An 18 step plan to fix America

[Col. Flagg]

http://www.rense.com/general80/draft.htm

I thought Webster's ideas were very good and ethical. However, the whole 'free healthcare and college for everyone' suggestion is a bit radical. I especially love #2! Unfortunately though, if the minimum wage were raised to $15-$20 per hour so that people could actually afford to live, costs for everthing would just go up along with it and so you really wouldn't be able to get ahead. I would be for any plan that allows for me to provide enough of an income on my own so that my wife doesn't have to work just so that we can make ends meet in this greedy society!! The trick would be determining incomes based on experience and education. Obviously, it wouldn't be right for someone with no college education to be earning a wage similar to someone who does. What has been frustrating for me is being laid off twice in the last 7 years and it's like starting over financially when it happens (if and/or once you can get another job). I'm highly educated, but because of two layoffs and the pathetic wages paid in Utah County, my wife has to work full-time and I know many people with no or little college education making 2-3 times what I do. If there were statutes or limits on what a person should be earning based upon his/her education and/or experience, this would not be a problem for anyone. I would imagine that if we currently had a society headed by Christ, income inequality would not be what it is AND women/mothers would not have to work to help make ends meet for their family!

[BroJones]

Col Flagg:

I would imagine that if we currently had a society headed by Christ, income inequality would not be what it is AND women/mothers would not have to work to help make ends meet for their family!

Certainly true... and I think of the scriptures in the D&C where the Lord says that some having much more than others is wickedness... So far from the laws of Zion!

[lundbaek]

Careful, guys. Please read "The Proper Role of Government", "Many Are Called but Few Are Chosen", and the US Constitution before going much farther with this.

[shadow]

Minimum wage is a terrible idea. Always has been. The free market (if left free) typically knows best and pays accordingly. If minimum wage worked, why not have everyone make $100/hour??

A college education doesn't mean much to me as I don't have a degree. I don't believe one should get paid based on what education paper they hold. I know too many inept people with college degrees.

I'd much rather hire someone with ambition than one who holds a degree in my face and suggests they're "entitled" to the job.

It seems that Col. Flagg is suggesting that a college degree is worth the paper it's written on, to that extent, I agree. Value is in people, not degrees.

[Col. Flagg]

Minimum wage is a terrible idea. Always has been. The free market (if left free) typically knows best and pays accordingly. If minimum wage worked, why not have everyone make $100/hour??

A college education doesn't mean much to me as I don't have a degree. I don't believe one should get paid based on what education paper they hold. I know too many inept people with college degrees.

I'd much rather hire someone with ambition than one who holds a degree in my face and suggests they're "entitled" to the job.

It seems that Col. Flagg is suggesting that a college degree is worth the paper it's written on, to that extent, I agree. Value is in people, not degrees.

It's hard to assess someone's ambition, but if that person has a college degree, that tells the employer that that person was willing to sacrifice a lot of time, energy and money to work hard to become educated, which is a lot better gauge of one's character and work-ethic. Why spend all of that time, energy, hard work and money for a degree if you aren't going to earn anymore than the guy who has no degree?

[ithink]

The whole idea of a tiered society in any form is fundamentally and fatally flawed. This includes not only the strict possession of money and other "stuff", but includes the caste system of college degrees, and controlled professional communities that you are saying need to be paid more money. A moments reflection will reveal that caste and professional societies are created not just to protect the public, but to protect the members of the society, and this is true but usually in the opposite order. Consider first and foremost the profession of law to confirm this in your mind.

A man, according to the scriptures, should receive remuneration for his time according to both his time and the size of his family-- and nothing else. Those who have talents that make them great doctors of science are obligated to be the best scientists they can be. But the same goes for MD's, firefighters, nurses, grocery clerks, ditch diggers, electricians, street cleaners, roofers, landscapers, stone masons, historians, librarians, janitors, drywallers, civil engineers, miners, politicians, philosophers, musicians, authors, poets, with special emphasis on the arts, because they are usually the first to go. In our society, anyone with a talent that doesn't produce fruit must soon get one (or fake one) or they starve. God has shown us the way, but we seldom even begin to think correctly. Of all God's creations, very few are for the belly. You can't eat a tree or a side of a mountain, or flowers in general for that matter. Similarly, the philosopher, musician, artist, and mother do not produce anything worth selling either, so they often suffer the most.

Consider also the example of the body of the church. The eye cannot say to the ear, "I have no use for thee", and vice versa. For that matter, the soft skin of the cheek cannot say to the crusty toenail -- I have no use of thee. This applies to the economy also. Every occupation, no matter how mundane, is equally worthy. I have heard a stake president put forth the ideas that getting educated is the better way to go, while he simultaneously gets on the phone to a plumber because he can't unclog his own toilet. What is the most valuable profession to him at that time? To say that education somehow makes people more valuable is just not true. Consider all the trades and professions, suppliers, materials and all that is needed to build any temple. Which is the most valuable? And the answer is -- none are, they are all equal and necessary.

I once sat in the Seattle temple and watched one of the engineers bustling about all in a huff. I can only guess he was feeling under-appreciated. Yes he was paid, but I wondered if he wouldn't stop to think that all the folks visiting the temple that day were in a real way depending on him to do his job so well, they wouldn't even know he existed, and what is the value of that?!

