The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure

[ATL Wake]

From my growing perspective, it really boils down to a very simple question, and a very simple quest -- what thing(s) do I lack to receive a promise from God himself of exaltation and eternal life? The problem is that many of us may be very concerned about asking that question, because like the rich young man, we may not like the answer(s) we get. We may decide we need/want to beat our head against a brick wall for a while longer before we're ready to submit and simply do what the Lord asks of us -- individually.

So true.

[buffalo_girl]

You all, go right on ahead!

I'll be happy to spend eternity continuing to 'sharecrop' for the Lord.

[mchlwise]

The point being that the idea of there being a 'fastest way' to C&EMS certainly appeals to our current instant gratification culture, but it is something that takes a fair amount of work and spiritual maturity. I do certainly agree that it's a most worthwhile thing to ask for, but if we expect it at that moment we ask or shortly afterward, in many cases we will be disappointed. While it may have happened to a few, it does a disservice to most to think that will always be the case. I suspect in some cases it was the promise of such, not the actual fulfillment.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. :ymapplause:

[reese]

I do certainly agree that it's a most worthwhile thing to ask for, but if we expect it at that moment we ask or shortly afterward, in many cases we will be disappointed. While it may have happened to a few, it does a disservice to most to think that will always be the case. I suspect in some cases it was the promise of such, not the actual fulfillment.

What is the difference gruden? I thought that C&E is suppose to be the promise of salvation, and the actual fulfillment would be when you are dead and enter into your salvation.

[chase]

I had an interesting discussion on the toopic of praying about ones c&e status, ... However, I think that a Sacrament talk advocating this approach could result in a spiritual Pandora's box being opened. Why? Because so many are still in need of milk, and something like this could make them an easy prey for the adversary. Just my opinion.

Good points.

All references to milk vs. meat in the scriptures refer the milk to those who do not have the spirit and the meat to those who do.

I think if the Spirit moves you to bear your testimony as such during sacrament meeting, it's fine. The early saints were barely taking milk when Joseph Smith was sharing meat in large quantities. Did Moses not say something to the effect, "I would that all men were prophets?" I have borne my testimony in sacrament meeting that every member can receive the Second Comforter in this life. Those who are still sipping on milk will continue to enjoy milk and may be moved upon to begin taking meat, while those feasting upon meat will savor more meat. This is a good discussion thread and one which may well have been overdue. More and more members seem to desire greater blessings and it seems like more are willing to sacrifice for them. In the "Approaching the Heavenly Gift" forum, some of us are sharing our journey and insight. I love that there is no contention there and everyone supports one another.

Coach, I agree that if the Spirit moves someone to testify of such an experience in public then they are right to do so. On the other hand, we are not the early saints. Those members were drawn to the church by the prospect of Joseph's fairly radical experiences. We are much more sensitive than were these early saints who were attracted to the church by the very idea that man could once again open the heavens. In large part, members who join the church today are not attracted by this important doctrine. I don't think we can make an accurate comparison between early day saints and modern day saints. That is not to say that I don't dearly wish that we taught this doctrine with more regularity so that it would be familiar to all. I think it would be great if we could charitably discuss these things over every pulpit without having to worry about offending people. Good points coach.

[Gideon]

I have been thinking deeply on these three questions, and I still don't feel like it is the right approach for everyone. However, I have come up with a modified version that I think could be used, even with those who are new to the gospel, much newer than those on this forum anyway.

The one change I would make is to replace the first two questions with this one: Has the Lord told me directly that my calling and election is made sure? If no, go to question three:

3. Who do I need to “become” to be worthy of the promise? – Wait for a response…

The great value I see in question three is that it gets one to take action. Theory doesn't save anyone. Doctrinal classifications such as milk vs. meat produce no results, except maybe a little pride. Only action matters.

Is taking the Sacrament milk or meat? A better question might be, What results come from taking action on Sacrament covenants? Try this with the priesthood and temple covenants. But I digress.

