LDS Freedom Forum

If we were all given 5 billion dollars and we had to decide what to do with it, based upon what the scriptures teach, how would we use it?

I believe the scriptures teach us to above all, give our excess to the poor.

"Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me." If we ignore the needy, we ignore Christ.

7cylon7 wrote:He would let them starve. He is in charge right this very second. We don't know all of God's plans nor his means. He let the saints be murdered, driven from homes, raped, homes burned and little ones die in the bitter cold of winter. God let all this happen. What would Jesus do? He is doing it right now. He would let the free agency of good and evil men prevail and let the consequence follow. He let JS suffer 5 months in liberty jail as the saints were forced marched out of Missouri in the middle of winter.

He said are you greater that I? Which suffered more than a man can suffer except it be unto death.

Yes, we should do what we can. However what we can do is very limited. I don't have the power to overcome the entire evil world and make right all the wrongs on this earth.

We are here to be tried and tested and those test are not fun nor easy. YET, if we endure them well, worlds without end are promised us... but more importantly we may obtain eternal life.

What would Jesus do, he would do exactly what is being done right at this very moment. He is doing it as we speak.

I think your question is a poor one that shows little thought of how god works.

Hmmm... while I agree that God allows suffering as part of the mortal experience I don't believe they are all tests meant to teach us something. Babies starving isn't teaching them anything at all, they are already perfect. Some crappy things happen because men fail to act. If we are waiting for a command to care for the needy, we are failing, IMO.

I disagree with Thinker about much of this, but I don't believe that all suffering has some greater purpose. Most of it is probably just suffering. I do agree with you that He lets men act as they will and reap the consequences, I just don't think all suffering is necessarily a test we need.

Thomas,
ACTION speak louder than words.
The handling of finances - keeping money & investments dark & secret is not of God.
Exploiting members by making their "worthiness" dependent upon paying 10% to them, is not of God.
Robbing from the poor is not of God, (Deut 14:28-29 instructs that 1/3 of tithes are to be given for the poor, which is not happening.
Trying to deceive members by not including Deut 14:28-29 in LDS scripture topical guides, dictionaries & indexes, is not of God.

AussieOi wrote: oh brother

sanctimony, baloney and pontification? "Perhaps some day, hopefully soon, you will focus that passion on laboring in the Lord's vineyard as He intended"

yeah, and go save all those fat white people who need saving

come on. what was that?

As for the ointment, we had that in the city creek thing and it was shot down there. thats pathetic, as have the things i have read in this thread, the replies about african governments being corrupt and blah blah

even down to the no tithing money spent on city creek. WHO CARES WHAT "ACCOUNT" IT COMES OUT OF. it is money that came from peoples sweat. and if it was earning interest sufficient to then be parked in a house of mammon then why wasn't it used.

what would he do? ive thought about this for 2 days. i dont know if i have an answer

i don't know if i know, and i dont know if i'd ever find out

i don't think we are true disciples in our church- the members. me included no doubt

1 in 6.

30,000 per day

mostly kids under 6

these are THE very people who will inhabit the celestial kingdom- IF we believe our doctrine

and no. i dont believe they will be magically turned white in heaven. or maybe they will.

either way, we will - IF we make it to the same kingdom- probably be asked by them- why didnt you help me

if i had the time or interest i would find the posts in the mall thread from some here saying "oh i cant wait to go there, my father is coming down and we'll go do a session in the temple then go over

it makes me sick

christ probably isnt wasting his time with us. he's probably out there with the people trying to help his children. if we believe that footprints in the sand thing

we're too busy arguing about the sand, or saying they should be wearing shoes, or its their own fault.



but its alright. we've given $1.4billion dollars over the last 34 years. we're the best. hooraa

Thank you for this post.
It is encouraging that someone else realizes the need & the resonse that is of Christ.

Gee thinker and Aussie both think alike. Who'd a guessed it!

