Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 8:42 pm
This is the wisest sentence in this thread thus far. Including the typo.Original_Intent wrote:And of course, it is jsut an internet forum and perhaps I should lighten up.
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Yoda was right.
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Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 9:11 pm
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 9:15 pm
Funny you would bring that up. I was discussing that very thing with our bishop Sunday and we both agree. I've seen the decline in our ward over the past year. It's getting bad and will get worse. It has gotten so bad that we simply don't have enough active people in our ward to fill callings. We will be streamlining and combining things to make it work but if it continues, I wouldn't be surprised to see our ward combined with another.Original_Intent wrote:I believe that the sifting has begun. I believe that the time for sitting on the fence is drawing to an end and that things are rapidly coming to a point of choosing sides. I have seen indications of this on the forums, and I have also seen it in various events going on throughout the world.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 9:36 pm
OI, I think where we need to be more concerned is about how righteous people are in their personal life. I love the constitution, but many people in this world live without it. It is when people become wicked that we need to be concerned. I believe there are many more important decisions that people will make that will be judge much more than who they voted for and if they were fooled by a politician. Look at how many more people fall into sin because they are fooled by satan.
But above others, we need to be most concerned with our own righteousness. Whether or not we are in sin. If we are in sin it is best if we change it instead of being so concerned about others. I feel the reason the brethren are focused on the things they are is because they know where the real battle is and it isn't at the ballot box. The real battle is within our own hearts and whether or not we are going to choose Christ once again here on earth. It is Satan who is trying to sew all the anger in the political arena. I have strong political beliefs, but am no longer willing to argue with people because I had the realization just how much Satan is attacking people in this area. He wants us angry and upset. He wants us to see the unfairness and dishonest and be angry about it. Instead of making sure we are honest in our own lives. Christ does not want us angry and upset with others. If we are angry and upset we cannot serve others. We are not being Christ like. (Please don't bring up the money changers. That was not political. That was desecrating the Temple.) The only way to help people is to give them the gospel, help people live it better, and/or love people so they can find Christ. I have found that as the arguing has gone up, Gospel discussion has gone down. There was a lovely post about what Elder Ballard said at BYUI that was turned into and anti-romney post. I would have preferred for the gospel discussion to have continued, but it couldn't because of bickering.
This world is getting uglier, but we must rise above it and choose Christ. Instead Satan is swaying us to become the ugliness and it makes me sad.
But above others, we need to be most concerned with our own righteousness. Whether or not we are in sin. If we are in sin it is best if we change it instead of being so concerned about others. I feel the reason the brethren are focused on the things they are is because they know where the real battle is and it isn't at the ballot box. The real battle is within our own hearts and whether or not we are going to choose Christ once again here on earth. It is Satan who is trying to sew all the anger in the political arena. I have strong political beliefs, but am no longer willing to argue with people because I had the realization just how much Satan is attacking people in this area. He wants us angry and upset. He wants us to see the unfairness and dishonest and be angry about it. Instead of making sure we are honest in our own lives. Christ does not want us angry and upset with others. If we are angry and upset we cannot serve others. We are not being Christ like. (Please don't bring up the money changers. That was not political. That was desecrating the Temple.) The only way to help people is to give them the gospel, help people live it better, and/or love people so they can find Christ. I have found that as the arguing has gone up, Gospel discussion has gone down. There was a lovely post about what Elder Ballard said at BYUI that was turned into and anti-romney post. I would have preferred for the gospel discussion to have continued, but it couldn't because of bickering.
This world is getting uglier, but we must rise above it and choose Christ. Instead Satan is swaying us to become the ugliness and it makes me sad.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 9:45 pm
OI, actually, I did not miss that point, please look at the sentence again.Original_Intent wrote:liberty_belle wrote:OI- I understood the intent of your post. We all have that one area, where it is a topic that sends shivers up your spine. A topic where we just can't wrap our heads around why someone could be so blind as not to see, so deaf as not to hear or so dumb as not to speak (at least logically).
One thing that I have learned over the many years of being an outspoken person on topics that have raised eyebrows, I have learned that you state your position as clearly as you can, with examples if possible and then leave the rest in the hands of the individual you are speaking to. This could take several discussions before it gets to this point, but eventually it does come.
