LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 6th, 2012, 12:55 pm**

laronius wrote: I think that is probably why Joseph Smith said to always go with the majority of the quorum because they in essence are filling the role of prophet when an official prophet/president is not in place.

Does anyone have the reference to this quote by Joseph - about going with the 'majority of the quorum'?

Because it doesn't seem that he would have thought that to be wise, given how many apostles he saw falling in his day.

For I believe Joseph knew that it is possible for even the majority of the quorum to fall.

Posted: **April 6th, 2012, 4:04 pm**

awake wrote:
laronius wrote: I think that is probably why Joseph Smith said to always go with the majority of the quorum because they in essence are filling the role of prophet when an official prophet/president is not in place.
Does anyone have the reference to this quote by Joseph - about going with the 'majority of the quorum'?

Because it doesn't seem that he would have thought that to be wise, given how many apostles he saw falling in his day.

For I believe Joseph knew that it is possible for even the majority of the quorum to fall.

From LDS.org:
William G. Nelson reported: “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”17

17. William G. Nelson, in “Joseph Smith, the Prophet,” Young Woman’s Journal, Dec. 1906, p. 543; paragraph divisions altered.

Posted: **April 6th, 2012, 5:21 pm**

karen2cruise wrote:I wish both Awake and Thinker would:

1. tell if they are "active" members of the LDS church

Yes, I am active, go to church each Sunday with my family & have several callings.
And yes, I have talked to my bishop about some concerns I have regarding the church.

and even then if

2. They will admit that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of the Lord Jesus Christ who helped restore the church in these latter-days, that Thomas S Monson is the true and living prophet of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints AND that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God.

I believe & his-story states that Joseph Smith did begin a new church.
I believe this church he started was very different than it is today.
I don't believe in worshiping prophets, nor do I believe they are not capable of making mistakes.
They are human beings, like you & me & can & do think, say or do evil at times.

If you cant, then I dont know why you are on a forum called LDSFreedom forum, unless you come to cause confusion or contention.

So, another irony... LDS "FREEDOM" forum is only for those who agree with how worshipped prophets have dictated them to think?

Being an imperfect person I know better than to criticize the church or it's leaders, as it is a path I will not follow.

Being an imperfect person, I know better than to blindly follow the church mandates or its leaders, as it is a path I will not follow.

I will not cherry pick what I will or will not follow based on my "personal revelation" as Satan has tricked me before.

"A person who will not stand for anything will fall for everything."
It makes me sick & actually scared for my & others' well being when people follow without exception.
Think about what people have done in the name of following a leader!

Your abilities to analyze, intellectualize and pontificate reminds me of Luke 18:

It's not my ability, it's Jesus' ability which I have quoted. Then again, it could be others who have written & rewritten about him.
Either way, what you think is my "ability to analyze, intellectualize & pontificate" are not MY abilities... I have been quoting what Jesus is considered to have taught & principles I believe strongly in.
I am amazed & saddened how so many in the church have come to worship prophets over God.

Posted: **April 6th, 2012, 10:52 pm**

Thinker wrote: I am amazed & saddened how so many in the church have come to worship prophets over God.

Wrong. Respect prophets. Follow prophets. We teach the song in Primary - "Follow the prophet". Perhaps you would like to ask the church to remove that song from the Primary songbook?

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 12:56 am**

I think most of us have been talking past each other. That said, Awake and/or Thinker, I'm curious why you think anyone here "worships" prophets.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 2:07 am**

I believe the problem is that some members believe 'prophets can't lead us astray'. I do not believe that is true for a minute. Mere Church history proves that is untrue, let alone that such an opinion isn't backed up by scripture.

Believing that 'prophets can't lead us astray' is just what the adversary would have us believe, for it actually sets people up to be ,in fact, easily led astray, because they stop questioning things and thinking things out for themselves.

Such 'unquestioning obedience' is like 'worship' and Prophets have warned against such.

Any member of the Church has just as much right as any investigator to question anything and everything in the Church, to prove all the different doctrines and leaders are each true or not.

For it is not true that if Joseph Smith was a prophet and the BoM is true, then everything else in the Church and everyone else must be true. People can fall, or false doctrines can and do easily creep in and be accepted by most everyone.

Heavenly Father never asks us to accept anything or anyone we don't know for sure is right and true.

