LDS Freedom Forum

Note well whom the commandment comes from:

Ether 8:
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

Today in my prayers, I felt to pray that BYU students and the saints generally might "awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you", to be obedient to this clarion call commandment from the Lord!

Will this come up at all in General Conference this weekend??

I think we could be more effective if we prayed and fasted to know how we can help those within our reach to awaken. If one person can awaken the elders in his quorum, they might be able to awaken their families. This could turn into wards and stakes awakening, etc. I don't believe in praying for something anymore without praying to know how I can be a means for my prayer to be answered. We are the answers. We just need divine wisdom and help.

Then I came across this, worth seeing/reading:

http://awakeandarise.org/media/Warning!.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice post Dr. Jones. I agree. But I am starting to wonder if we need to awaken not as much to our awful situation but awake to our sense of our nothingness?

King Benjamin discourse. Mosiah 4

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:I am starting to wonder if we need to awaken not as much to our awful situation but awake to our sense of our nothingness? King Benjamin discourse. Mosiah 4

They could be very closely related or one in the same

I have given copies of these types of scriptures and talks by Benson, Skousen, etc....to members of my bishopric and the elders quorum presidency I serve with (I'm the 2nd counselor and our last EQ pres is now in the bishopric) and I dont think any of them have listened to the talks. I am leery about doing this in Priesthood meeting but take every opportunity to share my thoughts any other time. I integrated the GMO topic and the like when I spoke to food storage and temporal preparedness on two occasions in priesthood class and the looks on these guys were like
Same goes for Sunday School...but I am more vocal there since it is the topic of discussion at times.
In the meantime I just share my info with my HT comp and anyone else who is interested. Mostly non-members are more receptive to the message....bummer, but its a good way to introduce the gospel I guess.

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:Nice post Dr. Jones. I agree. But I am starting to wonder if we need to awaken not as much to our awful situation but awake to our sense of our nothingness?

King Benjamin discourse. Mosiah 4

Negativism won't achieve any victory! I am not a "nothingness," I am a child of God and capable of good works.

moonwhim wrote:

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:Nice post Dr. Jones. I agree. But I am starting to wonder if we need to awaken not as much to our awful situation but awake to our sense of our nothingness?

King Benjamin discourse. Mosiah 4

Negativism won't achieve any victory! I am not a "nothingness," I am a child of God and capable of good works.

I don't think nothingness is negative. It can be negative, but it can also be positive. Consider Moses. He knew he was a child of God, yet became keenly aware of His nothingness after a great 'fall'. Mosiah understood this.

coachmarc wrote:

moonwhim wrote:

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:Nice post Dr. Jones. I agree. But I am starting to wonder if we need to awaken not as much to our awful situation but awake to our sense of our nothingness?

King Benjamin discourse. Mosiah 4

Negativism won't achieve any victory! I am not a "nothingness," I am a child of God and capable of good works.

I don't think nothingness is negative. It can be negative, but it can also be positive. Consider Moses. He knew he was a child of God, yet became keenly aware of His nothingness after a great 'fall'. Mosiah understood this.

I guess "nothingness" is good if we need to humble ourselves, understanding who we are compared to God.....but this thread is about awakening others to the secret combination that has taken over our government......the fact that we are children of God and can do good works is to me the focus of this thread.

D&C 88: 81 ...and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
82 Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.

This seems to imply that if we fail to warn our neighbors, their sins which may have been prevented had we warned them could be upon our heads. For this reason I used to incorporate such warnings into lessons I'd teach in Elder's quorum. Then I was called into ward leadership and have felt that it wasn't appropriate for me to continue so directly. I give indirect hints now but I doubt that anyone who isn't already awake understands. I do pray often that those who are looking for or will accept the truth of what's happening to our country will find it and awaken though.

I prayed and fasted about something similar - that people will waken & be inspired how to help those almost 1,000,000,000 men, women and children who are starving to death. I feel humbled by the response - & how people are starting to wake up & realize how important the greatest commandments are (to love God & love others as ourselves).

It's not so simple as writing a check out for the Humanitarian donation.
When I visited the church Humanitarian center in SLC, I saw that what took up most space & effort was the clothing donations that people sorted & bunched into bundles. The other day I saw a documentary about how such free clothing donations were putting local vendors in "poor" countries out of business because they couldn't compete with "free."
Also, for several years now, the church has decided members should not know about how money is spent, but it is estimated that the church gives less than 1% to the poor. I know humanitarian missionaries who said that getting funding for water wells etc. from the church was like pulling teeth & took a long time. They decided to branch out on their own & working with other organizations.

We must study it out, ponder & pray about how best to help ourselves & others.

DrJones wrote:Then I came across this, worth seeing/reading:

http://awakeandarise.org/media/Warning!.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a good presentation to email to others, hope people here will do that.

moonwhim... "Negativism won't achieve any victory!I am not a "nothingness," I am a child of God and capable of good works." What are you talking about? Was my post negative? You obviously did not read Mosiah 4 and the words of King Benjamin. My post flew right over your head. Or should I say King Benjamin's words went over your head. No biggie though.

