Gays to be married in Denmark Temple?

[Vision]

When the course changes it should not destroy our faith if we are worshiping the correct beings

EXACTLY!! Your whole post - very well said, Vision.

I am sorry but I cannot agree with you both. From the mortal side, yes you should not loose your faith in G_d when a divinely established church apostatized from G_d, and brakes the (New and) Everlasting Covenant and rejects the possibility of ever building Zion because they are willing to bend the knee and worship Baal rather than stand and allow the Lord to fight their battles as He had promised! What must we do now? We should seek the Lord and do whatever He tells us to do, and we must go to the source of all truth personally, having lost the line of authority G_d had established through wickedness and rebellion. Read D&C 1 All of it! It is very good, it is the preface to the Gentiles of the Last Days and how He shall deal with them:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high, and whose eyes are upon all men; yea, verily I say: Hearken ye people from afar; and ye that are upon the islands of the sea, listen together.

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

5 And they shall ago forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.

7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.

8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;

9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure—

10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.

11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:

12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;

13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

So who is the Lord talking about here?

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

Well first, who has the (New and) Everlasting Covenant? Not the Catholic or Christians! And certainly not the Jews! Ah, it MUST be the LDS, there is no one else who has had it, and by the way... they are the only ones who have already broken it, by straying from mine ordinances, and destroying our faith for all future generations of Saints. I am sorry, you may not want to see it my way, but the fact still remains, this Covenant will be broken by someone in the last days, and there is no others to point the blame!

Shalom

Kingdom

First question, you cannot agree that we should worship God and Jesus Christ (correct beings), not mammon?

I could be wrong but I glean from your post that you believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the same thing as the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ? Please shed light on this for me please?

I see them as 2 distinct entities that have a symbiotic relationship with each other. The ordinances contained within the fullness of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ are administered by the priesthood holders, and those others that are set apart to administer ordinances, that are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints that hopefully are on the path to conversion to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So when I post that compulsion has been used to alter the course of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I personally don't see it as affecting the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The car we are all riding in is the Church and the destination is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[seer stone]

The 12th Article of Faith- is the cause of why we had to end polygamy and it will be the same cause that will end marriage within the temple and church buildings.

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

FYI, the AoF were not canonized until 1880.

That is alright, the Official Declaration 1 wasn't canonized until 1890. Does the date when canonized have any relevance on whether or not they are considered scripture? If I recall when Christ visited the Americas he asked why Samuel the Lamenite's prophecy wasn't included in their scriptures as well?

[Gad]

That is alright, the Official Declaration 1 wasn't canonized until 1890. Does the date when canonized have any relevance on whether or not they are considered scripture? If I recall when Christ visited the Americas he asked why Samuel the Lamenite's prophecy wasn't included in their scriptures as well?

It is almost as if Samuel the Lamanite was such a non-authority to the Nephites that they didn't even consider him worthy of addition to their scriptures until Christ corrected their error.

[seer stone]

That is alright, the Official Declaration 1 wasn't canonized until 1890. Does the date when canonized have any relevance on whether or not they are considered scripture? If I recall when Christ visited the Americas he asked why Samuel the Lamenite's prophecy wasn't included in their scriptures as well?

It is almost as if Samuel the Lamanite was such a non-authority to the Nephites that they didn't even consider him worthy of addition to their scriptures until Christ corrected their error.

Maybe you have some insight, but nevertheless it was signs that Samuel the Lamenite had prophesied that the members of the church during that era of time were looking forward to judge when Christ would come. The Gadiantons of those days used his prophecy to persecute the saints also.

[Kingdom of ZION]

That is alright, the Official Declaration 1 wasn't canonized until 1890. Does the date when canonized have any relevance on whether or not they are considered scripture? If I recall when Christ visited the Americas he asked why Samuel the Lamenite's prophecy wasn't included in their scriptures as well?

It is almost as if Samuel the Lamanite was such a non-authority to the Nephites that they didn't even consider him worthy of addition to their scriptures until Christ corrected their error.

Maybe you have some insight, but nevertheless it was signs that Samuel the Lamenite had prophesied that the members of the church during that era of time were looking forward to judge when Christ would come. The Gadiantons of those days used his prophecy to persecute the saints also.

Maybe the LDS have prophets right now prophesying to them and they are not listening any better then the Nephites were to Samuel?

