Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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7cylon7
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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The giants of those day were actually the Dinosaurs not humans or aliens. The dinosaurs were killed in the flood. Someday we will find out why our carbon dating does not work. for now it looks like it does work and they were here millions of years ago. I can't wait to find the real truth. This faith stuff is fun and all but once we are proved and then can gain the real truth will be a fun day of learning.

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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7cylon7 wrote:The giants of those day were actually the Dinosaurs not humans or aliens. The dinosaurs were killed in the flood. Someday we will find out why our carbon dating does not work. for now it looks like it does work and they were here millions of years ago. I can't wait to find the real truth. This faith stuff is fun and all but once we are proved and then can gain the real truth will be a fun day of learning.
Cyclon, where did you get your information that the giants were the dinosaurs?

According to Genesis 6 the giants were the Nephilim (the fallen), mighty men, men of great stature, men of renown, or men of name. These giants existed before, during, and after the sons of God went to the daughters of man and had children.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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7cylon7 wrote:The giants of those day were actually the Dinosaurs not humans or aliens. The dinosaurs were killed in the flood. Someday we will find out why our carbon dating does not work. for now it looks like it does work and they were here millions of years ago. I can't wait to find the real truth. This faith stuff is fun and all but once we are proved and then can gain the real truth will be a fun day of learning.
I don't remember specific references, but when I was studying science, I found out that things like lightning strikes, or even a plant being under a high-power line could make something appear to be older than it is. As I understand it, the carbon dating assumes a consistent level of something (radiation?) over the last million years, but there's no guarantee that that was the case.

Since the book of Job describes two very large, frightening animals (one apparently water-dwelling and the other apparently land-dwelling), I would suspect that Noah had some kind of dinosaur babies/eggs on board - but that the drastic change in the weather/climate after the flood killed them off (along with the help from humans, who seem always willing to make species disappear, especially if they fear them). Some say the stories in our past about dragons were actually stories about dinosaurs.

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serenitylala
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by serenitylala »

I've been asked in PM to comment concerning this thread...


Today is April the 6th, so happy Atonement/Christ's birthday and Happy anniversary of the Church. :)

Alright, now for the Watchers. They were fallen men, but fallen men of a higher degree of glory. Apparently they violated a celestial law, and were sentenced to a lower degree of glory here, not having violated the law of denying the Holy Ghost, therefore lost their celestial standing but not enough to land them in outer darkness... yet.

Now, this is a hard concept or I should say a difficult doctrine to understand and is often hidden, because the idea of a celestial being falling after a form of resurrection, terrifies most people.
But it is a true principle that you can fall at any step in the Plan... For instance, it says in the scriptures that 'if God were to lie than He would cease to be God' and that is true in every sense of the word. That is why our most high God and Father is perfect, because He continually chooses to keep the laws of Elohim, among the vast other concourses of laws. Hence why He and the Savior are such amazing examples they are for us.

As for the watchers, they violated something significant to get them to fall from their previous glory to end up on the earth as "watchers"... The term "watcher" was originally associated with the assignment they were, and the good ones are given.

The word to watch or to be a watchman in Hebrew is Neph-i, or interestingly Nephi... which is the root for the word Nephilim... which means large children of the Watchers.

Now, during the days the watchers were running amok on the earth were the days of Enoch. Even in the Pearl of Great Price it talks about the giants watching from him from afar. The wickedness spread by these watchers was profound and never before seen, this is because they were taking higher laws and principles... as mentioned in earlier posts by others... the greater more sacred things of the Lord, using them to pretend to be gods again or once more. They in a sense wanted what they once had and were after their indiscretion forbidden to have... which is the continuation of eternal lives through progenity and seed.

Also, the women they took as wives and there were many of them, (these men lived plurality to the extreme) were slated to be given to other men which were righteous... Wives are considered by God the Father to be the highest gifts a man could receive.

Now through these "unholy unions" as the secular world would call them, but the Lord prefers to refer to them as unsanctioned and disobedient... they formed a generation of cannibalistic giants ("of great renown" they called their own children).

This resulted in a desperate need by the line of Seth and Adam's righteous children to keep their lines pure Adam lineage and to avoid corruption by marrying anyone with Watcher lineage. This had to do directly with priesthood lines. This is why when Noah was born, and he glowed with light and spoke from the womb because the Spirit was so strong in him from infancy, that his father panicked and accused his wife of having an affair with a watcher. They had to get Enoch to determine the lineage through prophecy of the child Noah.