As recently shown in another thread, no matter the information that is shared, there is always going to be an opposition to it. I think I have finally learned after being a witness to much sorrow and heartache and being in constant worry for the happiness and safety of others, that honoring agency is absolutely necessary to becoming a God. I have thought a lot about this very thing over the past few months and know that if I do not learn to bridle my desire to "save the world" and intervene where I must not, then I cannot fully become a Goddess because I will want to intervene with my children on earth and therefore deprive them of the experiences of failing and succeeding.
I think more than anything, I hope I am not misrepresenting you, is that your fear really comes from not only worrying about the individual, but how that individuals decisions will ulitmately effect your life???? That is what I am concernend about. When people support candidates that clearly will not protect my civil liberties, that effects me. When people take mind-altering drugs/meds and they do things in society such as school or workplace shootings, etc that effects me. When immorality is shown in every venue of society, that effects me. Yet, this is where God shows his greatest restraint in intervening. Uuuuggghhh, I have a lot yet to learn, but I wanted you to know that I completely understand where you are coming from.
For those who have posted that this is about OI being against Romney supporters, I did not take it that way. I took it that he was taking a hard look at where his anger and fear comes from and why. I think we could all take a hard look at ourselves in this way. I am definately going to take that example and do better at being more patient.
So much that you posted shows that you understand exactly where I was coming from, the only part that you missed completely was in your second to last paragraph. the fear is not based on the effect it will have on me, or even my family and others. No the truth is, the fear and the anger comes not from the opinions, it is that I know behind these user names is a person, a child of God, and I sincerely believe that some of the opinions I am seeing expressed bear eternal, damning consequences. And no, I am not talking about voting for Mitt Romney - however, some of the reasons I have seen for voting for Mitt Romney, or worse some of the ideas I have seen expressed regarding the proper role of government, for instance the case being made that government is established for the purpose of forcing people to be good (and Captain Moroni being held forth as an example of this.) such a belief if not repented of will bear eternal and negative consequences. People argue that the Constitution is only able to govern a righteous people (TRUE!) and then they take Satan's position from the War in Heaven. I consider myself a decently manly man, but it brings a lump to my throat and tears to my eyes, literally. And it is nothing so silly as "I am losing an argument on the internet." It reminds me much more of my mission experience, and having an investigator tell you that they know the gospel is the truth, but they will not be baptized because of _____. Do you think I care if some guy named Bob Henstra thinks he is vastly smarter and wiser than me? No! And in many regards he probably is. And I don't get angry with Bob, even though he likes to try to provoke me (in a friendly, jab kind of way i hope, because that is how I take it.) And I don;t have bad feelings for Bob for supporting Mitt Romney because I believe he has evaluated, used his agency, etc. And Bob is so far ahead of us in some things that I doubt erring on a presidential vote will be any big deal. Assuming he is wrong, knowing Bob he will listen while it is explained to him, admit his mistake, and move on.
So, the people that I get angry with it is not because they disagree with me, and it isn;t because of the consequences that I will have to live with because of their choices. That, sadly is part and parcel of the democracy we live in. And yes, I know it was established as a republic, but we have largely lost it and are suffering a democracy. I get angry when I see people who I ahve come to care about damning themselves. Even if they repent later, how many people will they have either convinced or caused to doubt correct principles?
And of course, it is jsut an internet forum and perhaps I should lighten up. But we discuss issues of eternal importance here. And recently I have been pained to see some of what people think, and have taken evil for good and good for evil. And I sincerely believe that this is the sifting. And it hurts.
I am sorry, I hoped that I made that clear that I KNOW your first concern comes for the individual behind the username as is mine.I think more than anything, I hope I am not misrepresenting you, is that your fear really comes from not only worrying about the individual, but how that individuals decisions will ulitmately effect your life???
