Church's new City Creek Mall Plaza Complex commercial on TV

[Sariel]

Is there any verification that the Church is using its employees to spam the net in favor of the mall?

I'd be interested to know as well. Usually someone will ask Denver and he will answer as best he can. When asked about the source about tithing info he posted he said:

In response to a question about the source of information regarding the church's tithing investment system, I have confirmed that information from three sources in the church offices, therefore put it up because it was accurate. But I keep confidences, and sources are not disclosed unless they want to be disclosed.

My guess is this source will be similar. Probably nothing we can verify unless we know someone we trust that works at the church offices.

[kathyn]

With all my heart I support the Brethren in their decisions. I am positive that the City Creek Center was the result of mighty prayer; and for anyone of us to assume another stance is evil speaking of the Lord's anointed. We don't know all the reasons why the City Creek Complex needed to be built, but the Lord does and I know it's part of His plan. At some future date we'll probably see the wisdom in this endeavor, even though we might not see it yet. Why don't we give the Brethren the benefit of a doubt, in this case and quit the criticizing?

[A Random Phrase]

I am positive that the City Creek Center was the result of mighty prayer

I wonder if the Brethren would be surprised at this perception among the people. We are told NOT to be commanded in all things, so why should the Brethren be commanded in all things?

[juniper]

It's obvious to me that the spirit truly leads this church. I have witnessed it at the ward and stake levels. And it always starts through "a matter of prayer". The brethren meet weekly to receive the spirit and to make all the nessicery decisions for the church. What a responsibility they have! As hard as it is for a bishop to lead a ward, I can't imagine the heavy mantel the brethren must feel. So don't criticize them, instead pray for and sustain them!!

[kathyn]

A Random Phrase, I am certain that a project this big and important was prayed about.

[shadow]

I think the fact that Denver Snuffer is posting that speaks volumes as to it's (lack of) credibility.

I'm sure Snuffer and many of his followers thought Pres. Eyring was either an idiot or a liar after his priesthood session talk. I hope at least some of Snuffers followers had second thoughts regarding the strange path they've been wandering.

[Juliette]

Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet
President Ezra Taft Benson


First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works.

Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.

Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.

Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or diplomas to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.

Sixth: The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture.

Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.

Eighth: The Prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.

Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter—temporal or spiritual.

Tenth: The prophet may well advise on civic matters. When a people are righteous, they want the best to lead them in government. Alma was the head of the Church and of the government in the Book of Mormon; Joseph Smith was mayor of Nauvoo and Brigham Young was governor of Utah. Isaiah was deeply involved in giving counsel on political matters and of his words the Lord himself said, “Great are the words of Isaiah.” (3 Ne. 23:1.)

Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.

Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—The highest quorum in the Church.

Fourteenth: The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

[Like]

Of course, the stores are all closed on Sunday, because that would be hypocritical of us to allow shopping at our mall on the Lord's day. Whew. I'm glad all is well in Zion! She certainly is prospering!!

The restraunts and grocery store will still be open if you wanted to go hang out on Sundays:

City Creek Center may mean shopping and food for residents, but its economic impact extends into millions in tax revenues, thousands of jobs and a new draw for conventions.

The opening of City Creek Center is expected to be a boost to Utah's economy, and even on the one day a week the retail stores in the center are closed, people still milled around the center's restaurants and Harmons grocery store.

The project's biggest restaurant, The Cheesecake Factory, was packed with patrons Sunday . Since the restaurant opened, there have been at least 150 names on the two and a half hour long waiting list, according to Priscilla Urquides, a hostess at the restaurant.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1973072 ... d=queue-20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love Cheesecake Factory's warm apple crisp =p~

[Mark]

I think the fact that Denver Snuffer is posting that speaks volumes as to it's (lack of) credibility.

I'm sure Snuffer and many of his followers thought Pres. Eyring was either an idiot or a liar after his priesthood session talk. I hope at least some of Snuffers followers had second thoughts regarding the strange path they've been wandering.

Don't count on it Bro. Once all that "wisdom" kicks into high gear there is no turning back. Besides Pres. Eyring is only a lowly prophet subject to human errors and mistakes. He probably even approved of the city creek complex. Get a rope! )

[Col. Flagg]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

[Mark]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

So Col. you have determined in all your wisdom that Nephi was referring to Pres. Monson and Pres. Eyring and Pres. Uchtdorf and all those Brethren who serve in the quorum of the 12 and the seventies quorums and the Presiding Bishopric of the church when He said:

"They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up."

