Gays to be married in Denmark Temple?

[Ben McClintock]

For now is right

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[Col. Flagg]

The Lord will never allow homosexual marriages to take place in the temple, period... that is non-negotiable and if the church were to bend on the issue and cave to pressure from government, the Lord would intervene and it probably wouldn't be pretty, especially for the church for allowing it. We know he's already going to start the cleansing of the earth within in his own house first - if the church wants to speed up that process, just allow gays to marry in his house. We are rapidly approaching two flash points... the line in the sand between the church and government and the line the Lord has drawn for the church as far as what he will allow or accept in terms of catering to evil. Allowing LDG's to speak at BYU and honoring them with doctorate degrees, being silenced regarding political matters in exchange for a tax-exempt status under the IRS, the construction of a multi-billion mall in downtown SLC, etc. is one thing... desecrating the sanctity of the temple and defiling/mocking the Lord directly with something that completely contradicts his laws of eternal marriage is quite another.

[InfoWarrior82]

Good to see you have your true name back Col!

I agree- The Lord will never permit this. But TPTB will certainly try!

[Ben McClintock]

The Lord will never allow homosexual marriages to take place in the temple, period... that is non-negotiable

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but this was thought of every major doctrine that was "changed"

“Were the Church to do that [do away with Plural Marriage] as an entirety, God would reject the Saints as a body. The authority of the Priesthood would be withdrawn with its gifts and powers and there would be no more heavenly recognition of the administrations. The heavens would permanently withdraw themselves, and the Lord would raise up another people of greater valor and stability, for his work must, according to his unalterable decrees, go forward; for the time of the second coming of the Savior is near, even at the doors.” -John Taylor, Deseret News 4/23/1885

“Whenever the seed of Judah mingled with the seed of Cain, they lost their Priesthood and all blessings. As an ensample – let the Presidency, Twelve, Seventies, High Priests, Bishops, and all the Authorities say, now we will all go and mingle with the seed of Cain and they may have all the privileges they want. We lift our hands to heaven in support of this – that moment we lose the Priesthood and all blessings, and we would not be redeemed until Cain was.” Brigham Young Addresses 2:81, 5 January 1852

Those were both "deal breakers", and I don't remember anything this strong being said about sodomite unions. But I'm sure this is different

[Col. Flagg]

Good to see you have your true name back Col!

I agree- The Lord will never permit this. But TPTB will certainly try!

Thanks - yeah, Brian decided to re-activate it. I'm kind of glad - after all, who else can come close to almost 12,000 posts? )

[sadie_Mormon]

...if the church were to bend on the issue and cave to pressure from government, the Lord would intervene and it probably wouldn't be pretty, especially for the church for allowing it.

It certainly won't be the first time.

[A Random Phrase]

Good to see you have your true name back Col!

Thanks - yeah, Brian decided to re-activate it. I'm kind of glad - after all, who else can come close to almost 12,000 posts? )

Cool! I like this moniker better. What are you going to do with Truth B Known?

[ATL Wake]

Everyone have no fear.

I have been told by someone within the Church structure that the Church is preparing to end marriages in all temples. Don't panic, relax. It's not catastrophic.

This is the part that we shall have no fear about. Marriage's are not the ordinance performed in the temple, it is the sealing portion that is the ordinance.

Sealings will continue to be performed thus allowing people to still be saved.

There will be an announcement in the future concerning this matter. Now that Prop 8 is headed to the Supremes this announcement could come within the next year.

I really hope that this does happen. It has always bothered me a bit that the church requires you to be sealed and married at the same time, or if you are married civilly first, you have to wait a year before you can get sealed.

This has led to so much disappointment in families where not all members are worthy or not members of the church. And this wasn't always church policy. Hopefully, soon, all Mormon couples will be able to have their entire families together when they get married.

[Kingdom of ZION]

If the Temple is ever discrased in this manner I have no doubt that it will be destroyed. The Lords house is the most sacred place and it will not be defiled. Remember that the Lord is in charge and have faith that the church will not fall or compromise on our most sacred things. People on the other hand are only human and may fall and comprimise but the Church will not!

I'm not sure what kind of information you are privied to Vision, but if you were indeed told something in confidence you should respect the person/persons who told you and not spread it around before the church feels it should be announced. If there is something that members will need to know such as this, we will be informed in due time through the proper lines. I just think people should be careful what they say as to not start false rumors.

