Partaking in the spoils

[mes5464]

Helaman 6:
38... the Nephites did build [the Gadiantons] up and support them... until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

I have been asking myself how do we partake in the spoils today, and how do we build them up and support them?
This is what I have come up with so far.

Partake of their spoils:
1. Investments (buying stock in Babylonian companies)
2. Socialist programs (receiving welfare, food stamps, unemployment, medicare/medicaid, etc)
3. Public schools

Support them:
1. Banking (participating in the Babylonian banking system)
2. Taxes (paying taxes that support socialist programs and pay for unjust wars)
3. Student loans

Anyone else care to add to this list?

* 07/01/12 - I added the public school and student loans as suggested.

[sbsion]

any govt. check? :ymdevil: )

[karend77]

Article of Faith 12
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Like it or not, paying taxes is part of obeying the law. Just try not paying them and see what doo-doo you get into. I don't mind my taxes going to truly needy or poor people for a program like WIC either. The problem is that relying on those programs has gone from a short term to solution to a lifestyle for so many. People feel it is their right to receive money from the govt. and so they stop trying to do it own their own first.

Had a sweet niece whose husband couldnt find work for a few months. They relied mostly on savings, food storage, neighbors but she had just had a baby so they used the WIC program until he could find a job.

We need to be careful to not be so isolationist or so judgemental about things.

[marc]

Render unto Caesar....

[BroJones]

I would add in our day now-- Student loans, as "partaking in the spoils" and getting burdened by the whole Gadianton system. Coming out of college with a huge debt PROFITS the colleges and universities, but puts a person in a hole so deep he is basically FORCED to work. A lot. And pay more taxes because he HAS to earn more to pay his DEBTS!

What a racket!

[sbsion]

that which is constitutional

[Still Learning]

"partake of their spoils". When I think of this my list could go on and on. Their spoils are everywhere we look. Inasmuch as we set our hearts on any of the vain things of the world, we are partaking of the spoils of an evil system run by MDG's. I myself am guilty and have awakened to how much I let it control me - from nice cars and houses to fine clothing and jewelry to any other vain thing we set our Hearts upon for our own pride and our own glory, seeking after the respect of our fellow man. I have been extremely blessed to have excess and so many times I have set my heart on the spoils of Babylon. I personally have recognized so many of these things in my own life and can testify of the true joy one receives when he rids his life of them and takes control of his own thoughts and worldly desires. I have many acquaintances and friends both members and non that are so wrapped up in partaking of the spoils that it saddens me...it saddens me because of our greed, it saddens me because we have as a nation turned away from God in our prosperity and it scares me the process of humility that lies ahead for our nation, people and church members. How awful it is that all we care (as a majority of Americans) about is making more money to buy more stuff to outdo our friends and neighbors or to satisfy our own thirst for vain things that we cannot take with us as we turn our backs on the poor.

We support the MDG's each day we spend trying to do nothing more than to seek after our own personal gain than uphold righteous laws and politicians. It isn't a coincidence that the majority of our politicians are corrupt and they somehow get re-elected to their posts. We make acceptance for their evil ways to get our own personal gain. We don't take time as a nation to individually study it out and support those who will strengthen our constitution and individual liberties...we are either to busy working for our own gain or we support their evil ways for our own gain.

Here are some thoughts that I try to ask myself as a sort of "humility check" that I feel relate to this topic:

Do I care what people think about the car I drive...the clothes I wear, etc.?
Do I hesitate to share my LDS faith in God (I work with mostly non-LDS)?
What am I working for, to buy the next big thing, or to build up Zion (I'm no longer saving for cars and vacations, but missions)?
Am I jealous of my neighbor for his success or covetess of his ...?
Do I do/say things to set myself up as greater than those around me?
This list goes on...I ask the questions because I was either once guilty or it has become apparent that they are common in our society.

I'm not sure why I share all this other than to do it as part of my own repentance and help continue to remove myself from partaking of the spoils of Babylon and the MDG's. Sometimes it seems so hard. The more you look the more you feel entrenched in a world filled with false Gods and false sense of security/happiness. Everywhere we look we are surrounded by excess. Food, cars, clothing, and anything else that takes our time away from focusing on our eternal purpose. I am certain that this "age of excess" is coming to an end for the world. We have turned our backs on God, we mock him in our entertainment and political arenas and surely his anger is kindled against the wicked of this world and those that give for a thing of naught the food and goods they consume on a daily basis. We are nothing without God. We owe him every for every ounce of strength we have to work and enjoy life, even the very breath of air we take in. May god have mercy on the righteous people in this world and upon the people of this church that have received the truth and the ordinances and have been deceived by the world in whatever way it may be. I hope and pray we can all continue to awaken to our awful situation and stand together to build up Zion and fulfill whatever role our God has given each one of us. I put myself first and make no accusation without first condemning myself in my own guilt. I hope and pray that through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ I am forgiven and I hope and pray that this once great nation can turn back to the God that made it great. Down with Babylon and welcome Zion!

