LDS Freedom Forum

So a cousin I have in Lehi posted photos on Facebook of this festival he attended. Curious I looked it up.

SPANISH FORK — In a cloud of color that in 2011 made national headlines, the Hare Krishnas celebrated on Saturday and Sunday the annual Holi Fest, commonly known as the Festival of Colors.

Thousands gathered at the Sri Sri Radha Krishna Lotus Temple in Spanish Fork as bands led the crowd in the Maha Mantra: "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare."

As it is celebrated at the Lotus Temple, it is meant to be a celebration of shared life — neither religious or secular; it is a gathering of people united in their desire to celebrate the coming of spring.

Thousands gathered on a hill on the east side of the temple. Traditionally the majority of revelers have been BYU students, but as the festival has grown in popularity, it has seen a large increase in visitors from other colleges and even from other states.

From this link with video. http://www.ksl.com/?sid=19729645&nid=10 ... featured-5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article says it is not a religious celebration, but the chanting of a false god's name seems to indicate otherwise.Given that the majority of these folks are likely LDS the question arises is this worshiping false gods or just a fun spring time celebration and no more harmless than say visiting another church for a service to see what it is like or to go to a wedding or funeral?

Part of worship is rituals, whether they be super bowl, festival of colors, or sacrificing virgins on an altar. Seems innapropriate to me, or atleast very strange and weird.

Kind of like rising up in worship of the Olympics in 02. Pass the flame through every state in the Union and every town in Utah and right up to light the flame honoring the gods of wind, ice, and fire on the alter of Zeus. (Deseret News 08/19/2004 "After 1,611 Years" p A1) Then we parade our beautiful pure youth across the alter in symbolic sacrifice to that god who became Baal. Oh well, it's only good fun right? Besides look at all the money it brought to Utah. And the want to do it again?

I agree - false Gods. The sad thing is my husbands cousin - an RM and exceptional film maker made a mini movie out of it and was in the thick of it. I didn't feel the spirit when I watched it, like I have with some of the other things he's filmed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh-o5g4t ... ture=share" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eddie Lyle wrote:So a cousin I have in Lehi posted photos on Facebook of this festival he attended. Curious I looked it up.

SPANISH FORK — In a cloud of color that in 2011 made national headlines, the Hare Krishnas celebrated on Saturday and Sunday the annual Holi Fest, commonly known as the Festival of Colors.

Thousands gathered at the Sri Sri Radha Krishna Lotus Temple in Spanish Fork as bands led the crowd in the Maha Mantra: "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare."

As it is celebrated at the Lotus Temple, it is meant to be a celebration of shared life — neither religious or secular; it is a gathering of people united in their desire to celebrate the coming of spring.

Thousands gathered on a hill on the east side of the temple. Traditionally the majority of revelers have been BYU students, but as the festival has grown in popularity, it has seen a large increase in visitors from other colleges and even from other states.

From this link with video. http://www.ksl.com/?sid=19729645&nid=10 ... featured-5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article says it is not a religious celebration, but the chanting of a false god's name seems to indicate otherwise.Given that the majority of these folks are likely LDS the question arises is this worshiping false gods or just a fun spring time celebration and no more harmless than say visiting another church for a service to see what it is like or to go to a wedding or funeral?

It's my opinion that the young people who involve themselves in this are NOT doing it because they even know they are chanting the name of a "false god". (And how do we know they are involved in the chanting unless we are there and witness it?)In their youthful minds it seems to me that they think it's some kind of "fun thing to do" as they come away drenched in many, many colors.

Harmless fun?

Outside right next to a huge temple to a false god. Having a huge party outside a huge temple to a false god. Have no other gods before me? I think of it as being no different than the wicker man and burning man festivals which are for sure harmless, right.

Ya I guess the Lord would say that is harmless?

Most of the kids that go have no idea. They go for the fun. Instead of going out drinking like most college kids they go get covered with colored chalk. None of them take it seriously. One of my kids went once to see what it was all about. I have taken the kids to visit different churches over the years to see the differences, to spark dialogue. They knew we werent going to "support" that particular faith or false god.

