LDS Freedom Forum

The Spirit whispered undertones of "Stop It" in many of the talks to me.

The talks are being added here so we can watch them again: http://www.youtube.com/user/LDSGeneralConference/videos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you all for the uplifting comments on the Conference and I very much appreciated your additional bio info on the speakers Like.

For me one of the best parts of the conference ( I haven't watched them all yet) was at the opening address by President Monson where he assured us that even though things might seem bad, no hand would stop the work of the Lord. This was comforting to me as I sometimes feel undue worry about if I am prepping in the right way and in the dire direction our country is taking, and the evil plans of the LDGs have in store for us. I worry for my family. So I immediately felt the Lord addressing this concern with the Prophet's assurance that no matter what, the work of the Lord would prosper, to me was especially appreciated.

Just heard Elder Holland's talk.

I still have a problem with this parable. I know... I need to work on it. I think it is the worst parable in the entire holy writ. Lets just suppose for a moment that I labor from 8 am until 5 pm for 100 dollars... my pay per hour is 12.50 an hour with a lunch hour. Okay so stay with me.... now if someone else came at 4 pm and worked one hour and got paid $100 the same wage I am getting then his pay rate is 100 per hour. Does any one else now see the problem here?

So yes I feel ripped off and in fact the early laborer is working at a slave wage. The late laborer should not get 100 dollars for only working 1 hour when I worked 8 hours doing the exact same work, I only got paid 12.50 an hour. The people that came the last hour should only get 12.50 for the 1 hours of work. The would be fair and that would be justice, however the late laborer that get 100 for only 1 hour of work is a thief and that not justice nor is it mercy. That is how I understood this the very first time I every heard it. I wondered at this parable for many years.

That is why so many people feel this parable is so bad and that something about it was not right.

Here is how I came to an understanding of this parable.

The only way to interpret this parable is that, in fact, the early workers do get paid more for their labors than do the later workers only in a spiritual since. Once I looked at this only in spiritual terms looking at this parable became easy to understand. In gospel terms, lets say I have been baptized since 8 years old. Should I make it and receive eternal life after a life time of service and struggle and commandment keeping, then I would expect to receive the same wage that say a 60 year old who got baptized later in life and only follow the commandments and service for many many years less than I did. In gospel terms, I have been pain more than he. I have known the truth longer, I did not have to wait till 60 to know the truth. My development may be and should be far beyond what a 60 years can accomplish in his time left. All the peace and joy in my early hours of service are compensation enough. I have the gift of the holy ghost for all those years to be my constant companion while the 60 year old baptized person did not. IN that sense I do not feel short changed at all. Even if both of us receive eternal life I do not envy his accomplishment. I rejoice with him. IN fact I am sadden that he did not know earlier in his life the truth. So only when viewed from a gospel spiritual aspect of this story do I not see a problem with it. All who come unto Christ no matter the late hour may receive a full gift and Christ is the judge of that and not me.

In the carnal state this is an injustice. 12.50 an hour for me while 100 an hour for you. That is not right. Who can say that is right? A loving God would not do this to his early laborers. Yet, when view with spiritual eyes and ears this parable makes all the sense in the world. Yet, one must understand that once laboring for the Savior one is getting paid and great reward and the longer one serves the more reward he earns or is gifted. In fact, I argue that the early laborer gets paid far more than the late laborer even if both finally receive eternal life.

As elder Holland stated this is not about laborers this is only to be taken spiritually.

He ended his talk with the most profound statement made in the entire conference.

"Don't delay, its getting late." I would like to ask him in private what he means by this yet I feel I already know the answer.

The late workers were willing and available and had to wait the whole day through to have the opportunity to participate. There is the work, but then there is the waiting... like a couple who can't have kids, like that person who is seeking for the truth their whole life, yearning, reaching and struggling, to finally get it in the last hour. Why are they not worthy of the full blessings.... "All that my Father hath..." It is so un capitalistic, but so good on a deeper level. If we give our all, even if that "all" is in patiently waiting to be called to the work, we are worthy of the hire.
Sorry if I came across as preachy, it is just starting to make sense to me. I understand your conundrum about it though.

