Nuclear Strike before Sixth Seal Earthquake

[Book of Ruth]

Just wondering what all of you scriptorians think of this scenario. As I have been studying the sixth seal, I have read vs 12 and the earthquake over and over, but it is starting at vs 15 that has given me more pause.

What drives the rich and powerful men into dens? How/Why did the rich men have dens to retreat to in the first place? Could it be a nuclear war where the rich are hiding out in their underground bunkers to wait for the fallout to clear before they come out to reclaim their lives of prosperity?

Then, a massive earthquake hits while they are in their dens, and because they knew they had caused so much devastation, their reply is vs 16?

It only makes sense to me that the rich men had to KNOW that they were the cause of such an earthquake, and that the punishment was for them.
Hence, my take is some type of nuclear strike, BEFORE the earthquake of the sixth seal.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the asixth seal, and, lo, there was a great bearthquake; and the csun became dblack as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as eblood;
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the amountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great aday of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

[ndjili]

I'It could be that, this...

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

maybe being an event that was scary enough for...

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

because they think..

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

i.e. maybe the second coming or end of the world.

But He delayith his coming and it is not the end of the world but a final call to repentance before the judgements befall us. Which could be why there is a period of silence or peace in the heavens...to allow us time for repentance.

Just thinking out loud....

[Tribunal]

When I read these versus I don't think of earthquakes, but a massive nuclear attack.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Does this verse mean a 'great earthquake' or a great rumbling of the earth? Would a great earthquake cause world-wide destruction and cause the sun and moon to be blocked out?

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Picture the flares of nuclear missiles falling from the sky and it would resemble stars falling.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Picture the rolling wall of smoke from the point of nuclear detonation.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Do people normally hide in dens or mountains during or after an earthquake, or would they hide indoors and in mountains during a nuclear attack?

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Again, do people hide and seek shelter in mountains during or after earthquakes? I wouldn't!

[haddomr]

I believe a nuclear strike will happen sometime:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FwRQmb4SIk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[haddomr]

And Joel Skousen is saying the PTB are wanting a nuclear attack by our enemies...

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =5&t=22477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go to about 14:00 and listen for a couple of minutes.

[Book of Ruth]

Thanks Tribunal

We all know there is a massive earthquake. My questions came at the rich men going to the dens and mountains for safety. And more especially men with enough sin on their heads to recognize the Lords wrath.

So I thought, why would they run to their dens? Yes, safety. Then I thought how are they going to find all these "dens" in mountains? Its not a quick thing to get to a mountain den, there is no way they would have all this time to go find a den while an earthquake is going on. What if they already had their dens built, and they believed that these dens/mountains will save them. How do you get a bunch of kings, rich men, chiefs etc together specifically in the mountains at the same time, which is what happens in vs 15?

I got to thinking about all PTB's places of refuge's and why they built them. If I'm not mistaken, even back in the 50's bunkers were being built for a nuclear war.

So, here is my speculation, the PTB plan for a nuclear strike. When this strike happens, they are in their bunkers waiting for the all clear to come out. Instead of the all clear, a massive earthquake takes place, and their best laid plans are destroyed by the Lord. This begins a massive cleansing of especially U.S. PTB and opens the door for the whole 7th seal events including Gog/Magog.

Just my thoughts..... maybe I've gone and done it and completely lost my mind.

[HeirofNumenor]

Thanks Tribunal

We all know there is a massive earthquake. My questions came at the rich men going to the dens and mountains for safety. And more especially men with enough sin on their heads to recognize the Lords wrath.

So I thought, why would they run to their dens? Yes, safety. Then I thought how are they going to find all these "dens" in mountains? Its not a quick thing to get to a mountain den, there is no way they would have all this time to go find a den while an earthquake is going on. What if they already had their dens built, and they believed that these dens/mountains will save them. How do you get a bunch of kings, rich men, chiefs etc together specifically in the mountains at the same time, which is what happens in vs 15?

I got to thinking about all PTB's places of refuge's and why they built them. If I'm not mistaken, even back in the 50's bunkers were being built for a nuclear war.

So, here is my speculation, the PTB plan for a nuclear strike. When this strike happens, they are in their bunkers waiting for the all clear to come out. Instead of the all clear, a massive earthquake takes place, and their best laid plans are destroyed by the Lord. This begins a massive cleansing of especially U.S. PTB and opens the door for the whole 7th seal events including Gog/Magog.

Just my thoughts..... maybe I've gone and done it and completely lost my mind.

This is a very interesting take on it, Book of Ruth...Thanks!

[durangout]

Ok, OK. Everbody calm down....Before this thread get a little too out of control, let me take a crack at it.

First for some strange reason, nobody on this site when talking about these scriptures ever even mentions the JST of those verses. It changes the meaning dramatically:

KJV:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the asixth seal, and, lo, there was a great bearthquake; and the csun became dblack as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as eblood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her auntimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 aAnd the heaven departed as a bscroll when it is rolled together; and every cmountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the akings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the bdens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the amountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great aday of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to bstand?

Now the JST of verse 14:
And the heavens opened as a scroll is opened when it is rolled tegether; and every moutain, and island moved out of its place.

Notice the difference? The heavens did'n't roll up or roll together, they were OPENED. What does it mean for the "heavens to be open"? It simply means that God's influence is once again being felt or God is once again "working" with His children. The 6th Seal covers approximately the years 1000-2000 AD, right? OK, so what events happend that we know of during that time frame that shows that God's work began again during this time period? (hint: The Dark ages weren't dark b/c there was no sun; The Dark ages were dark b/c there was no spiritual light). I contend that the flurry of discovery and learning during the Renaissance, the printing of the Bible, the political freedoms that began creeping into the world, the founding of the New World, colonization and founding of America, the Constitution and most importantly the First Vision and the restoration of the Gosple were the direct result of the "heavens being opend". These are the events that are being represented by John in symbolic language.

