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reese-could you please give the source of this quote? Thanksreese wrote:linj2fly here is some more information about the kingdom of God that might be helpful.CITIZENSHIP IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD
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An indepth study of the Kingdom of God and citizenship in that kingdom soon reveals a complex of related requirements, institutions, structures and offices of which the church is only a portion. There are four basic questions that every person in quest of the truth must seek to answer:
1. What is the kingdom of God?
2. What are the qualifications for citizenship?
3. How is citizenship conferred?
4. What are the blessings, powers and privileges?
THE FIRST QUESTION: What is the kingdom of God?
There is no simple answer to this question and therefore no simple definition for the Kingdom of God. We must define the kingdom as it exists in various situations.
There is always some representation of the kingdom of God on the earth.
1. In the depths of apostasy it may be no more than a single author¬ized person, in which case he could be viewed as the kingdom of god on earth (TPJS 271). He's not the whole kingdom, he's only a part of it. And so it has been through most of the earth's history. Sometimes the extant part of the kingdom is only a small group of people, a remnant, or a church, but one day the stone shall roll forth to fill the entire earth as Daniel foretold (Dan 2:31 45).
2. Some say the LDS church is the kingdom of God. That statement is largely inaccurate. It is only a portion of the kingdom even though, as at present, it's all there is of the kingdom on the face of the earth. One might ask what evidence there is for this conclusion. The evidence is:
a. The book of Revelation Chapter 12 speaks of a woman that brings forth a child. In Joseph's inspired version, Rev. 12: the woman is identified as the church, and the child as the kingdom of God. Why did Joseph add these identities if not to assure us that the kingdom of God grows out of the church but is a separate entity.
b. In Jesus's discussion with Nicodemus (Jon 3:3 5) he makes it plain that one must be born of the water (baptism of water) and of the Spirit (baptism of fire) to enter the kingdom of God. Most people in the church do not even know what the baptism of fire is. If we do not know what it is, we have not experienced it; hence simply becoming a member of the church does not constitute citizenship in the kingdom of God. There are some who have been born again and they alone constitute the citizenry of the kingdom of God on earth.
c. When Joseph Smith implemented the fullness of the kingdom of God (which he did, but the fullness was soon lost to us) the organization was as follows:I had to take the diagram out as it would not show correctly.
The kingdom of God exists eternally and will eventually reign supreme on the earth. This is Zion. For the present however Zion is confined to the pure in heart who, having been baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost, are born again and enter the kingdom of God per Jon 3:3 5. Zion, the full kingdom of God, exists even now but is only visible and tangible to those who are born again, those to whom the Kingdom is given as expressed in D&C 29:1 8, 38:7 15 & 45:1.
THE SECOND QUESTION: What are the qualifications for citizenship?
The qualifications for citizenship in the kingdom of God are few and rewarding within themselves. There will be temporal sorrow in the natural man, but eternal rejoicing in the spiritual being, the rightful heir and that is the reward. The Qualifications are:
• Repentance Jesus taught that the kingdom of God is within us (Luk 17:21). Locked away, deep within us, is a prisoner, an exile of the kingdom of God, a rightful heir; his domain seized by a usurper, the natural man, who corrupts that domain with worldliness. From prison the rightful heir pleads with his dominion,"cast out the usurper! repent! and accept me." Repentance is the highway to the kingdom of God (III Nep 9:22). Not just to stop doing what we shouldn't and start doing what we should, but to change our minds and our desires. To love everyone and hate the world, to have no will born of the flesh but to have the mind and the will of God. Desiring his desires ourselves.
• Knowledge of God Joseph Smith once said, "If we do not God we do not know ourselves." and if we don't know ourselves we certainly don't know what we shall be nor where we're going. We may have some vague or general idea like the "Celestial beings in the Celestial Kingdom" but such vague concepts have not the power to compel us beyond our worldly penchants. When we truly understand the revel¬ations of the scriptures we will throw away the world, strip our¬selves naked of worldly "stuff", see the world as the restraining prison it really is, and hate it. We shall long for the kingdom of God and pray pleadingly, unceasingly for its advent in our lives. Consider the deep significance of the following scriptures:
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. (Jon 17:3).
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is. (I Jon 3:2).
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God and the spirit of God dwelleth in you"? (I Cor 3:16 17).
... as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God. (II Cor 6:16).
. . . . yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples..." (D&C 93:35).
• A broken heart and contrite spirit Inwardly our feelings and our attitudes must be reconciled with the divine nature. We must be humbled in total aware of our nothingness before God (Mosi 4:2 5&11), and viewing our worthless and fallen state become broken hearted for our sins and repent. "But blessed are the poor who are pure in heart, whose hearts are broken and whose spirits are contrite for they shall see the kingdom of God coming in power and great glory unto their deliverance. (D&C 56:17 18). This is one of the two great sacrifices required. "And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost (III Nep 9:20 also 12:19). (also II Nep 2:7 & D&C 56:18).