When I was counselling people on meds that called me, I would explain in details about what was happening in their brains and bodies. I would explain how the meds worked and why the worst part of withdrawal happens around 4-6 months later. I would explain how to safely come off if they chose to and that there are people who can come off easily, but this is not the normal. So, we would always counsel people to take precaution because if it does happen to you, its a nightmare and very difficult to get leveled out, then you would have to wait at least 6 months after being leveled out before you start again. Explaining all of this was usually at least a two hour process, but by the time we were done they understood that they were responsible for their life, that they were to inform their doctors on what they were going to do and that they fully understood the consequences. No matter how much I warned people, more often than not, there were always those who thought they were the "exception" and did the exact opposite of what we taught them.
( When they were falling apart at the seems, they were calling me begging me or Dr Tracy to fix them...NOW! Well, I could not fix them NOW, it was a horrible thing to go through, but they had to do it. In the meanwhile, I became their lifeline whether I wanted to be or not (in fact I had a few who actually stocked me) and they were constantly calling trying to escape the consequences. I felt so bad for them and worried constantly, but their choice to not listen not only effected them, but it now effected my life. If things went horribly wrong, it would effect the lives of others, it was a huge burden.
After the deaths in 2005, all through 2006 I had to decide whether or not this was what God wanted me to continue to do. At the end of that year I got pregnant at age 39 and felt that I could not take on this kind of responsibility any longer. At this point God truly opened up my understanding that no matter how much you love your brethren and would do all things for them, there are those who just will not partake of what you have to offer. For those who do, you save them...you really become a type of Savior on Mount Zion and its worth all the effort, but I learned I could not beat myself up for not being able to save them all from their own selves. That is why I said, I offer up the information that I feel inspired to share and then let it in their own laps.
I still worry about those whom I know are on medications and having been trained, I can spot them easily....yes, even in anonymous websites like this. I guess that is why I don't get riled up as much anymore.
Thanks for all your wisdom and caring about our brothers and sisters.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 10:00 pm
Nan, I agree with so much that you posted.
I am not angry with anyone over support of Romney. What got me angry was people making the argument that the purpose of government is to force people to do right, and they used Captain Moroni and the kingmen as an example. That mindset is so much more serious about a vote, deceived by the candidate or otherwise. And if one or two people had taken the position, I would have felt bad for them. But there were a good many supporting that principle, many of them I never would have guessed would have taken a position. That isn't fringe, that is in direct opposition to what we have repeatedly been told is central to the entire plan of Salvation. It was the question that 1/3 of God's spirit children BLEW IT on, and I never would have guessed such a position would have gotten the amount of support on this forum that it has. And again, not just from some of the crackpots that don't shy away from spouting nonsense - some of this is from posters that I thought I knew their hearts.
That's the killer. And it makes me realize, when the sifting happens, those 5 unwise virgins are not jsut going to be nameless LDS people "out there" in the world. It's going to be gamily members. It may be you. It may be me. It's going to be neighbors. It's going to be people who were SURE they were doing the right thing. (Again, looking at the man in the mirror.)
It makes me rejoice to see those that get it (or at least that I think get it, because I agree with them) but, there is a division happening. This is not like anything I have seen on the forum before. And it's happening in wards, cities, stakes, states - nations.
The Lord said that on His house it would begin, and I always thought it would be a plague of some kind. Now I wonder if it isn't the sifting, and brother being against brother because of disagreements. Things are getting tougher and I think everyone realizes it is going to get worse before it gets better. Tempers are getting shorter. All is not well in Zion.
I am not angry with anyone over support of Romney. What got me angry was people making the argument that the purpose of government is to force people to do right, and they used Captain Moroni and the kingmen as an example. That mindset is so much more serious about a vote, deceived by the candidate or otherwise. And if one or two people had taken the position, I would have felt bad for them. But there were a good many supporting that principle, many of them I never would have guessed would have taken a position. That isn't fringe, that is in direct opposition to what we have repeatedly been told is central to the entire plan of Salvation. It was the question that 1/3 of God's spirit children BLEW IT on, and I never would have guessed such a position would have gotten the amount of support on this forum that it has. And again, not just from some of the crackpots that don't shy away from spouting nonsense - some of this is from posters that I thought I knew their hearts.
That's the killer. And it makes me realize, when the sifting happens, those 5 unwise virgins are not jsut going to be nameless LDS people "out there" in the world. It's going to be gamily members. It may be you. It may be me. It's going to be neighbors. It's going to be people who were SURE they were doing the right thing. (Again, looking at the man in the mirror.)