My son's take on the fesitival is people go, and there are performances. They have an explanation of their religion and their devotion toHare Krishna (their version of the Christ). He thought it was fascinating to learn their variation of the Christ. He wasnt required to chant anyone's name. They counted down from 10 and poof the chalk went in the air.

Since I have visited religious centers of other faiths around the world, does it make me a worshipper of false gods? no. It strengthened my testimony that we , the LDS faith, have the complete truth, while those of other faiths have only partial truth. Let's not get our "shorts in a wad" about this, as my mother used to say.

natasha wrote:It's my opinion that the young people who involve themselves in this are NOT doing it because they even know they are chanting the name of a "false god". (And how do we know they are involved in the chanting unless we are there and witness it?)In their youthful minds it seems to me that they think it's some kind of "fun thing to do" as they come away drenched in many, many colors.

I sort of agree with this - I am sure most of the kids involved just thought it would be a fun thing to do now that the weather is warmer and it was an opportunity to gather a lot of youth together for an event, however, at the same time, it is sad that many or most of them probably had no idea they were participating in an event where a false god was essentially being praised. :ymblushing:

Col. Flagg wrote:

natasha wrote:It's my opinion that the young people who involve themselves in this are NOT doing it because they even know they are chanting the name of a "false god". (And how do we know they are involved in the chanting unless we are there and witness it?)In their youthful minds it seems to me that they think it's some kind of "fun thing to do" as they come away drenched in many, many colors.

I sort of agree with this - I am sure most of the kids involved just thought it would be a fun thing to do now that the weather is warmer and it was an opportunity to gather a lot of youth together for an event, however, at the same time, it is sad that many or most of them probably had no idea they were participating in an event where a false god was essentially being praised. :ymblushing:

I completely agree with your statement.

If that's considered god worshipping then I'd hate to hear the description of spending hours upon hours in front of a computer pontificating on ldsff! #-o

Good one, Shadow!

Shadow +2 :ymapplause:

When I lived in Utah I used to visit the Hari Krishna temple every once in a while to sample vegetarian foodat their Sunday Feast they'd have. This was while they were still building their more permanent temple structure and they were using an a-frame building as their temple. I was speaking to one of the devotees there about my renewed faith in the LDS church and she told me she that she liked the LDS church as far as christian churches went. She then informed me that the LDS church had given them the biggest donation out of all to build their temple. This shocked me at the time (they obviously bow down before idols in their temple), but makes more sense to me nowadays.

In this case, I don't for one minute believe the kids were "worshipping". They were just having a fun time. They do this same thing in India and it's just for fun.