[Gad]

It is almost as if Samuel the Lamanite was such a non-authority to the Nephites that they didn't even consider him worthy of addition to their scriptures until Christ corrected their error.

Maybe you have some insight, but nevertheless it was signs that Samuel the Lamenite had prophesied that the members of the church during that era of time were looking forward to judge when Christ would come. The Gadiantons of those days used his prophecy to persecute the saints also.

Maybe the LDS have prophets right now prophesying to them and they are mot listening any better then the Nephites were to Samuel?

eeyup

[Kingdom of ZION]

Kingdom

First question, you cannot agree that we should worship God and Jesus Christ (correct beings), not mammon?

I cannot agree? Why not? For one will either worship the true and living G_d or mammon, you can not have two masters! I worship El Elyon!

I could be wrong but I glean from your post that you believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the same thing as the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ? Please shed light on this for me please?

Joseph Smith's Dispensation is the Restoration Dispensation of the Restored Gospel of Yehoshua, the Messiah, unto the Gentiles.

I see them as 2 distinct entities that have a symbiotic relationship with each other. The ordinances contained within the fullness of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ are administered by the priesthood holders, and those others that are set apart to administer ordinances, that are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints that hopefully are on the path to conversion to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So when I post that compulsion has been used to alter the course of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I personally don't see it as affecting the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

We just see it differently. The Ordinances of the Gospel of Yehoshua are found in the Doctrine of Christ (the Messiah, 2Nephi and Hebrews)... you know faith, repentance, baptism by water, baptism by fire for the gift of the Holy Ghost and the remission of sins, and the last supper (sacrament). The Everlasting Covenant is the Gospel of Exaltation, which is still taught and administer through the C of JC of LDS! At least the last time I checked. You talk about 2 distinct entities. I only see one church, they are running the temples, doing the ordinances, keeping the records, and ordaining the temple workers. So you know of some secret order of Rosicrucian Brotherhood Latter-day Saints or LDS Masons? Inquiring minds want to know???

The car we are all riding in is the Church and the destination is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Sounds like 1 entity to me...

[Vision]

Kingdom

First question, you cannot agree that we should worship God and Jesus Christ (correct beings), not mammon?

I cannot agree? Why not? For one will either worship the true and living G_d or mammon, you can not have two masters! I worship El Elyon!

I could be wrong but I glean from your post that you believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the same thing as the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ? Please shed light on this for me please?

Joseph Smith's Dispensation is the Restoration Dispensation of the Restored Gospel of Yehoshua, the Messiah, unto the Gentiles.

I see them as 2 distinct entities that have a symbiotic relationship with each other. The ordinances contained within the fullness of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ are administered by the priesthood holders, and those others that are set apart to administer ordinances, that are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints that hopefully are on the path to conversion to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So when I post that compulsion has been used to alter the course of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I personally don't see it as affecting the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

We just see it differently. The Ordinances of the Gospel of Yehoshua are found in the Doctrine of Christ (the Messiah, 2Nephi and Hebrews)... you know faith, repentance, baptism by water, baptism by fire for the gift of the Holy Ghost and the remission of sins, and the last supper (sacrament). The Everlasting Covenant is the Gospel of Exaltation, which is still taught and administer through the C of JC of LDS! At least the last time I checked. You talk about 2 distinct entities. I only see one church, they are running the temples, doing the ordinances, keeping the records, and ordaining the temple workers. So you know of some secret order of Rosicrucian Brotherhood Latter-day Saints or LDS Masons? Inquiring minds want to know???

The car we are all riding in is the Church and the destination is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Sounds like 1 entity to me...

Here is a good talk explaining the difference.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... edia=video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On Monday I will scan Elder Bednar's talk from a regional conference last October and post it as well.

[Kingdom of ZION]

Here is a good talk explaining the difference.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... edia=video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On Monday I will scan Elder Bednar's talk from a regional conference last October and post it as well.

Yes, yes, yes, the Gospel is not the Church any more then the Priesthood is the Church! But the Gospel that the LDS preach is not the same Gospel that the Catholic preach. The LDS have a restored Gospel just they have a restored Priesthood. When you try to say that it is two different things, that like saying there is a different between changes made in the Ordinances does not effect the Priesthood, or when the Church stops reforming an Ordinance, that does not change the Gospel. You can play word games all day, but when the sun does down and no more work can be done, the apostasy I testify of will stand against those who would not open there eyes.