AussieOi wrote:

coachmarc wrote:Thinker, I gotta say I admire your passion. Perhaps some day, hopefully soon, you will focus that passion on laboring in the Lord's vineyard as He intended. I'm sure you read my previous post, but skipped right over it in your zeal to continue with your fixation. No worries. I have to assume you're LDS and if so, you're preaching to the choir. If not, then I invite you to dig deeper and understand that Jesus Christ is STILL laboring in the vineyard (Jacob 5). Yes, people are starving everywhere and they were starving while our Savior walked the earth:

1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.

3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him,

5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.

8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

You see, Thinker, man does not live by bread alone. Proper study of ALL the scriptures will enable you to understand the most important work of the Lord:

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

You are focused and fixated on one tree and missing the point and purpose of the entire forest--or shall I say vineyard? Do you understand the allegory of the tame and wild olive trees? Prophets like Zenos, Isaiah, Nephi, etc, etc, etc, understood the most important work, which the Lord began before the world was and is STILL working diligently to this day and WILL NOT STOP until it is finished and after the millennium, He presents the celestialized earth to His Father. Perhaps when you have caught this vision, you will make an amazing missionary and bring souls unto Christ.

oh brother

sanctimony, baloney and pontification? "Perhaps some day, hopefully soon, you will focus that passion on laboring in the Lord's vineyard as He intended"

yeah, and go save all those fat white people who need saving

come on. what was that?

As for the ointment, we had that in the city creek thing and it was shot down there. thats pathetic, as have the things i have read in this thread, the replies about african governments being corrupt and blah blah

even down to the no tithing money spent on city creek. WHO CARES WHAT "ACCOUNT" IT COMES OUT OF. it is money that came from peoples sweat. and if it was earning interest sufficient to then be parked in a house of mammon then why wasn't it used.

what would he do? ive thought about this for 2 days. i dont know if i have an answer

i don't know if i know, and i dont know if i'd ever find out

i don't think we are true disciples in our church- the members. me included no doubt

1 in 6.

30,000 per day

mostly kids under 6

these are THE very people who will inhabit the celestial kingdom- IF we believe our doctrine

and no. i dont believe they will be magically turned white in heaven. or maybe they will.

either way, we will - IF we make it to the same kingdom- probably be asked by them- why didnt you help me

if i had the time or interest i would find the posts in the mall thread from some here saying "oh i cant wait to go there, my father is coming down and we'll go do a session in the temple then go over

it makes me sick

christ probably isnt wasting his time with us. he's probably out there with the people trying to help his children. if we believe that footprints in the sand thing

we're too busy arguing about the sand, or saying they should be wearing shoes, or its their own fault.



but its alright. we've given $1.4billion dollars over the last 34 years. we're the best. hooraa

This is ridiculous. Have you ever eaten at a restaurant, Aussie? Why? You know you could satisfy your hunger with rice and beans and you are to waste resources on overpriced dining? You could have provided food for a year to a family by giving up that night out!

Do you drive a car when you could take a bicycle, or fly when you could take a boat? Maybe your house has more than one room? Don't you know people live without a roof over their heads and you could fit more than one family in your house if you just weren't a fat, lazy dope from a developed country.

Maybe when you go for a business trip, you fly rather than travel by steamboat because it is a wiser use of money even though it costs more? Maybe the business arm of the church invests money that isn't tithing money in a mall because it's a wise business venture.

So true ChelC. Did Aussie actually called somebody else here sanctimonious? =)) The guy comes over here to the states on vacation and spends thousands of dollars at Marriott porn hotels and disneyland and Vegas buffets and he is actually lecturing the church and the Brethren about wasteful spending? This is to much. Thanks for the laugh mate. )

you and I have nothing in common Mark

You must only remember all of my posts from years ago because you are ashamed you were such a coward for not seeing me when i was parked out the front of your neighborhood for that afternoon when I was there and you wouldn't meet with me

How I spend some of my money is none of your business. its not YOUR money Mark
You also have no idea what my family with OUR money, and OUR time. But that is besides.
I am sure you eat dog food and wear heshan sacks right Mark? but that too is irrelevant.

How the money is spend CAN be commented on. And if you don't think dropping $5b on a shopping centre suggests they are missing something then fine, like I say we aren't alike so that would be expected.