Rand wrote:The late workers were willing and available and had to wait the whole day through to have the opportunity to participate. There is the work, but then there is the waiting... like a couple who can't have kids, like that person who is seeking for the truth their whole life, yearning, reaching and struggling, to finally get it in the last hour. Why are they not worthy of the full blessings.... "All that my Father hath..." It is so un capitalistic, but so good on a deeper level. If we give our all, even if that "all" is in patiently waiting to be called to the work, we are worthy of the hire.
Sorry if I came across as preachy, it is just starting to make sense to me. I understand your conundrum about it though.

Beautifully said. Remember, it's also about the householder's generosity to all the laborers. That was a key point in Elder Holland's talk. And that also puts into perspective what Rand shared.

I feel like I finally understand what Jesus Christ was saying with this parable. I did find it interesting that he ended that talk with "It is getting late." It felt like a very strong warning to me.

Nan wrote:I feel like I finally understand what Jesus Christ was saying with this parable. I did find it interesting that he ended that talk with "It is getting late." It felt like a very strong warning to me.

I also felt the very strong warning Nan. Take heed !

Jacob 5

61 Wherefore, go to, and call servants, that we may labor diligently with our might in the vineyard, that we may prepare the way, that I may bring forth again the natural fruit, which natural fruit is good and the most precious above all other fruit.

62 Wherefore, let us go to and labor with our might this last time, for behold the end draweth nigh, and this is for the last time that I shall prune my vineyard.

63 Graft in the branches; begin at the last that they may be first, and that the first may be last, and dig about the trees, both old and young, the first and the last; and the last and the first, that all may be nourished once again for the last time.

64 Wherefore, dig about them, and prune them, and dung them once more, for the last time, for the end draweth nigh. And if it be so that these last grafts shall grow, and bring forth the natural fruit, then shall ye prepare the way for them, that they may grow.

65 And as they begin to grow ye shall clear away the branches which bring forth bitter fruit, according to the strength of the good and the size thereof; and ye shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, lest the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft, and the graft thereof shall perish, and I lose the trees of my vineyard.

66 For it grieveth me that I should lose the trees of my vineyard; wherefore ye shall clear away the bad according as the good shall grow, that the root and the top may be equal in strength, until the good shall overcome the bad, and the bad be hewn down and cast into the fire, that they cumber not the ground of my vineyard; and thus will I sweep away the bad out of my vineyard.

67 And the branches of the natural tree will I graft in again into the natural tree;

68 And the branches of the natural tree will I graft into the natural branches of the tree; and thus will I bring them together again, that they shall bring forth the natural fruit, and they shall be one.

69 And the bad shall be cast away, yea, even out of all the land of my vineyard; for behold, only this once will I prune my vineyard.

70 And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard sent his servant; and the servant went and did as the Lord had commanded him, and brought other servants; and they were few.

71 And the Lord of the vineyard said unto them: Go to, and labor in the vineyard, with your might. For behold, this is the last time that I shall nourish my vineyard; for the end is nigh at hand, and the season speedily cometh; and if ye labor with your might with me ye shall have joy in the fruit which I shall lay up unto myself against the time which will soon come.

72 And it came to pass that the servants did go and labor with their mights; and the Lord of the vineyard labored also with them; and they did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things....

75 And it came to pass that when the Lord of the vineyard saw that his fruit was good, and that his vineyard was no more corrupt, he called up his servants, and said unto them: Behold, for this last time have we nourished my vineyard; and thou beholdest that I have done according to my will; and I have preserved the natural fruit, that it is good, even like as it was in the beginning. And blessed art thou; for because ye have been diligent in laboring with me in my vineyard, and have kept my commandments, and have brought unto me again the natural fruit, that my vineyard is no more corrupted, and the bad is cast away, behold ye shall have joy with me because of the fruit of my vineyard.