• Sacrifice of all earthly things The second great sacrifice required is the sacrifice of all things stipulated in "The Lectures on Faith" Lecture 6 par. 7: All material things, honors of men, desires of the flesh. If the previously mentioned sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit has been accomplished this sacrifice will be accomplished, without thought or calculation, and it will not seem to have been a sacrifice at all; for we shall hate the world and all of its trappings, its honors and its substance.
It is apparent from the above that the qualifications for citizenship in the kingdom of God, for the baptism of fire and for the spiritual rebirth are the same. The gate to the straight and narrow path to eternal life spoken of by Nephi (II Nep 31:13 21) is also the gate to the kingdom of God just as Jesus assured Nicodemus (Jon 3:3 5).
THE THIRD QUESTION: How is membership conferred?
Citizenship in the kingdom of God is conferred by ordinances, ordination, instruction, covenants, and sealing.
• Ordinances: the second anointings administered by mortal hands in the temple (Ref. temple drama "... called up and anointed kings and queens, priests and priestesses) and the baptism of fire adminis¬tered by the Lord personally (III Nep 12:1).
• Ordination for men and women: Kings and queens, priests and priest¬esses (ref. Temple drama, Rev 5:10, TPJS p. 370, D&C 76:52 56) in the Holy Order of the Priesthood (II Nep 6:2, Alma 4:20, 5:44 & 13:6 12). This ordination is administered by the Lord personally (D&C 50:17 & 26 30, 84:38 42). See also D&C 77:11, ordination of the 144 thousand.
• Instruction: God will personally teach us and administer the oath and covenant of the priesthood (D&C 84:38 42 & 48).
• Sealing: by the Holy Spirit of Promise (D&C 76:52 53, 88:3).
THE FOURTH QUESTION: What are the blessings, powers and privileges?
For those to whom the kingdom is given there are a number of marvelous benefits to be realized:
The spiritual gifts become common (Moro 10:8 26, 84:62 76 &35:8 14)
• The truth of all things (Jon 14:26, I Jon 2:20 & 27, II Nep 32:3 5, Hel 9:41, Eth 12:21, Moro 10:25, D&C 39:6, 93:28)
• Possess all things (D&C 50:27 28, 76:55 59, 78:19 22)
• Membership in the church of the firsrborn (D&C 76:52 54, 77:11, 107:18 19)
• Zion and Zion's economy even now (D&C 64:33 36). The Lord admonish¬es us to seek the kingdom where all of our temporal needs shall be fulfilled (Mat 6:19 34 & III Nep 13:19 34). But the laborer in Zion must labor for Zion (II Nep 26:31), we cannot serve two masters (Mat 6:19 24, III Nep 13:19 24.
Oops...im sorry i misattributed that post reese :ymblushing: thanks for responding!reese wrote:I will get back to you with a link. It is simple really. At the top is Jesus Christ, under him is Joseph Smith(as President of the high priesthood), under Joseph is an "exculsive priesthood council probably 6 in number"(not defined well historically). Then under these three it is divided into two arms. One being the ecclesiastical arm of the kingdom with the president of the church and the quorum of the 12 apostles. The other arm being the political arm of the kingdom with a presiding councilman and the council of fifty.linj2fly wrote:Thanks col...do you have a link so i can look at the diagram?
The truth is, many of our message board postings are opportunities for all of us to pull out our little soapboxes and prove our ignorance to others. My postings in the past only proved to myself how little I knew, so I decided to stop reminding myself.Glenn wrote: Some have made this forum their own tower of Rameumptom. Some of us (including myself) may have done it inadvertently.
So true Gruden; at times aren't we all. I have even been told that my special contact lenses do a poor job of hiding my reptilian eyes...gruden2.0 wrote:The truth is, many of our message board postings are opportunities for all of us to pull out our little soapboxes and prove our ignorance to others. My postings in the past only proved to myself how little I knew, so I decided to stop reminding myself.Glenn wrote: Some have made this forum their own tower of Rameumptom. Some of us (including myself) may have done it inadvertently.
Still, the fixation here of wolves and false prophets remains high, as always. I have never understood that obsession. Of course, there used to be a poster here who posted all kinds of elaborate explanations on occult topics, and her threads always had high view counts and people were sad to see that poster go. Nevermind people (including lurkers) were constantly exposed to subjects we are better off without. Funny how that works sometimes. The most worrisome things are the things we notice the least.
I think we're all wolves and false prophets here, almost without exception. Heck, after six years in my ward my bishop still won't let me give a Sacrament talk. My wolfish grin probably clued him in from the start.
Yes, it was written by a man named James Custer. He has written several books. You can find his website online. This is a essay he wrote, #28. His wife will send you his essays if you e-mail her from the website. I don't know if I agree with everything he writes, but he has a very good understanding of many things.MrScience wrote: reese-could you please give the source of this quote? Thanks
Isn't this the truth Gurden. Until we know for sure our standing before God, it would do us well not to assume anything!Gruden2.0 wrote: I think we're all wolves and false prophets here, almost without exception. Heck, after six years in my ward my bishop still won't let me give a Sacrament talk. My wolfish grin probably clued him in from the start.