[braingrunt]

I feel like the line-upon-line precept really must be preeminent; and to an extent I think we should all guard ourselves against the too-rapid renovation of our minds, and do not hope for it in other people either. I think most of us here have a strong desire that people would "wake up fast", and I think this whole paradigm is a danger to us. I've recently compared the mind to a house, where ideas and testimonies are arranged like furniture; we've been working at it a long time, trying to arrange things in a way which makes sense to us. And it's a fact that too many people have been decorating their minds with worldly ideas for so long, even across multiple generations, which is frightening to behold.
Yet what would be accomplished if you could cram their minds with the true gospel faster than they voluntarily throw out old furniture? A house of disorder and confusion, leading them to wish (and their wish will probably eventually be granted) that things could go back to the way they were. But someone moving the right direction, line upon line, letting each step become a cherished part of themselves is more secure from discouragement and from making grievous misjudgements against their current light and knowledge.
Also comes to mind, Jacob 5:

Who is it that has corrupted my vineyard?

48 And it came to pass that the servant said unto his master: Is it not the loftiness of thy vineyard—have not the branches thereof overcome the roots which are good? And because the branches have overcome the roots thereof, behold they grew faster than the strength of the roots, taking strength unto themselves. Behold, I say, is not this the cause that the trees of thy vineyard have become corrupted?

Perhaps I'm misusing this scripture but I take it as a warning to let the gospel nourish me naturally. If my mind is exploring ideas and I feel those ideas growing in ways which I'm not sure how to connect back to the roots of my testimony, I feel it's time for me to let them alone. I want to make sure I'm growing, for sure; I don't want to let myself get complacent. But if I understand this scripture right, I know that the way for me to grow good fruit is to be cautious how I grow.

What does all this have to do with C&E? I'm not sure but make sure you take the right path. Watch your step carefully. If you can see the way is clear, and you are able to run, by all means, run as fast as the Lord gives you strength. But if not just take each step carefully.

That said, I think amonhi's steps are not inherently dangerous. We should always try to press forward and I think if entered with great humility, totally willing to work with question 3 as long as the Lord sees fit, this may not be a bad way to press forward. But don't mistake your arrival at C&E due to a confused and disorganized (but perhaps rapidly growing) mind.

[tmac]

It is true that "by their fruits (actions) ye shall know them," and that greater spiritual maturity should be accompanied by corresponding actions. It is also true that individually and as a people we have had great difficulty and challenges abiding by the lower laws, principles and ordinances, let alone attempting to seek greater spiritual blessings, with the accompanying actions that are required. But these are questions that I think the Lord would like to hear us all sincerely ask: "What do I lack?" and "What do I need to do to merit a personal promise of exaltation and eternal life?" As I have suggested before, I think asking those kinds of questions and then acting upon the answers we get are the epitome of "seeking the Kingdom of Heaven." When that becomes our life's quest, and more important than anything else in the world, things will happen. But it's true, there is also great risk. There is always a corresponding ratio between risk and reward. If we are not willing to take that risk, then we are essentially limiting the reward(s) that we are willing to receive.

[buffalo_girl]

Also comes to mind, Jacob 5:

Who is it that has corrupted my vineyard?

48 And it came to pass that the servant said unto his master: Is it not the loftiness of thy vineyard—have not the branches thereof overcome the roots which are good? And because the branches have overcome the roots thereof, behold they grew faster than the strength of the roots, taking strength unto themselves. Behold, I say, is not this the cause that the trees of thy vineyard have become corrupted?

Perhaps I'm misusing this scripture but I take it as a warning to let the gospel nourish me naturally. If my mind is exploring ideas and I feel those ideas growing in ways which I'm not sure how to connect back to the roots of my testimony, I feel it's time for me to let them alone. I want to make sure I'm growing, for sure; I don't want to let myself get complacent. But if I understand this scripture right, I know that the way for me to grow good fruit is to be cautious how I grow.

Have to agree with your conclusion.

In studying Mosiah 7-11 for our next Gospel Doctrine lesson, I'm struck by the contrast between the steady willingness of the People of Zarahemla to be admonished by their spiritual leaders, to receive and maintain covenants, to work together to maintain peace and security in their land
- and those who left Zarahemla to reclaim the Land of Lehi-Nephi as their rightful 'inheritance'.

Those who left Zarahemla weren't ALL bad; they knew God's LAW and called upon HIm when they were in trouble. God even blessed their efforts to a point. God also allowed their 'over-zealousness' to entrap them in a snare from which they could not extricate themselves.

For those of us who lived to be eight years old, Salvation depends on how well we know our Savior, apply HIs Atonement to our lives on a daily basis, and how well we 'DO the works which we have seen Christ DO' (3Nephi 27:21-22).

No small task to be accomplished by those of us who 'know God's LAW', but are still fuzzy on the DO part.

[Amonhi]

Great post tmac!