I know a guy in Manti who would love to talk to you Bro. His name is Jim Harmston. He used to use this scripture and many Isaiah verses in Chapter 28 when referring to Pres. Hinckley and his counselors. He is looking for men just like you that he can mold. If your wife is cute he will like you even more. :ymparty: I hear he has openings in his church's leadership quorums. Wake up Bro and smell the postum. You are falling into the adversaries snare by continuing this foolishness of disparaging the Lords annointed in such a degrading way. Listen to their addresses in conference. Do you honestly feel these men are puffed up with pride and have lost the spirit? @-)

[patriotsaint]

The good Col needs to go back and review Elder Holland's talk from yesterday. He is freaking out over what appears (to him) to be a problem in the 9th hour and if he is not careful, he will end up throwing his coin in the master's face.

[Col. Flagg]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

So Col. you have determined in all your wisdom that Nephi was referring to Pres. Monson and Pres. Eyring and Pres. Uchtdorf and all those Brethren who serve in the quorum of the 12 and the seventies quorums and the Presiding Bishopric of the church when He said:

"They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up."

I know a guy in Manti who would love to talk to you Bro. His name is Jim Harmston. He used to use this scripture and many Isaiah verses in Chapter 28 when referring to Pres. Hinckley and his counselors. He is looking for men just like you that he can mold. If your wife is cute he will like you even more. :ymparty: I hear he has openings in his church's leadership quorums. Wake up Bro and smell the postum. You are falling into the adversaries snare by continuing this foolishness of disparaging the Lords annointed in such a degrading way. Listen to their addresses in conference. Do you honestly feel these men are puffed up with pride and have lost the spirit? @-)

Mark, President Benson stated in GC many years ago that the church was under condemnation from the Lord because we, as a whole, were not truly Christ-like as we should be and in the last 20 years, the corporate arm of the church has grown into a beast and would be considered a Fortune 500 company if it were a true corporation (truth be known, the actual name of the church is 'The President of the Corporation of the Church' - when we incorporated, this was the name we incorporated under and, in fact, the title 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' is actually a trademark under the corporation. As such, how can we, as members, be a member of a trademark? I'm not trying to disparage here, just revealing the facts as they are. Don't believe me - look it up for yourself. Thus, we essentially have two branches of the church - the corporate branch and the religious branch, but the corporate branch is what is exerting the most control right now and that's pretty obvious (sad as it is).

[Mark]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

So Col. you have determined in all your wisdom that Nephi was referring to Pres. Monson and Pres. Eyring and Pres. Uchtdorf and all those Brethren who serve in the quorum of the 12 and the seventies quorums and the Presiding Bishopric of the church when He said:

"They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up."

I know a guy in Manti who would love to talk to you Bro. His name is Jim Harmston. He used to use this scripture and many Isaiah verses in Chapter 28 when referring to Pres. Hinckley and his counselors. He is looking for men just like you that he can mold. If your wife is cute he will like you even more. :ymparty: I hear he has openings in his church's leadership quorums. Wake up Bro and smell the postum. You are falling into the adversaries snare by continuing this foolishness of disparaging the Lords annointed in such a degrading way. Listen to their addresses in conference. Do you honestly feel these men are puffed up with pride and have lost the spirit? @-)

Mark, President Benson stated in GC many years ago that the church was under condemnation from the Lord because we, as a whole, were not truly Christ-like as we should be and in the last 20 years, the corporate arm of the church has grown into a beast and would be considered a Fortune 500 company if it were a true corporation (truth be known, the actual name of the church is 'The President of the Corporation of the Church' - when we incorporated, this was the name we incorporated under and, in fact, the title 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' is actually a trademark under the corporation. As such, how can we, as members, be a member of a trademark? I'm not trying to disparage here, just revealing the facts as they are. Don't believe me - look it up for yourself. Thus, we essentially have two branches of the church - the corporate branch and the religious branch, but the corporate branch is what is exerting the most control right now and that's pretty obvious (sad as it is).

You ARE trying to disparage here Bro. That you can't see that is sad. You are in essence calling the Brethren who serve in the high counsels of the church corrupt greedy corporate stooges. You are besmirching their names and their honor and their integrity. Wake up man!

[ATL Wake]

[

You ARE trying to disparage here Bro. That you can't see that is sad. You are in essence calling the Brethren who serve in the high counsels of the church corrupt greedy corporate stooges. You are besmirching their names and their honor and their integrity. Wake up man!

