Recognizing true messengers - Angels and spirits

[Amonhi]

A friend from this forum asked me about this topic and I thought we might all benefit from the discussion.

I have had experiences with being under the attack of evil spirits and I believe that I did have an experience with Heavenly messengers through a dream.

I will start with this...It is possible to cast Satan out of your life. Binding him from having power or influence over you directly just as he will be bound in the Millennium. This is one of the simple unspoken lessons of the Temple endowment. Satan can still effect you through others, as he did with Christ and the apostles, but not directly.

He gains power when you have faith in him. One of his greatest tools for instilling faith in him is fear. The more fear we have for him, the more faith we have that he is more powerful then we are. But the truth is that we have everything he has and more. We gained every blessing a spirit can gain before coming to earth. He on the other hand was cast out. Where his progression ended, ours continued. Now we have spirits and bodies. We have more power than he does! When we realize this, and begin to apply it, it scares him and he begins to put faith in us. (Not that we try to manipulate him with fear, but as a natural result of truth.) As a real world application, if you are being tempted or encounter a demon in any form, just tell it that you have power greater than it and it can leave the easy way or the hard way, but that it will leave. If it persists, you can raise your arm to the square and command it to leave in the name of Christ.

Anyway, going back to the topic at hand, recognizing true messengers. My friend brought up the point that fear of being deceived was causing some to be afraid to pray as spelled out in the thread, "The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling & Election Sure". My friend thought that it might be useful to discuss how to avoid being deceived so that we might be able to progress without fear.

Anyone want to start with some thoughts on the topic? Fruits of the spirit etc...Shake hands ...

[sbsion]

the "endowment" clearly points out that when we pray aloud WITHOUT first casting the evil spirits out, they hear us and answer our prayers FIRST

[reese]

Anyway, going back to the topic at hand, recognizing true messengers. My friend brought up the point that fear of being deceived was causing some to be afraid to pray as spelled out in the thread, "The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling & Election Sure". My friend thought that it might be useful to discuss how to avoid being deceived so that we might be able to progress without fear.

Anyone want to start with some thoughts on the topic? Fruits of the spirit etc...Shake hands ...

Well it seems to me that the whole assumtion on the Fastest Way to C&E thread is that the holy ghost will be the one answering you. I know there may be greater manifestations, but if it is all about the holy ghost not being able to lie, then most likely it will be the holy ghost that answers us, right?
So when I've received an answer from the holy ghost that is undeniable, it always gives a great sense of peace and joy and comfort and a re-commitment to move forward. I don't think that satan or any of his can duplicate those feelings, or cause them. So that is something I count on. My bigger struggle is to tell between my own thoughts and the promtings of the holy ghost. I don't know if I've had any experience with an angel. The temple tells us that they will come "discuised" to check on us, and if we "pass" that test then they will come in their true form to give us further light and knowledge. Is that the way it works?

[katmr]

D&C 129 has great insight.
It teaches there are 2 kind of beings in heaven. Angels who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones and secondly the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected but, inherit the same glory.
It teaches when a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you. If he be an angel he will he will do so and you will be able to feel his hand.
If he be a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear. Ask him to shake hands with you but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to decieve but he will still deliver his message.
If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him. Joseph Smith taught that the evil spirit will always try to decieve and so will always offer to shake your hand.

I came across a quote from Joseph Smith, I don't have it now but I will try to locate it. Joseph Smith was saying that basically this is important knowledge for us to have or we must remain in ignorance. We need to know these things because from my understanding it is also possible to be decieved on the other side of the veil and to learn and progress we must have this knowledge.

Would be interested in hearing thoughts on fruits of the spirit.....Thank you very much Ammonhi Thank you for the great insight sbsion and reese.

[swiftbrook]

Anyone want to start with some thoughts on the topic? Fruits of the spirit etc...Shake hands ...