I've been lurking on this thread all week. I have to say I am impressed with your message Amonhi, and with the way you present it, and with the way you handle objections. It seem to me that you are indeed love. A good example for me to be sure, as many on this forum will attest. I'm sure I have a long way to go, but let's just say you have given me renewed hope -- for me and my family.

Thank you so much for this wonderful complement! You melt my heart and made my soul smile! I am sincerely honored to be here among so many honest and sincere seekers. I truly have been overwhelmed with the wonderful questions, responses, PM's and appreciation. And, although it may not appear as such, I have learned a lot as well. The group input is incredible!

Thank you ithink, (that sounds funny...)

As always, it is always my pleasure to serve.

[Amonhi]

Alma 30...

There are so many great points in those scriptures which you quoted. However, I understand that you have specific concerns, questions and thoughts. If you could perhaps make dots points of the ones you wish to focus on, then we can discuss each point in a useful and effective way.

[Amonhi]

I have been thinking deeply on these three questions, and I still don't feel like it is the right approach for everyone. However, I have come up with a modified version that I think could be used, even with those who are new to the gospel, much newer than those on this forum anyway.

The one change I would make is to replace the first two questions with this one: Has the Lord told me directly that my calling and election is made sure? If no, go to question three:

3. Who do I need to “become” to be worthy of the promise? – Wait for a response…

The great value I see in question three is that it gets one to take action. Theory doesn't save anyone.

Excellent points! And, as I said earlier, the questions I provided are only a guideline. Change them to meet your needs, as you have. Also, it is not the "words of our mouth" which God is listening to, it is the sincerity and intent of our hearts. Words are helpful physical expressions or symbols of our spiritual intent and sincerity of our hearts, but they are at best limited expressions of what is really happening inside of us. Thank you for this post.

[Amonhi]

What does all this have to do with C&E? I'm not sure but make sure you take the right path. Watch your step carefully. If you can see the way is clear, and you are able to run, by all means, run as fast as the Lord gives you strength. But if not just take each step carefully.

That said, I think amonhi's steps are not inherently dangerous. We should always try to press forward and I think if entered with great humility, totally willing to work with question 3 as long as the Lord sees fit, this may not be a bad way to press forward. But don't mistake your arrival at C&E due to a confused and disorganized (but perhaps rapidly growing) mind.

Thank you, good comments. A lot of wisdom in there.

[Amonhi]

But these are questions that I think the Lord would like to hear us all sincerely ask: "What do I lack?" and "What do I need to do to merit a personal promise of exaltation and eternal life?" As I have suggested before, I think asking those kinds of questions and then acting upon the answers we get are the epitome of "seeking the Kingdom of Heaven."

I agree. I trust that if you are working with the Lord on question 3, he will lead you in a way that is "Tailor Made" for where you are, who you are, and how fast you can move to get to where you need to go. Let Him guide you, rather than attempting other more foolish progression options.

[suspense]

I would like to thank everyone for who has contributed to this thread, when I first read Amonhi's original post I dismissed it knowing that I wasn't ready to receive it. And thinking that I knew what I needed to work on before I would even think about starting to consider taking these steps. Pride and stubbornness have been in control of me most of my life, and it has been the hardest thing to overcome, and I hope I will be able to sometime. I haven't even bothered asking to join the Approaching the heavenly gift forum because I know I am not nowhere near ready for that yet.

I know there is wisdom in this discussion and I have come to the realization this morning that perhaps the things that I think are my greatest short comings that might be keeping me from receiving this gift, might not be what really is and humbly doing question 3 is the only way of knowing what the Lord really needs me to change. Swallowing my pride and being willing to accept the Lords judgments on my character will definitely be a challenge for me. Hopefully I am ready for it, I regret to say that in the past I did try this and was not humble enough to receive the counsel he provided.

[A Random Phrase]

I also appreciate the fact that you don't seem to be defensive about any of this.

Ditto.

[scootd28]

Amonhi,

I'm still digesting this, with my wife. I have to make sure you're telling the truth, and I know how to find that out - so not to worry. I know you respect that. However, I want to tell you that your statement.....
"Before you can come to my heaven, you must "become" nice. You have to learn how to play well with the other residents of heaven. I have to make sure I am still in heaven after You come in. And I have to make sure that YOU are still in heaven after I come in."
......is incredible. So simple, yet so profound and, for me, life-altering. By extension, I believe I must do all I can to help create a celestial environment here on earth with everyone I come in contact with. I must be an example of a celestial being, and seek to make sure that all interactions take place on a celestial level. Thank you!

