Sacrament Bread

[Liberty Bell]

Being strictly obedient to a man in authority can help you gain access to the Spirit of the Lord--if it's done in righteousness to glorify God, not yourself. Doing so will eventually lead to liberty. Joseph in Egypt is the classic example of this.

Disobedience to a man in authority can help him learn to lead better, so disobeying an authoritarian leader can be a righteous choice as well, if it's done in a spirit of love. The Spirit can guide you in your efforts to aid your leader in this way.

[LukeAir2008]

I have been struggling with this topic since Sunday. A priesthood leader taught in his Sunday talk that the white bread used in the Sacrament represents purity of the Savior. Our Stake President is very stern about only allowing white bread to be used as Sacrament bread.

BUT

D&C 27: 2 Reads- "For, Behold I say unto you, that it mattereth not what you shall eat or what you shall drink when you partake of the Sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory..........."

Am I missing something or is there a bit of philosophy of men being interjected into the Stake I live in?

Please help me out here.

He also taught that when we are baptized we are all washed clean. Eight year olds are not dirty because they have not been accountable until that time in there life, so how can they be washed clean when they have not been able to sin?

White bread, made from bleached, anaemic flour is a modern invention. I'll let you decide if your Stake President is making up his own doctrine... )

The baptismal doctrine is actually correct. Not being accountable does not mean you don't sin or break laws. It means you are excused from having to answer or face punishment for any laws which have been broken. As a five year old boy I had lied, stolen and done lots of other naughty things which were against God's law but which God in his wisdom decided that he wouldn't hold against me because of my immaturity until the clock strikes eight years...and then I'm fully accountable.

[JohnnyL]

Elder Jeffrey R. Holland gave a valuable teaching on this subject in general conference 13 years ago. Since most of our current deacons were not even born when these words were last spoken here, I repeat them for their benefit and that of their parents and teachers: “May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions” (“This Do in Remembrance of Me,” Ensign, Nov. 1995, 68).

Having been to the temple, and on a mission, I guess this is why 50% of the men in my sister's ward are excluded from having to wear a white shirt?

[kathyn]

Although you might disagree, I see the wearing of a white shirt (if available) as showing respect for the ordinance that the sacrament is. I think we LDS sometimes take the sacrament too casually and don't realize what a powerful ordinance it truly is. Society, in general is much more disrespectful now than ever before. Surely, we can show proper respect for the Lord's house by being dressed appropriately. If the poorest of all can dress in their best for church, we have no excuse. I don't believe in forcing anyone to dress a certain way, but surely it's a matter of respect for the Lord. When we attend the temple, we are to wear our Sunday best. Again, it's to show respect for the Lord, not for church leaders.

[Juliette]

Although you might disagree, I see the wearing of a white shirt (if available) as showing respect for the ordinance that the sacrament is. I think we LDS sometimes take the sacrament too casually and don't realize what a powerful ordinance it truly is. Society, in general is much more disrespectful now than ever before. Surely, we can show proper respect for the Lord's house by being dressed appropriately. If the poorest of all can dress in their best for church, we have no excuse. I don't believe in forcing anyone to dress a certain way, but surely it's a matter of respect for the Lord. When we attend the temple, we are to wear our Sunday best. Again, it's to show respect for the Lord, not for church leaders.

You hit the nail on the head kathyn. Come on, get a real problem. Why are people so stubborn? No son of mine would sit there in a
blue shirt for the sake of rebellion.
We have a family in our ward who felt like it was taking agency away from their sons to MAKE them attend church. Well, needless to say, this decision to let them make their choice didn't work out very well. One is in prison and the other on drugs. In my house, I have stewardship and that is not a choice. My daughters dress modestly and my sons wear white shirts. If you can't get up for church because you are too tired, you don't go anywhere Sat. night.
Why rebell over simple things when there are many, many, difficult things to overcome? Its prideful.

[MelissaM]

Although you might disagree, I see the wearing of a white shirt (if available) as showing respect for the ordinance that the sacrament is. I think we LDS sometimes take the sacrament too casually and don't realize what a powerful ordinance it truly is. Society, in general is much more disrespectful now than ever before. Surely, we can show proper respect for the Lord's house by being dressed appropriately. If the poorest of all can dress in their best for church, we have no excuse. I don't believe in forcing anyone to dress a certain way, but surely it's a matter of respect for the Lord. When we attend the temple, we are to wear our Sunday best. Again, it's to show respect for the Lord, not for church leaders.