Amonhi, I hope you're still around and will post more on this thread. I believe you can recognize an angel by the light in their face/eyes. I am seeking for true messengers to teach me. I would love to hear more from you on recognizing them and how we qualify to be taught by them.

[awake]

"There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light... Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation."
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 215-216.

"Though we (the Apostles) or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Gal. 1:8

"Beware, for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many." Matt. 24:5

"Until we have perfect love we are liable to fall; and when we have a testimony that our names are sealed in the Lamb's book of life, we have perfect love, and then it is impossible for false Christs to deceive us."
Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, p. 105. Minutes of a Conf. held at Orange, Ohio, 25 Oct. 1831.

[Alberta Rose]

[swiftbrook]

Cool story Alberta! Thanks for sharing.

[TheZemnarihahTree]

Good discussion on the visitation of spirits.

By my experience, evil spirits do directly meddle in the affairs of mankind, but as Amonhi relates, they only have power over us as we fear them and give them that power.

Other than by the "handshake," how do we call them out? There were some that bothered my family for quite some time, fully deceiving my wife and a brother, and nearly me as well. I was getting very worried, and began to fear myself, until I finally recognized the spirit of fear for what it was. I began challenging those family members, wholly keeping my cool, but the conversations always ended in billows of contention from them. I tried casting the evil spirits out many times the way we are taught to, which would work for a few days, until it was back on again. The problem was that the deceived in my family thought they were true messengers. One day one of the spirits tried to catch me in a trap, presenting itself as a true messenger commanding me to pray. This was clever -- one could not contend that they should not pray because to say such is not right, but if one should pray at the command of a devil it would also not be right. It was as if it knew I wouldn't listen, so no sooner had it commanded me thus, it proceeded in boldness to spout a seeming endless diatribe about the destructions and calamities that would befall me unless I did it right away. I told the spirit that I would only pray in faith, and not out of fear, and that it had best get about downloading those calamities upon me because I was not going to listen. It spat and ranted, and inspired my wife to leave me that same hour. I was heartbroken, but felt victorious. To my surprise, the next day my wife came back and told me I was right and that she had been deceived. I gave her a priesthood blessing and in that blessing she was given a shield and protection that stands firm against their influence to this day.

[morgsthemormon]

the "endowment" clearly points out that when we pray aloud WITHOUT first casting the evil spirits out, they hear us and answer our prayers FIRST

NICE THOUGHT! Very nice! Thanks for that one. I needed that insight! He's right there quick to answer, it so clear. Wow really thanks. :0)

[morgsthemormon]

Well, my thought right off, is that we neglect this portion of priesthood power. The power to cast out, the talent to recognize and resist Satan and the confidence to put him aside. So we just sit and suffer and pray, but forget or don't think to send him away. This is clearly done in the temple before the administering visitors do any teaching in the temple, so why don't we? We are lead to believe Satan and his workers are not there. It frustrates me, it upsets me that his power goes so unchecked by the priesthood in our world today. I believe this is a very under used action in the priesthood, along with the under use of priesthood blessings. Many believe it is only proper to bless when someone is near death, or only when major trials are afoot....lame. We should use the priesthood all the time, didn't Jesus?

I have often wondered what would happen if a quorum of the priesthood united in this action, lead by a key holder like the bishop what could happen in that wards boundaries? Where is the "Lord God of Joesph Smith?" In the last 10 years, I have only heard preaching that has lit my "bones on fire" a few times. One of them was a mission pres in Philadelphia who lead the mission from a few hundred baptism a year to 1000 the first year and up from there, which lead to a temple being built.

How often do I teach with the power to light people with fire.... I need to fast more. I need to use the tongue of angles more. I need to put satan in his place more with the faith you suggest Amonhi... I will seek the Lord's will on this one.

Thoughts?