The watchers were, for their crimes while upon the earth... sentenced to be sealed up in a prison somewhere upon this earth until the last days when the "great day" of Satan's "power" occurs and they are released for a season... That is that Book of Revelation reference to the pit being opened and things being released.

I don't understand why they weren't sentenced to outer darkness or given the same punishment as Satan, for their actions were similar, but I do know that they still have bodies and power given to them which is destructive and profane... just as Satan has "power and priesthoods."

I was about to describe the watchers to you, but I have been stopped by the Spirit of the Lord. That has already been mentioned elsewhere and to go into the details of these creatures is to steer away from the things of the Lord. It suffices me to say that they were fallen from grace. They fell and great the fall was thereof, no fall was greater save that of perdition... the original perdition. And that is where the outer darkness lies, and they are not yet sentenced to there, neither are the evil spirits that satan reigns over cast there until the end of the millennium when their judgment is brought upon them.

I was going to comment on the "aliens" thing, but I'll just leave it at that. There is no need to debate the "aliens" concept, because "aliens" is a new age or science term that doesn't apply here except to say that something that isn't of your own nation or planet or kindred is considered alien or "gentile".

Be careful of how much you speak of these things, the watchers, they are a dark and disturbing subject that the Lord hasn't revealed much about for reasons... one of Noah's grandson's was punished severely for finding and reading and professing the words of the watchers that he found upon a stone generations after the flood. Some secret combinations should never see the light of day, save to understand that they exist.

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Jerry J Fletcher
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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The question to ask is why would they be sent to THIS earth if indeed the case is as you have stated?

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serenitylala
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by serenitylala »

All are given "assignments"... but perhaps this is for the same reason as why THIS earth was the place wicked enough to crucify the Savior.

Anyway... That is a very good question.

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Jerry J Fletcher
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by Jerry J Fletcher »

That hasn't happened on other earths? Or in other words, is there posterity of Adam on other planets? Is there more than one Christ or did Jesus suffer for the worlds without number as well?
And he cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne ... ang=eng#20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And these things doth the Spirit manifest unto me; therefore I write unto you all. And for this cause I write unto you, that ye may know that ye must all stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, yea, every soul who belongs to the whole human family of Adam; and ye must stand to be judged of your works, whether they be good or evil;
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm ... ang=eng#19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Jerry J Fletcher
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by Jerry J Fletcher »

Another thought. This dovetails in with Ben's comments in this thread - http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 14&t=22060" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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serenitylala
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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Jerry J Fletcher wrote:That hasn't happened on other earths? Or in other words, is there posterity of Adam on other planets? Is there more than one Christ or did Jesus suffer for the worlds without number as well?

Moses 1:34
And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
"Adam" is a "calling." There are more than one "Adam". Each planet has to have one.

As for Christs? Well that is part of the doctrine of continuation of eternal lives and being a Savior is a calling as well. Jesus Christ created numberless and countless worlds that He atoned for.

There are watchers on other worlds as well... good and bad. Being a "watcher" is a form of calling that you can either magnify or ... well, "not magnify" (putting it way too mildly).

Apparently, the ones that came here AND did this mess that sparked the flood, were fallen. I just don't understand why they are sealed up somewhere on this planet in a prison of sorts. Why not send them somewhere else? I hear Mars is good this time of year. ;)

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Jerry J Fletcher
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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serenitylala wrote:
Jerry J Fletcher wrote:That hasn't happened on other earths? Or in other words, is there posterity of Adam on other planets? Is there more than one Christ or did Jesus suffer for the worlds without number as well?

Moses 1:34
And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
"Adam" is a "calling." There are more than one "Adam". Each planet has to have one.

As for Christs? Well that is part of the doctrine of continuation of eternal lives and being a Savior is a calling as well. Jesus Christ created numberless and countless worlds that He atoned for.

There are watchers on other worlds as well... good and bad. Being a "watcher" is a form of calling that you can either magnify or ... well, "not magnify" (putting it way too mildly).

Apparently, the ones that came here AND did this mess that sparked the flood, were fallen. I just don't understand why they are sealed up somewhere on this planet in a prison of sorts. Why not send them somewhere else? I hear Mars is good this time of year. ;)
Jesus the Christ created numberless and countless worlds that He atoned for - do you have a reference for that thought?

Thank you for the reference on Adam.

I'm familiar with the new age version of watchers. I had a co-worker write a novel based around that concept as well as Old Testament references that I thoroughly reviewed. Do you have references on latter day revelation concerning them?

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serenitylala
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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Jerry J Fletcher wrote:
serenitylala wrote:
Jerry J Fletcher wrote:That hasn't happened on other earths? Or in other words, is there posterity of Adam on other planets? Is there more than one Christ or did Jesus suffer for the worlds without number as well?