King Benjamin; 4 My friends and my brethren, my kindred and my people, I would again call your attention, that ye may hear and understand the remainder of my words which I shall speak unto you.

5 For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state—

I don't think king Benjamin is being negative and neither was I. Just looking to disagree. Read Mosiah 4 and than comment.

I say unto you, if ye have come to a aknowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the batonement which has been prepared from the cfoundation of the world, that thereby salvation might come to him that should put his dtrust in the Lord, and should be diligent in keeping his commandments, and continue in the faith even unto the end of his life, I mean the life of the mortal body—

7 I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the afall of Adam, or who are, or who ever shall be, even unto the end of the world.

8 And this is the means whereby salvation cometh. And there is anone other salvation save this which hath been spoken of; neither are there any conditions whereby man can be saved except the conditions which I have told you.

9 Believe in aGod; believe that he is, and that he bcreated all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not dcomprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

10 And again, believe that ye must arepent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in bsincerity of heart that he would cforgive you; and now, if you dbelieve all these things see that ye edo them.

11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have atasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, fcalling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel.

Hey moonwhim... If I were to say, "Are we not all beggars?" Would you reply to me that you are not a beggar? Nothing about king Benjamin is negative brother. Nothing! Keep attempting to find faults in my post. Could care less. Good day!

coachmarc wrote:

moonwhim wrote:

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:Nice post Dr. Jones. I agree. But I am starting to wonder if we need to awaken not as much to our awful situation but awake to our sense of our nothingness?

King Benjamin discourse. Mosiah 4

Negativism won't achieve any victory! I am not a "nothingness," I am a child of God and capable of good works.

I don't think nothingness is negative. It can be negative, but it can also be positive. Consider Moses. He knew he was a child of God, yet became keenly aware of His nothingness after a great 'fall'. Mosiah understood this.

Exactly! Well said coachmarc!

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:moonwhim... "Negativism won't achieve any victory!I am not a "nothingness," I am a child of God and capable of good works." What are you talking about? Was my post negative? You obviously did not read Mosiah 4 and the words of King Benjamin. My post flew right over your head. Or should I say King Benjamin's words went over your head. No biggie though.

King Benjamin; 4 My friends and my brethren, my kindred and my people, I would again call your attention, that ye may hear and understand the remainder of my words which I shall speak unto you.

5 For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state—

I don't think king Benjamin is being negative and neither was I. Just looking to disagree. Read Mosiah 4 and than comment.

I say unto you, if ye have come to a aknowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the batonement which has been prepared from the cfoundation of the world, that thereby salvation might come to him that should put his dtrust in the Lord, and should be diligent in keeping his commandments, and continue in the faith even unto the end of his life, I mean the life of the mortal body—

7 I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the afall of Adam, or who are, or who ever shall be, even unto the end of the world.

8 And this is the means whereby salvation cometh. And there is anone other salvation save this which hath been spoken of; neither are there any conditions whereby man can be saved except the conditions which I have told you.

9 Believe in aGod; believe that he is, and that he bcreated all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not dcomprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.

10 And again, believe that ye must arepent of your sins and forsake them, and humble yourselves before God; and ask in bsincerity of heart that he would cforgive you; and now, if you dbelieve all these things see that ye edo them.

11 And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have atasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, fcalling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel.

Hey moonwhim... If I were to say, "Are we not all beggars?" Would you reply to me that you are not a beggar? Nothing about king Benjamin is negative brother. Nothing! Keep attempting to find faults in my post. Could care less. Good day!

It seemed to me that your post was off topic and was referring to something that we on this forum should already understand.

Back to Dr. Jones original feelings and intention of the post. I think that would be a worthy thing to pray about, to awaken the Saints (and BYU students). We are already praying for that on a daily basis in our family. Our kids have tried to verbally awaken their fellow BYU friends to no avail. Glenn Beck is having a National day of prayer on May 17 ("Beck announced that on May 17th, he will ask for a national day of fasting and prayer where Americans can consolidate their faith and efforts as they seek protection and guidance from God.").


Karen

I defintely think we should pray for others to be awakened. I still pray that I might be awakened to our awful situation, even though I feel like I am much more aware of it then anyone I know. I also pray that those who work in the ways of deception and darkness will be exposed. Maybe if enough of us pray, we can make a difference. There are still way too many in the all is well in Zion camp.

DrJones wrote:Then I came across this, worth seeing/reading:

http://awakeandarise.org/media/Warning!.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the post Dr. Jones. It is beyond my comprehension that any Latter Day Saint would question that secret societies exist and are gaining control over us but as you know, the majority still mock and scorn those who raise the warning.