[morgsthemormon]

Well, my thought right off, is that we neglect this portion of priesthood power. The power to cast out, the talent to recognize and resist Satan and the confidence to put him aside. So we just sit and suffer and pray, but forget or don't think to send him away. This is clearly done in the temple before the administering visitors do any teaching in the temple, so why don't we? We are lead to believe Satan and his workers are not there. It frustrates me, it upsets me that his power goes so unchecked by the priesthood in our world today. I believe this is a very under used action in the priesthood, along with the under use of priesthood blessings. Many believe it is only proper to bless when someone is near death, or only when major trials are afoot....lame. We should use the priesthood all the time, didn't Jesus?

I have often wondered what would happen if a quorum of the priesthood united in this action, lead by a key holder like the bishop what could happen in that wards boundaries? Where is the "Lord God of Joesph Smith?" In the last 10 years, I have only heard preaching that has lit my "bones on fire" a few times. One of them was a mission pres in Philadelphia who lead the mission from a few hundred baptism a year to 1000 the first year and up from there, which lead to a temple being built.

How often do I teach with the power to light people with fire.... I need to fast more. I need to use the tongue of angles more. I need to put satan in his place more with the faith you suggest Amonhi... I will seek the Lord's will on this one.

Thoughts?

[Kingdom of ZION]

The Eight Points of Discerning Heavenly Messengers...

Discerning of Spirits by Power of Priesthood

Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor's
spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they
have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion
whereby they can test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or
height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a
criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a
knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not; and if such ignorance as this is
manifested about a spirit of this kind, who can describe an angel of
light? If Satan should appear as one in glory, [1] who can tell his color,
[2] his signs, [3] his appearance, [4] his glory, or [5] what is the manner of his
manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French prophets [like Nostradamus] with
their revelations and their visions, and power of manifestations? Or who
can point out the spirit of the Irvingites, with their apostles and
prophets, and visions and tongues, and interpretations, etc. Or who can
drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits
that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We
answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a
knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows
the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of
the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence
which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the
Priesthood the mysteries operations of his devices; without knowing the
[1] angelic form, [2] the sanctified look and [3] gesture, and [4] the zeal that is
frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with [5] the
prophetic spirit, [6] the gracious influence, [7] the godly appearance, and [8] the
holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his
mysterious windings.

A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into
daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its
soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater
injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false
spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt
the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages
have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery and ruin have
followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown,
provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliments in
which it has been clothed.
[comments added in Brackets]

From "Try the Spirits" The Prophet's Editorial in the Times and Seasons; also
(April 9, 1842.) DHC 4:587 and is found in TPJS.

Shalom

[Gad]

Adam and Eve, after being cast out of the Garden of Eden, built an altar on which to offer sacrifices. For many years they prayed and Satan answered teaching all manner of false doctrine.

But Adam and Eve were not deceived. They obeyed the law they received in the Garden and continued to offer sacrifices despite all temptations, testings, and trials.

When the Lord saw that Adam and Eve would remain true to their covenants and accepted their sacrifice, He sent true messengers to give Adam and Eve further light and knowledge.

One of the signs that these were true messengers was that Satan (who had been a constant presence during their journey in the lone and dreary world) was cast out of their presence. In addition to the sudden and rapid acquisition of light and knowledge was a corresponding drop of the temptations and trials that they had been burdened with for many years.

It was the true messengers that cast out Satan, not Adam and Eve. This is one of the signs that you have found true messengers. As Christ taught, Satan cannot cast out Satan.

Mark 3:22 ¶And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

27 No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

[ATL Wake]

I heard Denver once say (and I recently read another account, which is what is bringing this to my mind) that in the spirit world they do not talk. Communication is done by thoughts and voices are only used for singing.

If that is the case, then if an angel came to you, couldn't you test it by not speaking aloud, but only communicating by thinking?


I really don't know. If anyone else has heard that angels communicate through thinking, I'd appreciate a third witness.

