Is a visit from Christ preceded by a visit from Satan?

[JohnnyL]

Or just sometimes? Or for certain in this life, but maybe later? Or no connection?

For all you second comforter fans out there...

[Kingdom of ZION]

YES! Though they may be years apart or the very same hour.

[Juliette]

YES! Though they may be years apart or the very same hour.

Kingdom, tell me more...

[Col. Flagg]

Moses, Joseph and others had their visit from the Lord preceded by a visit from Satan... even Christ was visited by Satan while on the earth to get him to abandon his earthly mission. All you have to do to know it's a dark or evil spirit is to ask them to shake your hand - if you can't feel anything, say to the spirit 'get thee hence'!

[marc]

Maybe not always so. It's questionable in the cases of Moriancumr, Emer, Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, Moroni, etc.

Col Flagg is correct regarding recognizing a false messenger. Joseph Smith gave us the keys.

D&C 129

1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.

9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

[Matthew.B]

Maybe not always so. It's questionable in the cases of Moriancumr, Emer, Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, Moroni, etc.

Coach, you're right that a visit from Satan wasn't mentioned in any of those cases. However, except in the case of Nephi, none of those listed gives us more than a brief glimpse into their lives and the events thereof.

I'm inclined to agree with KoZ on this one- I have no doubt that someone who will receive the Lord's visits in their lives will also receive Satan at some point. Whether that always comes beforehand, I don't know.

[sourcedist]

isnt the adversary always on the look out for a living master mahan.. or the head of his church?

someone of great spiritual strength would be very fitting for this "office."

[LukeAir2008]

It's amazing how these things can be twisted to make it sound as though a visit from satan is a pre-requisite to having a visit from Christ.

Joseph Smith never actually saw Satan before he witnessed the Father and the Son. He felt an unseen force which he felt was trying to destroy him but he didnt see any personage or personages.

This was more to do with the fact that satan recognised Joseph as the great Prophet of the last days and wanted to destroy him to prevent him from being an instrument in the Lords hands.

[katmr]

It's amazing how these things can be twisted to make it sound as though a visit from satan is a pre-requisite to having a visit from Christ.

Joseph Smith never actually saw Satan before he witnessed the Father and the Son. He felt an unseen force which he felt was trying to destroy him but he didnt see any personage or personages.

This was more to do with the fact that satan recognised Joseph as the great Prophet of the last days and wanted to destroy him to prevent him from being an instrument in the Lords hands.

I didn't think anyone was trying to twist anything, just asking a question. Who or what was that unseen force that Joseph Smith felt trying to destroy him?

I think that anyone one who recieves a visit from Christ will also have a sure knowledge of the reality of Satan, whether it be actually seeing him or by being under spiritual attack as Joseph was. Just my opinion. Whether it always precedes a visit from Christ?? Good question.

[sbsion]

depends on whether you cast out the evil spirits FIRST, the endowment teaches us that, right?

[Gad]

depends on whether you cast out the evil spirits FIRST, the endowment teaches us that, right?

The endowment teaches that Adam will be tested by evil spirits. True messengers (as part of the sign of their authority) will cast out evil spirits prior to teaching (or rather as part of) the further light and knowledge that Adam is seeking.

[LukeAir2008]

It's amazing how these things can be twisted to make it sound as though a visit from satan is a pre-requisite to having a visit from Christ.

Joseph Smith never actually saw Satan before he witnessed the Father and the Son. He felt an unseen force which he felt was trying to destroy him but he didnt see any personage or personages.

This was more to do with the fact that satan recognised Joseph as the great Prophet of the last days and wanted to destroy him to prevent him from being an instrument in the Lords hands.

I didn't think anyone was trying to twist anything, just asking a question. Who or what was that unseen force that Joseph Smith felt trying to destroy him?

I think that anyone one who recieves a visit from Christ will also have a sure knowledge of the reality of Satan, whether it be actually seeing him or by being under spiritual attack as Joseph was. Just my opinion. Whether it always precedes a visit from Christ?? Good question.

??? What has knowing about the reality of satan got to do with getting a visit from him ?

Just in case you didn't notice the title of this thread is 'Is a visit from Christ preceded by a visit from satan'.