Thanks for the comments.

u-p-bull noted:

Same goes for Sunday School...but I am more vocal there since it is the topic of discussion at times.
In the meantime I just share my info with my HT comp and anyone else who is interested. Mostly non-members are more receptive to the message....bummer, but its a good way to introduce the gospel I guess.

I'm also vocal in SSchool as the topic comes up quite frequently in the Book of Mormon we are now studying! I counted some 50 references to secret combinations in this great volume of scripture.

My HT comp is also well aware. Funny thing, some that we home teach are helping him "awaken" also - and its not just 9/11! lots more going on that opens eyes and ears.

And two on-line friends noted to me that they accepted to be baptized! One has been baptized already -- so yes, this topic becomes a missionary tool.

Again, I will personally rejoice if the topic arises at Conference; it is a common Bk of Mormon theme. Pres. Hinckley discussed it in the Aug 2005 Ensign; Pres Packer in a more recent Ensign... August 2010.

Someone needs to PM this thread to Bluemoon5. Not that it will jug his noggin' or anything. :ymblushing:

I think one of the main reasons that the church as a whole is not awakened is the fact that our present leaders have not wanted it to happen to this point. They have gone out of their way to avoid addressing this topic in a direct manor since the days of President McKay, J. Ruben Clark and apostle Ezra Taft Benson.

Cleon Skousen tells the story of Herald B. Lee asking Ezra Taft Benson to stop tweaking the tail of the beast. Open opposition was apparently doing no good and perhaps placing the Church in danger. Had we continued on the course of open opposition to the gadianton robbers we probably would not have been allowed to do missionary work, build temples, etc, etc. Since the days of apostle Benson, not speaking out against the gadianton robbers in our midst appears to be a matter of policy.

I for one see the wisdom in the course that the church is pursuing. I suppose we will hear more about the gads after the Lord has mopped the floor with them and the Church is no longer in danger. JMHO

friendsofthe wrote:I think one of the main reasons that the church as a whole is not awakened is the fact that our present leaders have not wanted it to happen to this point. They have gone out of their way to avoid addressing this topic in a direct manor since the days of President McKay, J. Ruben Clark and apostle Ezra Taft Benson.

Cleon Skousen tells the story of Herald B. Lee asking Ezra Taft Benson to stop tweaking the tail of the beast. Open opposition was apparently doing no good and perhaps placing the Church in danger. Had we continued on the course of open opposition to the gadianton robbers we probably would not have been allowed to do missionary work, build temples, etc, etc. Since the days of apostle Benson, not speaking out against the gadianton robbers in our midst appears to be a matter of policy.

I for one see the wisdom in the course that the church is pursuing. I suppose we will hear more about the gads after the Lord has mopped the floor with them and the Church is no longer in danger. JMHO

Even Chirst fled to Egypt, to escape mortal danger, until he had matured enough to complete his mission.

friendsofthe wrote:...

Cleon Skousen tells the story of Herald B. Lee asking Ezra Taft Benson to stop tweaking the tail of the beast. Open opposition was apparently doing no good and perhaps placing the Church in danger. Had we continued on the course of open opposition to the gadianton robbers we probably would not have been allowed to do missionary work, build temples, etc, etc....

I request a traceable reference to this statement -- as I find it highly doubtful.

I personally spoke to Cleon Skousen, at a meeting in his home in October 2006 (re:9/11).
Brother Skousen said NOTHING like this at all to me, but rather -- he strongly encouraged me to speak out regarding the events of 9/11 and the 'political' implications for our country.

It's in an audio recording where Bro. Skousen talked about what would happen in the next 25 years. I think it may be available on the Latter Day Conservative web site. I think it was recorded in the late 1990's. I have it in MP3 format.

friendsofthe wrote:It's in an audio recording where Bro. Skousen talked about what would happen in the next 25 years. I think it may be available on the Latter Day Conservative web site. I think it was recorded in the late 1990's. I have it in MP3 format.

Sure would like to hear it. email: [email protected].

Bro. Skousen's advice to me was different, to say the least.

DrJones wrote:

friendsofthe wrote:...

Cleon Skousen tells the story of Herald B. Lee asking Ezra Taft Benson to stop tweaking the tail of the beast. Open opposition was apparently doing no good and perhaps placing the Church in danger. Had we continued on the course of open opposition to the gadianton robbers we probably would not have been allowed to do missionary work, build temples, etc, etc....

I request a traceable reference to this statement -- as I find it highly doubtful.

I personally spoke to Cleon Skousen, at a meeting in his home in October 2006 (re:9/11).
Brother Skousen said NOTHING like this at all to me, but rather -- he strongly encouraged me to speak out regarding the events of 9/11 and the 'political' implications for our country.

I think there is a big differnce between you speaking out and the church speaking out. I can't say why the church doesn't emphasize Seceret Cobinations much nowdays. I can only speculate, it is to keep unwanted attention away from them. I know Pres. Benson said not to expect the church to have any formal program to restore the constitution because: "it would split the church assunder and the wheat still has to grow with the tares".