You hit the nail on the head kathyn. Come on, get a real problem. Why are people so stubborn? No son of mine would sit there in a
blue shirt for the sake of rebellion.
We have a family in our ward who felt like it was taking agency away from their sons to MAKE them attend church. Well, needless to say, this decision to let them make their choice didn't work out very well. One is in prison and the other on drugs. In my house, I have stewardship and that is not a choice. My daughters dress modestly and my sons wear white shirts. If you can't get up for church because you are too tired, you don't go anywhere Sat. night.
Why rebell over simple things when there are many, many, difficult things to overcome? Its prideful.

Kathyn,18 years ago a letter had to go out from the Seattle Temple President that no one was to be turned away from temple attendance because of what they were wearing at the entrance. People with their temple recommend in hand were being told that they could not enter the House of the Lord because they were wearing work clothes. This was never my personal experience. Sometimes I unexpectedly got off work early and wanted to to go a session. Should I have been kept outside because I had scrubs on when I was going to change once I made entry? These are the forms that make no sense and are not of God.

Juliette, There was a family in my ward growing up that were always early to Church and immaculately dressed. When one son was in his early 20's my brother brought him to my parents door, who then lived in another state, to crash on their couch because the son was homeless, drug addicted, and did not have the courage to face his overbearing parents and be the Prodigal son. So sad that form was followed to such a tee and that this broken child had no idea of repentance. Why are people so stubborn as to not have any understanding of the Doctrine of Jesus Christ?

In my home I have stewardship and my decision is to teach the Gospel of Repentance per Moroni 8 and D&C 68. That revelation of God. White shirts, white bread, official talks and statements, official publications, official policy and procedure, books by general authorities, and conventional wisdom are not doctrine. Sincerely, must we be led in all things?

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There aren't white shirts in the scriptures. There are however plenty of instances where people are treated badly by those who profess righteousness.

I am grateful that my son attends, in spite of the bad treatment and hateful snide remarks. It shows me who these people are in spite of the many admonitions to the contrary. Some would say that he should just change his shirt. I say, it has been quite the education and because of it, I am realizing more and more how much I need to help those who are marginalized due to life circumstances rather than be so engrossed in maintaining my check the box status. How often do we not realize that our praise of large families tears at the hearts of those barren among us. How often do our primary songs hurt those who are the widows and orphans among us? How often do we not let those not among us at Church on Sunday know about any other activities that may uplift and edify? How often do we leave them by the wayside instead of helping them receive us as believers in Christ? I venture to state that we are so worried about checking all of the boxes of appropriate much like the Jews at the time of Christ, that we fail to see the opportunities around us to bring people to Christ and I honestly believe it is because we are not of Christ. We are so busy coming up with random conference quote after conference quote and conforming ourselves to what men ask of us that is not of scripture and looking to a Prophet to live instead of looking directly to our Savior and instead of learning of and teaching of Judgment, Mercy, Faith, Prayer, and Walking uprightly before God.

If one is offended by my child's blue because they cannot worship appropriately with him dressed that way, then I would encourage one to realize that any whited sepulchre can wear a white shirt. This is a Roman's 14 issue. I find in my corner of the wilderness that there is little love and many demands. Why would he want to join himself to unbelievers (unbelief being defined as philosophies of men mingled with scripture) like this? More and more I realize that we are exactly like the Jews. No wonder the marginalized saw the reality of Christ over those who were busy measuring their Sabbath day steps.

Would you prefer he not be in Church rather than not be in a white shirt? My neighbor would. She told me so to my face 2 weeks ago. What would you have me do? Beat him into it, or perhaps wrestle all 6ft 1in of him to the ground and make him change his shirt? That's not unrighteous dominion right? Sometimes he attends alone (I work on some Sundays in SLC and know that I am judged for it until you need me there to take care of your premature infant or after your emergency surgery on the “Sabbath.”) If this is the extent of a “rebellion” then I will take it. I laugh that this is his “rebellion.” Rebellion of wearing a blue shirt and being treated badly over it when he attends church solo. I thank God for a child like this. He gets it in his nonbelieving state far more than many others who draw near to Him with their mouths. There are many more horrific things he could be doing. I would like him to obtain the Gospel of Jesus Christ, If that doesn't include a testimony of a culturally constructed artificially created dress code based on North American business attire, I sincerely don't care.

