situations may be, even in the often distateful arena of politics.
In my experience as a member of a troubled family, these are some of the things I learned to do without realizing I was learning them: I learned to try controlling other people, I learned to be critical in order to feel more secure in my own self-righteousness, and I learned to require satisfaction from others' behavior. I wanted certain responses from people, and if I didn't get them I was unhappy or angry. I learned to use anger as manipulation. I learned to be very self-assertive, to try to prove myself in every situation. I learned to make trouble by letting people know the various ways they were not meeting my expectations. I learned to use irritability, cold silences, and not-so-subtle barbed words to "get even." I learned to try to talk others into things, to make them what I wanted them to be, and these people came to feel like my enemies.
The result of this behavior was that I experienced a lot of unfocused fear in my life: I experienced depression, feelings of guilt about my inconsistent behavior, and a sense of meaninglessness in life. But here is one of the main points I want to make about establishing Zion. I did not see a relationship between the way I treated other people and the way I felt inside. I thought that what they were doing made me unhappy; but it was how I was reacting and what I was doing that made me unhappy. Much of the emotional pain that we have does not come from the love that we were not given in the past, but from the love we ourselves are not giving in the present. That principle could be of so much help to people who have come from abusive families, if they realized that part of getting well has to do with learning how to love now.
Nevertheless, the reality of telestial life is that nearly every day someone will do one or more of the following: belittle us, be insensitive to our needs, show indifference to us, make us feel insecure, humiliate us, frighten us, abuse us, inconvenience us, make demands of us, criticize us, disappoint us, lie to us, hurt us, betray us, try to seduce us, misunderstand us, resent us, threaten us, or attack us verbally or physically. But how are we ever going to learn Christlike love unless we have a chance to practice in the face of opposites! Every disrupted relationship, whether in our own homes or out in the marketplace, is a chance to forge the divine nature in us and prepare us for that endless day of happiness...
Joseph Smith said some wonderful things about this. He said that it is "by union of feeling [that] we obtain power with God."2 Every husband and wife knows that. Every missionary companion knows that. When we pool this positive energy, let go of our own personal ego agendas, and are much more interested in meshing with each other for higher purposes, we realize that we do tap a power of God.
The Prophet also said, "Nothing is so much calculated to lead people to forsake sin as to take them by the hand, and watch over them with tenderness. When persons manifest the least kindness and love to me, O what power it has over my mind, while the opposite course has a tendency to harrow up all the harsh feelings and depress the human mind."3 Then he said, "It is the doctrine of the devil to retard the human mind, and hinder our progress, by filling us with self-righteousness. The nearer we get to our heavenly Father, the more we are disposed to look with compassion on perishing souls; we feel that we want to take them upon our shoulders, and cast their sins behind our backs. . . . If you would have God have mercy on you, have mercy on one another."4 So whenever I have an encounter with any person I can generate the spirit of the at-one-ment through listening to him or her with empathy, offering encouragement, and feeling for the Spirit of the Lord and invoking that Spirit in my own mind. I can influence the atmosphere I live in...
When we live in patience, love, and peace with each other, interacting with those around us, not resisting but supporting and forgiving each other, speaking the words that evoke the Spirit, encouraging the positive that is in every person we know, no matter what his or her weaknesses are, we live the spirit of at-one-ment with each other. The more we make each relationship sweeter and more tender and dear, the more we live at-one-ment. The more we lay down pride and old checklists of hurts and grievances, the more we send out healing, the more our relationships heal. We have to practice at-one-ment so that we will know how to act, should we make it into heaven.
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creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8296
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
where can i find it?
I don't think I've ever heard of "The American Challenge" by President Benson... where can I find it?you really need to listen to "The American Challenge" by Pres. Benson.
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ChelC
- The Law
- Posts: 5982
- Location: Utah
http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=1640
You will love it! I cannot find text for it, but it should be somewhere in that great abyss, because in part of the talk he asks that something be included in the text version.
It's about 45 minutes or so and powerful every minute.
You will love it! I cannot find text for it, but it should be somewhere in that great abyss, because in part of the talk he asks that something be included in the text version.
It's about 45 minutes or so and powerful every minute.
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CHH
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2491
- Location: Nevada
Hel. 6: 38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.Lamanite Descendant wrote:Well guys, I don't know what to say. I am becoming increasingly agitated by members of our church who think this way or put more accurately, don't think.
Is this a form of apostasy?
So many hypocrites and so many deceived.
I am grateful to see what I can see.