We are actually commanded to question everything a prophet does or says, to make sure he is a true prophet and not a false one. To do anything less is foolishness and just asking to be led astray.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 2:37 am**

awake wrote:I believe the problem is that some members believe 'prophets can't lead us astray'. I do not believe that is true for a minute. Mere Church history proves that is untrue, let alone that such an opinion isn't backed up by scripture.

Believing that 'prophets can't lead us astray' is just what the adversary would have us believe, for it actually sets people up to be ,in fact, easily led astray, because they stop questioning things and thinking things out for themselves...

Ok, fair enough. What does 'leading us astray' look like? Where has the Lord's church gone wrong and/or where have we been led that is contrary to the Lord's will/design?

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 5:10 am**

coachmarc wrote:
awake wrote:I believe the problem is that some members believe 'prophets can't lead us astray'. I do not believe that is true for a minute. Mere Church history proves that is untrue, let alone that such an opinion isn't backed up by scripture.

Believing that 'prophets can't lead us astray' is just what the adversary would have us believe, for it actually sets people up to be ,in fact, easily led astray, because they stop questioning things and thinking things out for themselves...
Ok, fair enough. What does 'leading us astray' look like? Where has the Lord's church gone wrong and/or where have we been led that is contrary to the Lord's will/design?

Putting anyone/anything before or above Christ is being led astray. Do do we get comfortable (lukewarm/condemnation) while never seeking for more as the Book of Mormon teaches us to do?

2 Nephi 32
1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.

5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

7 And now I, Nephi, cannot say more; the Spirit stoppeth mine utterance, and I am left to mourn because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and the stiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be.

8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.

9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 5:26 am**

I love Nephi. Thank you for sharing that scripture. I have prayerfully read and studied the Book of Mormon for the tenth or eleventh time this year so far and shared a small insight very similar to your post:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 14&t=21740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Squally wrote:Putting anyone/anything before or above Christ is being led astray. Do do we get comfortable (lukewarm/condemnation) while never seeking for more as the Book of Mormon teaches us to do?

That is a general, hypothetical situation. What does 'leading us astray' look like in the church? Where has the Lord's church gone wrong and/or where have we been led that is contrary to the Lord's will/design? Please be specific. Or are you referring to us individually and not the entire church as a whole? I only ask because my question was directed at both Thinker and awake. I'm not sure if you share their points of view.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:22 am**

Mark wrote:
Thinker wrote:Mark,
Isn't the 1st commandment clear? "THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."

Look, I understand you may have believed this way your entire life, & maybe generations before you in your family have.
It's not easy to give up old beliefs ("old wine bottles") - but there is "good news" - something better!

I just read a relevant quote by Kathy Freston: "False gods will always be exposed for what they are - hollow promises of deliverance."
Don't you see, Mark?
If you trust in anything besides God (charity/love)... it will fail - prophets, prophecies - it will all fail!
Only trust in God... in GOoDness... in that which inspires to love others as ourselves.

Let me ask you something Thinker. Do you believe that Joseph Smith was in fact the Prophet Seer and Revelator in this dispensation of time that God used to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ back to the earth?

Again, I don't just believe that Joseph Smith started a church, I know it because I experience the result of it every Sunday!
I believe Joseph Smith was inspired to lead people to higher truth - but I believe the same about people like Martin Luther King Jr.
I do not believe that prophets should be worshipped. I do not believe that the church should be worshipped.
As Ezra Taft Benson said, "The church is for man, not man for the church."

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:24 am**

coachmarc wrote:I think most of us have been talking past each other. That said, Awake and/or Thinker, I'm curious why you think anyone here "worships" prophets.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:26 am**

karen2cruise wrote:
Thinker wrote: I am amazed & saddened how so many in the church have come to worship prophets over God.
Wrong. Respect prophets. Follow prophets. We teach the song in Primary - "Follow the prophet". Perhaps you would like to ask the church to remove that song from the Primary songbook?