My son is currently not a believer in the Church and may remain so with being treated so badly by those who claim Christ over something so completely inane. This is the crux for me. Do we rely so much on forms, that we are allowed to be uncharitable in our conduct toward the non-believer? Do we rely on hedges to the law so much that we forget Him who we profess to follow? If a white shirt is what it takes to see the face of Christ, then am all for it, but what He requires is a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Jesus Christ cares about having one's heart. “Follow me.” Once we really do we can be clothed in righteousness by Him, however in my ward, Christ would likely be thrown out for not being dressed “appropriately.”

It's all a head to my desk deal and I am no longer amazed by the reality that we, as a people, are not reading/studying/searching our scriptures, praying, and seeking the face of God and instead rely on men and a publications department to tell us what to do and then demand that others do the same regardless of their belief system.


Is a man's soul not worth more than a white shirt?
Melissa

[AussieOi]

Melissa

wow

what a wonderful post

i wish you were in my ward

i'd love to have you over to dinner and talk with my wife and I, chew the fat

keep writing here, so many of us can learn so much wit that kind of expression and content

really uplifting kind of comments

very few posts will get me to the end if they are that long. your did

i see it here. its a 40 degree day and people think they are being unrighteous if they take their suit jacket off. its is mindless observance

it is a church full of programs. and people who say they will be blessed for obeying their leaders.

where is christ in all this

i wonder if you are the type of person who gets up at starve and tell/ storimoney meeting 3/4s of the way through to make mention of our Saviour?

thank you melissa

[A Random Phrase]

Awesome post, Melissa.

[Darren]

I have been struggling with this topic since Sunday. A priesthood leader taught in his Sunday talk that the white bread used in the Sacrament represents purity of the Savior. Our Stake President is very stern about only allowing white bread to be used as Sacrament bread.

BUT

D&C 27: 2 Reads- "For, Behold I say unto you, that it mattereth not what you shall eat or what you shall drink when you partake of the Sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory..........."

Am I missing something or is there a bit of philosophy of men being interjected into the Stake I live in?

Please help me out here.

He also taught that when we are baptized we are all washed clean. Eight year olds are not dirty because they have not been accountable until that time in there life, so how can they be washed clean when they have not been able to sin?

When Jesus Christ came to Northern Europe (approximately 42 A.D.) he named most of the days of the Israelite week of the after the members of his Family. “Saturday,” “Zatterdag” in Dutch, and “Lordag” in Swedish, meant “Laws day.” He said that he was the Son of God, that he was both born and risen from the dead on the First Day of the Week. So he named it, “Son-day.” (In Scandinavia the name of the first day of the week is as in “Somebody’s SON” day, not “SUN up in the sky” day.)

On that day the People of all Northern Europe were to meet and eat “meat” and drink “mead” in his memory. From the people of all of the Communes, of Northern Europe, getting together to eat “meat,” the word “meet” came to mean to “gather.”

God Bless,
Darren

[Eddie Lyle]

The problem with forcing a rule like white shirts is that no one ever mentions the noose that men are "required" to wear around their necks. I'd much rather have a blue shirt wearing priest bless the sacrament than one with a white shirt with some garish logo or cartoon character or what not hanging from their neck. But in the end it doesn't matter what other people wear. What matters is the purity of our own hearts. If I let what someone is wearing, or how they style their hair interfere with my worship, then I am a shallow disciple of Christ.

[LukeAir2008]

I don't think anyone is disputing that it's preferable that those who administer the sacrament wear a white shirt.

The original question was about the bread. Does the bread have to be white?

That's a whole different matter.

[LukeAir2008]

The problem with forcing a rule like white shirts is that no one ever mentions the noose that men are "required" to wear around their necks. I'd much rather have a blue shirt wearing priest bless the sacrament than one with a white shirt with some garish logo or cartoon character or what not hanging from their neck. But in the end it doesn't matter what other people wear. What matters is the purity of our own hearts. If I let what someone is wearing, or how they style their hair interfere with my worship, then I am a shallow disciple of Christ.

+1

I was in a ward where the righteous saints complained that a young man from a poor family was not wearing the required outfit.

The Bishop told them to keep their noses out and he would decide who was worthy to administer the sacrament.