[katmr]

It's amazing how these things can be twisted to make it sound as though a visit from satan is a pre-requisite to having a visit from Christ.

Joseph Smith never actually saw Satan before he witnessed the Father and the Son. He felt an unseen force which he felt was trying to destroy him but he didnt see any personage or personages.

This was more to do with the fact that satan recognised Joseph as the great Prophet of the last days and wanted to destroy him to prevent him from being an instrument in the Lords hands.

I didn't think anyone was trying to twist anything, just asking a question. Who or what was that unseen force that Joseph Smith felt trying to destroy him?

I think that anyone one who recieves a visit from Christ will also have a sure knowledge of the reality of Satan, whether it be actually seeing him or by being under spiritual attack as Joseph was. Just my opinion. Whether it always precedes a visit from Christ?? Good question.

??? What has knowing about the reality of satan got to do with getting a visit from him ?

Just in case you didn't notice the title of this thread is 'Is a visit from Christ preceded by a visit from satan'.

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well, so I apologize. This is only my opinion and nothing else. I guess what knowing about the reality of Satan has to do with getting a visit from him is that we're taught about Satan and many people believe in Satan, as we also believe in Christ, but to come to a sure knowledge of the reality of Satan, I believe is a bit different in that you actually see or experience Satan or his power in a very real way. Whether or not the answer to the question in the title is 'yes' or 'no', I'd have to say I'm not really sure. But it is my belief that if one ever does experience being able to see the Savior in this life then they will at some point either recieve a visitation from Satan or experience a spiritual attack by his forces leaving no doubt in the persons mind who it is. We can believe in Satan, just as we can believe in Christ but can we truly say we have a sure knowledge of something we have not seen or experienced? I believe there is a difference between believing something is real and knowing something is real. Sorry, I have a hard time expressing my thoughts, but I hope what I am trying to say made sense.

[marc]

Does KoZ speak from experience?

Maybe not always so. It's questionable in the cases of Moriancumr, Emer, Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, Moroni, etc.

Coach, you're right that a visit from Satan wasn't mentioned in any of those cases. However, except in the case of Nephi, none of those listed gives us more than a brief glimpse into their lives and the events thereof.

I'm inclined to agree with KoZ on this one- I have no doubt that someone who will receive the Lord's visits in their lives will also receive Satan at some point. Whether that always comes beforehand, I don't know.

Was Nephi special?

Food for thought.

[shadow]

Was Nephi special?

About as special as the brother of Jared or even the Nephites who survived the destruction prior to Christ personally visiting them. No, I don't believe the destruction was Satan.

[marc]

Was Nephi special?

About as special as the brother of Jared or even the Nephites who survived the destruction prior to Christ personally visiting them. No, I don't believe the destruction was Satan.

God is no respector of persons.

1 Nephi 1:1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

Why was Nephi favored?

[marc]

Here's a hint:

Alma 27:30 And thus they were a zealous and beloved people, a highly favored people of the Lord.

The people of Ammon (Anti-Nephi-Lehies) exemplified the same quality as Nephi. Chapter 27 is a GREAT chapter, by the way, and teaches us something about "following the prophet."

[Matthew.B]

Maybe not always so. It's questionable in the cases of Moriancumr, Emer, Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, Moroni, etc.

Coach, you're right that a visit from Satan wasn't mentioned in any of those cases. However, except in the case of Nephi, none of those listed gives us more than a brief glimpse into their lives and the events thereof.

Was Nephi special?

Did Nephi record everything he saw, heard, and experienced? No... I have no doubt Nephi was tempted, at some point, by Satan or one of his minions. Nephi was a covenant Patriarch, as was Lehi, and many covenant Patriarchs had run-ins with Satan (Moses' is given in the most detail, Abraham's is mentioned in 15:12). It's logical, in my opinion, to extend the evidence we do have to find a general law: one cannot be brought into the presence of the Great Light without also encountering the Great Dark at some point.

I define "covenant Patriarch" as "one who succeeded in making a covenant with the Lord to the effect of blessing his posterity forever".

