LDS Freedom Forum

Pontius explains the difference between the HG and Holy Spirt quite well in Following T Light into His Presence.

Njb

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:Pontius explains the difference between the HG and Holy Spirt quite well in Following T Light into His Presence.

Njb

Very good point. An excellent volume.

boo wrote:

Jeremy wrote:I'm still missing it. Someone help?! Please. Am I the only one who sees a paradox here?
Thanks for trying FFA. But I just do NOT see how that helps... other than I just take his word for it. But I want to KNOW. I want to understand.

Jeremy I am confident that you already know and know more fully than I. Nonetheless I take the bait and say that I believe it is clear that the Holy Ghost and the holy spirit are not the same .Unfortunately the scriptures ,while inspired, are ultimately the words of fallible men and usually lack a careful definitional section such as you might find in a well crafted legal agreement. Hence ambiguities occur. The Holy Ghost dwells within us as a personage of spirit and our bodies are its temple. 1 Corth 6:19. As our deepest spiritual component it will have to pass through probations with us until we are ultimately exalted. Hence Joseph's statement that that the" Holy Ghost would have to pass through a similar course of things as the Son has" and as we will If we don't we can not inherit the things the Father has for us. Lectures on Faith 6 v 8.It is as we learn to follow its voice that we will reach our potential as sons of god. The Holy Spirit is the mind of God and the Godhead ( the father and son) Lectures on Faith #5. It can range throughout time and space since it is not confined to a body or spirit.Think of the Light of Christ D&C 88:7 Incidentally while I quite liked Marion G Romney and admired his willingness to talk about thing like C/E in general conference he was not infallible and think he made some errors in this talk.

Jeremy knows EXACTLY what he's talking about - he just likes to make people think ;) .

FF - WHO is the Holy Ghost? THAT is important to understand. That's what all this is leading up to.

Ask yourself these questions. Just how many is "us"? And where does "us" reside? If two people on opposite sides of the earth receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at the same time, does only one get it and the other has to wait? Verse 22 kind of answers these things for us does it not? As a personage of spirit it can dwell in multiple persons at the same time.

Again, this is an example of your reading something, making assumptions based on traditions, and say the scripture says something that it doesn't say.

Even you say "if two people receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....etc" and I am saying to you again the Gift of the Holy Ghost is NOT THE SAME THING as the Holy Ghost.

You say verse 22 kind of answers those things. I agree with every single thing in verse 22, so either one of us is missing something, or one of us is adding to what is actually said, we are adding what we think we read because we think we already have the answer. I know which of us you feel is mistaken, and if "getting the win" is what matters to you, fine, you win.

The Holy Ghost can and does dwell in our hearts.
The Holy Ghost is a personage (personage means in the image of a person, btw) of spirit. So please get the Catholic idea of any member of the Godhead being some kind of universe sized nebulous blob out of your head. Based on what personage means, the only way the HG fills the universe is if the universe itself in the form of a person (not impossible).
You also seem to think the HG is some kind of being that can process experience of billions of beings simultaneously - an infinite multitasker - now if anything I am saying is making you uncomfortable, I suggest taking it up with the Lord, he loves questions (and questioners!) Of course you can just retreat into God's ways are not man's ways, this is something we simply can't comprehend - I tell you that it is comprehensible, but a full cup can't be filled any more....

Jules wrote:

boo wrote:

Jeremy wrote:I'm still missing it. Someone help?! Please. Am I the only one who sees a paradox here?
Thanks for trying FFA. But I just do NOT see how that helps... other than I just take his word for it. But I want to KNOW. I want to understand.

Jeremy I am confident that you already know and know more fully than I. Nonetheless I take the bait and say that I believe it is clear that the Holy Ghost and the holy spirit are not the same .Unfortunately the scriptures ,while inspired, are ultimately the words of fallible men and usually lack a careful definitional section such as you might find in a well crafted legal agreement. Hence ambiguities occur. The Holy Ghost dwells within us as a personage of spirit and our bodies are its temple. 1 Corth 6:19. As our deepest spiritual component it will have to pass through probations with us until we are ultimately exalted. Hence Joseph's statement that that the" Holy Ghost would have to pass through a similar course of things as the Son has" and as we will If we don't we can not inherit the things the Father has for us. Lectures on Faith 6 v 8.It is as we learn to follow its voice that we will reach our potential as sons of god. The Holy Spirit is the mind of God and the Godhead ( the father and son) Lectures on Faith #5. It can range throughout time and space since it is not confined to a body or spirit.Think of the Light of Christ D&C 88:7 Incidentally while I quite liked Marion G Romney and admired his willingness to talk about thing like C/E in general conference he was not infallible and think he made some errors in this talk.