It makes me rejoice to see those that get it (or at least that I think get it, because I agree with them) but, there is a division happening. This is not like anything I have seen on the forum before. And it's happening in wards, cities, stakes, states - nations.
The Lord said that on His house it would begin, and I always thought it would be a plague of some kind. Now I wonder if it isn't the sifting, and brother being against brother because of disagreements. Things are getting tougher and I think everyone realizes it is going to get worse before it gets better. Tempers are getting shorter. All is not well in Zion.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 10:17 pm
OI, to tell you the truth, I have the same concerns about you and a few of your opinions on this subject. I am truly concerned for those who don't understand the proper role of government and churches, for leaders have a grave responsibility and accountability on their heads for the welfare of the people.Original_Intent wrote: or worse some of the ideas I have seen expressed regarding the proper role of government, for instance the case being made that government is established for the purpose of forcing people to be good (and Captain Moroni being held forth as an example of this.) such a belief if not repented of will bear eternal and negative consequences. People argue that the Constitution is only able to govern a righteous people (TRUE!) and then they take Satan's position from the War in Heaven. I consider myself a decently manly man, but it brings a lump to my throat and tears to my eyes, literally.
But I know that's the nature of this life, everyone is sure they are right and the other person is wrong and on Satan's side.
The really sad part is that most people won't know if they are wrong until it's everlastingly too late.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 10:27 pm
Bud, it's never "everlastingly to late" there'll always be repentance and forgiveness, always!awake wrote: But I know that's the nature of this life, everyone is sure they are right and the other person is wrong and on Satan's side.
The really sad part is that most people won't know if they are wrong until it's everlastingly too late.
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 10:35 pm
Legion excellent definition. This is what I am concerned about with RP?
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 10:44 pm
I feel anger arrives from unfullfilled expectations. So we need not have expectations as to others opinions. It is what it is, an opinion. So why do we get bent out of shape over an opinion. Bob brings a valid point. We need to just educate ourselves and not worry about others views. They will change their views for the better through the spirit as we all do. Emotions like anger are just a tool of the devil and his angels. The Lord is in control and even satan has to operate within the bounds that God has set.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 10:50 pm
Communication is a difficult thing. Sometimes we can misinterpet what people are intending to say. I see it happen a lot here. That can add a lot to the contention. I feel strongly about the way things are going in the world, as I am sure we all do. When feelings are strong, manners can go out the window.
Part of this is the anonymous nature of the forum. Legion has pointed out, he can speak more frankly on the forum, then he can face to face. This is good and bad but I think more good. People can hear things here, there not going to get anywhere else, for fear of offense. Some of things just plain need to be said, but if you get up in testimony meeting and say them, you will be ostracized.
What bothers me the most is people who don't want to be bothered with politics. They don't understand it's a war. A war with Satan and they don't want to be bothered. They will not understand it's a war, until they have lost everything they cherish. They say all is well and if something were wrong, the prophet would tell us. Of course the prophet has told us. Just been a little while.
I can understand why OI is upset but all you can do is say your piece. I'm sure Samuel the Laminate was upset people wouldn't listen to him.
Part of this is the anonymous nature of the forum. Legion has pointed out, he can speak more frankly on the forum, then he can face to face. This is good and bad but I think more good. People can hear things here, there not going to get anywhere else, for fear of offense. Some of things just plain need to be said, but if you get up in testimony meeting and say them, you will be ostracized.
What bothers me the most is people who don't want to be bothered with politics. They don't understand it's a war. A war with Satan and they don't want to be bothered. They will not understand it's a war, until they have lost everything they cherish. They say all is well and if something were wrong, the prophet would tell us. Of course the prophet has told us. Just been a little while.
I can understand why OI is upset but all you can do is say your piece. I'm sure Samuel the Laminate was upset people wouldn't listen to him.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 23rd, 2012, 11:20 pm
Yes, there will always be opportunity to repent in Spirit Prison and atone for our sins and for being deceived to support evil, but those who wait that long to repent, will have missed their opportunity to become worthy of the blessings like Exaltation, eternal marriage and the Celestial Kingdom, like they would have gained if they had repented while still here on earth.bobhenstra wrote:Bud, it's never "everlastingly to late" there'll always be repentance and forgiveness, always!awake wrote: But I know that's the nature of this life, everyone is sure they are right and the other person is wrong and on Satan's side.