[Original_Intent]

Amonhi,

Unlike some, I don't worry too much over the details of whether your story is true or not. It does not matter to me. That is between you and the Lord. And I also felt that you submitted your experience with great humility, it was not to boast. I have felt very comfortable with everything that you have had to say. I have also been reading "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence". Between that and what you have raised on this thread and the other one, I feel a change happening to me. It isn't complete, but it is happening.

Where before I might have struggled with a temptation, I now don't even allow the temptation into my head. My honest feeling is "Why would I even want to CONTEMPLATE whether or not to do ______?" It's not 100% yet, but I find that is much more the case in the past week or so.

I also feel that the adversary is working extra hard. I had a nasty encounter last night as I was trying to get to sleep. I also have found myself "easily provoked" with my wife and kids - which is not my nature. So I have had to watch my temper and realize that the adversary is working overtime to keep me from progressing any way that he can.

I do feel that I am a long ways from being ready to even ask the questions. BUT, I do feel closer, my prayers are much more sincere and heartfelt (and both ways communication), and I like the guy in the mirror more. I feel my priesthood power expanding. For your role in this Amonhi, I thank you.

[patriotsaint]

I appreciate this thread. I know that I am prideful, contentious and have a lot of work to do, but I too have the hope that, if I persevere, these blessings are not out of my reach.

[ATL Wake]

Amonhi,
Between that and what you have raised on this thread and the other one, I feel a change happening to me. It isn't complete, but it is happening.

Where before I might have struggled with a temptation, I now don't even allow the temptation into my head. My honest feeling is "Why would I even want to CONTEMPLATE whether or not to do ______?" It's not 100% yet, but I find that is much more the case in the past week or so.

So happy to hear this. I feel like I hear this more and more. It seems like something is happening.

[Amonhi]

I appreciate this thread. ... I too have the hope that, if I persevere, these blessings are not out of my reach.

This is my main message! Thank you for stating this.

Also, so many of you have expressed appreciation for my time, thoughts and presentation. (I read all the posts and greatly appreciated them.) I am happy to be in your service. This is why I share, it is what makes any illusion of personal damage I might receive worth it.

On a side note, I am presently running out of time here, so I will not be able to stay much longer. I am sure I will be back when I can... When I have more time.

But I want to reiterate that you don't need me. I am only another symbol pointing my finger to heaven. You have everything you need already. And you have a great forum with many on the same path you are on. I recommend starting a thread in the Heavenly Group area where you can openly discuss your experiences and offer encouragement to each other, (if it isn't already created). I know via PM that some here have already received the promise for themselves. This is a new beginning. Everything becomes new. Read the scriptures from this new point of view and you will see insights that only apply to you. Stay close to the spirit and it will bring you to Christ and Christ will bring you to the Father.

For those of you who requested the Elliaison books I recommended, I will PM you when I get more information back. If you haven't requested them and would like to, Send me a PM.

[A Random Phrase]

But I want to reiterate that you don't need me. I am only another symbol pointing my finger to heaven. You have everything you need already.

Very true. And the message of true prophets never includes aggrandizing themselves, seeking a following, etc. I'm not calling you a prophet; I'm saying that you fit the pattern if you are not looking for a following, and if you are pointing to Christ and giving the message of repentance. Even though some of what you have said concerns me, I appreciate your efforts to teach what you have found to be important.

[gr8ideas]

Ehat & Cook, Words, 27 June 1839 Note, p.18
7.& As Joseph Smith here defines it, making one's calling and election sure is the crowning achievement of a life of righteous devotion. However, the Prophet apparently senses that if this concept is too commonly taught it could easily generate within the Church a misguided devotion to a principle that could divert the Saints' energy from the equally important principle of selfless devotion to others. Seeking blessings for oneself only is contrary to the principle that "He that loseth his life for my sake shall find it" (Matthew 10:39).

[AshleyB]

.

[Original_Intent]

I can sooo relate thebestsun,

I don't think the struggles go away after, and I certainly thing the struggle becomes more intense the harder you are trying.

I have found "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence" very helpful, although I am only partially into chapter two and it feels like a book that it might take me weeks to complete. But what I have read so far has been helpful and I think addresses a lot of the frustration you mention. I wish I could summarize for you and be a bit more helpful, but I can't.