President Hinckley showed with his War and Peace general conference talk when he said "this is my opinion" and he was subsequently proven to be wrong "great armies with great arsenals" were not ready to do battle, it was an invasion / slaughter. Iraq had no WMD. Had nothing to do with 9/11. The war for AIPAC and profit had nothing to do with freedom and has bankrupted your country- as most said at the time it would.

It cost hundreds of thousands of lives, displaced an entire country and cost the blood of errant fools. If that can be wrong, If Adam God can be wrong. If blacks and the priesthood can be wrong (want me to go on?)- then the shame that we have only given $1.4b of our tens of billions might also be something we will look back on one day and wonder why we held onto it and for what purpose.

It is nothing. it is moth stuff, it rusts, it melts, it burns. it sits in vaults. and we have tens of billions

As for those saying god allows it because he has other things to care about, like us prancing around in his vineyard, well, you too and i have differnt understandings. god only allows it because he allows all sorts of sin. and that sin is as a testament agains the sinner as much as a testament against those who knew of it but did nothing about it
but if you knew a kid was going to be abused tonight by his priest would you say "oh well if god wanted it to stop he'd do something about it". of course not. but we can let 1 in 6 of his children die. yeah, great christians aren't we.

better go preach to some guy in his mcmansion in upper pennyslvania, he might be the lords elect. he might be israel, let me pray and lets go find him. he really needs us

lets all spend our time in meetings. yes, serve in the vineyard. another corelation, another WWLT, another reporting of statistics.

but i dont do my home teaching so im a hypocrite so what wuld i know

still, weak as dishwater the both of you and your ilk

insert 50 more stupid smilies

its al you have Mark. Snide remards and smilies

like i say, you and I are nothing alike. but thats good for you, because i speak ill of the lords anointed dont i. and all is well in zion, tens of billions, malls, radio stations, television stations, newspapers, insurance companies, banks, universities, the presidential nominee. yea, all is well

For everyone on both sides, the Lord will be cleansing the land soon, if it already hasn't begun and it will begin in His own house first. In the meantime, personally speaking, I will continue to do my best to obey all of His commandments, every whit, which includes bringing tithes and offerings to His house.

I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating anything, but my first reaction was that the people in the world who are starving don't just need money. In fact, I don't think money can solve the problem. The people need a minister. Not just a missionary who goes for a couple years and leaves to come home and pursue his own goals. I mean a minister. They need someone whose whole heart is devoted to the cause of helping them. Someone who will live and die with the people. Someone who will not just build a school and leave. Rather someone who will inspire and build and then stay. Not just someone who will "teach them to fish," but someone who will be a friend and fishing partner for many years. We like to solve problems from the outside. Build a school or a hospital and then come back to the US and live our own life. Kind of like a senate who refuses to be subject to the healthcare plan of the masses. We like to interject our opinions and give a token effort to helping people, but we refuse to truly be afflicted in the afflictions of others. We only like to champion good causes as pet projects, not as lifelong pursuits. Ghandi and Mother Theresa were such successful ministers because their lives were worn out in the service of their cause, in the trenches of the fight against poverty and for peaceful independence. They didn't just spend a few years championing a cause. They desired to serve the people they ministered to as Ammon did: "perhaps until the day I die." If we really wanted to make a change we would sell our houses and goods and go make change. Comfort=condemnation unless it comes from Christ. Prosperity seems to come with an eternal price. And by writing this I am quite possibly a hypocrite, and I acknowledge it with a heavy heart. How can we leave the bondage of Babylon?

Thank you, chase. And careful study tells us that Ammon did indeed spend the rest of his days with Lamoni and his people. He moved with them from the Land of Nephi to Jershon and then to Melek, having become appointed to be their high priest. I would like to think that he even moved with them in their migration to the land north years later if he was still alive. We cannot help all people all the time, but we can do what is in our own power. I don't know if we can leave the bondage of Babylon. We are so far entrenched, hence the imminent cleansing.