I'm not sure how it works but I don't think a person, like a bishop or a priest can be 'forced' to perform any marriage. If you run a chapel as a business that is probly a different story.
As far as I know the only people desiring to be married in an LDS church would be LDS members who have asked their bishop to perform the ceremony. If there are LDS members who are gay and desiring to be wed, they are unlikely to ask their bishop and not likely to be attending church. People tend to be in places that they are comfortable and where they feel accepted.

So, if the Church later does as Vision says but announces it as a Revelation disguised as a Manifesto, pardon I should say Declaration... shall we hale Vision as a Visionary?

So if a non-practicing gay person wished to live with his or her roommate and share insurance and survivor benefits together with the same sex living brother or sister, and they were members of one of the special Wards that cater to none practicing gay members... you do not think that the Bishop of that Ward would not want to help one of his Ward Members in a time of need? Oh how naive the Gentiles people have become!

Sorry my dear, I am not saying anything personal about your sincere reply... only in times like this, I think the Amish have the right answer, shunning wickedness to keep it out!

Shalom

[Squally]

Good to see you have your true name back Col!

I agree- The Lord will never permit this. But TPTB will certainly try!

Thanks - yeah, Brian decided to re-activate it. I'm kind of glad - after all, who else can come close to almost 12,000 posts? )

Glad you are back as the Col!


Col, you are currently only a captain of ten thousand.

I look forward to the day when you become a captain of a million! :ymparty: :ymparty: (Col, if you try really hard, maybe you can reach this milestone before the second coming!)

[HeirofNumenor]

I think the Amish have the right answer, shunning wickedness to keep it out!

Get rid of your TV's, iPods, Internet, smart phones, etc....

[Silas]

The Lord will never allow homosexual marriages to take place in the temple, period... that is non-negotiable

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but this was thought of every major doctrine that was "changed"

“Were the Church to do that [do away with Plural Marriage] as an entirety, God would reject the Saints as a body. The authority of the Priesthood would be withdrawn with its gifts and powers and there would be no more heavenly recognition of the administrations. The heavens would permanently withdraw themselves, and the Lord would raise up another people of greater valor and stability, for his work must, according to his unalterable decrees, go forward; for the time of the second coming of the Savior is near, even at the doors.” -John Taylor, Deseret News 4/23/1885

“Whenever the seed of Judah mingled with the seed of Cain, they lost their Priesthood and all blessings. As an ensample – let the Presidency, Twelve, Seventies, High Priests, Bishops, and all the Authorities say, now we will all go and mingle with the seed of Cain and they may have all the privileges they want. We lift our hands to heaven in support of this – that moment we lose the Priesthood and all blessings, and we would not be redeemed until Cain was.” Brigham Young Addresses 2:81, 5 January 1852

Those were both "deal breakers", and I don't remember anything this strong being said about sodomite unions. But I'm sure this is different

What way exactly do you want that to be taken? Do you think that the church has fallen away into apostasy? Do you not believe it at all? What are your views?

[Melissa]

If the Temple is ever discrased in this manner I have no doubt that it will be destroyed. The Lords house is the most sacred place and it will not be defiled. Remember that the Lord is in charge and have faith that the church will not fall or compromise on our most sacred things. People on the other hand are only human and may fall and comprimise but the Church will not!

I'm not sure what kind of information you are privied to Vision, but if you were indeed told something in confidence you should respect the person/persons who told you and not spread it around before the church feels it should be announced. If there is something that members will need to know such as this, we will be informed in due time through the proper lines. I just think people should be careful what they say as to not start false rumors.

I'm not sure how it works but I don't think a person, like a bishop or a priest can be 'forced' to perform any marriage. If you run a chapel as a business that is probly a different story.
As far as I know the only people desiring to be married in an LDS church would be LDS members who have asked their bishop to perform the ceremony. If there are LDS members who are gay and desiring to be wed, they are unlikely to ask their bishop and not likely to be attending church. People tend to be in places that they are comfortable and where they feel accepted.

So, if the Church later does as Vision says but announces it as a Revelation disguised as a Manifesto, pardon I should say Declaration... shall we hale Vision as a Visionary?

So if a non-practicing gay person wished to live with his or her roommate and share insurance and survivor benefits together with the same sex living brother or sister, and they were members of one of the special Wards that cater to none practicing gay members... you do not think that the Bishop of that Ward would not want to help one of his Ward Members in a time of need? Oh how naive the Gentiles people have become!

Sorry my dear, I am not saying anything personal about your sincere reply... only in times like this, I think the Amish have the right answer, shunning wickedness to keep it out!

Shalom

No Vision should not be hailed as a visionary - not sure why you said that. The statement was not in anyway visionary just information passed on from a source we don't know. I don't think he has said anything as to where he got the information except in a meeting somewhere.