I think the Hare Krishna's are good people and it is alright to visit them or participate in celebrations with them as members of the community. They also have get togethers I think on Sundays or Saturdays when it is warm outside as social activities. A good thing to remember is that The Book of Mormon is a good equalizer when visiting or participating in social activities with other religions or groups. For example, if a person were to learn about another religion for an hour then they should also study the Book of Mormon for an hour. I think this is a good rule of thumb because it helps keep a person's mind on what they believe while talking to others about their beliefs and the Book of Mormon can be a very powerful tool this way. I think it is alright to have these people do their chants in the presence of Mormon members but if Mormons would start in on doing their chants of worship with them, then they may be participating in another religious belief which could conflict with what the Mormon Church teaches. When I was a teenager I actually would visit these people on several occasions and learn about their beliefs of reincarnation, etc... It is interesting and they really don't push conversion on people like Mormons do and I don't think they subtly try to lure people into their beliefs either but they are enjoyable people to be around. I even went into their radio station, I don't know if they still have it any longer, and asked them if me and my friend who stopped by could be on the air for a while and they let us because they we were just having fun. We would also go there a lot to get really cool beaded necklaces which was kind of the style at the time. To me it was more of just a social thing or something that neighbors would do like visit and stuff, I lived in Payson at the time. I never really thought that worshiping false gods was a part of any activities I ever participated in any time I went there but it was more just to have fun. I do think that a person could worship their ways if they wanted however and so maybe if this were the case you might have a point but they really don't believe in god like other religions or even like pagans so instead of worshiping false gods I would say it would be more like worshiping a form of nature that deals a lot with reincarnation. This is really how they see things, they don't really look to a god for power for the most part but instead they meditate a lot on what type of animal they might become after mortal death and what type of animal they may have been in the past, like if they have really good sight or something they then might think they could have been an eagle who could see far distances or if they are really powerful they might have been a bear or something and the more they meditate on what their religious beliefs the greater chance they have of becoming a really cool animal and if they don't practice their religion a lot then they might end up being like a grasshopper or worm or something. Most people just think it is funny but I can see how some might become attracted to this type of thought and I think that spending at least as much time studying the Book of Mormon on those days of visitation is a very good idea as it is with any member of the Mormon Church who might visit other forms of Christianity or other religious belief. I would recommend studying the Book of Mormon on the day of visitations also and not a week or month before because the Spirit wouldn't be as strong but if it's in the same day then the Spirit can guide a person from their readings and pondering of Book of Mormon passages for that day and possibly do some analysis, research, or even simply compare the difference between the Spirit of the Book of Mormon and the power it brings to a persons soul and compare this to other religions and this can help a person build their testimony of the Book of Mormon. Following a missionary example is a good way to go because then you can even try to have an effect on them and convert them to Mormonism. This is one of the main reasons missionaries read from the Book of Mormon so much every day is because they are always discussing how other people worship. A missionary can teach 50 people in a week with different religious beliefs and when they are discussing religion they always use the Book of Mormon as an equalizer so they won't become persuaded to think differently than what the Spirit of God expresses to them while during their morning study hour and throughout the rest of the day. If they didn't do this they might forget who they represent at times but the Church makes sure the Book of Mormon is drilled into missionaries minds and it keeps them powerful in the Church. This can be a good example when attending meetings or events with other religions. So in reality every Mormon should be a missionary when they can and if they use this philosophy then going to another place of worship is alright even if it is a time of their worshiping actions and not simply a social get together, then they can explain to those who they are visiting about what they believe, build on common faiths, and discuss their testimony of the Church if it remains on a level of not creating an offensive nature against another person's beliefs and is something that should definitely not get out of hand or control to a point of creating an offensive nature towards others, such as "Bible bashing," but I guess it's sort of difficult to Bible bash with a religion that doesn't even believe in the Bible.

Thanks for the good post Philadelphiaangel.

Paul had no problem eating food sacrificed to idols because he did not regard eating the food as worshipping the deity it was sacrificed to. Nevertheless, Paul refrained from eating the food when others who might misinterpret his actions as being worship of such deities were watching in the event that he led them into the sin of worshipping false gods. If the kids aren't worshipping Krishna or being persuaded to regard Krishna as equivalent to Christ, there is no problem with them throwing chalk in celebration of spring any more than engaging in any other Pagan holiday celebrations such as Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.

EclecticLibertarian wrote:there is no problem with them throwing chalk in celebration of spring any more than engaging in any other Pagan holiday celebrations such as Christmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.

Yep. So true.

I'm pretty sure Christmas, which celebrates the birth of Christ, and Easter, which is a holiday for when Christ died on the cross, are Christian holidays and I can't think of any pagan religion connected with Halloween.

Jesus was born in the Spring. The holiday on Dec 25th was a pagan holiday to welcome back the sun (it's the first day of the days growing longer).

Easter is a mixture of pagan and resurrection. Even the name Easter is an alteration of, I believe it is Ishtar. The bunnies and eggs are symbols of paganism.

Halloween was when people dressed up to scare away the evil spirits. It was the eve before the day of the dead.