20 Behold what the scripture says—man shall not smite, neither shall he judge; for judgment is mine, saith the Lord, and vengeance is mine also, and I will repay.

AussieOi wrote:you and I have nothing in common Mark

You must only remember all of my posts from years ago because you are ashamed you were such a coward for not seeing me when i was parked out the front of your neighborhood for that afternoon when I was there and you wouldn't meet with me

How I spend some of my money is none of your business. its not YOUR money Mark
You also have no idea what my family with OUR money, and OUR time. But that is besides.
I am sure you eat dog food and wear heshan sacks right Mark? but that too is irrelevant.

How the money is spend CAN be commented on. And if you don't think dropping $5b on a shopping centre suggests they are missing something then fine, like I say we aren't alike so that would be expected.

President Hinckley showed with his War and Peace general conference talk when he said "this is my opinion" and he was subsequently proven to be wrong "great armies with great arsenals" were not ready to do battle, it was an invasion / slaughter. Iraq had no WMD. Had nothing to do with 9/11. The war for AIPAC and profit had nothing to do with freedom and has bankrupted your country- as most said at the time it would.

It cost hundreds of thousands of lives, displaced an entire country and cost the blood of errant fools. If that can be wrong, If Adam God can be wrong. If blacks and the priesthood can be wrong (want me to go on?)- then the shame that we have only given $1.4b of our tens of billions might also be something we will look back on one day and wonder why we held onto it and for what purpose.

It is nothing. it is moth stuff, it rusts, it melts, it burns. it sits in vaults. and we have tens of billions

As for those saying god allows it because he has other things to care about, like us prancing around in his vineyard, well, you too and i have differnt understandings. god only allows it because he allows all sorts of sin. and that sin is as a testament agains the sinner as much as a testament against those who knew of it but did nothing about it
but if you knew a kid was going to be abused tonight by his priest would you say "oh well if god wanted it to stop he'd do something about it". of course not. but we can let 1 in 6 of his children die. yeah, great christians aren't we.

better go preach to some guy in his mcmansion in upper pennyslvania, he might be the lords elect. he might be israel, let me pray and lets go find him. he really needs us

lets all spend our time in meetings. yes, serve in the vineyard. another corelation, another WWLT, another reporting of statistics.

but i dont do my home teaching so im a hypocrite so what wuld i know

still, weak as dishwater the both of you and your ilk

insert 50 more stupid smilies

its al you have Mark. Snide remards and smilies

like i say, you and I are nothing alike. but thats good for you, because i speak ill of the lords anointed dont i. and all is well in zion, tens of billions, malls, radio stations, television stations, newspapers, insurance companies, banks, universities, the presidential nominee. yea, all is well

What are you smoking mate? Had I known you were parked in front of my neighborhood I would have called the cops and had you arrested for stalking. You seem to be having a meltdown. I suggest a nice long walk and then maybe a plate of cookies for your home-teaching families. Service always seems to help lighten ones burdens when they are feeling over-whelmed. Based on that last post you could use some relief in the worst way. Take some deep breathes and remember that the Lord loves you. Forgiveness is good for the soul. Don't harbor grudges. It will eat you up inside. I'm here for you Bro. :ymhug:

chasetafer0707 wrote:I haven't read this whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating anything, but my first reaction was that the people in the world who are starving don't just need money. In fact, I don't think money can solve the problem. The people need a minister. Not just a missionary who goes for a couple years and leaves to come home and pursue his own goals. I mean a minister. They need someone whose whole heart is devoted to the cause of helping them. Someone who will live and die with the people. Someone who will not just build a school and leave. Rather someone who will inspire and build and then stay. Not just someone who will "teach them to fish," but someone who will be a friend and fishing partner for many years. We like to solve problems from the outside. Build a school or a hospital and then come back to the US and live our own life. Kind of like a senate who refuses to be subject to the healthcare plan of the masses. We like to interject our opinions and give a token effort to helping people, but we refuse to truly be afflicted in the afflictions of others. We only like to champion good causes as pet projects, not as lifelong pursuits. Ghandi and Mother Theresa were such successful ministers because their lives were worn out in the service of their cause, in the trenches of the fight against poverty and for peaceful independence. They didn't just spend a few years championing a cause. They desired to serve the people they ministered to as Ammon did: "perhaps until the day I die." If we really wanted to make a change we would sell our houses and goods and go make change. Comfort=condemnation unless it comes from Christ. Prosperity seems to come with an eternal price. And by writing this I am quite possibly a hypocrite, and I acknowledge it with a heavy heart. How can we leave the bondage of Babylon?