Rand wrote:The late workers were willing and available and had to wait the whole day through to have the opportunity to participate. There is the work, but then there is the waiting... like a couple who can't have kids, like that person who is seeking for the truth their whole life, yearning, reaching and struggling, to finally get it in the last hour. Why are they not worthy of the full blessings.... "All that my Father hath..." It is so un capitalistic, but so good on a deeper level. If we give our all, even if that "all" is in patiently waiting to be called to the work, we are worthy of the hire.
Sorry if I came across as preachy, it is just starting to make sense to me. I understand your conundrum about it though.

It's more than that. Read and apply the parable of the prodigal son. The late workers include those that were off partying, those that had no desire to work!

Juliette wrote:

Nan wrote:I feel like I finally understand what Jesus Christ was saying with this parable. I did find it interesting that he ended that talk with "It is getting late." It felt like a very strong warning to me.

I also felt the very strong warning Nan. Take heed !

In the Priesthood session Pres. Uchtdorf said "Do not delay"

bobhenstra wrote:Thanks Like! I recorded all the talks I could, Elder Hollands talk rung my bell more than any of them, I'll be listening to it again tonight.

President Monson's talk at the Priesthood session was really good.

Lots of talk about helping the poor, our military people. But nothing about politics----- Maybe tomorrow? :-s

Bob

I loved Elder Wilson's talk on Unrighteous Dominion and the power of agency.

President Monson’s Blessing Gesture

liberty_belle wrote:I loved Elder Wilson's talk on Unrighteous Dominion and the power of agency.

Most important talk of the whole conference, in my opinion.

Stella Solaris wrote:

liberty_belle wrote:I loved Elder Wilson's talk on Unrighteous Dominion and the power of agency.

Most important talk of the whole conference, in my opinion.

Stella Solaris wrote:

liberty_belle wrote:I loved Elder Wilson's talk on Unrighteous Dominion and the power of agency.

Most important talk of the whole conference, in my opinion.

I had a small problem with this talk. The problem was the continued onslaught of bashing men and their roles in general. We are so concerned about unrighteous dominion that men now don't dominion at all. Men have become metro-sexualized. I see a huge number of men not at the head of his family but at the feet of their wives. I see it all the time. This new movement is a controlled effort to keep men in their place so they are more docile and so they won't rebel against TPTB. Do we want men to stand up for what is right and be brave and courageous and fight evil in the face or do we want men that would rather fold the laundry and make sure his demanding wife is all comfy with the new designer bed spreads at home. Oh that looks fabulous.

The car example was dumb. Why should his wife drive slower and more carefully? NOT because he said so, NOT because he holds the priesthood what a complete and utter moron. Those words would never cross my lips. You simple say your driving is causing me to FEAR for MY LIFE. I value my LIFE and don't want to die in a car crash due to YOUR careless and imprudent driving. If his wife truly loved him she would change the way she drove just for him simply because he asked.

Did anyone else feel or see this besides me? Don't get me wrong I understand unrighteous dominion but please, what power does this priesthood give over my family. nothing. If I said obey me because I have the priesthood that make no sense at all. The unrighteous dominion is with the government. Those in real power. Police, CIA, FBI bosses at work, CIO, CEO, doctors ect... those that have real power over someone, teachers at school that is unrighteous dominion, the church always looks to the poor father at home for this, what a huge mistake. Some poor priesthood guy that only has a job as a janitor has no real power to corrupt. Yes of course he could abuse his strength and over power his wife who is generally weaker in stature but come on he is not being dominating because he has the priesthood he is being dominated because he is an idiot that does not truly love his wife, he is being selfish and self centered not because he has the priesthood and now that he has it he is going to now rain down fire on his poor poor wife. It is just ridiculous.