Moses 1:34
And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
"Adam" is a "calling." There are more than one "Adam". Each planet has to have one.

As for Christs? Well that is part of the doctrine of continuation of eternal lives and being a Savior is a calling as well. Jesus Christ created numberless and countless worlds that He atoned for.

There are watchers on other worlds as well... good and bad. Being a "watcher" is a form of calling that you can either magnify or ... well, "not magnify" (putting it way too mildly).

Apparently, the ones that came here AND did this mess that sparked the flood, were fallen. I just don't understand why they are sealed up somewhere on this planet in a prison of sorts. Why not send them somewhere else? I hear Mars is good this time of year. ;)
Jesus the Christ created numberless and countless worlds that He atoned for - do you have a reference for that thought?

Thank you for the reference on Adam.

I'm familiar with the new age version of watchers. I had a co-worker write a novel based around that concept as well as Old Testament references that I thoroughly reviewed. Do you have references on latter day revelation concerning them?
There isn't much "LDS" information on the Watchers outside of what is in the uncannonized book of Enoch. Only those that have had experience running into them or have been told by vision or received the information through the Holy Ghost have heard more than that.

But as a whole, the Watchers are a pretty dark subject: Not the "feel good movie" of the year so to speak. Therefore, we don't discuss them much, except to say let the 144,000 deal with them. We have too much to worry about with the adversary as it is. The Watchers are an entirely different ballgame that we really shouldn't play.

As for the reference on the Savior [a much better and happier subject ;) ]: the references to His stewardship to numberless creations all over the D&C and the Pearl of Great Price. For instance in Moses, the Word is Christ. And countless worlds were created through the Word.

Also, in Abraham and in the temple endowment, the Savior is responsible for heading up the creation of this planet... wherein He comes Lord of the planet as Jehovah in the Old testament as He is called.

Therefore for every planet that He creates, He is given stewardship over and is responsible for---which part of that responsibility is to be the Savior for those worlds. The doctrines surrounding this are all contained in the D&C.

But here is the whole kicker, no amount of references or LDS scholars are going to amount to one single witness of the Holy Ghost. The best place to get all information from is the Lord. :) The only difference between Joseph Smith (whom the Lord revealed some of the most profound doctrines to) and everyone else is just three things: determination to the keep the commandments, asking the best questions, and having the faith to know that he will receive an answer. :)

I still am working on the "asking the best questions" part... that I am not that good at. The rest: I'm too stubborn not to be determined, and the Lord "upbraideth not" when a person asks Him for information.

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Jerry J Fletcher
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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serenitylala wrote:There isn't much "LDS" information on the Watchers outside of what is in the uncannonized book of Enoch. Only those that have had experience running into them or have been told by vision or received the information through the Holy Ghost have heard more than that.

But as a whole, the Watchers are a pretty dark subject: Not the "feel good movie" of the year so to speak. Therefore, we don't discuss them much, except to say let the 144,000 deal with them. We have too much to worry about with the adversary as it is. The Watchers are an entirely different ballgame that we really shouldn't play.

As for the reference on the Savior [a much better and happier subject ;) ]: the references to His stewardship to numberless creations all over the D&C and the Pearl of Great Price. For instance in Moses, the Word is Christ. And countless worlds were created through the Word.

Also, in Abraham and in the temple endowment, the Savior is responsible for heading up the creation of this planet... wherein He comes Lord of the planet as Jehovah in the Old testament as He is called.

Therefore for every planet that He creates, He is given stewardship over and is responsible for---which part of that responsibility is to be the Savior for those worlds. The doctrines surrounding this are all contained in the D&C.

But here is the whole kicker, no amount of references or LDS scholars are going to amount to one single witness of the Holy Ghost. The best place to get all information from is the Lord. :) The only difference between Joseph Smith (whom the Lord revealed some of the most profound doctrines to) and everyone else is just three things: determination to the keep the commandments, asking the best questions, and having the faith to know that he will receive an answer. :)

I still am working on the "asking the best questions" part... that I am not that good at. The rest: I'm too stubborn not to be determined, and the Lord "upbraideth not" when a person asks Him for information.
I confess to being highly skeptical of "the watchers".

Another question - if the Savior has created worlds without number as you suggest (the Savior for those worlds) then you are saying that all of those souls had to wait for this earth experience where He obtained the keys to death and hell in order for them to progress?

Revelations 1:18

Or is it another situation of the Father and Son being one in purpose (endless) and the worlds without number are referring to other Christs and other Plan of Salvation(s)?