This weighs on my mind and heart too.
I wonder what would God have me do & give, & when & how?
I don't know for sure - I'm just living by faith - trying to do what I think he'd have me do.
I do know that there is a time & season for every purpose, & that my priority is my family now, but together, we can & have helped others & are working toward goals so we can help in more ways.

Mother Teresa is inspiring, but I have to admit, I felt a little overwhelmed comparing myself to her.
She wasn't a parent, she wasn't married. She was a Catholic nun, dedicating her life to God's will, in relation to her religion.
But I admire her how she loved as if every person, no matter how difficult to care for, was Christ & loving them was loving Christ... thinking this way helped her get past some of the leprocy issues, smells etc.
Some quotes about Mother Teresa...
"We cannot view her through Catholic eyes, or Hindu eyes, but only through human eyes, for she does not discriminate. She respects all religions and all people. It is not as if she is not a good Catholic. She is, but she does not make it exclusive." -Micahel Gomez (who Mother Teresa lived with for a time)

When asked if Mother Teresa was trying to convert everyone she served, she responded, "I do convert. I convert you to be a better Hindu, a better Catholic, a better Muslim, or Jain or Buddhist. I would like to help yoiu to find God. When you find Him, it is up to you to do what you want with Him."

Chase, as you mentioned, we can only do so much from the comforts of our homes...
"You have seen how difficult it is for our leopracy patients to come to us from Dhapa or Titagarh, or from the slums. We must go to them. We must not stay behind our walls." -Mother Teresa

Mother Teresa was offered a business, & investments to make interest, but she responded, "I don't want the work to become a business. It must remain a work of love... I do not need money in the bank, I need money to use for my people."

Here are some quotes by Ghandi. I had the opportunity of visiting the place where he is buried and I took pictures of placards there that had these words on them. I tend to accept that Ghandi knew what he was talking about. In other words, I don't presume to be more religiously wise than he, simply because I'm a Mormon. I don't know who translated these, so bear that in mind. They do ring true though, and I'm inclined to believe the principles that they endorse.

"I claim to be a humble servant of India and humanity, and would like to die in the discharge of such service. I have no desire to form a sect. I am really too ambitious to be satisfied with a sect for a following. For I represent no new truths. I endeavor to follow and represent Truth [interesting that he capitalizes truth here], as I know it. I do claim to throw a new light on many an old truth."

"I am a man of peace. I believe in peace. But I do not want peace at any price. Do not want peace that you find in the grave; but I do want that peace which you find embedded in the human breast, which is exposed to the arrows of a whole world, but which is protected from all harm by the power of the almighty god."

"I know the path. It is straight and narrow. It is like the edge of a sword and I rejoice to walk on it. I weep when I slip. God's word is: 'He who strives never perishes.' I have implicit faith in that promise. Though, therefore, from my weakness I fall a thousand times, I will not lose faith, but hope that I shall se the Light [again interesting capitalization] when the flesh has been brought under perfect subjection, as some day it must."

chasetafer0707 wrote:Here are some quotes by Ghandi. I had the opportunity of visiting the place where he is buried and I took pictures of placards there that had these words on them. I tend to accept that Ghandi knew what he was talking about. In other words, I don't presume to be more religiously wise than he, simply because I'm a Mormon. I don't know who translated these, so bear that in mind. They do ring true though, and I'm inclined to believe the principles that they endorse.

"I claim to be a humble servant of India and humanity, and would like to die in the discharge of such service. I have no desire to form a sect. I am really too ambitious to be satisfied with a sect for a following. For I represent no new truths. I endeavor to follow and represent Truth [interesting that he capitalizes truth here], as I know it. I do claim to throw a new light on many an old truth."