The really sad part is that most people won't know if they are wrong until it's everlastingly too late.
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 10:05 am
Long as I can quote you! :-Bbobhenstra wrote:Outstanding definition of Libertarianism: Discussions on liberty while the strippers circulate among the audience!Legion wrote:Maybe its the philosophy that freedom and liberty are possible without God? Isn't that basically the summary on libertarianism? Mostly correct principles? Discussions on liberty while the strippers circulate among the audience?
Principles appealing to the natural man? Twisted to be all focusing on agency all while ignoring the Creator and one who bestowed us with that agency?
May I quote you???
Bobby
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 10:30 am
I suggest an in depth study of repentance and forgiveness, you have it wrong! Start with D&C 138: 57-60. Pay strict attention to verse 58 and understand why we do Temple work for the dead, we baptize for the dead, we do initiatory, we do the endowment, we marry them for time and eternity, all accomplished for the dead in the temple.awake wrote:Yes, there will always be opportunity to repent in Spirit Prison and atone for our sins and for being deceived to support evil, but those who wait that long to repent, will have missed their opportunity to become worthy of the blessings like Exaltation, eternal marriage and the Celestial Kingdom, like they would have gained if they had repented while still here on earth.bobhenstra wrote:Bud, it's never "everlastingly to late" there'll always be repentance and forgiveness, always!awake wrote: But I know that's the nature of this life, everyone is sure they are right and the other person is wrong and on Satan's side.
The really sad part is that most people won't know if they are wrong until it's everlastingly too late.
Bob
For what other reason would we do temple work for them if we know they won't repent and be cleansed of their sins? We like wasting time?
I suggest further study Awake.
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 10:31 am
Deal!Legion wrote:bobhenstra wrote:Outstanding definition of Libertarianism: Discussions on liberty while the strippers circulate among the audience!Legion wrote:Maybe its the philosophy that freedom and liberty are possible without God? Isn't that basically the summary on libertarianism? Mostly correct principles? Discussions on liberty while the strippers circulate among the audience?
Principles appealing to the natural man? Twisted to be all focusing on agency all while ignoring the Creator and one who bestowed us with that agency?
May I quote you???
Bobby
Long as I can quote you! :-B
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 10:43 am
bobhenstra wrote: I suggest an in depth study of repentance and forgiveness, you have it wrong! Start with D&C 138: 57-60. Pay strict attention to verse 58 and understand why we do Temple work for the dead, we baptize for the dead, we do initiatory, we do the endowment, we marry them for time and eternity, all accomplished for the dead in the temple.
For what other reason would we do temple work for them if we know they won't repent and be cleansed of their sins? We like wasting time?
I suggest further study Awake.
Bob
I have done in depth study of repentance and I know everyone will eventually repent and be totally cleansed of their sins, in this life or the next.
But that doesn't mean that they will merit the Celestial Kingdom or the blessings of the temple, even if their temple work has been done for them.
For they must have lived a good enough life on earth, insomuch that 'if' they had heard about the Gospel on earth, they would have accepted it and lived it valiantly. Then they will be able to take advantage of the temple work done for them. And only God knows if a person would have accepted the Gospel and been valiant in it.
But if people lived wicked lives on earth, even against the limited light they had, then it is said they will not be worthy of those higher blessings.
Just because temple work is done for someone doesn't guarantee them the blessings. They must have lived worthy of those blessings on earth. We are all judged by our deeds done while on earth.
Even LDS who have had temple ordinances done while living, still aren't guaranteed they will have those blessings, they too must prove worthy of them here on earth.
After we die, our time of proving ourselves is over, and if we weren't valiant with the light we had, then we can't ever earn those eternal blessings in the next life.