Jeremy knows EXACTLY what he's talking about - he just likes to make people think ;) .

FF - WHO is the Holy Ghost? THAT is important to understand. That's what all this is leading up to.

At this point I am willing to bow out of this conversation. I have given my view, backed by scripture and talks. The responsibility of knowing who the Holy Ghost is does not rest on me any longer, fore I already know. The people here who reject my words and documented proof have their own beliefs and I'm fine with that. I will not bend truth to blend in, rather, I will stick with what I know to be true because of my studies and prayers...and that is all that matters. What everyone else believes does not effect my salvation in the least. Precepts of men are just that, precepts of men. Questions I pose get ignored. Scriptures I cite get torn apart, thus, we are going nowhere. The lectures on faith were known not to give a full account of the members of the Godhead, whereas, scriptures (that I have already posted) teach us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one God. That's good enough for me. For those that reject this, what more can I say. If I believe these scriptures and they do not, who is responsible for the rejection?

Original_Intent wrote:

Ask yourself these questions. Just how many is "us"? And where does "us" reside? If two people on opposite sides of the earth receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at the same time, does only one get it and the other has to wait? Verse 22 kind of answers these things for us does it not? As a personage of spirit it can dwell in multiple persons at the same time.

Again, this is an example of your reading something, making assumptions based on traditions, and say the scripture says something that it doesn't say.

Even you say "if two people receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....etc" and I am saying to you again the Gift of the Holy Ghost is NOT THE SAME THING as the Holy Ghost.

You say verse 22 kind of answers those things. I agree with every single thing in verse 22, so either one of us is missing something, or one of us is adding to what is actually said, we are adding what we think we read because we think we already have the answer. I know which of us you feel is mistaken, and if "getting the win" is what matters to you, fine, you win. I told you what Marion Romney said and he didn't mince words.

The Holy Ghost can and does dwell in our hearts. And minds.
The Holy Ghost is a personage (personage means in the image of a person, btw) of spirit. So please get the Catholic idea of any member of the Godhead being some kind of universe sized nebulous blob out of your head. Based on what personage means, the only way the HG fills the universe is if the universe itself in the form of a person (not impossible).
You also seem to think the HG is some kind of being that can process experience of billions of beings simultaneously - an infinite multitasker - now if anything I am saying is making you uncomfortable, I suggest taking it up with the Lord, he loves questions (and questioners!) Of course you can just retreat into God's ways are not man's ways, this is something we simply can't comprehend - I tell you that it is comprehensible, but a full cup can't be filled any more....

And I know this philosophy is in error, so where do you go from here? Do you think that the HG is just some guy who sits on his hind end and hangs out a shingle that says "come unto me and I'll teach you some things about yourself, and if you really press me, I may throw in some things about God?"

BTW, when Christ appeared to the brother of Jared, he appeared as a personage of spirit.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

The Holy Ghost has the power and authority to influence any person at any time as witness to Jesus and the Father, it is his role. Even in the Book of Mormon many people were converted to the gospel at the very same moment...and it was the Holy Ghost doing it. I rest my case OI. Sorry to burst your bubble. You know what opinions are equated to. What I teach comes out of scripture, and is not an opinion.

freedomforall wrote:The lectures on faith were known not to give a full account of the members of the Godhead, whereas, scriptures (that I have already posted) teach us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one God.

Does the foregoing account of the Godhead lay a sure foundation for the exercise of faith in him unto life and salvation?" - "It does." Questions and Answers from page 58 of 1835 D&C

The lectures might not give a full account, but apparently they lay a sure foundation. When something contradicts this sure foundation I have to start asking questions. I lack wisdom. I lack knowledge.

As for knowing what I'm talking about...Jules is incorrect. I would like to help us think more though.