"I am a man of peace. I believe in peace. But I do not want peace at any price. Do not want peace that you find in the grave; but I do want that peace which you find embedded in the human breast, which is exposed to the arrows of a whole world, but which is protected from all harm by the power of the almighty god."

"I know the path. It is straight and narrow. It is like the edge of a sword and I rejoice to walk on it. I weep when I slip. God's word is: 'He who strives never perishes.' I have implicit faith in that promise. Though, therefore, from my weakness I fall a thousand times, I will not lose faith, but hope that I shall se the Light [again interesting capitalization] when the flesh has been brought under perfect subjection, as some day it must."

Great quotes! Thanks for sharing them, Chase.
I especially respect how he encouraged progress & doing what's right (even if counter to dominating forces), but in a peaceful way.

Thomas wrote:Thinker, there comes a point when you have to set your concerns aside and just act in the best manner you can. I know not everyone sees the church in a perfect light. You have to be able to seperate what you hear in and around the church, including in this forum, from what is true doctrine. Many false doctrines are taught in church. The church is made up of imperfect people. We cannot hold them up to a standard of perfection. Even the peophets are still just people and can make mistakes.


amen. if more people understood that they would be less fanatical;.. in both directions too i mean


I understand you have concerns. I too have concerns for the poor but we don't have the vision the lord has.

oh oh. are you abot to excuse mankinds doing nothing here?


For now this is the church we have, to give us the ordinaces of salvation.


hang on . the church is still under condemnation

So long as it is an organization of men, there will be false doctrines taught and people will act in an unchristlike manner. This is the test we have been given.
yes! to rise above that.
and correct it


If you have concerns about church doctrine, take your concerns, in prayer, to the lord.

hang on. i dont see he has any problems with doctrine. i dont. id be long gone from the weird show if i did
wouldn't pay tithing to the LDS church thats for sure

The numbered list you have given above are human faults. They can be bothersome for many but don't confuse these behaviors with church doctrine. We all have to live with the faults of others, including our own. We are all still learning.

are we entitled to seek to correct those errors? draw attention to them?
how are these errors fixed do you think?
or do we shut up and let GAs only fix GAs errors?
how do you think they will notice them?

7cylon7 wrote:He would let them starve. He is in charge right this very second. We don't know all of God's plans nor his means. He let the saints be murdered, driven from homes, raped, homes burned and little ones die in the bitter cold of winter. God let all this happen. What would Jesus do? He is doing it right now. He would let the free agency of good and evil men prevail and let the consequence follow. He let JS suffer 5 months in liberty jail as the saints were forced marched out of Missouri in the middle of winter.

He said are you greater that I? Which suffered more than a man can suffer except it be unto death.

Yes, we should do what we can. However what we can do is very limited. I don't have the power to overcome the entire evil world and make right all the wrongs on this earth.

We are here to be tried and tested and those test are not fun nor easy. YET, if we endure them well, worlds without end are promised us... but more importantly we may obtain eternal life.

What would Jesus do, he would do exactly what is being done right at this very moment. He is doing it as we speak.

I think your question is a poor one that shows little thought of how god works.

Wow. if Jesus were here he would let them starve.......... all those helpless children, "don't worry kids, another six months of starvation and suffering and then you'll make it to the other side."
seriously come on. If Jesus were here he would give freely of all his abundance so that no one would be in need, as he has promised when he does arrive. He would do ALL he could, and Until he turns up he expects us, you know, Christians that represent him, to do what we can in His place, Especially His chosen people and His Church that Bears His name, would be expected to do ALL they could within their means. To say that his lack of intervention determines his intention is the same as saying YOU want those children to starve, because YOU don't do anything about it, God doesn't expect us to 'run' faster than we are able when giving financially, but I would like to know how that phrase applies to a billion dollar mall.

also you are mistaken about who is in control of this earth at the moment:

“Satan has control now. No matter where you look, he is in control, even in our own land. He is guiding the governments as far as the Lord will permit him. That is why there is so much strife, turmoil, confusion all over the earth. One master mind is governing the nations. It is not the President of the United States…it is not the king or government of England or any other land; it is Satan himself.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, pp. 314-315)

What would Jesus do, he would do exactly what is being done right at this very moment. He is doing it as we speak.