Yes, I would, & I would also like if church leaders chose curriculum that stopped obsessing about past prophets & "church his-story" and get to the core of the gospel & of Jesus Christ's teachings.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:35 am**

Coachmarc,
When anyone places anything or anyone above God (who is Love 1John 4:8), they are worshipping false Gods.
Don't get me wrong, we all do this regularly - because we're not perfect.
But when it's doctrine or common practice in a religion to regularly refer to church leaders for truth, we can't help but be lead astray, because as Moroni 7:46 states: "Charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is th greatest of all, for all things must fail."
Similarly, Jesus taught that as we love others, we love God & the 2 greatest commandments are to love God & love others as ourselves... "ON THESE 2 COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS." -Matt 22:40

I also like Awake's resonse, which reminds me that the unquestioning obedience of prophets, is similar to what the "war in heaven" was about.

awake wrote:I believe the problem is that some members believe 'prophets can't lead us astray'. I do not believe that is true for a minute. Mere Church history proves that is untrue, let alone that such an opinion isn't backed up by scripture.

Believing that 'prophets can't lead us astray' is just what the adversary would have us believe, for it actually sets people up to be ,in fact, easily led astray, because they stop questioning things and thinking things out for themselves.

Such 'unquestioning obedience' is like 'worship' and Prophets have warned against such.

Any member of the Church has just as much right as any investigator to question anything and everything in the Church, to prove all the different doctrines and leaders are each true or not.

For it is not true that if Joseph Smith was a prophet and the BoM is true, then everything else in the Church and everyone else must be true. People can fall, or false doctrines can and do easily creep in and be accepted by most everyone.

Heavenly Father never asks us to accept anything or anyone we don't know for sure is right and true.

We are actually commanded to question everything a prophet does or says, to make sure he is a true prophet and not a false one. To do anything less is foolishness and just asking to be led astray.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:46 am**

Fair enough. I do agree that nobody should place any man above God.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:49 am**

coachmarc wrote:
awake wrote:I believe the problem is that some members believe 'prophets can't lead us astray'. I do not believe that is true for a minute. Mere Church history proves that is untrue, let alone that such an opinion isn't backed up by scripture.

Believing that 'prophets can't lead us astray' is just what the adversary would have us believe, for it actually sets people up to be ,in fact, easily led astray, because they stop questioning things and thinking things out for themselves...
Ok, fair enough. What does 'leading us astray' look like? Where has the Lord's church gone wrong and/or where have we been led that is contrary to the Lord's will/design?

This is a loaded question, that might require extensive research to give you a complete answer.
But 2 major ways I've noticed:
1. Tithes are not being given to the poor & the church leaders exploits members by making their "temple worthiness" contingent upon them paying tithes to church leaders, who then secretly hide finances. Deut 14:28-29 was purposefully left out of LDS bible indexes & dictionaries, as if to deceive members in believing that church leaders do not need to share tithes with the poor, yet we know that a true diciple of Christ looks after the poor & needy, as evident in many scriptures, & specifically in Deut 14:28-29 which states that the church/religious organization is to give 1/3 of tithes to the poor.
This is contributing to death by neglect.
Tens of thousands will die today, as they did yesterday & will tomorrow, of preventable causes.
The World Health Organization states that never before in history have there been so many starving - almost 1,000,000,000!!!

Meanwhile, church leaders have chosen to invest in a $5,000,000,000 shopping center, adding to their corporate empire.
Some of the corporations owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...
-La'ie Shopping Center
-La'ie Park
-Deseret Management Corporation
-Beneficial Financial Group
-Bonneville International
-Bonneville Interactive Services
-Bonneville Satellite
35 Radio Stations
-1 Television Station (KSL)
-Deseret Book
-Excel Entertainment
-Deseret Morning News
-Hawaii Reserves
-Polynesian Cultural Center (PCC)
-Mstar.net
-Temple Square Hospitality
-Weddings (Josph Smith MB & Lion House)
-The Inn at Temple Square (no longer - since Mall pursuit)
-Lion House Pantry
-The Roof Restaurant
-The Garden Restaurant
-Passages Restaurant
-Zions Securities Corporation
-Deseret Trust company
-LDS Family Services
-Propery Reserves Inc. (PRI)
-Ensign Peak Advisors
-Deseret Mutual Benefit Administrators (DMBA)
-Brigham Young University (BYU)
-BYU- Idaho
-BYU- Hawaii
-LDS Business College
(& more...)