Jeremy wrote:

freedomforall wrote:The lectures on faith were known not to give a full account of the members of the Godhead, whereas, scriptures (that I have already posted) teach us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one God.

Does the foregoing account of the Godhead lay a sure foundation for the exercise of faith in him unto life and salvation?" - "It does." Questions and Answers from page 58 of 1835 D&C

The lectures might not give a full account, but apparently they lay a sure foundation. When something contradicts this sure foundation I have to start asking questions. I lack wisdom. I lack knowledge.

As for knowing what I'm talking about...Jules is incorrect. I would like to help us think more though.

Accepting the scriptures I showed where the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one...will give a sure foundation as well. They provide knowledge and can make people wise.
Here is another sure foundation: we believe in God the eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
and: we believe the bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Who are the elect?


Doctrine and Covenants 29:7
7 And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:22
22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

2 Timothy 2:10
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:39
39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

Luke 18:7
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Matthew 24:31
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Doctrine and Covenants 33:6
6 And even so will I gather mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, even as many as will believe in me, and hearken unto my voice.

Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Doctrine and Covenants 84:34
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:23
23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the elect’s sake; and you also shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:27
27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:29
29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

1 Peter 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Matthew 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Isaiah 45:4
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Titus 1:1
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Doctrine and Covenants 35:20
20 And a commandment I give unto thee—that thou shalt write for him; and the scriptures shall be given, even as they are in mine own bosom, to the salvation of mine own elect;

Isaiah 65:9
9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

1 Timothy 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

1 Peter 2:6
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Isaiah 42:1
1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:37
37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Moses 7:62
62 And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.

Election — Bible Dictionary
The elect are chosen even “before the foundation of the world,” yet no one is unconditionally elected to eternal life. Each must, for himself, hearken to the gospel and receive its ordinances and covenants from the hands of the servants of the Lord in order to obtain salvation. If one is elected but does not serve, his election could be said to have been in vain, as Paul expressed in 2 Cor. 6:1.

The concept held by many that God unconditionally elected some to be saved and some to be damned without any effort, action, or choice on their part is not correct, for the scriptures teach that it is only by faith and obedience that one’s calling and election is made sure (2 Pet. 1; D&C 131:5). See also Abraham, covenant of.

Righteous followers of Christ can become numbered among the elect who gain the assurance of exaltation. This calling and election begins with repentance and baptism. It becomes complete when they “press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end” (2 Ne. 31:19–20). The scriptures call this process making our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:4–11; D&C 131:5–6).

Freedomforall, Let go of man's reasoning and hear the word of the Lord. Not on the written page but in your heart, it will lead you to the truth. The Holy Ghost is a person of Spirit. As such, he can be in only one place at one time. The power of the Holy Ghost is quite a different matter.

The Spirit of God which emanates from Deity may be likened to electricity, ...which fills the earth and the air, and is everywhere present. It is the power of God, the influence that he exerts throughout all his works, by which he can effect his purposes and execute his will, in consonance with the laws of free agency which he has conferred upon man. (Gospel Doctrine, p 61-62, see also Mormon Doctrine "Spirit of the Lord")

The Savior while on earth declared that "It is the spirit that quickeneth" (John 6:63); and in modern times, speaking to Joseph Smith the Prophet, He said, "the Spirit beareth record" (D. & C. 1:39; 59:24); and "the Spirit giveth light to every man." (D. & C. 84:46) The Apostle Paul, interpreting life in terms of this doctrine, wrote "the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." (I Corinthians 2:11) This profound yet almost self-evident truth is the beginning of an understanding of the gospel.