You can't honestly say that with all the filth, war, murder, sickness, disease and poverty in the world that God is having it His way.....

yes they can, and yes they do

when you hear general conference on your own tongue, as they do, and have all they see of the success of the church, all is well in zion brudda, all is well in zion

$1.4b

30 years

what an indictment

saying "because we aren't doing anything it must mean this is what jesus wants" is just a professional cop out

AussieOi wrote:yes they can, and yes they do

when you hear general conference on your own tongue, as they do, and have all they see of the success of the church, all is well in zion brudda, all is well in zion

$1.4b

30 years

what an indictment

saying "because we aren't doing anything it must mean this is what jesus wants" is just a professional cop out

You who are young will see many things that will try your courage and test your faith. All of the mocking does not come from outside of the Church. Let me say that again: All of the mocking does not come from outside of the Church. Be careful that you do not fall into the category of mocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tttAr4u7dL8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey Aussie btw here is a forum you could really sink your teeth into. They love to mock the LDS church and the Brethren for many of the same things that this forum often seems to enjoy as well. The mall is but one of their favorites. They would love to hear from someone down under like you who thinks things have gone off the rails in the church. Who knows? Maybe you can rescue some of them..

http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewfor ... 6a725ec3c7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems to me that you won't have any explanation, Aussie. You decided right away what you thought of the mall and you don't care that it is funded by a for profit business that happens to be owned by the church. You don't care that it is an investment. You don't care that tithes and offerings were NOT used.

You want to view this as the church turning it's back on the poor when such is not the case. Next time you are in America send me a message and you can meet us at welfare square. My husband will set you up with a tour. We won't stand you up like Mark did. Then you can visit the humanitarian center, and we can show you around the mammoth bishop's storehouse that recently opened it's doors. The church is involved in a LOT of welfare work, more than most people realize and members donate more than people realize.

This is entirely separate from businesses owned by the church and if you refuse to see that it's your loss. It's your anger. It's not one giant piggy bank, Aussie. Furthermore, much of the wealth of the church is in holdings, not cash.

When I was picking on you about how you live I was hoping you'd see that it's all about perspective. Almost everyone who lives in a developed country is smart enough to know that there are some things you spend money on because they make you more money. That's called being a good steward of your resources.

Mark wrote:

AussieOi wrote:yes they can, and yes they do

when you hear general conference on your own tongue, as they do, and have all they see of the success of the church, all is well in zion brudda, all is well in zion

$1.4b

30 years

what an indictment

saying "because we aren't doing anything it must mean this is what jesus wants" is just a professional cop out

You who are young will see many things that will try your courage and test your faith. All of the mocking does not come from outside of the Church. Let me say that again: All of the mocking does not come from outside of the Church. Be careful that you do not fall into the category of mocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tttAr4u7dL8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

why post that? you are the king of the mockers. all your comments are just sarcastic mocking. I appreciate aussies straight up/ in your face/ don't beat around the bush approach to issues. Unfortunately in your bubble you cant tell the difference between someone with a passionate thirst for truth and answers, and an apostate. Instead you will try cut down, belittle and mock. Sad.

ChelC wrote:It seems to me that you won't have any explanation, Aussie. You decided right away what you thought of the mall and you don't care that it is funded by a for profit business that happens to be owned by the church. You don't care that it is an investment. You don't care that tithes and offerings were NOT used.

You want to view this as the church turning it's back on the poor when such is not the case. Next time you are in America send me a message and you can meet us at welfare square. My husband will set you up with a tour. We won't stand you up like Mark did. Then you can visit the humanitarian center, and we can show you around the mammoth bishop's storehouse that recently opened it's doors. The church is involved in a LOT of welfare work, more than most people realize and members donate more than people realize.