Look for example earlier in the chapter. he talks of 4 horsemen. Were there literaly 4 horses of different colors running around? No, of course not, They REPRESENTED things, namely victory, death, war, plauge and famine. So doesn't it stand to reason that there may be other things written that are sybmolic too? Let me continue my "sybology". So when he talks about the stars falling from heaven to the earth, many time stars represent servants. Following that train of thought, those weren't literly stars falling b/c of an "earthquake" or nuke as some conjectured. The verse then really means that He sent servants to earth during this time when He was once again pouring out his Spirt upon the earth. I think it refers to people like Columbus, the framers of the constitution, Joseph smith and others.

Alright you say but what about the people hiding in the mountains or bunkers as has been suggested. First notice how many groups of people he mentioned...correct, 7! Interesting number. Very symbolic in it own right and more proof he's using symbolic language here. Now, look at Isa 2:10 but notice the chapter heading so you'll read it in context. You see that Isiaha and John are talking about the same time period--the last days when the Gosple is being restored, and Isiaha mentions no earthquake. People are "hiding" from the presence of the Lord--they are afraid of His judgments. People are "hiding" becauase of the great and fundamental changes to society (freedom makes the rulers fearful of the little people).

Sorry, I really haven't given the topic justice but this is where my studies have led me. I think if you open your minds to the symbolic language that the Revelator used here you'll see this too. Bottom line there will be no great earthquake as the great sign of the 6th Seal. The great sign of the 6th Seal was the restoration (of the Gosple (along with the other things I mentioned). This is why I feel the 6th Seal is over and we have already entered into the 7th Seal.

[LukeAir2008]

Thanks Tribunal

We all know there is a massive earthquake. My questions came at the rich men going to the dens and mountains for safety. And more especially men with enough sin on their heads to recognize the Lords wrath.

So I thought, why would they run to their dens? Yes, safety. Then I thought how are they going to find all these "dens" in mountains? Its not a quick thing to get to a mountain den, there is no way they would have all this time to go find a den while an earthquake is going on. What if they already had their dens built, and they believed that these dens/mountains will save them. How do you get a bunch of kings, rich men, chiefs etc together specifically in the mountains at the same time, which is what happens in vs 15?

I got to thinking about all PTB's places of refuge's and why they built them. If I'm not mistaken, even back in the 50's bunkers were being built for a nuclear war.

So, here is my speculation, the PTB plan for a nuclear strike. When this strike happens, they are in their bunkers waiting for the all clear to come out. Instead of the all clear, a massive earthquake takes place, and their best laid plans are destroyed by the Lord. This begins a massive cleansing of especially U.S. PTB and opens the door for the whole 7th seal events including Gog/Magog.

Just my thoughts..... maybe I've gone and done it and completely lost my mind.

I think the actual scripture is referring to the great and dreadful day of the Lord. There have been endless discussions and arguments over the chronology of Revelation and how John may have been describing events which actually overlapped two seals - the end of the sixth and the begining of the seventh etc. He describes the same events in Rev 16 as part of the 7th Seal.

I do like your theory on the nuclear attack and how the PTB hiding in their bunkers will be destroyed by the great earthquake.

That would be excellent and makes sense.

Prophecy indicates that the plans of the PTB to come out of their bunkers and establish a NWO does not go as intended. There must be divine intervention as we know the American continent is swept clean and Zion established. The fate of the Anglo-American establishment is destruction. The NWO is established by another world power for the rest of the planet but not the Americas.

[Tribunal]

Prophecy indicates that the plans of the PTB to come out of their bunkers and establish a NWO does not go as intended. There must be divine intervention as we know the American continent is swept clean and Zion established. The fate of the Anglo-American establishment is destruction. The NWO is established by another world power for the rest of the planet but not the Americas.

Where did you find the scripture to support this claim? I am especially interested in your claim that "the NWO is established by another power for the rest of the world but not the Americas."

[Lee]

I agree with durangout. I believe that we are done with the 6th seal and into the seventh. His explanation of the dark ages and then the heavens being opened as a scroll during the 6th seal, coincides with the end of the dark ages and the restoration of the gospel. One Jewish translator of Isaiah says that "mountains" means "nations."
If we can apply this to the 6th seal in Revelation, it would point out the political upheaval after 1000 AD. This is a possible answer to this puzzle.

[Melissa]

I agree that we need to look at the symbolism used. I also agree that we are in the 7th already. I am not ruling out any type of disasters that may be in our future though.

Doesn't the scripture say the earthquake happens at the opening of the 6th seal? Wouldn't that have been some time ago? Since we are well past the opening of the 6th? Just a thought.

[kathyn]

Book of Ruth, that was very interesting and durangout, your post was very well presented. Here's something to ponder....suppose that there is more than one fulfillment to the prophecy and you both could be right about some things. Another possibility, Book of Ruth is that TPTB know of an incoming comet or asteroid and the rich and powerful would have time to prepare for their safety but would not provide bunkers for the masses. That could certainly cause the great earthquake, and many of the events at the close of the 6th Seal and the opening of the Seventh Seal. Divine protection would be needed for the righteous.

That opens the possiblity of what Ndjili said about the moment of silence, and many thinking the Lord delayeth His coming because they thought it was the end of the world already.