The radio now found in almost every household illustrates the meaning of this doctrine. Broadcast throughout space are countless messages, music or the spoken word—some good, others bad. We are immersed in these radio waves or radiations or whatever they may be; they beat upon our senses as waves upon the ocean shore. Yet, we are not conscious of them unless our receiving set is tuned to catch them. Then they are converted into sound waves that activate our eardrums. That which eluded our senses, suddenly enters our world of hearing. ...It is so in the pursuit of spiritual truth. There, the seeker deals with living, personal realities; not primarily with the inert, impersonal things and forces of science. The Holy Spirit, which is in touch with every person born into the world, is the communicating agent. In this field, man, a living being, must be the chief instrument of reception as well as the interpreter of the knowledge offered by the Spirit of God. Therefore, the individual must be properly prepared, tuned, if he is to receive and to comprehend spiritual truth. In short, to understand "things of God," a person, who is the receiving apparatus, must qualify himself spiritually.(Widstoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, "11. Why Cannot the Things of God be Known But by the Spirit of God" http://www.cumorah.com/language/evidenc ... tions.html)

I'm out of time but there are more such quotes. However, as I said, they are of little worth if a person does not tune themselves to hear the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost.

freedomforall wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:

Ask yourself these questions. Just how many is "us"? And where does "us" reside? If two people on opposite sides of the earth receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at the same time, does only one get it and the other has to wait? Verse 22 kind of answers these things for us does it not? As a personage of spirit it can dwell in multiple persons at the same time.

Again, this is an example of your reading something, making assumptions based on traditions, and say the scripture says something that it doesn't say.

Even you say "if two people receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....etc" and I am saying to you again the Gift of the Holy Ghost is NOT THE SAME THING as the Holy Ghost.

You say verse 22 kind of answers those things. I agree with every single thing in verse 22, so either one of us is missing something, or one of us is adding to what is actually said, we are adding what we think we read because we think we already have the answer. I know which of us you feel is mistaken, and if "getting the win" is what matters to you, fine, you win. I told you what Marion Romney said and he didn't mince words.

The Holy Ghost can and does dwell in our hearts. And minds.
The Holy Ghost is a personage (personage means in the image of a person, btw) of spirit. So please get the Catholic idea of any member of the Godhead being some kind of universe sized nebulous blob out of your head. Based on what personage means, the only way the HG fills the universe is if the universe itself in the form of a person (not impossible).
You also seem to think the HG is some kind of being that can process experience of billions of beings simultaneously - an infinite multitasker - now if anything I am saying is making you uncomfortable, I suggest taking it up with the Lord, he loves questions (and questioners!) Of course you can just retreat into God's ways are not man's ways, this is something we simply can't comprehend - I tell you that it is comprehensible, but a full cup can't be filled any more....

And I know this philosophy is in error, so where do you go from here? Do you think that the HG is just some guy who sits on his hind end and hangs out a shingle that says "come unto me and I'll teach you some things about yourself, and if you really press me, I may throw in some things about God?"

BTW, when Christ appeared to the brother of Jared, he appeared as a personage of spirit.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

The Holy Ghost has the power and authority to influence any person at any time as witness to Jesus and the Father, it is his role. Even in the Book of Mormon many people were converted to the gospel at the very same moment...and it was the Holy Ghost doing it. I rest my case OI. Sorry to burst your bubble. You know what opinions are equated to. What I teach comes out of scripture, and is not an opinion.

Interesting conversation about the Holy Ghost. I don't want anyone giving up on knowing the Holy Ghost more fully. We need to have such a close relationship with him that you have the same mind.

His role is very important in the Godhead and naturally so is yours. It's role is to sanctify you by fire and guide you by pure intelligence unto sanctification. We are to know and have such an intimate relationship with the Holy Ghost that we actually MAKE it our constant companion. It is a gift that is inside you and dwells within you.

Life changing revelation is information relayed to you that hasn't entered your heart previously. In my experience, the obstacle in receiving this revelation is the fact that one thinks he knows something. I say in my experience because i was the biggest offender of this. I had read a lot throughout my life and thought I knew something. So every time I read the scriptures I was simply reaffirming everything I thought I knew. I was not open to revelation.

I was very surprised once I really received revelation. It made me realize that everything beforehand wasn't.

Life changing revelation should be happening frequently, daily, everytime one is diligently studying the scriptures as a little child.

1. Holiness: In more than 90 places, the Bible calls the Spirit of God “the Holy Spirit.” Holiness is a basic characteristic of the Spirit. The Spirit is so holy that blasphemy against the Spirit cannot be forgiven, although blasphemy against Jesus could be (Matthew 12:32). Insulting the Spirit is just as sinful as trampling the Son of God under foot (Hebrews 10:29). This indicates that the Spirit is inherently holy, holy in essence, rather than having an assigned or secondary holiness such as the temple had. The Spirit also has the infinite attributes of God: unlimited in time, space, power and knowledge.