2. Thinking distortions are taught in the church, which contribute to mental illness.
Utah, extremely influenced by Mormonism, leads the nation (is #1) for anti-depressant prescriptions.
Probably the most helpful psychological advice I've received is a list of cognitive distortions.
I've also considered how these are taught in church doctrine or practice:

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.
2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."
3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")
4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (ie articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically..Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)
5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.
6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.
7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.

8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")
9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)
10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)
11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)
12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.
13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.
14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life. More energy & money is given to try to help those who have died, than those who are alive.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 7:55 am**

Thinker it looks like you've done your homework. Thank you for taking the time to write it up. Now for the sake of argument you are correct. Here's an objective question. Did you receive revelation from God that all this is so?

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 8:06 am**

coachmarc wrote:Fair enough. I do agree that nobody should place any man above God.

Thank you for being a peace-maker, CoachMarc.
I apologize if sometimes, in this thread, I've let my ego get in the way.
I've often felt the spirit as I write this - & have been amazed at what comes out... that's not to say you should accept everything I write.
ALWAYS QUESTION! As Joseph Smith taught, the truth will carve itself... study, ponder & pray for yourself.
And let me explain that church leaders are NOT either ALL good or ALL evil.
They, like you & me, are a mix of both.
The church is NOT either 100% true or 100% false, but a mix of both.

PLEASE, do not think it has to be one way or the other.
I've seen families torn apart because of this "bi-polar" thinking.
IMO, with all of the issues of the church, I still think it's the best "deal" out there - to help me raise my children.
Yes, I need to correct some teachings, but I value the goodness in the church.

And I value the goodness from church leaders...
"Continuous education is our labor, our business & our calling." -Brigham Young
"The deepest expression of spirituality is love." -Robert L. Simpson
"We need to remember that though we make our friends, God has made our neighbors - everywhere. Love should have no boundary; we should have no narrow loyalties." - Howard W. Hunter
"A man filled with the love of God, is not content with blessing his family alone, but ranges through the whole world, anxious to bless the whole human race." -Joseph Smith

"Where there is a need, I personally have a responsibility to help. There is little use asking who is my neighbor; I am neighbor to my neighbor in need." -Marion D. Hanks
"To be valiant... is to take the Lord's side on every issue." -Bruce R. McConckie
"God recognizes only one justification for seeking wealth, & that is with the express intent of helping the poor." -Hugh Nibley
"Pleasure usually take the form of 'me" & 'now,' while joy is 'us' & 'always.'" -Neal A. Maxwell
"In the final analysis, the gospel of God is written, not in the dead letters of the scriptural records, but in the lives of the Saints." -Bruce R . McConkie

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 8:18 am**

I agree, whatever faults are the faults of men. Whatever we may or may not think about our leaders or the church, it is still Jesus Christ's authorized church to prepare the way of the Lord, with the authority to baptize and perform ordinances, where men are called of God by prophecy and by the laying on of hands, where people are endowed and sealed to one another by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood unto exaltation. Whatever else it is or it isn't, this is the true and living church of Jesus Christ, through which Jehovah's work in the vineyard is performed.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 10:27 am**

coachmarc wrote:... Whatever else it is or it isn't, this is the true and living church of Jesus Christ...

...Only to the extent that the church TRULY LIVES the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Jesus taught that as we love others, we love God & the 2 greatest commandments are to love God & to love others as ourselves...
"On these 2 commandments, hang all the law and the prophets." -Matt 25:40

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 10:44 am**

Granted. But also to the extent that it is where priesthood authority resides. Consider also what Nephi taught, that there are save only two churches upon the face of the land--the church of the lamb of God and the church of the devil, the whore of all the earth. I understand that being LDS (or any other religion for that matter) does not guarantee that one is of the church of the lamb of God, however it is the church where the authority to act in God's name exists and it is absolutely essential for ordinances of salvation and exaltation.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 11:53 am**

karen2cruise wrote: Wrong. Respect prophets. Follow prophets. We teach the song in Primary - "Follow the prophet". Perhaps you would like to ask the church to remove that song from the Primary songbook?

I would like to see them continually emphasize to only follow the Prophet 'in righteousness' as he is following Christ.

Joseph Smith continually warned the Saints to not follow anyone, even Prophets or apostles, if they taught falsehoods or things that don't square with the scriptures.