A great read is "Billions for Bankers" by Sheldon Emry. You can view it here http://www.justiceplus.org/bankers.htm

Here's my favorite image of all time that describes this mess we are in:

[An aside: note that paper money is shown as one of the red herrings we are sent wildly blaming as one of our problems, when actually it is not]

Let's be sure we are humble enough to abandon all we need to abandon, and learn all we need to learn, so as not to be barking up the wrong tree. We may not be able to leave this mess yet, but if we can at least think correctly, and teach correctly, then we are in a way ready and at that point I believe God won't hold us back (He never has) and I believe we'll get what we can not only endure, but make flourish. I believe that is what He is referring to in Section 84: "Verily, verily, I say unto you who now hear my words, which are my voice, blessed are ye inasmuch as you receive these things; For I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment—that you remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity and the spirit of prayer, in bearing testimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you. " Note that this promise comes right after calling the church out for not taking the Book of Mormon seriously, which is what we are all talking about in one way or another throughout this whole website. So good on you all!

God bless you,

ithink

[shadow]

"It's hard to assess someone's ambition"
I don't think it is. "By their fruits ye shall know them" applies in many situations.

" but if that person has a college degree, that tells the employer that that person was willing to sacrifice a lot of time, energy and money to work hard to become educated, which is a lot better gauge of one's character and work-ethic."
I don't buy that for a second. Not to mention how that statement can be offensive to those who don't have a degree.

"Why spend all of that time, energy, hard work and money for a degree if you aren't going to earn anymore than the guy who has no degree?"
You tell me, you're the one with a degree complaining about being underpaid.

"Obviously, it wouldn't be right for someone with no college education to be earning a wage similar to someone who does."
Are you sure you want to stand by that comment??

[jbalm]

In my experience, a college degree is nothing more than a foot in the door. After that, your effort, talent, and results are all that matter.

As far as I'm concerned, a good carpenter who dropped out of high school deserves more pay than an average carpenter with a bachelor's degree. And I'd hire a non-degreed company manager who knows how to motivate people rather than an MBA who is a stick-in-the-mud.

Unfortunately, some people look at degrees as a ticket to a life of entitlement rather than an investment that may or may not pay off. And this attitude is encouraged by the highs schools and by the universities themselves.

By the way, I say this having acquired more degrees than I probably should have.

[Col. Flagg]

"It's hard to assess someone's ambition"
I don't think it is. "By their fruits ye shall know them" applies in many situations.

" but if that person has a college degree, that tells the employer that that person was willing to sacrifice a lot of time, energy and money to work hard to become educated, which is a lot better gauge of one's character and work-ethic."
I don't buy that for a second. Not to mention how that statement can be offensive to those who don't have a degree.

"Why spend all of that time, energy, hard work and money for a degree if you aren't going to earn anymore than the guy who has no degree?"
You tell me, you're the one with a degree complaining about being underpaid.

"Obviously, it wouldn't be right for someone with no college education to be earning a wage similar to someone who does."
Are you sure you want to stand by that comment??

I hope I didn't offend or upset you with any of my comments... they certainly were not intended to do so. They just stem from my frustration of being a highly educated individual, with little to show for it in the way of monetary compensation, but I guess that is mainly due to circumstances beyond my control (two layoffs). I will agree though that there are a lot of people who are or end up being better employees who are non-degreed than those who are. My point is that if someone spends 2 or 4 or 6 years in college in order to make more money in a supposed career position, then they should be sufficiently compensated for their knowledge, hard work and time spent obtaining that degree, otherwise, why even go to college?

Of course, I will also agree that a degree shouldn't (and doesn't) automatically mean that you're set for life... you have to earn your way by demonstrating competence, determination and hard work and you're right... non-degreed people can have these traits, while those who are degreed may not. The bottom line is that if I spend 4 years in college and, say, $50,000 to obtain a bachelor's degree, that should amount to above average compensation when you get a job, especially since it proves you're willing to work hard and sacrifice for something.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

Maybe you are in a market were the supply exceeds the demand..


Meaning that there are too many with those skills in one place.

[shadow]

No offense taken. I just want to make sure people know that just because one spends time and money going to school doesn't necessarily make them better or even more qualified than one who doesn't. Life in general is school and requires it's own sacrifices and tuition. I don't have to get a paper from a socialist school telling me I now have more value.

I hope you don't value your education based on a paycheck from an employer. Knowledge is a blessing in and of itself.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I think it was the Greek/Orthodox that wanted paper to prove knowledge, but true knowledge is what we acquire, retain and apply.

As long as you learned and retained your time was well spent.

Education comes through many avenues.

[CHH]

I believe employers LOVE to hire those with a degree. I know I have hired many of them. They don't think for themselves. They do what they are told. They aren't as smart as those that learn on their own. They cannot retain knowledge as well as people that had to learn on their own. Their ambition is less than average among people that have IQs above 120. They think the world owes them because the graduated and they walk in lock step with laws that control people.

If you want to work for a Corporation I highly suggest you get an advanced degree. I am sure Wal-mart would love to hire you or maybe even the Public School system.

Employers don't want entrepreneurs working for them. They want good little slaves just like the Government does.

I am proud to be self edjamacated high school drop out, business man, contractor, author, leader, Eagle Scout, paralegal, thorn in the side of the government, anti-Corporatist.

And I think that 3 dollars is hour is a dang good wage for any man. That's three DOLLARS an hour not a Federal Reserve note that Doctors and Lawyers think is a dollar cause their stupid and brainwashed from going to government schools and higher education like BYU and Harvard.

Did you know that most of those University Graduates PAY INCOME TAXES? What a bunch of morons and slaves.