This is entirely separate from businesses owned by the church and if you refuse to see that it's your loss. It's your anger. It's not one giant piggy bank, Aussie. Furthermore, much of the wealth of the church is in holdings, not cash.

When I was picking on you about how you live I was hoping you'd see that it's all about perspective. Almost everyone who lives in a developed country is smart enough to know that there are some things you spend money on because they make you more money. That's called being a good steward of your resources.

Agreed again ChelC. The people here like Aussie are not being intellectually honest about this whole mall thing. They continue to imply that the tithes and offerings being paid by members to the church are being used in this case. Yet when told that is NOT the case over and over again they continue to ignore that fact and keep making a false presumption about the church denying these funds to the poor. I really think they are doing this because they are only interested in putting the church into a negative light here. That is the real agenda going on here. Truth has very little meaning when the real objective is to condemn or judge the church and its leadership with a negative condemnatory tone.

drjme wrote:

Mark wrote:

AussieOi wrote:yes they can, and yes they do

when you hear general conference on your own tongue, as they do, and have all they see of the success of the church, all is well in zion brudda, all is well in zion

$1.4b

30 years

what an indictment

saying "because we aren't doing anything it must mean this is what jesus wants" is just a professional cop out

You who are young will see many things that will try your courage and test your faith. All of the mocking does not come from outside of the Church. Let me say that again: All of the mocking does not come from outside of the Church. Be careful that you do not fall into the category of mocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tttAr4u7dL8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

why post that? you are the king of the mockers. all your comments are just sarcastic mocking. I appreciate aussies straight up/ in your face/ don't beat around the bush approach to issues. Unfortunately in your bubble you cant tell the difference between someone with a passionate thirst for truth and answers, and an apostate. Instead you will try cut down, belittle and mock. Sad.

Passionate thirst for truth? Give me a break here drjme. Aussie takes every opportunity he can to second guess and paint a negative slant on decisions made by the Brethren in every issue he doesn't particularly agree with. Do you even read his posts? They are filled with a constant sarcastic denigrating attitude towards the church and the Brethren and the membership over and over again. He repeatedly accuses and indicts the Brethren of fostering an all is well attitude with the Saints and trying to blend in with the world in numerous ways. He feels somehow qualified to judge their decisions negatively yet has never once attended 1 meeting they have had is discussion about any of these issues. I try to defend the church and the Brethren from these constant attacks made by him and others and I'm the bad guy here? Whatever.. 8-|

Mark wrote:

Passionate thirst for truth? Give me a break here drjme. Aussie takes every opportunity he can to second guess and paint a negative slant on decisions made by the Brethren in every issue he doesn't particularly agree with. Do you even read his posts? They are filled with a constant sarcastic denigrating attitude towards the church and the Brethren and the membership over and over again. He repeatedly accuses and indicts the Brethren of fostering an all is well attitude with the Saints and trying to blend in with the world in numerous ways. He feels somehow qualified to judge their decisions negatively yet has never once attended 1 meeting they have had is discussion about any of these issues. I try to defend the church and the Brethren from these constant attacks made by him and others and I'm the bad guy here? Whatever.. 8-|

I dont know if he could organize a meeting with the pres to discuss the churches financial decisions, but anyways..

has he said they aren't fit to lead the church? no
has he said the gospel of Jesus Christ isn't true? no
does he ask hard questions that make people question? yes
does he put the leaders up on an infallible pedestal? no
do possibly the leaders make some wrong decisions? maybe

lets say that 1.4 bil was spent on humanitarian assistance or training more people to go on humanitarian missions. And then the church used that as publicity. wouldn't that be great press? All those Christian/mormons out there. I'm sure the welfare of people, and the service rendered would be more of a benefit to the church in drawing more people to the church than a possible 4% return on an investment. I don't know and I don't try to know what prompts the leaders of the church or / corporate arms to make their decisions. maybe the first pres had no say in this? but were talking about billions of church funds here, would they not have a say in it?

i'm in a similar boat. I don't question their ability to lead the church, but I ask in this situation...why? and How does that mall help ANYONE?