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serenitylala
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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It's a combination of both other Christ's and our Christ helping create many worlds.

Yet this is a subject that very few understand the depth of and I am not one of those few. Heavenly Father has not seen fit to give me deeper explanation of this, He has offered me other areas of spiritual understanding that relate more to female aspects of doctrine.

As for the watchers, unfortunately they are real. Sigh. It's sad but true... Any thing that has intelligence can choose to fall at any step in progression.

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Jerry J Fletcher
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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serenitylala wrote:It's a combination of both other Christ's and our Christ helping create many worlds.

Yet this is a subject that very few understand the depth of and I am not one of those few. Heavenly Father has not seen fit to give me deeper explanation of this, He has offered me other areas of spiritual understanding that relate more to female aspects of doctrine.

As for the watchers, unfortunately they are real. Sigh. It's sad but true... Any thing that has intelligence can choose to fall at any step in progression.
I have no claim on any depth of understanding. With the knowledge I have been given at this point though I see the possibility of endless cycles of the Plan of Salvation. I think we see a hint of that in Lorenzo Snow's comment - "As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become." Also in Brigham's comment about Father, Son, and Grandson that Ben eluded to in the thread linked to previously. Although as I am learning I am wondering if there must needs be a line that is perfectly obedient that is capable of being sacrificed. The Lamb of the flock that is without blemish. While the rest of us may attain unto those characteristics it appears (obviously) that we are not initially so. Thus like cycles or generations in a family there is cycles or generations of the Plan of Salvation.

So to get back to what I think is the calling of Adam or the calling or office of Christ, I tend to think that Jesus the Christ's sacrifice pertained to all of the posterity of Adam with reference to this earth and this cycle of the Plan of Salvation. Or how else could the keys to death and hell be passed on from one to another if there were one and only one sacrifice for the world's without number? Just my thoughts.

I'll take your word on the watchers as I don't see any holes in your logic.

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serenitylala
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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Don't take my word for it, ask Heavenly Father for a witness of these things. :-)

But yeah, you pretty much got a good understanding of the doctrine of continuation of eternal lives.

As for the infinite nature of the atonement, I couldn't even begun to know how far reaching it is. But I do know that there are other men that achieve the calling of Savior's (some succeed others fail such as the fact that lucifer was slated to be a savior after Jesus Christ but he fell).

Part of the process to become like God the Father, is to be an Adam and also a Savior. So therefore our Savior Jesus Christ achieved the highest eternal goal which is one of the main reasons why we should emulate Him. He literally is what we should all hope to be.

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Simon
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by Simon »

Hey serenitylala,

Thank you for sharing your ideas.. I must confess that what you wrote about the watchers e.t.c. is something that I have thought about now for quiet a while as a theory... From what I found out, the watchers are truely real and it is right that people should not get into it too much.. I feel it's important to understand a few things, considering the near future events and to not get deceived by things that will happen to humankind... but as you say... do it with the lord.

The only logical explanation from an lds view would be that these watchers have been men from another glory, and that resurrected beings from other worlds take part in gods plan, also regarding our earth.

Something that I find interesting, is that the whole chapter 32 of Ezekiel talks about a watcher ( at least in the germanbible it's called that way ) .. and here wacher means prophet... So, it makes sense, that men with high responibilitys are also called watchers.

I often wondered why the church doesn't say anything about it... and in a way I wished they would talk about it as a few other christian churches do.. but on the other hand, I also can see and understand why such information has been kept back to us for reasons.

I think it is important to understand that the issue of aliens e.t.c. has much to do with deception, and with the book of revelation, and with the events that take place bevor christ is comming back... Most important will be to have the holy spirit as guide and to trust in our Saviour.. He surely is in controle of things.

You said you have been asked in PM to talk about it.. what does that mean ??? :)

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by notjamesbond003.5 »

Stella Solaris wrote:This is a really good book to read on the subject - it pretty much covers every aspect you can think of - and yes, his conclusion (and mine, as well) is that what many call "aliens" are indeed of the devil.

Aliens & UFO's - Messengers or Deceivers? by James Thompson (LDS)

http://www.amazon.com/Aliens-UFOs-Messe ... 807&sr=8-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stella-

I did get this book.
I'm perusing it now, it's interesting.

I didn't realize even a few LDS ppl have been abducted, some even more then once etc.

Hmm..

Dunno what to think.

njb

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Simon
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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If there wouldn't be any purpouse in it, god would not allow it to happen. Mayby bad entitys need the chance to do bad, so that punishment becomes possible at all.. On the other hand there are so many bad things that happen and where we don't understand the why.. but no matter how hard some challanges may be, they might just prepare us for a greater assignment that we might get one day...