2. Eternality: The Holy Spirit, the Counselor, will be with us “forever” (John 14:16). The Spirit is “eternal” (Hebrews 9:14).

3. Omnipresence: David, praising God’s greatness, asked, “Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there” (Psalm 139:7-8). God’s Spirit, which David uses as a synonym for the presence of God himself, is in heaven and in sheol (verse 8), in the east and in the west (verse 9). God’s Spirit can be said to be poured out on someone, to fill a person, or to descend — yet without implying that the Spirit has moved away from or vacated some other place. Thomas Oden observes that “such statements are grounded in the premises of omnipresence and eternality — attributes ascribed properly only to God” (Life in the Spirit, p. 18).

4. Omnipotence: The works that God does, such as creation, are also ascribed to the Holy Spirit (Job 33:4;Psalm 104:30). Miracles of Jesus Christ were done “by the Spirit” (Matthew 12:28). In Paul’s ministry, the work that “Christ has accomplished” was done “through the power of the Spirit” (Romans 15:18-19).

5. Omniscience: “The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God,” Paul said (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Spirit of God “knows the thoughts of God” (verse 11). The Spirit therefore knows all things, and is able to teach all things (John 14:26).
Holiness, eternality, omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience are attributes of God’s essence, that is, characteristic of the nature of divine existence. The Holy Spirit has the basic attributes of God.

.

rproe67 wrote:This is WAY TOO LONG and has been made complicated beyond belief! :ymsick: Then buy a slow watch, you can get more done that way. As for being too long, take it up with Marion G Romney. I am not the author of the message, only the messenger of it. Besides, take note of how many long posts are posted. One would think books are in the works. :ymsigh:

If I try to prove something using everyone else's words even a former "prophet", how can that be convincing?! I'm patiently learning that if I want to know truth, it has to come directly from God...to "my" spirit! O:-)

Just reads the larger font and discover that I know what I'm talking about. The Holy Ghost has the power to be everywhere. Let's pose the question like this:
If the personage of Spirit known as the HG cannot be everywhere at the same time, then how is it that people all over the globe can feel his influence or get guidance from him, all simultaneously?

freedomforall wrote:
Just reads the larger font and discover that I know what I'm talking about. The Holy Ghost has the power to be everywhere. Let's pose the question like this:
If the personage of Spirit known as the HG cannot be everywhere at the same time, then how is it that people all over the globe can feel his influence or get guidance from him, all simultaneously?

Personally, I visualize the Holy Ghost as a network, like the Internet. But, instead of computers or nodes being all linked together to form a network or an internet, with the Holy Ghost, you have lots of different spirit beings all linked together telepathically to a central server, the God that we call the Holy Ghost.

FFA That is easy and has been explained before .Let him who has ears hear. Each of us is our own Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the divine, eternal ,personage of spirit or " record of heaven" which dwells within us and whose whisperings we must learn to discern if we are to find our way back to the Father. Paul was not just speaking metaphorically when he said "know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost WHO IS IN YOU"" I Corth 6:19. I have pointed this out previously on this very thread. You can of course continue to ignore this truth or you can pray about it with an open and believing mind and perhaps your own "record of heaven" may whisper the truth of it to you. Try the experiment and good luck

The fastest way to have your calling and election made sure if you are of the house of Ephraim is to answer the call that you have been elected to do.

Answer the call to assist in bringing his bride out of the closet and redeeming Zion and meeting with the Lord face to face at his wedding feast and be baptized with fire from on high.

Read D&C section 58 and see what you have been honored and chosen to do:)

boo wrote:FFA That is easy and has been explained before .Let him who has ears hear. Each of us is our own Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the divine, eternal ,personage of spirit or " record of heaven" which dwells within us and whose whisperings we must learn to discern if we are to find our way back to the Father. Paul was not just speaking metaphorically when he said "know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost WHO IS IN YOU"" I Corth 6:19. I have pointed this out previously on this very thread. You can of course continue to ignore this truth or you can pray about it with an open and believing mind and perhaps your own "record of heaven" may whisper the truth of it to you. Try the experiment and good luck

I have also visualized something along this theme. I have surmised that the spirit body or spirit brain is some kind of infinite and unlimited recorder or memory storage device, like a hard drive. There are some files, folders, or memories that have been locked and require a password to get into.