The Church today rarely mentions that the Prophet could be wrong at times or even fall, which thus gives the impression that he can't.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 12:23 pm**

coachmarc wrote: What does 'leading us astray' look like in the church? Where has the Lord's church gone wrong and/or where have we been led that is contrary to the Lord's will/design?

'Leading astray' IMO, would be teaching 'false doctrine' that causes people to 'sin'. Not all errors in doctrine causes people to fall into sin necessarily. But if a prophet persists in teaching falsehoods he can become unrighteous and will lose his Priesthood Keys and authority to lead.

Thus the people will be led astray if they do not have the Holy Spirit and study the scriptures to detect his errors and unrighteousness.

Thus it's possible that a prophet can be a fallen or false prophet, meaning either he 'fell' and became wicked while in office, like some Apostles did in Joseph's day or he 'deceived' his way into that position, like Elder Bennett did in Joseph's day.

We have been warned over and over today that there will be many false prophets among us today, like there were in Joseph's day, and that they will appear so righteous and wonderful that even 'the elect', the most righteous people among us, may fall for them. Certainly most all other members of lesser righteousness would probably easily fall for them too. So it's easily possible that the whole church, except a few, could believe in and be deceived by a false prophet.

Joseph Smith warned that most people fall for false prophets and consider them to be true prophets. That is a clear warning for us.

Sometimes even 'true' Prophets and Apostles teach minor errors in doctrine that don't actually cause people to fall away into sin. Even Joseph Smith was wrong at times and had to learn line upon line just like we do. He appeared to change his thinking on things as he grew in the Gospel, one example being slavery.

It appears that BY taught many things that we now know were wrong or that were not backed up by scripture or were contrary to what Joseph Smith taught. Things like: slavery, refusing to give blacks the Priesthood, Adam God theory, blood atonement, polygamy, women's equality, fairness to Indians, etc.

It is up to us to determine if a prophet or apostle is merely innocently wrong on minor issues, for everyone makes minor mistakes at times, or if he is actually fallen and teaching people to sin, or if he is a false prophet.

For Joseph Smith taught us in D&C 45 and 76, that our salvation is dependent on if we allow ourselves to be deceived or not.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 12:45 pm**

ChelC wrote: From LDS.org:
William G. Nelson reported: “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”17

17. William G. Nelson, in “Joseph Smith, the Prophet,” Young Woman’s Journal, Dec. 1906, p. 543; paragraph divisions altered.

Thank you for finding that quote for me.

It appears to be just hearsay though, and not a proven statement by Joseph Smith. I have learned to be leery of hearsay because so many false things were spread in the Church after his death, about what Joseph said and did.

So I have a hard time believing Joseph really said that, because he knew that many, if not most, of the apostles were falling while he was alive and thus I believe he knew that the majority could easily fall and lead the people astray.

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 4:04 pm**

“‘Some say that the kingdom of God was not set up upon the earth until the day of Pentecost, and that John did not preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, but I say to you in the name of the Lord that the kingdom of God was set up upon the earth in the days of Adam to the present time. Whenever there has been a righteous man on the earth, unto whom God revealed His word and gave power and authority to administer in His name, and where there is a priest of God . . . to administer in the ordinances of the gospel, and officiate in the priesthood of God, there is the kingdom of God. . . . Where there is a prophet, a priest, or a righteous man unto whom God gives His oracles, there is the kingdom of God; and where the oracles of God are not, there the kingdom of God is not.’ ( Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 271–272).

Posted: **April 7th, 2012, 4:22 pm**

"Second, in addition to the gift of the life of Christ, is the gift of His Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1:30.) There is no salvation or exaltation for us outside of the Church. Through it we receive baptism, priesthood, celestial marriage, and other vital ordinances. The Church is the organized means which God uses to establish and expand His work. We must work with it and in it, build it up, and move it forward.

We should be willing to generously give of our time, talents, and means to the Church. No matter what happens to the world, the Church will grow in strength and will be intact when the Lord comes again.

God has assured us that the Church will never again be taken from the earth because of apostasy. He has said that He is pleased with the Church, speaking collectively and not individually. (See D&C 1:30.)

The Church is true. Keep its laws, attend its meetings, sustain its leaders, accept its callings, enjoy its blessings."
President Ezra Taft Benson- Dec. 1988

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