Surely you don't believe that everyone can be wicked on earth and then have a relative do their temple work after they die, and they can then achieve Exaltation in the next life.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 10:43 am
Nan wrote:OI, I think where we need to be more concerned is about how righteous people are in their personal life. I love the constitution, but many people in this world live without it. It is when people become wicked that we need to be concerned. I believe there are many more important decisions that people will make that will be judge much more than who they voted for and if they were fooled by a politician. Look at how many more people fall into sin because they are fooled by satan.
But above others, we need to be most concerned with our own righteousness. Whether or not we are in sin. If we are in sin it is best if we change it instead of being so concerned about others. I feel the reason the brethren are focused on the things they are is because they know where the real battle is and it isn't at the ballot box. The real battle is within our own hearts and whether or not we are going to choose Christ once again here on earth. It is Satan who is trying to sew all the anger in the political arena. I have strong political beliefs, but am no longer willing to argue with people because I had the realization just how much Satan is attacking people in this area. He wants us angry and upset. He wants us to see the unfairness and dishonest and be angry about it. Instead of making sure we are honest in our own lives. Christ does not want us angry and upset with others. If we are angry and upset we cannot serve others. We are not being Christ like. (Please don't bring up the money changers. That was not political. That was desecrating the Temple.) The only way to help people is to give them the gospel, help people live it better, and/or love people so they can find Christ. I have found that as the arguing has gone up, Gospel discussion has gone down. There was a lovely post about what Elder Ballard said at BYUI that was turned into and anti-romney post. I would have preferred for the gospel discussion to have continued, but it couldn't because of bickering.
This world is getting uglier, but we must rise above it and choose Christ. Instead Satan is swaying us to become the ugliness and it makes me sad.
As always Nan it is easy to see why you are grounded in the gospel. Just a friendly tip for you. Get John Pontius book "The Triumph of Zion: Our Personal Quest for the New Jerusalem". It is a wonderful collection of quotes and thoughts concerning our personal journey to become a zion-like (translated) person so as to be worthy to live with those from the city of Enoch and the Savior in the glorious New Jerusalem. Everything else really is just background noise used expertly by the adversary to get us off that true path to Zion. Flee Babylon! :ymhug:
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 11:05 am
After they repent, yes I do believe it, and it is true! Christ saves "all" mankind, he said it, and our modern day prophets have also repeated his words 378 times. The Prophet Joseph Smith give us the true definition of Salvation:awake wrote: I have done in depth study of repentance and I know everyone will eventually repent and be totally cleansed of their sins, in this life or the next.
But that doesn't mean that they will merit the Celestial Kingdom or the blessings of the temple, even if their temple work has been done for them.
For they must have lived a good enough life on earth, insomuch that 'if' they had heard about the Gospel on earth, they would have accepted it and lived it valiantly. Then they will be able to take advantage of the temple work done for them. And only God knows if a person would have accepted the Gospel and been valiant in it.
But if people lived wicked lives on earth, even against the limited light they had, then it is said they will not be worthy of those higher blessings.
Just because temple work is done for someone doesn't guarantee them the blessings. They must have lived worthy of those blessings on earth. We are all judged by our deeds done while on earth.
Even LDS who have had temple ordinances done while living, still aren't guaranteed they will have those blessings, they too must prove worthy of them here on earth.
After we die, our time of proving ourselves is over, and if we weren't valiant with the light we had, then we can't ever earn those eternal blessings in the next life.
Surely you don't believe that everyone can be wicked on earth and then have a relative do their temple work after they die, and they can then achieve Exaltation in the next life.
"Joseph Smith: "Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him!"
OR ONE LIKE HIM!!
I humble suggest re reading the D&C reference above, study it, and apply Joseph's definition.
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 11:15 am
Wow. So you believe everyone can live wicked lives on earth and then all be forgiven and exalted in the next life? You don't believe anyone will be in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom? D&C 76 doesn't seem to agree with you.bobhenstra wrote: After they repent, yes I do believe it, and it is true! Christ saves "all" mankind, he said it, and our modern day prophets have also repeated his words 378 times. The Prophet Joseph Smith give us the true definition of Salvation:
"Joseph Smith: "Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him!"
OR ONE LIKE HIM!!
I humble suggest re reading the D&C reference above, study it, and apply Joseph's definition.