Of course, the Holy Ghost being a spirit personage would have all of the same capabilities, but NONE of His files, folders, or memories have been blocked or locked, and He has access to them all, including our own.

I have also visualized that God the Father is wirelessly jacked into the Matrix or is the Architect of the Matrix, and thus He has access to all things simultaneously.

So far, the Holy Ghost has never let me know which of the many theories are right, or if they are all wrong. The Gods do it however they do it. For now, it suffices to know that it is so.

The Holy Ghost can whisper into your mind and heart the words of Christ. If you have done a book report on "all" the words of Jesus Christ that he has said to do, and the ways he has said to be like, and the things he has said to know;

And you have read over and over his words until they are imprinted upon your mind and heart, recall can happen in an instant suddenly of all his words to you and this Holy Ghost of his words can guide you through this life, and no man can take this knowledge from you.

All your money and even your life they may take but this knowledge you can take with you, which will be of the greatest value to you in this life, and the life to come.

This is what God himself desires of you more than burnt offerings is the knowledge of his words given through Jesus Christ.

Come to know all his words and they will guide you as an iron rod to the tree of life and beyond:)

You will come to see what he has called you to do and what you have been elected for and be able to be sure what you should do to retire in the celestial kingdom to go no more out.

boo wrote:FFA That is easy and has been explained before .Let him who has ears hear. Each of us is our own Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the divine, eternal ,personage of spirit or " record of heaven" which dwells within us and whose whisperings we must learn to discern if we are to find our way back to the Father. Paul was not just speaking metaphorically when he said "know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost WHO IS IN YOU"" I Corth 6:19. I have pointed this out previously on this very thread. You can of course continue to ignore this truth or you can pray about it with an open and believing mind and perhaps your own "record of heaven" may whisper the truth of it to you. Try the experiment and good luck

Yes and this post I am responding to is a great lesson in humility.
Why is it that so many people on this forum have to use innuendos, put downs and mentality attacks, and insinuations merely to put a point across, especially when THEIR truth may not be complete truth at all? That which we explain, even my own words, are what we believe is truth. I suppose those that just have to resort to these tactics don't know any better.
Things like:
1 If you had have a brain
2 if you have ears to hear
3 if you have eyes to see
4 you're an idiot
5 those who believe this way are idiots, or another derivative
6 if you can't see it you're mighty dumb, or another derivative
7 only a dummy would believe this, or another derivative
etc.

Thanks for confirming these truths I see on this forum. Makes for wonderful conversation, wouldn't you agree?

FFA I am not sure but I may owe you an apology if you found my words offensive. I have reflected on what I said and in retrospect could have done a better job at expressing my frustration in responding to your questions. My weakness is that this is the 3rd time I have responded to a direct question from you on this thread in 2 days and each time my proffered response is either ignored or ridiculed. I suppose I should have dealt with my frustrations in a different manner. I will say it directly instead of indirectly. You are a remarkably difficult guy to communicate with and give me the strong impression that you have no interest in a dialogue with those whose views may differ from yours. You are certainly entitled to act in that fashion but it seems to me poor form to do so and then complain when some fallible guy like me responds in the same way I perceive you do . However I should not have acted that way I suppose and apologize for doing so.

freedomforall wrote:

rproe67 wrote:This is WAY TOO LONG and has been made complicated beyond belief! :ymsick: Then buy a slow watch, you can get more done that way. As for being too long, take it up with Marion G Romney. I am not the author of the message, only the messenger of it. Besides, take note of how many long posts are posted. One would think books are in the works. :ymsigh:

If I try to prove something using everyone else's words even a former "prophet", how can that be convincing?! I'm patiently learning that if I want to know truth, it has to come directly from God...to "my" spirit! O:-)

Just reads the larger font and discover that I know what I'm talking about. The Holy Ghost has the power to be everywhere. Let's pose the question like this:
If the personage of Spirit known as the HG cannot be everywhere at the same time, then how is it that people all over the globe can feel his influence or get guidance from him, all simultaneously?