[prestodo]

I would say that anybody that uses or eats "white bread" anyway, is only depriving their self of nutrition found in whole grains. And, yes, the Stake President and Bishop are obviously twisting things to their own understanding in the instance of the sacrament bread. Hopefully they are not doing this with other principles of the gospel.

[Liberty Bell]

Ah, the noose, the wife's favorite accessory for her man!

My little brother's tie was never around his neck. Around his head, over his arm, dangling down his back, yes, but around the neck, no. Except the "eye tie". The eye tie made it around his neck and then went down to twist around two large eye balls.

Now what can they say about that? I mean, he's wearing a tie, isn't he?

[kathyn]

Melissa, I would turn no one away from Church. In our ward, we've had investigators (women) and other women show up in slacks from time to time. No one made them feel out of place. They were warmly welcomed. And yes, I would rather have my kids come to church, no matter the color of shirt. I was just saying, that as a matter of RESPECT for the Lord, we should dress appropriately. It's something we should do, not because it's mandated by church leaders, but because WE RESPECT the Lord's house....especially the temple. I too have gone from work to the temple, but I brought a change of clothes to work with me. If someone is poor and has only jeans to wear, please come to church. But for most people, that isn't the case and out of respect we should dress appropriately. Is that too hard to do?

And I'm of the camp that any bread will work for the sacrament. It doesn't have to be white. That's quite trivial, IMHO.

[MelissaM]

Melissa, I would turn no one away from Church. In our ward, we've had investigators (women) and other women show up in slacks from time to time. No one made them feel out of place. They were warmly welcomed. And yes, I would rather have my kids come to church, no matter the color of shirt. I was just saying, that as a matter of RESPECT for the Lord, we should dress appropriately. It's something we should do, not because it's mandated by church leaders, but because WE RESPECT the Lord's house....especially the temple. I too have gone from work to the temple, but I brought a change of clothes to work with me. If someone is poor and has only jeans to wear, please come to church. But for most people, that isn't the case and out of respect we should dress appropriately. Is that too hard to do?

And I'm of the camp that any bread will work for the sacrament. It doesn't have to be white. That's quite trivial, IMHO.

You missed my point completely. "Appropriate dress" is a cultural construct which has no bearing on our love of God. I believe that if we were to really wear "appropriate dress," it would be sackcloth and ashes, but then our society wold focus on who had the most impressively coarse sackcloth and the most finely ground ashes. This is not a respect issue. Outward signs and observances are simply that -outward. It is not my business what anyone chooses to wear, but should I choose to wear pants (because I don't subscribe to the idea that only dresses on women are appropriate) or scrubs (only because I might be able to only attend part of a meeting and go directly to work), or I may have been impressed by the Spirit to dress in that manner and it is no one's to say otherwise. Don't get all up in my grill over it or treat me badly, or whisper behind your hand, or drop off baked goods at my house to help me see the light. Try to let it go and evaluate why seeing someone stepping outside of a cultural construct is so disquieting and nerve wracking and filled with the belief that it is disrespectful.

I get off work sometimes unexpectedly and it is a random chance based on other child duty priorities to attend the temple. I don't routinely carry "appropriate dress" in my car because I often use my car for livestock chores like hauling feed etc. The temple is 5 minutes from work and I live 45 minutes away from both. I suppose I will find out if I am not admitted. It would be a marker for me should that happen- A marker that costly apparel is more important than service in the House of God.

Again, this is not a respect issue, it is not scriptural, not doctrinal, and is an artificial construct based in Western culture business attire.

AFA bread in any form for the sacrament there is no camp involved:
Doctrine and Covenants 27:1-2
1 Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Lord, your God, and your Redeemer, whose word is quick and powerful.

2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

This is the Lord speaking and I don't think he excuses himself. If anyone takes it upon themselves to make changes to revealed scripture, then I would really like to review their sources.

Perhaps if I didn't focus on the bread and what style it is, then I might be more open to focusing my eyes on what I should be seeing. . .

[ATL Wake]

Note to self: Do not get uppity in Melissa's grill.

[AussieOi]

we had brown bread on sunday
i know because i bought it
i doubt anyone noticed
my kids didnt
it appears this mormonism has not crept into my ward thankfully

[Messenger]

It doesn't matter what you use for bread. That's doctrine ... period. However there are certain people that simply cant get over putting in their own doctrine - but it isn't the Doctrine of Christ. They may have a personal policy, but to preach to individuals about doctrinal change, and them not being a G.A., well that's silly. They are short timers in my opinion.