Like Aussie put it, its not about why they cant see it, its about why I can see it.
I wonder why a person so unworthy as myself has been given this privilege.
Why are we to read the Book of Mormon?
So we can know what is GOING to happen in these last days.
Remember: "MORE PART OF THE RIGHTEOUS."
MOST Mormons are Latter-day Tories that support the New King George. they are voluntary Socialists and if told Socialism would end would WEEP at the loss of it. They are seduced. That is just how it is.
Reminds me of Mark Twain:
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform."
"Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience ..." – John Locke, 2nd Treatise on Government Ch. 19 par. 222
Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God.
Wake up and STOP PAYING THEIR TITHING. Until you do YOU ARE SEDUCED TOO!
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ChelC
- The Law
- Posts: 5982
- Location: Utah
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CHH
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2491
- Location: Nevada
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AussieOi
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6137
- Location: Sydney, Australia
ChelC wrote:Hey Aussie, you really need to listen to "The American Challenge" by Pres. Benson. Primarily the point he makes is that any member of the church should seek to protect America (not our government, but our liberty) because it's our base of operations which we should always protect in battle. As a church if the nation goes down it's a huge blow to us, and only the Savior himself will be able to rescue man from that mess.
You have a right and a reason to attack Americans, but your seeming delight in our destruction is a problem if you love the gospel. Just a thought, I thought lovingly of you as I listened to that talk by President Benson yesterday. I'm not being sarcastic either or even snotty, I really think you should listen to it because you would benefit, and your message to Americans would be even more powerful if you did.
I agree I ham it up for effect , but I do find it a bit rich being told to bow down and worship this imperial america, especially when it HAS 30 MILITARY BASES IN MY COUNTRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yessa boss, yessa master, pick some more cotton for you boss, glass of ice tea? mustafa.
as for the following long email quoting me to have love humility and so on, here's a quote.....
>>>The result of this behavior was that I experienced a lot of unfocused fear in my life: I experienced depression,
THAT'S IT!!!!. its mine, iraqi's , afghani's, somalians, and the other 160 nations, we need to look inwardly! stop delighting in americas deterioration
sorry, we have every right not to support the idol and beast the US is. the Book of Mormon says it will be taken away and given to a more worthy people. maybe that's the polynesians? or Chinese, or russians. who says I barrack for the wrong team?
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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 6047
- Location: Driven
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Lamanite Descendant
- captain of 100
- Posts: 136
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Aussie, Ive had a quick read of that book, Ill read it a bit more thoroughly. But yep, I think you're onto something with stuff we did or developed before we came here. Must've been something specific since blessings are given by obedience to the law they are predicated to.
I think obtaining this awareness of our situation is inline with why the lord taught in parables. Hidden in plain sight and only those who genuinely want to know will find out ...ask and ye shall receive... The people who aren't receiving aren't asking.
These people in these letter replies are the idiots defending the status quo, protecting the beast.
You're all right CHH. That scripture nails it Hel. 6: 38 thank you for posting it, that confirms to me a lot of what I have been feeling lately. I guess all we can do is try make them see and still try love them. I myself have to get past the frustration I feel towards these people.CHH wrote:Hel. 6: 38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.Lamanite Descendant wrote:Well guys, I don't know what to say. I am becoming increasingly agitated by members of our church who think this way or put more accurately, don't think.
Is this a form of apostasy?
So many hypocrites and so many deceived.
I am grateful to see what I can see.
Like Aussie put it, its not about why they cant see it, its about why I can see it.
I wonder why a person so unworthy as myself has been given this privilege.
Why are we to read the Book of Mormon?
So we can know what is GOING to happen in these last days.
Remember: "MORE PART OF THE RIGHTEOUS."
MOST Mormons are Latter-day Tories that support the New King George. they are voluntary Socialists and if told Socialism would end would WEEP at the loss of it. They are seduced. That is just how it is.
Reminds me of Mark Twain:
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform."
"Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience ..." – John Locke, 2nd Treatise on Government Ch. 19 par. 222
Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God.
Wake up and STOP PAYING THEIR TITHING. Until you do YOU ARE SEDUCED TOO!
I think obtaining this awareness of our situation is inline with why the lord taught in parables. Hidden in plain sight and only those who genuinely want to know will find out ...ask and ye shall receive... The people who aren't receiving aren't asking.
These people in these letter replies are the idiots defending the status quo, protecting the beast.
"many of them are so hopelessly dependent on the System they will fight to defend it."
