LDS Freedom Forum

ATL Wake wrote:
I have to laugh at this attempt to make their concern appear absurd. They didn't JUST pick 1 of 613 laws. They picked one that Nephi, Isaiah, Jacob, King Benjamin, Mormon, and Moroni specifically warned against. The BOM prophets saw our day. We were warned. Some are trying to remind us of these warnings and are taking them seriously.

Frankly I am amazed at the attitude, "Well we can't save them all, so screw them all!"

What happened to throwing the starfish back into the ocean, "because it made a difference for that one."

The one law that I am referring to is the one thinker keeps quoting that every third year that the tithes should be brought to the storehouse and distributed to the poor. No where does Nephi, Isaiah, Jacob, Benjamin, Mormon and Moroni specifically say that the church should take the tithes from every three years and give them to the poor that I am aware of. Perhaps you can provide those references. What they said was that we need to have charity. No where did I say that we must "screw them." I said we can do better at this and that if if we tried our best and in effect sell everything the church has to take care of the poor it would never be enough. That is a long way from an attitude of "Screw them."

It is the role of the member to have charity or love. We show God we Love Him by loving our neighbors, this is true. But I have never seen a commandment that it is the role of the church to try to feed and heal all the poor and sick in the world. We are told to do what we can. The higher law or the two great commandments is about personal responsibility, not necessarily institutional responsibility.

I didn't realize that the starfish story was scripture. Where have the prophets ever advocated for not being charitable? Where have they ever stated that tithing is optional because you don't understand what the Council on the Disposition of Tithes do with the tithes? No one is attempting to make their concern for the poor appear absurd. The absurdity comes in when folks accuse the prophets of not being concerned, calling them to repentance, blatantly disobeying the commandments of God given to prophets in these last days, accusing them of malfeasance, darkness and sin.

I don't completely understand the reason for building the mall in question but I will continue to uphold and sustain the prophets, pay my tithes and offerings, be charitable in all its forms as I can and continue to repent. I am sure if the Lord wants to chastise the leaders of His church he will do so. Joseph said there were 4 things we must never do. Aspire, Accuse, Coerce and Force. I do not see the Lord's prophets nor a good portion of the saints doing this though there are individuals who do so. So by all means continue to aspire to their callings and accuse them of their sins, then feel free to reject them and try to coerce and force others to do the same.

ATL Wake wrote:I have to laugh at this attempt to make their concern appear absurd. They didn't JUST pick 1 of 613 laws. They picked one that Nephi, Isaiah, Jacob, King Benjamin, Mormon, and Moroni specifically warned against. The BOM prophets saw our day. We were warned. Some are trying to remind us of these warnings and are taking them seriously.

Frankly I am amazed at the attitude, "Well we can't save them all, so screw them all!"

What happened to throwing the starfish back into the ocean, "because it made a difference for that one."

Exactly and thank you for this encouraging reminder, ATLWake.
Allowing ourselves to be paralyzed with inaction & apathy because of the enormity of the problem is similar to the idea of being "luke warm" & being spit out. But I believe that religion (legion) when united to doing Christ-like work, can accomplish more together than individually & that's supposed to be the purpose. The parable of the good Samaritan is on a larger scale now. The church has been collecting a lot of tithes for many years... and the purpose of those tithes is primarily for helping those in fatal need, as is written in many scripture, but specifically in Deut 14:28-29.

Eddie Lyle wrote:The one law that I am referring to is the one thinker keeps quoting that every third year that the tithes should be brought to the storehouse and distributed to the poor. No where does Nephi, Isaiah, Jacob, Benjamin, Mormon and Moroni specifically say that the church should take the tithes from every three years and give them to the poor that I am aware of.

And where does it say that you should get up in the middle of the night with a crying new born to change & feed her?
Where does it say that you should give your umbrella and food to a homeless person?
Where does it say that we should build water wells so that people don't have to walk so far for water?

"For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is acompelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant" -D&C 58:26

Are you saying that our church believes in everything in the scriptures except for the part that 1/3 of tithes are to be given to the poor, as written in Deut 14:28-29 ?

laronius wrote:What I find laughable is that here we have a man, Thomas S. Monson (ignoring his calling as prophet for the time being), who's very life seems to be the epitome of love and concern for others and yet there are those who write him off as nothing more than a self-absorbed scoundrel.

How do you know this? By believing & worshiping every word that comes out of mouths at the pulpit?
Actions speak louder than words.

awake wrote:

Thinker wrote: I often hear in church that the law of Moses was the "lesser law."
Jesus didn't portion out part of his increase to give, he simply loved as was needed, as he went along.
Jesus taught a higher law...
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart...
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, & hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." -Matt 5

I often have to remind myself when my feelings are hurt, that it is NOT commanded that others love me, but I am commanded to love others, as myself (also to love myself - which is a challenging balance at times).
Some think that LOVE means good feelings and pleasing another, but any parent knows that love is more than that.
Love is hoping & striving for what is best, through trial & error (active faith).
Love is the serenity to accept what we can't change, courage to change what we can, & wisdom to know that difference.
That's why love is the only thing that never fails!

"It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man." -Psalms 118:8
It's also truly written that God is love (1John 4:8) and that all things/people will fail, but charity (which is the pure LOVE of Christ) will never fail!

I agree.

We are commanded to have the 'unconditional pure love of Christ', so we can be counted among the righteous.

Everlasting love is the greatest power in the universe. It is God's power. It is by love that he has performed all his mighty works and creations.

Priesthood Power is the power of God and is just 'love'. The more love we possess the more Priesthood power we gain. If we don't possess pure love it is impossible to possess any Priesthood power or authority.

Unfortunately today, it seems very few members or leaders believe in having, let alone possess, this pure unconditional love.

So true! Love is the only thing that is everlasting!
All else will fail - prophets and their prophecies will fail, churches will fail, people will fail.
Charity, the pure love of Christ, will never fail!