Why do the Mormon church leaders have an official Christmas devotional every year to talk about the birth of Christ. You never see a general authority at the Christmas celebration say that it is good to meet with everyone to welcome back the sun, they clearly state that the reason they are there is to celebrate the birth of Christ, even though he was born on April 6th. You are getting way to involved in the deeper meanings of things that aren't related to pagan religions. The Hara Chrishnas or whatever clearly have a definition of what they worship and being involved in one of their ceremonies I think is quite different than doing something like going to a Mormon Christmas devotional at temple square in Salt Lake. You should admit this because it is the truth, this is the way society functions. Just because Christmas was originally a German celebration, it has become much more and definitely has many Christian symbols of representation that pagan religions do not. If this is your belief then at Christmas time you should leave Christ out of your life except for what your normal daily routine entails because it isn't a part of what you believe Christmas to be, unlike the rest of the Christian world. Instead maybe you should go to a festival where they worship the return of the sun or whatever, I think they still do this on Pluto with Socrates and the other pagan aliens. The word "Christmas" has origins as a compound meaning Christ's mass.

You are right about Halloween though, it incorporates traditions from pagan harvest festivals and festivals honouring the dead. But even Halloween has been reformed with major Christian influence by the Christian holy days of All Saints' Day.

Philadelphiaangel wrote:Why do the Mormon church leaders have an official Christmas devotional every year to talk about the birth of Christ.

Because the rest of the Christian world has adopted the custom of the Great and Abominable, er, I mean the Catholic Church in celebrating Christ's birth on December 25th.

Philadelphiaangel wrote:You are getting way to involved in the deeper meanings of things that aren't related to pagan religions. The Hara Chrishnas or whatever clearly have a definition of what they worship and being involved in one of their ceremonies I think is quite different than doing something like going to a Mormon Christmas devotional at temple square in Salt Lake.

Most definitely. However, do you put up a Christmas tree? Do you engage in the hanging of stockings by the Fireplace and wait for Santa and/or his elves to bring gifts or leave out food for his Reindeer? Yes it's true that Pagan Winter Solstice Festival was coopted and incorporated by the Catholic Church and its Protestant children, but it doesn't change the fact that it began as a Pagan holiday and many Christians still engage in many pagan rituals. How about the lighting of candles on Birthday cakes?

The point is, too many people get too caught up in the appearance of things without any understanding. If the kids aren't worshipping Krishna or praying to VIshnu, there's no harm in throwing chalk up in the air. If on the other hand they are... well then maybe you should not attend and instead teach them why you don't want them praying to the false deities of other religions.

A Random Phrase wrote:Jesus was born in the Spring. The holiday on Dec 25th was a pagan holiday to welcome back the sun (it's the first day of the days growing longer).

Easter is a mixture of pagan and resurrection. Even the name Easter is an alteration of, I believe it is Ishtar. The bunnies and eggs are symbols of paganism.

Halloween was when people dressed up to scare away the evil spirits. It was the eve before the day of the dead.

i thought june 25 dec 25 were when closest / furthest from the sun

isnt march 21st sept 21st longest and shortest days

AussieOi wrote:

A Random Phrase wrote:Jesus was born in the Spring. The holiday on Dec 25th was a pagan holiday to welcome back the sun (it's the first day of the days growing longer).

Easter is a mixture of pagan and resurrection. Even the name Easter is an alteration of, I believe it is Ishtar. The bunnies and eggs are symbols of paganism.

Halloween was when people dressed up to scare away the evil spirits. It was the eve before the day of the dead.

i thought june 25 dec 25 were when closest / furthest from the sun

isnt march 21st sept 21st longest and shortest days

March and September are the equinoxes - the day when daytime and nightime are closest to equal in length.

June solstice is longest day in the northern hemisphere and the shortest in the southern. December solstice is the opposite.

Perihelion is the day when the earth is closest to the sun, and in 2012, that day was Jan 5.

Aphelion is the day when the earth is farthest from the sun and occurs in early July each year.

Perihelion and Aphelion are not responsible for the seasons. Perihelion occurs roughly 14 days after the winter solstice, and Aphelion about 14 days after the summer solstice.

On or about June 20th is the Longest day of the year.
On or about Dec. 20th is the shortest.

Earth is closest to the sun around Jan. 1st and farthest around July 1st.