[lost ark]

Voting for and taking advantage of so-called free or reduced rate tuition at colleges that is funded by taxes. Same could be said for public schools.

The early LDS chose to send their children to free government schools over having to pay tuition for LDS schools. People today choose to send their children to government schools when they clearly have the option of homeschooling with little government interference.

But yeah, it's going to cost you some money. Unless you go the free-government-online-school-at-home-and-we'll-give-you-a-free-laptop route.

[wolfman]

"partake of their spoils". When I think of this my list could go on and on. Their spoils are everywhere we look. Inasmuch as we set our hearts on any of the vain things of the world, we are partaking of the spoils of an evil system run by MDG's. I myself am guilty and have awakened to how much I let it control me - from nice cars and houses to fine clothing and jewelry to any other vain thing we set our Hearts upon for our own pride and our own glory, seeking after the respect of our fellow man. I have been extremely blessed to have excess and so many times I have set my heart on the spoils of Babylon. I personally have recognized so many of these things in my own life and can testify of the true joy one receives when he rids his life of them and takes control of his own thoughts and worldly desires. I have many acquaintances and friends both members and non that are so wrapped up in partaking of the spoils that it saddens me...it saddens me because of our greed, it saddens me because we have as a nation turned away from God in our prosperity and it scares me the process of humility that lies ahead for our nation, people and church members. How awful it is that all we care (as a majority of Americans) about is making more money to buy more stuff to outdo our friends and neighbors or to satisfy our own thirst for vain things that we cannot take with us as we turn our backs on the poor.

We support the MDG's each day we spend trying to do nothing more than to seek after our own personal gain than uphold righteous laws and politicians. It isn't a coincidence that the majority of our politicians are corrupt and they somehow get re-elected to their posts. We make acceptance for their evil ways to get our own personal gain. We don't take time as a nation to individually study it out and support those who will strengthen our constitution and individual liberties...we are either to busy working for our own gain or we support their evil ways for our own gain.

Here are some thoughts that I try to ask myself as a sort of "humility check" that I feel relate to this topic:

Do I care what people think about the car I drive...the clothes I wear, etc.?
Do I hesitate to share my LDS faith in God (I work with mostly non-LDS)?
What am I working for, to buy the next big thing, or to build up Zion (I'm no longer saving for cars and vacations, but missions)?
Am I jealous of my neighbor for his success or covetess of his ...?
Do I do/say things to set myself up as greater than those around me?
This list goes on...I ask the questions because I was either once guilty or it has become apparent that they are common in our society.

I'm not sure why I share all this other than to do it as part of my own repentance and help continue to remove myself from partaking of the spoils of Babylon and the MDG's. Sometimes it seems so hard. The more you look the more you feel entrenched in a world filled with false Gods and false sense of security/happiness. Everywhere we look we are surrounded by excess. Food, cars, clothing, and anything else that takes our time away from focusing on our eternal purpose. I am certain that this "age of excess" is coming to an end for the world. We have turned our backs on God, we mock him in our entertainment and political arenas and surely his anger is kindled against the wicked of this world and those that give for a thing of naught the food and goods they consume on a daily basis. We are nothing without God. We owe him every for every ounce of strength we have to work and enjoy life, even the very breath of air we take in. May god have mercy on the righteous people in this world and upon the people of this church that have received the truth and the ordinances and have been deceived by the world in whatever way it may be. I hope and pray we can all continue to awaken to our awful situation and stand together to build up Zion and fulfill whatever role our God has given each one of us. I put myself first and make no accusation without first condemning myself in my own guilt. I hope and pray that through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ I am forgiven and I hope and pray that this once great nation can turn back to the God that made it great. Down with Babylon and welcome Zion!

I really enjoyed reading this response, I was just thinking about this yesterday. Everything isn't black and white and if you have black and white thinking you will drive yourself insane. The telestial world is giant shades of gray, a sliver of white and a lot of black. The best thing I can do is be in the world but try not to be of the world. We are surrounded by evil but that's precisely WHY we are here! We could only learn so much in the Fathers presence because evil doesn't exist in His presence. How can you learn without opposition?