[lundbaek]

In an article about Charles Lindbergh "Lone Legacy" by James Perloff in the 21 May edition of The New American magazine , on Page 39:

"Not until many years later did Lindbergh reveal that, 24 hours into his flight, weightless angelic beings appeared in and around his plane, advising him about the flight and "reassuring me, giving me messages of importance unattainable in ordinary life."

[Kingdom of ZION]

Look for the Halo O:-) (sniker)

[Gad]

I heard Denver once say (and I recently read another account, which is what is bringing this to my mind) that in the spirit world they do not talk. Communication is done by thoughts and voices are only used for singing.

If that is the case, then if an angel came to you, couldn't you test it by not speaking aloud, but only communicating by thinking?


I really don't know. If anyone else has heard that angels communicate through thinking, I'd appreciate a third witness.

I heard that same thing from Denver. I had never really thought about it, but every spiritual communication I received of that nature was as Denver described.

[marc]

the "endowment" clearly points out that when we pray aloud WITHOUT first casting the evil spirits out, they hear us and answer our prayers FIRST

NICE THOUGHT! Very nice! Thanks for that one. I needed that insight! He's right there quick to answer, it so clear. Wow really thanks. :0)

3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart.

4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.

5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.


I wonder if Enos first cast evil spirits out or if he even needed to.

[ATL Wake]

I was reading yesterday a scripture that should help people avoid being deceived.

Mosiah 27:

11 And as I said unto you, as they were going about arebelling against God, behold, the bangel of the Lord cappeared unto them; and he descended as it were in a cloud; and he spake as it were with a voice of thunder, which caused the earth to shake upon which they stood;

12 And so great was their astonishment, that they fell to the earth, and understood not the words which he spake unto them.

15 And now behold, can ye dispute the power of God? For behold, doth not my voice shake the earth? And can ye not also behold me before you? And I am sent from God.

[A Random Phrase]

[davedan]

When we open with prayer and invite the Holy Ghost to be present, Satan cannot also be present. Light and darkness cannot occupy the same space.

We don't need to do things differently in the church then the way we have been taught to do them. It's more important to be unified and support our leaders. As we do this, the Church membership will continue in our growth and sanctification.

[A Random Phrase]

When we open with prayer and invite the Holy Ghost to be present, Satan cannot also be present. Light and darkness cannot occupy the same space.

True. If the Holy Ghost is present the other cannot be. Mutually exclusive, like you said.

[Alberta Rose]

[Walden]

Good discussion on the visitation of spirits.

By my experience, evil spirits do directly meddle in the affairs of mankind, but as Amonhi relates, they only have power over us as we fear them and give them that power.

Other than by the "handshake," how do we call them out? There were some that bothered my family for quite some time, fully deceiving my wife and a brother, and nearly me as well. I was getting very worried, and began to fear myself, until I finally recognized the spirit of fear for what it was. I began challenging those family members, wholly keeping my cool, but the conversations always ended in billows of contention from them. I tried casting the evil spirits out many times the way we are taught to, which would work for a few days, until it was back on again. The problem was that the deceived in my family thought they were true messengers. One day one of the spirits tried to catch me in a trap, presenting itself as a true messenger commanding me to pray. This was clever -- one could not contend that they should not pray because to say such is not right, but if one should pray at the command of a devil it would also not be right. It was as if it knew I wouldn't listen, so no sooner had it commanded me thus, it proceeded in boldness to spout a seeming endless diatribe about the destructions and calamities that would befall me unless I did it right away. I told the spirit that I would only pray in faith, and not out of fear, and that it had best get about downloading those calamities upon me because I was not going to listen. It spat and ranted, and inspired my wife to leave me that same hour. I was heartbroken, but felt victorious. To my surprise, the next day my wife came back and told me I was right and that she had been deceived. I gave her a priesthood blessing and in that blessing she was given a shield and protection that stands firm against their influence to this day.

Thank you for this. It has great relevance with one of my best friends, as I am in the same position you were now. It is frightening sometimes, but God willing we'll make it through. Again, Thank you so much.