I feel sometimes that this type of talk is for the women to feel better about themselves cause of course they never have unrighteous dominion as he said the scriptures mostly talk about men.

I think it was a bad example when there are clearly and obviously better examples than what he gave. A poor talk in my view.

This is a joke right? You are trying to get a reaction? Nice try, but no ballgame.

7cylon7:
I totally understand where you are coming from. I respect and love my husband because he is strong, firm, loving and doesn't take crap from anyone, including me. I know other men that are totally subservient to their wives and I don't respect them at all.

The Lord needs strong, firm men who stand up for righteousness.

I don't know any men around me who are practicing unrighteous dominion, but I know some bossy women who don't respect their husbands and actually order their husbands around and speak poorly of them.

Yes, most women want strong, leadership husbands, as long as they will do as they are told.

I kid you not, men get it from both ends - they are being dominant, not allowing their wife to be and equal partner in the marriage one minute and the next they are not taking enough of a leadership role in the family.

In our stake (not our ward specifically) we have had several talks at the stake level that our leaders have talked about multiple sisters making this complaint about their husbands not leading...most women get exactly the man they helped create.

Wow! I'm astonished at all the negative comments about Elder Wilson's General Conference talk. I guess it's true that people will get what they want out of a talk. As I was listening to him speak, I never once got the impression he was talking to men or referring to men when he talked about unrighteous dominion. Quite the opposite, I got that he was talking to EVERYONE, but most especially to leaders in the Church (on any level), and parents (which includes men AND women). But the very main thing that struck me was his comments on agency - that's what his talk was really about, at least in my opinion - in essence, he was reminding us of what the war in heaven was faught over and that we are all still very much in that fight.

I would encourage everyone to read his talk again with an open mind - ignore the little story he told at first, and get to the part that starts with, "This scripture says we must lead by “principles of righteousness.” Such principles apply to all leaders in the Church as well as to all fathers and mothers in their homes." - and read the rest from there. It's one of the most excellent talks on agency and parenting I've ever heard. I'm eternally grateful for a husband who keeps his covenants and leads righteously in our home - I wouldn't want it any other way - but that's not what I thought his talk was about at all. Please read it again...

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elder Wilson's talk was excellent and on point.

We must act “only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned.”

This is the crux of his message. I bet there are many dozens of examples in the Book of Mormon on this point alone...

Persuasion.

Stella Solaris wrote:Wow! I'm astonished at all the negative comments about Elder Wilson's General Conference talk. I guess it's true that people will get what they want out of a talk. As I was listening to him speak, I never once got the impression he was talking to men or referring to men when he talked about unrighteous dominion. Quite the opposite, I got that he was talking to EVERYONE, but most especially to leaders in the Church (on any level), and parents (which includes men AND women). But the very main thing that struck me was his comments on agency - that's what his talk was really about, at least in my opinion - in essence, he was reminding us of what the war in heaven was faught over and that we are all still very much in that fight.

I would encourage everyone to read his talk again with an open mind - ignore the little story he told at first, and get to the part that starts with, "This scripture says we must lead by “principles of righteousness.” Such principles apply to all leaders in the Church as well as to all fathers and mothers in their homes." - and read the rest from there. It's one of the most excellent talks on agency and parenting I've ever heard. I'm eternally grateful for a husband who keeps his covenants and leads righteously in our home - I wouldn't want it any other way - but that's not what I thought his talk was about at all. Please read it again...

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stella--- That is exactly what I got out of it. I thought of my own experiences of when I used unrighteous dominion as a parent to limit my childrens experiences...sigh....and many other things that we all are weak in.

In fact, as listened to it, I was actually thinking how perfect for all those who think Ron Paul's message of Agency and Accountability, is out of touch with the Gospel and should actually give all of us a wake up call. Elder Wilson is not the first to discuss the necessity of agency in General Conference. What I am actually amazed at, is how few actually connected this message to the Cause of Liberty.

Oh, well, I am glad I caught the vision of what the talk was meant to be.