I'll just say that I respectfully disagree with you in regard to who the Holy Ghost is and how it operates in each of our lives and that's okay to believe differently!

I'm not on a desktop computer or laptop so scrolling through the posts of quotes in both large and small fonts on a phone can make one dizzy and feel sick. Yes not your problem, next time I'll try to skip past your posts! :p

boo wrote:FFA I am not sure but I may owe you an apology if you found my words offensive. I have reflected on what I said and in retrospect could have done a better job at expressing my frustration in responding to your questions. My weakness is that this is the 3rd time I have responded to a direct question from you on this thread in 2 days and each time my proffered response is either ignored or ridiculed. I suppose I should have dealt with my frustrations in a different manner. I will say it directly instead of indirectly. You are a remarkably difficult guy to communicate with and give me the strong impression that you have no interest in a dialogue with those whose views may differ from yours. You are certainly entitled to act in that fashion but it seems to me poor form to do so and then complain when some fallible guy like me responds in the same way I perceive you do . However I should not have acted that way I suppose and apologize for doing so.

I just plain do not agree with some of the philosophy posted here, and nothing, nothing, says I have to. And to my knowledge...this is a two way street, right? I may not know all there is about the HG, but no one knows how the influence of the HG can be felt at the same time within a lot of people. So I stand with the view that the HG can be everywhere, by an unknown means, in helping people as needed. I never did say his person can be everywhere, however, his influence still emanates from him, everywhere. Some people are just not happy unless they can split hairs.

By the way, some of them and others like them; the phrases I posted are phrases that some people on this forum have directed at me. I think there are some folks that ask themselves this question: if this were a real LDS Freedom forum, would this crap be used at all or become necessary in making points, in order to get the listener to cower and accept false teachings, just to keep peace?

Your reluctant apology is accepted.

The only way anyone can truly know who I am, or what I think and believe are those that:

rproe67 wrote:

freedomforall wrote:

rproe67 wrote:This is WAY TOO LONG and has been made complicated beyond belief! :ymsick: Then buy a slow watch, you can get more done that way. As for being too long, take it up with Marion G Romney. I am not the author of the message, only the messenger of it. Besides, take note of how many long posts are posted. One would think books are in the works. :ymsigh:

If I try to prove something using everyone else's words even a former "prophet", how can that be convincing?! I'm patiently learning that if I want to know truth, it has to come directly from God...to "my" spirit! O:-)

Just reads the larger font and discover that I know what I'm talking about. The Holy Ghost has the power to be everywhere. Let's pose the question like this:
If the personage of Spirit known as the HG cannot be everywhere at the same time, then how is it that people all over the globe can feel his influence or get guidance from him, all simultaneously?

I'll just say that I respectfully disagree with you in regard to who the Holy Ghost is and how it operates in each of our lives and that's okay to believe differently!

I'm not on a desktop computer or laptop so scrolling through the posts of quotes in both large and small fonts on a phone can make one dizzy and feel sick. Yes not your problem, next time I'll try to skip past your posts! :p

I could care less, there are lurkers who just might take them as important. So you see whether you or anyone else on this forum reads them, it's no big deal, okay?
BTW, how is it that the other long posts on the forum are welcomed? Do I sense bias here? Or is it a clique? Oh well, many people do not read the scriptures either, because they're TOO LONG. :-\ :-\

And the reason people disagree with me is because they don't want to read that which teaches them the operations of the HG or many other topics as well. Their opinion is all that matters, right?

FFA, you are the only one getting upset here; others are simply trying to teach and share. This is also taught to us in the temple. If you are open to learning, it is an amazing and awesome truth - that your own spirit is the Holy Ghost in communication with God. It is not something to fear or that should make you angry when someone suggests it. IMO, it's AWESOME that God communicates with us so personally and individually. I understand your reluctance to accept it - I wouldn't for a long time after I learned it too (though I didn't allow it to make me angry). But once I was willing to be taught, I learned this and had amazing and powerful witnesses of the truthfulness of it. Then BECAUSE I had allowed myself to become teachable, God taught me even more amazing things as He communicated directly with ME as he does with all of us!

On that note, please be mindful of the forum rules and especially the #1 rule - Be Nice.