Shalom

[Col. Flagg]

Good to see you have your true name back Col!

Thanks - yeah, Brian decided to re-activate it. I'm kind of glad - after all, who else can come close to almost 12,000 posts? )

Cool! I like this moniker better. What are you going to do with Truth B Known?

I'll just save it for a future time when I need another alias after I get banned again for speaking my mind on something that is a no-no.

[Col. Flagg]

Good to see you have your true name back Col!

I agree- The Lord will never permit this. But TPTB will certainly try!

Thanks - yeah, Brian decided to re-activate it. I'm kind of glad - after all, who else can come close to almost 12,000 posts? )

Glad you are back as the Col!


Col, you are currently only a captain of ten thousand.

I look forward to the day when you become a captain of a million! :ymparty: :ymparty: (Col, if you try really hard, maybe you can reach this milestone before the second coming!)

I'll try my hardest just for you Squally! :ymhug:

[Zowieink]

As far as temples and churches are concerned, there is a vast difference between them. It certainly is indeed possible that at some time in the future our chapels could be the location of gay marriages. However, a temple is NOT a chapel and vise versa. In the public meetings held for the Phoenix AZ North Temple and the Gilbert AZ Temple, there was great emphasis placed on the difference. Chapels/Churches are used for Sunday religious meetings and instruction and for church social uses. Temples are not even open on Sunday and are used for a very specific reason.

In many countries, like England, you have to be married by the government or government run church (The Church of England). Then right afterward they go to the temple and are sealed. Eventually the Church will be forced to do it the same way here in this country, unless righteousness of law makers comes back.

[A Random Phrase]

Cool! I like this moniker better. What are you going to do with Truth B Known?

I'll just save it for a future time when I need another alias after I get banned again for speaking my mind on something that is a no-no.

)

Sounds like a good idea.

[ithink]

The Church should be out of the business entirely of marriage anyway, and I have felt this for a while.

The church`s business is marriage. What God hath joined together..... neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord. And so on. The government has usurped this just like it has usurped nearly everything else. It is the government that should get out of the marriage business, and whether gays wish to be married at all is no business of mine if their religion allows for it.

[LukeAir2008]

The Church only has to perform gay marriages if it performs normal marriages. It wouldnt have to perform gay marriages if it doesnt perform any other kind of marriages.

It's not rocket science. The only way out for the Church is to stop performing civil marriages altogether.

I'm not saying it will do that. The Church has become expert in surviving and doing exactly what the government and the world wants it to do. Will the Church have the strength to defy the Government and the world and say NO?

We'll find out pretty soon.

[JohnnyL]

When a place is totally ripened in iniquity, it is destroyed, ie: the time of the flood, Sodom and Gomorah, Ammonihah.
How close are we to this? It seems that many places are getting closer and closer.
Another question: How soon before there is a total separation of the saints and the world? That seems to be getting a lot closer as well. However, I personally believe that the cleansing of the Lord's house has to take place first.

I could see gay marriage easily being the "cause" of the start of the cleansing. I believe the issue will have to be something that strongly divides those who have been endowed, not general members. Prop 8 was bad enough a few years ago...

[JohnnyL]

The Lord will never allow homosexual marriages to take place in the temple, period... that is non-negotiable

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but this was thought of every major doctrine that was "changed"

“Were the Church to do that [do away with Plural Marriage] as an entirety, God would reject the Saints as a body. The authority of the Priesthood would be withdrawn with its gifts and powers and there would be no more heavenly recognition of the administrations. The heavens would permanently withdraw themselves, and the Lord would raise up another people of greater valor and stability, for his work must, according to his unalterable decrees, go forward; for the time of the second coming of the Savior is near, even at the doors.” -John Taylor, Deseret News 4/23/1885

“Whenever the seed of Judah mingled with the seed of Cain, they lost their Priesthood and all blessings. As an ensample – let the Presidency, Twelve, Seventies, High Priests, Bishops, and all the Authorities say, now we will all go and mingle with the seed of Cain and they may have all the privileges they want. We lift our hands to heaven in support of this – that moment we lose the Priesthood and all blessings, and we would not be redeemed until Cain was.” Brigham Young Addresses 2:81, 5 January 1852

Those were both "deal breakers", and I don't remember anything this strong being said about sodomite unions. But I'm sure this is different

I'd like to suggest a look at the noted parts, and see if these statements make more sense now.