I am glad we have a quailfied judge, like you, to help us in this matter. Maybe you can assist Christ in determining who should be burned as tares.kingbmm wrote:Apostasy is apostasy...you guys can cook it up any way that you'd like, but eventually you're just going to regurgitate the same apostasy.
The greatest thing is that there are many who participate on this forum who recognize the wolves...you're not fooling anybody.
Real Defenders of the Faith can always discern the wheat from the tares.
Well I've felt no love from Glenn either, so what? And I never pointed any fingers at Glenn nor did I call him a sheep or a wolf. Man, all this because I posted a scripture stating that being a sheep is a good thingMatthew.B wrote:There is no love in this comment, or in your previous comments to Glenn in this thread.shadow wrote:Hmm, so you tout that you're not some silly little sheep but that you're a "free thinker" (whatever that isGlenn wrote: I am painfully aware of my weaknesses, including pride. However, your inability to recognize the pride in your own words is both astonishing, yet expected.) ) then when the words of the Lord are placed before you as an FYI that say being a "sheep" is actually a good thing you call me out as being prideful? Why, because I posted a scripture that contradicted your "status"? The funny thing is you then you go on some lengthy diatribe about how the saints in Utah are lousy. I guess you find what you're looking for O:-)
I love Fridays! :ymparty:
If you want to know who the real wolves are, it is those who make a mock of their brother, or exploit their weaknesses, or treat them lightly or cruelly; a wolf magnifies himself against his brother and says to his soul "bow down, that I may go over". A wolf makes a mountain out of a molehill, a big deal out of a small offense, and wrinkles smooth discussion.
Real wolves will come in all shapes and sizes and in every degree of public piety imaginable... Some wolves and shepherds say very similar things- one can only tell them apart by their fruits.
Before any of us begins pointing fingers, we need to look inward and see if we have offended our brothers or sisters today and ask their forgiveness with a sincere heart.
Wolves are those who refuse to do this. Sheep do this. There is a point in every disciple's life where they are in serious doubt as to the status of their own soul, and whether they are really the in the fold of the LORD or not. Mocking Glenn for what he's said is Satan's way of doing things, not Christ's.
Oh well, usually people get offended for worse things. But hey, he's free and clear to mock and point fingers at others (same as you do!) so I suppose hypocrisy is alive and well! If my response to Glenn was prideful what do you think your response to me was? Educational? ) I see it as prideful and extremely hypocritical which typically doesn't describe you.That was not my reply at all. What I actually said was this:HeirofNumenor wrote:I recently posted a comment on Pure Mormonism blog re: Denver Snuffer . His reply was that he agrees with most of Snuffer's controversial views on the LDS Church.
Yikes. In the face of all the evidence, they continue to deny that Joseph practiced and taught plurality of wives.After mentioning above that I am a fan of the writings of Denver Snuffer, someone wrote, "But doesn't Denver Snuffer believe that Joseph lived polygamy & that it was ok for him to do that?"
I can appreciate a good deal of a person's body of work while disagreeing with him on some things.
Besides, the mistaken idea that Joseph Smith sanctioned polygamy is so ingrained in our teachings that I don't fault anyone for assuming it's true who has not been exposed to the other side of the story. This is the case with a lot of our early history; we tend to not question things that no one else seems to have questioned.
Todd Compton wrote a marvelous book detailing the miserable ends of many of the women who had devoted themselves to a life of plural marriage. Contained within the book is the assumption that some of these women had actually been married to the prophet at one time because they said so. But that is simply because Compton accepted what most of us have assumed was a "given", that these women really HAD been married to Joseph Smith at one time.
What we actually know about them for a fact is that they had been plural wives to later Church leaders, and that was what had made their lives miserable in the end, not any imaginary association they might have had earlier with Joseph Smith.
George Smith's recent book, "Nauvoo Polygamy" is another example. Was there polygamy taking place in Nauvoo? Most certainly. Did that prove that the prophet, who continually denounced it, was actually a secret perpetrator? No. It merely affirms that the practice was going on.
Of course it was being practiced in the city. It had been brought in by polygamous converts from the Cochranite faith, and certain people close to the prophet were being converted to this way of life over his objections.
Plural marriage was a fact of life in the early church. That is not questioned. The real question is whether or not it was sanctioned by Joseph Smith. My research convinces me it was not.
It's so clever, but the more you read the scriptures, the more obvious the lie becomes that is so popular today, perhaps magnified here. It sure is pleasing to the ear to hear that you don't have to listen to Gods servants, but it is actually a form of idol worship, making yourself and your will the God.They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god
Of course. I just don't see how administrative issues intersect with repentance issues.Original_Intent wrote:You can't preach repentance if you don't teach people what they need to repent of.