[jonesde]

To understand the magnitude of the "spoils" there are a few numbers that are interesting:

1. the GDP of the USA is about $15.25 trillion (projected GDP for this year), and projecting govt spending for this year (federal, state, local) is around $6.72 trillion... which is just about 44% of the economy; this is the money taken involuntarily and used according to the whims of politicians whose elections are funded by lobbyists

2. the total interest paid in the USA (projected for this year) is around $3.84 trillion, which is about 25% of our economy; this is on all public and private debt, and is a partial representation of the revenue of the banking industry

3. government spending and interest payments combined make up around 69% of GDP in the USA; this is all unproductive and largely involuntary, and leaves at most only 31% of the US economy that is productive... ie producing things people actually need and want and are willing to pay for

4. those who receive direct money from the government include around 19.6 million employees, 67.5 million social security recipients, 46 million food stamp recipients; including those who make a living on government contracts, it is estimated that well over 50% (and perhaps closer to 60%) of the US population lives on funds channeled through government

In short, most people live on the "spoils" of the system. This is not only a problem because such a small percentage of the population actually produces goods and service that people need to live, but also because such a large percentage of the population benefits financially from the system and tends to vote to not just maintain it but actually grow it.

Those who benefit from the system tend to be more active in voting, and so not only are they a majority percentage of the population, they make up basically a super-majority of the voting body.

While this is a bad situation on its own, consider that with our current political system it now has a critical mass and is basically IMPOSSIBLE to reverse. The majority who enjoy the spoils of the system live on the labors of the effectively enslaved minority who actually produce. Many who produce see greater potential benefits in participating in the spoils, and the spiral continues downward until...

BTW, the numbers cited above are mostly form http://www.usdebtclock.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

[mes5464]

To understand the magnitude of the "spoils" there are a few numbers that are interesting:

1. the GDP of the USA is about $15.25 trillion (projected GDP for this year), and projecting govt spending for this year (federal, state, local) is around $6.72 trillion... which is just about 44% of the economy; this is the money taken involuntarily and used according to the whims of politicians whose elections are funded by lobbyists

2. the total interest paid in the USA (projected for this year) is around $3.84 trillion, which is about 25% of our economy; this is on all public and private debt, and is a partial representation of the revenue of the banking industry

3. government spending and interest payments combined make up around 69% of GDP in the USA; this is all unproductive and largely involuntary, and leaves at most only 31% of the US economy that is productive... ie producing things people actually need and want and are willing to pay for

4. those who receive direct money from the government include around 19.6 million employees, 67.5 million social security recipients, 46 million food stamp recipients; including those who make a living on government contracts, it is estimated that well over 50% (and perhaps closer to 60%) of the US population lives on funds channeled through government

In short, most people live on the "spoils" of the system. This is not only a problem because such a small percentage of the population actually produces goods and service that people need to live, but also because such a large percentage of the population benefits financially from the system and tends to vote to not just maintain it but actually grow it.

Those who benefit from the system tend to be more active in voting, and so not only are they a majority percentage of the population, they make up basically a super-majority of the voting body.

While this is a bad situation on its own, consider that with our current political system it now has a critical mass and is basically IMPOSSIBLE to reverse. The majority who enjoy the spoils of the system live on the labors of the effectively enslaved minority who actually produce. Many who produce see greater potential benefits in participating in the spoils, and the spiral continues downward until...

BTW, the numbers cited above are mostly form http://www.usdebtclock.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

An excellent post! Thank you.

[Thomas]

Good points Joneside. There are very few actually producing something. Throw in the trade deficit and we steal from other countries as well to prop up our lifestyle. The so called service economy is unstainable.

We trade FRNs for tangible goods. A farce that is proped up by our military. We all partake in the spoils and live off the deaths of innocent people. Lybia and Iraq for example, add the threat of force for anyone that doesn't want to trade paper and ink for tangilble goods.

[jonesde]

Good points Joneside. There are very few actually producing something. Throw in the trade deficit and we steal from other countries as well to prop up our lifestyle. The so called service economy is unstainable.

We trade FRNs for tangible goods. A farce that is proped up by our military. We all partake in the spoils and live off the deaths of innocent people. Lybia and Iraq for example, add the threat of force for anyone that doesn't want to trade paper and ink for tangilble goods.

Yes, this does seem to be the main motivation behind these.

This is a continuation of the pattern from the Perkins book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".