[sadie_Mormon]

Even if the church was to get out of the "marriage business" how long do you think it will take for them to demand that they enter the Temple to be sealed? You know that will be next right? If members don't see what's coming ahead they've got tunnel vision and are in great denial of reality.

The LDS main church business is marriage. If they were to back out of preforming marriages well it would naturally change the churches message. Furthermore, if they (as I suspect they will) bend and allow gays to get married then eventually sealed well that will turn the church on its head. It would contradict everything the church says they believe about marriage.


"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Lev.18:22

[Rensai]

Even if the church was to get out of the "marriage business" how long do you think it will take for them to demand that they enter the Temple to be sealed? You know that will be next right? If members don't see what's coming ahead they've got tunnel vision and are in great denial of reality.

The LDS main church business is marriage. If they were to back out of preforming marriages well it would naturally change the churches message. Furthermore, if they (as I suspect they will) bend and allow gays to get married then eventually sealed well that will turn the church on its head. It would contradict everything the church says they believe about marriage.


"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Lev.18:22

Why do you believe the church will bend? And If the church did bend, what would that mean to you?

[A Random Phrase]

I will probably start a new thread on this, but here is a link that is worth reading:
http://www.joshweed.com/2012/06/club-un ... ut-of.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fiannan]

If indeed the Church did "bend" and allow gay marriages in the chaples then there would be all kinds of fallout. First, many members would find this going too far to please the world and would either take the route of many an esoteric member and remain in the Church, but feel that they were doing so to maintain rights to "the keys" and not fall into total sustaining of leaders. Second, there would be many who would eitehr demand that polygamy be reinstated, or might join polygamist groups. How could one say that two men smooching in the chaple was okay but a man could not marry two women; something the scriptures condone?

On a weird related note the only "gay" union that might be in accordance with the Gospel might be if a man were to marry two lesbians or bi-sexuals. The Old Testament did not condemn female same-sex relations and only condemns it in the New Testament in regards to women not wanting to raise families. I have pondered the double standard (males in the OT could face execution for same-sex relations but women were not even mentioned) due to polygamy. Procreation in a polygamist family would not be hampered at all if some of the women were bi or lesbian. As for males, again...double standard but I did not set the rules.

[Silas]

It seems like a lot of people on this forum are losing their faith in the restored gospel. This thread is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of church history and doctrine. The church will never capitulate to the demands to "accept" homosexual behavior. It won't happen. Even if Denmark tried to force us we would just pick up and leave the place.

With polygamy it had always been understood that it is not always necessary to practice the principle in this life. If you doubt that then you need to read the Book of Mormon a little more closely. Early leaders of the church indicated that it was possible that the practice would not continue. But the church has never done away with polygamy entirely, there are plenty of men who are sealed to more than one woman, including several members of the twelve, and those men will have all of their wives in the life to come.

With blacks and the priesthood, it was understood, even by Brigham Young that at some time in the future the ban would be lifted and the priesthood would be extended to them. Some people thought it would not be until the millennium, but the Lord decided to do it sooner, which makes sense because the whole purpose of the church in the last days is to spread the gospel across the whole earth. We can't skip over an entire continent and still accomplish the Lord's purposes.

Is this church led by modern prophets or is it not? So long as the brethren were guided by revelation then their is nothing wrong with the changes they made and they were guided by revelation. Now homosexuality is a different thing all together. It has only ever been condemned in the scriptures. Never is it indicated that it is possible under any circumstances for the practice of homosexuality to anything less than an abomination in God's sight. There is no prophecy saying that it will one day be acceptable as there were with both polygamy and the priesthood ban. The church will never accept the practice of homosexuality. We love and accept those who are tempted just as we love and accept people who are tempted to commit any other sin, but we will never accept the behavior.

If you believe that the church will cave to pressure on this subject then you believe that the church is already fallen and subject to the dictates of corrupt earthly governments. If you believe that then I don't know what you are doing in the church still. I wouldn't stay for one minute in a fallen church that has no authority from God. But the church is not fallen, our leaders are called by God and they are following his direction for how to lead this church. I testify that this is true.

[kathedralegs]

It seems like a lot of people on this forum are losing their faith in the restored gospel. This thread is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of church history and doctrine. The church will never capitulate to the demands to "accept" homosexual behavior. It won't happen. Even if Denmark tried to force us we would just pick up and leave the place.