Bob
It has always amazed me how everyone in the Church seems to believe in a different religion then each other and they are all 'sure' they are right.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 11:28 am
It was made clear to me that we all have our own personal religion that only we are members ofand only we understand all of the doctrines of our own private religion. I believe this is the case for everyone, up until they become members of the Church of the First Born. Which I am not (yet) but that is my goal.awake wrote:Wow. So you believe everyone can live wicked lives on earth and then all be forgiven and exalted in the next life? You don't believe anyone will be in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom? D&C 76 doesn't seem to agree with you.bobhenstra wrote: After they repent, yes I do believe it, and it is true! Christ saves "all" mankind, he said it, and our modern day prophets have also repeated his words 378 times. The Prophet Joseph Smith give us the true definition of Salvation:
"Joseph Smith: "Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him!"
OR ONE LIKE HIM!!
I humble suggest re reading the D&C reference above, study it, and apply Joseph's definition.
Bob
It has always amazed me how everyone in the Church seems to believe in a different religion then each other and they are all 'sure' they are right.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 11:36 am
I believe in study and understanding, not flying off the handle every time you hear something you don't understand!awake wrote:
Wow. So you believe everyone can live wicked lives on earth and then all be forgiven and exalted in the next life? You don't believe anyone will be in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom? D&C 76 doesn't seem to agree with you.
It has always amazed me how everyone in the Church seems to believe in a different religion then each other and they are all 'sure' they are right.
The 76th section is the word of God! I believe it with all my soul. However, your understanding of the 76th section leaves a lot to be desired.
I would be happy to go through the 76th section with you if you wish.
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 11:42 am
I agree. But I don't think I know of anyone yet today, who is a member of the Church of the First Born. But it would be nice to know someone in that Church and be able to talk with them and learn from them.Original_Intent wrote: It was made clear to me that we all have our own personal religion that only we are members ofand only we understand all of the doctrines of our own private religion. I believe this is the case for everyone, up until they become members of the Church of the First Born.
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 11:50 am
Its impossible to antagonize and influence at the same time. I've been plenty guilty of that.bobhenstra wrote:I believe in study and understanding, not flying off the handle every time you hear something you don't understand!awake wrote:
Wow. So you believe everyone can live wicked lives on earth and then all be forgiven and exalted in the next life? You don't believe anyone will be in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom? D&C 76 doesn't seem to agree with you.
It has always amazed me how everyone in the Church seems to believe in a different religion then each other and they are all 'sure' they are right.
The 76th section is the word of God! I believe it with all my soul. However, your understanding of the 76th section leaves a lot to be desired.
I would be happy to go through the 76th section with you if you wish.
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 2:24 pm
Absolutely correct! But it also determines for me those who are really interested in learning or just going through the motions, those who study or just read, those who sit like a bump on a log in church classes or honestly take part in true gospel learning by participating. It helps in determining just who are happy and wish to remain where they are concerning gospel knowledge or who understand they don't know much and wish to learn more.Legion wrote: Its impossible to antagonize and influence at the same time. I've been plenty guilty of that.
Joseph Smith: "We are saved no faster than we gain knowledge!"
Bob
Re: Yoda was right.
Posted: April 24th, 2012, 3:33 pm
Elder Hollands talk is great too for those who think that conversion, even at the last minute prior to the final judgement, simply can't equate to the righteous labor performed in the body while on earth. In the end the payment is the same!bobhenstra wrote:I believe in study and understanding, not flying off the handle every time you hear something you don't understand!awake wrote:
Wow. So you believe everyone can live wicked lives on earth and then all be forgiven and exalted in the next life? You don't believe anyone will be in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom? D&C 76 doesn't seem to agree with you.
It has always amazed me how everyone in the Church seems to believe in a different religion then each other and they are all 'sure' they are right.
The 76th section is the word of God! I believe it with all my soul. However, your understanding of the 76th section leaves a lot to be desired.
I would be happy to go through the 76th section with you if you wish.
Bob
#-o :ymhug: Methinks a lot of the brothers and sisters of the prodigal son will need repentance for their lack of forgiveness, or for being proud of their long day of "righteous" labor vs. the guy who showed up late.
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