I am really not sure what you are trying to say in your post. If a non-practicing gay is rooming with someone of the same gender I don't see them being shunned, but if they are wanting to live together in a union type of a relationship to share benefits then that - in my opinion- is wrong. I still think this situation is harmful to the individual though. We not only need to Avoid evil but also avoid the apperance of evil. This situation is no different than any other situation in the church, a good Bishop has concern and love for all the people in his area and should reach out to help those in need no matter their situation.

I believe that we do shun wickedness in the sense that we do not condone it or look upon it lightly. We do not shun the person as Christ did not shun the sinner. Instead we invite them to repent and welcome them.

This issue or any other really doesnt need to be complicated or difficult, if the individuals in the church would stop trying to bend rules and laws to fit their lifestyle and Live the truths they know and keep the commandments and stay close to the spirit then they will be able to govern themselves accordingly. I dont mean to sound insensitive to anyone who is struggling with challenges. The more you temp evil the more control it has on you.

[Kingdom of ZION]

I think the Amish have the right answer, shunning wickedness to keep it out!

Get rid of your TV's, iPods, Internet, smart phones, etc....

'All things in moderation'... This is the key, you should only read LotR once for every two complete readings of the standard works of the scriptures!

Now lets see, did we just find the spirit of this scripture or the orthodox dogma translation of it? I think many here take some of my none doctrinal exaggerations to seriously when I am making fun or light of a bad situation of the evil that lives in us, among us, and everywhere around us or everywhere we look. There is no Zion to flee to, no doctrine or book we can retreat into, no place of safety or heaven on earth to protect us from evil... I wish there were. I would sell everything I own for that one pearl!

Shalom

[prestodo]

Why is this even a question? Obviously the Church is not going to allow the Temple to be desecrated. The Church will not allow it, plain and simple. The Church is not evil.

[Nan]

actually in some countries people get married the day before. The church policy is that for them to be sealed the next day they must not have sex. If they have sex they have to then wait a year like everyone else. It is because of the laws of the countries that they do it this way. (One of my friends was married in another country.)

[Nan]

If the Temple is ever discrased in this manner I have no doubt that it will be destroyed. The Lords house is the most sacred place and it will not be defiled. Remember that the Lord is in charge and have faith that the church will not fall or compromise on our most sacred things. People on the other hand are only human and may fall and comprimise but the Church will not!

I'm not sure what kind of information you are privied to Vision, but if you were indeed told something in confidence you should respect the person/persons who told you and not spread it around before the church feels it should be announced. If there is something that members will need to know such as this, we will be informed in due time through the proper lines. I just think people should be careful what they say as to not start false rumors.

I was not told in confidence, in fact it was a group setting with 8-9 people present, so don't worry it's not a rumor, and don't worry you will be fine when the proper channels announce this and you can take it as divine revelation from the Lord then.

As far as the Temple being desecrated. Have you been to a Wasatch Front temple on a Saturday morning when the workers have to walk through the Celestial room and shush people for talking so loud. I have experienced this recently so IMO that some temples are already being desecrated every day.

We had a temple worker ask us to stop talking in the celestial room. I was with two friends. Problem was that one of my friends had doctrinal questions that could only be talked about in the Temple. So please don't assume that just because people are talking they must be doing something wrong. And we had waited until everyone else had left. There are some things that can only be talked about there. My husband and I always talk softly in the celestial room about what stood out to us or what insights we gained from the session. I also don't think it is going to be quiet in heaven.

[Juliette]

My Brother lost an 8 year old son to drowning. We were all in the Temple one day and his wife was having a difficult time because of his death. We were in the Celestial Room talking and comforting her. A Temple worker came over and said the loudest SHHHHH I have ever heard. It was inapproppriate and more offensive than any whispering we were doing.
I don't call talking about doctrine or comforting, desecrating the Temple.

[Fiannan]

Okay, the Church can avoid any problems by just doing away with temple marriages (just doing the sealings in the temple). However, in a few years you might see laws at least in Europe that would force bishops to perform civil weddings for gay couples. What then?

[EmmaLee]

When "gay marriage" became legal in our state in 2009, that was our Bishop's greatest fear, Fiannan. His red hair turned gray in a matter of a few weeks after the judges (not the people) declared it "the law". I wonder how it will all pan out...

[Vision]

If the Temple is ever discrased in this manner I have no doubt that it will be destroyed. The Lords house is the most sacred place and it will not be defiled. Remember that the Lord is in charge and have faith that the church will not fall or compromise on our most sacred things. People on the other hand are only human and may fall and comprimise but the Church will not!