With polygamy it had always been understood that it is not always necessary to practice the principle in this life. If you doubt that then you need to read the Book of Mormon a little more closely. Early leaders of the church indicated that it was possible that the practice would not continue. But the church has never done away with polygamy entirely, there are plenty of men who are sealed to more than one woman, including several members of the twelve, and those men will have all of their wives in the life to come.

With blacks and the priesthood, it was understood, even by Brigham Young that at some time in the future the ban would be lifted and the priesthood would be extended to them. Some people thought it would not be until the millennium, but the Lord decided to do it sooner, which makes sense because the whole purpose of the church in the last days is to spread the gospel across the whole earth. We can't skip over an entire continent and still accomplish the Lord's purposes.

Is this church led by modern prophets or is it not? So long as the brethren were guided by revelation then their is nothing wrong with the changes they made and they were guided by revelation. Now homosexuality is a different thing all together. It has only ever been condemned in the scriptures. Never is it indicated that it is possible under any circumstances for the practice of homosexuality to anything less than an abomination in God's sight. There is no prophecy saying that it will one day be acceptable as there were with both polygamy and the priesthood ban. The church will never accept the practice of homosexuality. We love and accept those who are tempted just as we love and accept people who are tempted to commit any other sin, but we will never accept the behavior.

If you believe that the church will cave to pressure on this subject then you believe that the church is already fallen and subject to the dictates of corrupt earthly governments. If you believe that then I don't know what you are doing in the church still. I wouldn't stay for one minute in a fallen church that has no authority from God. But the church is not fallen, our leaders are called by God and they are following his direction for how to lead this church. I testify that this is true.

:ymapplause:

[awake]

if they (as I suspect they will) bend and allow gays to get married then eventually sealed well that will turn the church on its head. It would contradict everything the church says they believe about marriage.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Lev.18:22

I also think the Church may bend (as it seems to have done with many other 'abominations' it was pressured by it's members to accept) once the Church is pressured to accept it because of outside and inside pressure, because it becomes legal accross the nation and because the majority of the members become sympathetic to SSM & push for it, which unfortunately doesn't seem too far off to me, as so many members who have close friends and relatives with SSA usually soften on their stances & accept their friend's and relative's partners and then it is just the natural inclination to come to accept what they are doing and feel like they should be happy too.

First we abhore, then tolerate, then embrace.

And as history has shown, God usually allows people to have what they want, whether to their blessing or condemnation.

[7cylon7]

It seems like a lot of people on this forum are losing their faith in the restored gospel. This thread is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of church history and doctrine. The church will never capitulate to the demands to "accept" homosexual behavior. It won't happen. Even if Denmark tried to force us we would just pick up and leave the place.

With polygamy it had always been understood that it is not always necessary to practice the principle in this life. If you doubt that then you need to read the Book of Mormon a little more closely. Early leaders of the church indicated that it was possible that the practice would not continue. But the church has never done away with polygamy entirely, there are plenty of men who are sealed to more than one woman, including several members of the twelve, and those men will have all of their wives in the life to come.

With blacks and the priesthood, it was understood, even by Brigham Young that at some time in the future the ban would be lifted and the priesthood would be extended to them. Some people thought it would not be until the millennium, but the Lord decided to do it sooner, which makes sense because the whole purpose of the church in the last days is to spread the gospel across the whole earth. We can't skip over an entire continent and still accomplish the Lord's purposes.

Is this church led by modern prophets or is it not? So long as the brethren were guided by revelation then their is nothing wrong with the changes they made and they were guided by revelation. Now homosexuality is a different thing all together. It has only ever been condemned in the scriptures. Never is it indicated that it is possible under any circumstances for the practice of homosexuality to anything less than an abomination in God's sight. There is no prophecy saying that it will one day be acceptable as there were with both polygamy and the priesthood ban. The church will never accept the practice of homosexuality. We love and accept those who are tempted just as we love and accept people who are tempted to commit any other sin, but we will never accept the behavior.

If you believe that the church will cave to pressure on this subject then you believe that the church is already fallen and subject to the dictates of corrupt earthly governments. If you believe that then I don't know what you are doing in the church still. I wouldn't stay for one minute in a fallen church that has no authority from God. But the church is not fallen, our leaders are called by God and they are following his direction for how to lead this church. I testify that this is true.

++1 :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

I am in total agreence with you.