[marc]

...one cannot be brought into the presence of the Great Light without also encountering the Great Dark at some point..

I definitely agree. There must be oppositions in all things. I know for certain that we do not have all of Nephi's words. And to answer Shadow:

1 Nephi 17: 35 Behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh in one; he that is righteous is favored of God. But behold, this people had rejected every word of God, and they were ripe in iniquity; and the fulness of the wrath of God was upon them; and the Lord did curse the land against them, and bless it unto our fathers; yea, he did curse it against them unto their destruction, and he did bless it unto our fathers unto their obtaining power over it.

Only the righteous are favored. Only the obedient are righteous. And only the obedient are blessed. No, Satan did not come to the Nephites prior to Christ's visit, but they did experienced a "Great Dark," drawing from Matthew's words. The Nephites experience three days of utter darkness before the sun rose on the fourth day.

20 And it came to pass that there was thick darkness upon all the face of the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof who had not fallen could feel the vapor of darkness;

21 And there could be no light, because of the darkness, neither candles, neither torches; neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood, so that there could not be any light at all;

22 And there was not any light seen, neither fire, nor glimmer, neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the stars, for so great were the mists of darkness which were upon the face of the land.

[gruden2.0]

As the Book of Mormon teaches, there is an opposition in all things. Those who have powerful spiritual encounters with deity and such inevitably have encounters with the dark side. Where you have one, you will have the other. There are scriptural examples.

The First Vision is obviously one, as mentioned before. In this case Joseph Smith encountered the power of the dark one prior to the vision.

With Moses, however, it was the opposite. In the Pearl of Great Price he encountered God first, then was left alone and encountered Lucifer.

Adam and Eve walked with God, but when He left Lucifer came to tempt them to transgress.

In Lehi's vision the iron rod (personal revelation) is opposed by the mists of darkness (false teachings and doctrine).

There was an incident in Church history in 1831 in Kirtland where Joseph called a special meeting where some would be ordained to the High Priesthood. In the beginning Joseph prophecied that some would see the Heavens opened, but also the Man of Sin (Satan) would make an appearance. Both indeed happened.

Also in Church history you have the case of Brigham Young and Woodruff et al in Britain where they had miracles and people joining the church in droves, but also did direct battle with evil spirits attempting to stop them.

While scripture does not always mention this duality, I know for myself that it does happen, and I know others have. And it only makes sense. Lucifer works hardest on those striving (and succeeding) in drawing close to the Lord. One goes with the other, and the Lord allows it for various reasons, and one is to learn and understand the operations of evil spirits in order to learn how to control and overcome them.

The greater manifestation of light, the greater the manifestation of darkness. If you don't find yourself at least occasionally being directly opposed, then you're probably not interesting enough to the forces of darkness to merit special attention (and they probably have you in their control already).

[Thinker]

As the Book of Mormon teaches, there is an opposition in all things. Those who have powerful spiritual encounters with deity and such inevitably have encounters with the dark side. Where you have one, you will have the other.

...The greater manifestation of light, the greater the manifestation of darkness. If you don't find yourself at least occasionally being directly opposed, then you're probably not interesting enough to the forces of darkness to merit special attention (and they probably have you in their control already).

Good points.
I'd add that the only way we can experience either is by being open to it.
Each of us are good at our cores, but we also have weaknesses.
It's essential to be humble to understand & deal with our weaknesses, so God can make them strong.

[HeberC]

Before the veil was parted for me, I had this experience: I went to a Catholic church with my father. We went in a little late and as soon as we knelt in the back, I felt nausea. It came on me suddenly and was increasing so I told my father I was going to be sick and I got up to leave. The chapel had eight concrete steps and just before I put my foot down on the first step, my vision blacked out completely. I was sure that I was going to eat one of those steps and smash all of my teeth out but my feet found all of the steps, almost at a run, without stumbling. As soon as my foot left the last step, the nausea and blindness left. It was as if a lightswitch was flipped.

Years later, when I prayed to know which, if any, church is true, the overwhelming feeling of love and light that filled me came to me instantly, but not until I knelt on the ground. Then, again, it was as if a lightswitch was flipped. In retrospect, there is at least some connection, here.