Forgive Truth "because he sins differently than you."

[Mark]

[

You ARE trying to disparage here Bro. That you can't see that is sad. You are in essence calling the Brethren who serve in the high counsels of the church corrupt greedy corporate stooges. You are besmirching their names and their honor and their integrity. Wake up man!

Forgive Truth "because he sins differently than you."

You obviously don't understand ATL. The Col. is the son I never had. I have stewardship rights in this case. Now with you its a different story..

[A Random Phrase]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

Considering the mocking tone here, I'd emphasize the last part of 2 Nephi 29:13 and add 1 Nephi 8:27, 33.

[Mark]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

Considering the mocking tone here, I'd emphasize the last part of 2 Nephi 29:13 and add 1 Nephi 8:27, 33.

Oh my. This whole thread has been filled with a constant barrage of accusations and mocking directed toward the character and decisions made by those men who have been called to high positions of leadership in this church but according to your perception it is actually the defenders of these Brethren who are guilty of doing all the mocking aimed toward those "righteous" folks here busily involved in ripping the Brethren to shreds. Now I have heard everything. Beam me up Scotty. 8-|

[Col. Flagg]

Isaiah 28 (cross reference with 2 Nephi 28:13). Also see D&C 84:55-59.

Considering the mocking tone here, I'd emphasize the last part of 2 Nephi 29:13 and add 1 Nephi 8:27, 33.

Oh my. This whole thread has been filled with a constant barrage of accusations and mocking directed toward the character and decisions made by those men who have been called to high positions of leadership in this church but according to your perception it is actually the defenders of these Brethren who are guilty of doing all the mocking aimed toward those "righteous" folks here busily involved in ripping the Brethren to shreds. Now I have heard everything. Beam me up Scotty. 8-|

Mark, we're not mocking - our concerns are sincere and honest - OK, here's an analogy for you - what if the church announced tomorrow that they had made the decision to get into the theme park business and would be dropping $100 million dollars to invest in, say, a Six Flags for Salt Lake City in order to help 'revitalize' the area, attract even more tourists and to 'preserve the image and beauty' of Salt Lake. You'd be perfectly OK with that without having any doubts in your mind and simply accept that there must be a 'higher purpose' for it?

[Mark]

Mark, we're not mocking - our concerns are sincere and honest - OK, here's an analogy for you - what if the church announced tomorrow that they had made the decision to get into the theme park business and would be dropping $100 million dollars to invest in, say, a Six Flags for Salt Lake City in order to help 'revitalize' the area, attract even more tourists and to 'preserve the image and beauty' of Salt Lake. You'd be perfectly OK with that without having any doubts in your mind and simply accept that there must be a 'higher purpose' for it?

Let me put it this way Bro. If the united voice of the Brethren decided to build a city on the moon I would look for every opportunity to try and support them in their desires and goals. I have a firm and abiding testimony through the spirit that these Prophets are men of God inspired to do a great work in these latter days. If they feel something should be done to further the work of the Lord prior to his coming that is good enough for me. When their decisions are made as a united body all arguments cease in my mind. I have faith that they are about the Lords business. I fully believe time will bear that out.

[kathyn]

Truth Be Known, I'm seriously worried about you. You're continually questioning the Brethren about what they are doing with their stewardships and I find that to be very troubling. Do you honestly think it's your job to steady the ark? Why don't you let the Lord take on this burden. It's not our stewardship; we have enough on our plates without worrying about every decision the Brethren make. Trust in the Lord and stop fretting over things that aren't your responsibility.

[Gideon]

Mark and kathyn, well said!

[ATL Wake]

Do you honestly think it's your job to steady the ark?

The brethren are not the ark.

This is what many find disturbing, the equating of man to God.

[EclecticLibertarian]

When a vote is called to sustain one's leaders or a decision of one's leaders, is this because the body of the Church has the power to override the decisions of the Brethren? Or is it merely a formal display of acceptance or loyalty and allegiance?

[karen2cruise]

In a ward or stake setting, if there was an objection given to not sustain, the person(s) objecting are requested to meet with those in charge and discuss their objection, after the meeting. It rarely happens, and usually the outcome has been the sustaining is upheld. The most vivid recollection of an objection to this process in General Conference was at the height of the ERA movement (Equal Rights Amendment). This person was later excommunicated and her husband divorced her.

A sustaining vote means more than approval. It is then an commitment to help the person(s) sustained. So if you sustain a Relief Society president, and she asks you to help in some capacity or other, your commitment is to help her.