I'm not sure what kind of information you are privied to Vision, but if you were indeed told something in confidence you should respect the person/persons who told you and not spread it around before the church feels it should be announced. If there is something that members will need to know such as this, we will be informed in due time through the proper lines. I just think people should be careful what they say as to not start false rumors.

I'm not sure how it works but I don't think a person, like a bishop or a priest can be 'forced' to perform any marriage. If you run a chapel as a business that is probly a different story.
As far as I know the only people desiring to be married in an LDS church would be LDS members who have asked their bishop to perform the ceremony. If there are LDS members who are gay and desiring to be wed, they are unlikely to ask their bishop and not likely to be attending church. People tend to be in places that they are comfortable and where they feel accepted.

So, if the Church later does as Vision says but announces it as a Revelation disguised as a Manifesto, pardon I should say Declaration... shall we hale Vision as a Visionary?

So if a non-practicing gay person wished to live with his or her roommate and share insurance and survivor benefits together with the same sex living brother or sister, and they were members of one of the special Wards that cater to none practicing gay members... you do not think that the Bishop of that Ward would not want to help one of his Ward Members in a time of need? Oh how naive the Gentiles people have become!

Sorry my dear, I am not saying anything personal about your sincere reply... only in times like this, I think the Amish have the right answer, shunning wickedness to keep it out!

Shalom

Please don't ever consider me a Visionary.

There comes a time when we members of the Church have to apply common sense to what some times gets treated as divine revelation. It is well documented that many of the changes to "doctrine" over the course of Church history have been under compulsion by outside forces. Word of Wisdom, Plural marriage, Priesthood to all members, and soon church marriages. When the course changes it should not destroy our faith if we are worshipping the correct beings

[EmmaLee]

When the course changes it should not destroy our faith if we are worshipping the correct beings

EXACTLY!! Your whole post - very well said, Vision.

[Kingdom of ZION]

When the course changes it should not destroy our faith if we are worshiping the correct beings

EXACTLY!! Your whole post - very well said, Vision.

I am sorry but I cannot agree with you both. From the mortal side, yes you should not loose your faith in G_d when a divinely established church apostatized from G_d, and brakes the (New and) Everlasting Covenant and rejects the possibility of ever building Zion because they are willing to bend the knee and worship Baal rather than stand and allow the Lord to fight their battles as He had promised! What must we do now? We should seek the Lord and do whatever He tells us to do, and we must go to the source of all truth personally, having lost the line of authority G_d had established through wickedness and rebellion. Read D&C 1 All of it! It is very good, it is the preface to the Gentiles of the Last Days and how He shall deal with them:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high, and whose eyes are upon all men; yea, verily I say: Hearken ye people from afar; and ye that are upon the islands of the sea, listen together.

2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.

3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.

5 And they shall ago forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.

6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.

7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.

8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;

9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure—

10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.

11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:

12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;

13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

So who is the Lord talking about here?

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

Well first, who has the (New and) Everlasting Covenant? Not the Catholic or Christians! And certainly not the Jews! Ah, it MUST be the LDS, there is no one else who has had it, and by the way... they are the only ones who have already broken it, by straying from mine ordinances, and destroying our faith for all future generations of Saints. I am sorry, you may not want to see it my way, but the fact still remains, this Covenant will be broken by someone in the last days, and there is no others to point the blame!

Shalom

[seer stone]

So who is the Lord talking about here?

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

Well first, who has the (New and) Everlasting Covenant? Not the Catholic or Christians! And certainly not the Jews! Ah, it MUST be the LDS, there is no one else who has had it, and by the way... they are the only ones who have already broken it, by straying from mine ordinances, and destroying our faith for all future generations of Saints. I am sorry, you may not want to see it my way, but the fact still remains, this Covenant will be broken by someone in the last days, and there is no others to point the blame!

Could temple divorce which has become so prevalent within the church in these latter-days be considered as "breaking mine everlasting covenant"?

If your talking about polygamy, maybe you should reread Section 1, because it was through the servant of the Lord (Wilford Woodruff) that made the 1st Declaration or the Manifesto, in order to comply with the laws of the land. The devil has his ways through the governments of the world of taking away our free agency.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:38
38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

The 12th Article of Faith- is the cause of why we had to end polygamy and it will be the same cause that will end marriage within the temple and church buildings.

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

[Gad]

The 12th Article of Faith- is the cause of why we had to end polygamy and it will be the same cause that will end marriage within the temple and church buildings.

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

FYI, the AoF were not canonized until 1880.