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by HeirofNumenor »

Or the whole concept of watchers as expressed on this thread is a mix of demonic manifestations (1/3 kicked out of Heaven) and over-eager agnostic/Kabbala mysticism masquerading as scripture.
Remember what the Lord told Joseph smith in D&C 91 about the Apochrypha.

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by Tribunal »

HeirofNumenor wrote:Remember what the Lord told Joseph smith in D&C 91 about the Apochrypha.
That's interesting! So should the Book of Mormon be considered Apocrypha since the definition of Apocrypha in the Bible Dictionary is:
"Sacred [maybe to the Mormons!] or hidden [like under a stone in a hill]. By this word is generally meant those sacred books of the Jewish people which were not included in the Hebrew Bible [like the Brass Plates]."

You need a better understanding of Section 91. The Lord was communicating this directive to Joseph for a reason. It was more of a directive for Joseph to prioritize and focus, and not get side-tracked.

Now, back to the discussion....

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by HeirofNumenor »

bs answer Tribunal. the warning from the Lord was referring to the interpolations of men (verse 2), and that statement that it was not impotant to translate the Apocrypha.
the Book of Mormon is clearly in the highest class of scripture.
D&C 91 also applies to the other Psuedepigraphal writings (Nag Hammadi, Book of Enoch, etc).
I mention this as many here are relying on the Book of Enoch for scriptural backing of giants > Nephilim > watchers > fallen celestialized beings. The Books of Enoch referenced are not the records mentioned in D&C & in Moses.

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by HeirofNumenor »

i would agree though with the concept of whatt here have said of seeing creatures being demons/ 1/3 kicked out of Heaven with Lucifer.

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by Tribunal »

HeirofNumenor wrote:bs answer Tribunal. the warning from the Lord was referring to the interpolations of men (verse 2), and that statement that it was not impotant to translate the Apocrypha.
the Book of Mormon is clearly in the highest class of scripture.
D&C 91 also applies to the other Psuedepigraphal writings (Nag Hammadi, Book of Enoch, etc).
I mention this as many here are relying on the Book of Enoch for scriptural backing of giants > Nephilim > watchers > fallen celestialized beings. The Books of Enoch referenced are not the records mentioned in D&C & in Moses.
Someone needs to do a little more research into the history of the Book of Mormon. I would start by learning more about the people from which the Book of Mormon came from. Good hunting!

And you are wrong about Section 91.

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Simon
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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

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I agree that we have to be carefull with the apocrypha, there is much error in it, and I would never use them as a scriptual backing for the topic we have here, but I recognize it as a historical text, that has some truth to its story. The thing about the nephilim e.t.c. is that traces of them are found all around the world. You can go into greek mythology where it talks about te titans ( giants ) that have been thrown down to tartarus.. The word Tartarus is not directly found in the bible, but instead the word tartaroo (ταρταρόω, "throw to Tartarus") a shortened form of the classical Greek verb kata-tartaroo ("throw down to Tartarus") 2 Peter 2:4.

In almoust every ancient culture it talks about simliar storys, including these giants, the flood, strange beings that came down from heaven, may they be called nephilim, anunaki, greys or whatever.. The evidence that strange things really happened is overwhelming, especially when we consider that even the bible and our modern day scriptures also mention them.

So... it's not just the apocrypha that has to be considered here.. you can take almoust any ancient writing and find something that you can link to this story. And with all writings we have to deal as it is layed down in D&C 91 .. we have to read them with discernment and with the spirit.

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Re: Are Space Aliens actually Demons?

Post by Tribunal »

Section 91 of the Doctrine and Covenants is not meant for you or for me but for Joseph Smith. Brother Joseph was working on the Bible and found that some of the content contained the Apocrypha. He [Brother Joseph] inquired of the Lord whether he should look at the Apocrypha as well and was told not to. He [Brother Joseph] published the answer to his prayer in Section 91. Read the history behind Section 91 and all that Brother Joseph was going through at that time. It was a critical time for Brother Joseph, and the Church, and he should not have gone on any tangents, but should only have focused on the task assigned to him.

Section 91 of the Doctrine and Covenants was meant for Brother Joseph for a particular reason, it was not meant for us. People may try and apply it to everyone, but that is their opinion, and not based on fact. Now is a different time. We should be researching, studying, and learning from Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, and past cultures and histories, to learn as much as they can about God, and His relationship with His children.

There is so much out there and it is incredible information to learn about. So many people want to control others by saying "you shouldn't delve into a particular subject unless God gives permission".

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