LDS Freedom Forum

There is an occurrence of one of the prophets describing Jesus quite clearly. I think it is David O McKay - he said that Jesus parted his hair in the middle - it was a chestnut brown and at the shoulder a darker color like oriental black - the description goes on but I can't find it anymore. I used to have a software program years ago from the 1990s that I could find anything on but it is outdated now and doesn't run on current computers. I am so lost without it. Looking on the net and on lds.org didn't help - does anyone know where I can find this description referenced? Thanks so much.

Hello Sister G!

I remember hearing this or reading about it on my mission some 20 years ago and this painting is supposed to reflect that description.

SisterG wrote:There is an occurrence of one of the prophets describing Jesus quite clearly. I think it is David O McKay - he said that Jesus parted his hair in the middle - it was a chestnut brown and at the shoulder a darker color like oriental black - the description goes on but I can't find it anymore. I used to have a software program years ago from the 1990s that I could find anything on but it is outdated now and doesn't run on current computers. I am so lost without it. Looking on the net and on lds.org didn't help - does anyone know where I can find this description referenced? Thanks so much.

Go ask Denver Snuffer which picture he prefers.

Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

Azriel wrote:Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

I've been surprised at appearances. I've avoided making any effort to provide a description of the Lord's appearance. In the early church there are passing references to the Lord's "round face" from which I can affirm they saw Him. Most of the LDS artwork depicting "Jesus" are pretty good likenesses of Lucifer. I think there is wisdom in not making an image of the Lord because most of the images are quite misleading.

(Mormon Stories comment)

Azriel wrote:Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

How would he know?

gkearney wrote:

Azriel wrote:Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

How would he know?

DS saw Him. He doesn't expound on it, except to say, "I know He lives, for I saw Him."

And we can see Him, too. (See D&C 93:1)

A Random Phrase wrote:

gkearney wrote:

Azriel wrote:Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

How would he know?

DS saw Him. He doesn't expound on it, except to say, "I know He lives, for I saw Him."

And we can see Him, too. (See D&C 93:1)

From his statement he would have had to have seen Satan as well.

D&C 93:1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;


D&C 88:68 Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.


D&C 84:20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.


D&C 67:10 And again, verily I say unto you that it is your privilege, and a promise I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears, and humble yourselves before me, for ye are not sufficiently humble, the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual.
11 For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.
12 Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind.

2 Nephi 32:6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. (The Book of Mormon is for us, remember?) And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.
7 And now I, Nephi, cannot say more; the Spirit stoppeth mine utterance, and I am left to mourn because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and the stiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be.

Alma 12:34 Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins; and these shall enter into my rest.
35 And whosoever will harden his heart and will do iniquity, behold, I swear in my wrath that he shall not enter into my rest.
36 And now, my brethren, behold I say unto you, that if ye will harden your hearts ye shall not enter into the rest of the Lord; therefore your iniquity provoketh him that he sendeth down his wrath upon you as in the first provocation, yea, according to his word in the last provocation as well as the first, to the everlasting destruction of your souls; therefore, according to his word, unto the last death, as well as the first.
37 And now, my brethren, seeing we know these things, and they are true, let us repent, and harden not our hearts, that we provoke not the Lord our God to pull down his wrath upon us in these his second commandments which he has given unto us; but let us enter into the rest of God, which is prepared according to his word.

Alma 13:10 Now, as I said concerning the holy order, or this high priesthood, there were many who were ordained and became high priests of God; and it was on account of their exceeding faith and repentance, and their righteousness before God, they choosing to repent and work righteousness rather than to perish;
11 Therefore they were called after this holy order, and were sanctified, and their garments were washed white through the blood of the Lamb.
12 Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God.
13 And now, my brethren, I would that ye should humble yourselves before God, and bring forth fruit meet for repentance, that ye may also enter into that rest.
14 Yea, humble yourselves even as the people in the days of Melchizedek, who was also a high priest after this same order which I have spoken, who also took upon him the high priesthood forever.

Read in the JST Genesis about Melchizedek, as well as in Alma 13.

gkearney wrote:From his statement he would have had to have seen Satan as well.

No doubt. Moses had a run-in with Satan. So did Joseph Smith. When one end of the spectrum opens to you, the other end does as well. There must be a balance, it seems. The devil has to have his chance to persuade and destroy.

A Random Phrase wrote:

gkearney wrote:

Azriel wrote:Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

How would he know?

DS saw Him. He doesn't expound on it, except to say, "I know He lives, for I saw Him."

And we can see Him, too. (See D&C 93:1)

Denver Snuffer is a persuasive author, but he is just a man, and not even a prophet or an apostle. Putting your trust in him is one way of putting your trust in the arm of flesh. (2 Nephi 4:34).

The software that SisterG refers to may have been the LDS Collectors Library, and it was merged into what is now gospelink.com

When I was on the mission in the South, he looked like this:

But I lean more towards him looking like this:

A Random Phrase wrote:

gkearney wrote:

Azriel wrote:Snuffer wrote most LDS paintings of Christ are actually a pretty good likeness of Lucifer.

How would he know?

DS saw Him. He doesn't expound on it, except to say, "I know He lives, for I saw Him."
And we can see Him, too. (See D&C 93:1)

dido, no comment :ymhug:

Gideon wrote:Denver Snuffer is a persuasive author, but he is just a man, and not even a prophet or an apostle. Putting your trust in him is one way of putting your trust in the arm of flesh. (2 Nephi 4:34).

Exactly. He is just a man. Even if he has had the experiences he says he has, even if Jesus gave him work to do and he is doing that work, he is just a man. I trust what he says because of what the Lord told me, not because I "follow" this man. And, even at that, I don't automatically assume that everything he says is 100% accurate. - But, because the Spirit has told me that this man has seen who he has seen, I would believe him when he speaks (however briefly) about what the Savior looks like and what the devil looks like. To have an audience with one is to have an audience with the other, if one receives the gift of the Second Comforter. To reach to the heights, one must also sink to the depths. (See Moses' experience in the Pearl of Great Price.)

Apart from a very select handful of people (aside from during his earthly ministry) I do not believe any of us know what he looked like.
If I were he (not pretending to be here) would I prefer a world with people of many colours to see me as a white anglo looking character, or consider me as they are?

It's possible it doesn't matter because a celestial person may not look like any human race, but a race of its own, one a mortal cannot see in its true form. I believe Christ would want us to see him as he actually is. While it's probably our curiosity that brings up this subject more than anything, it would be helpful to have an accurate image in mind when pondering about the life and works of Christ.

I read the "Heaven is For Real" book that is a second hand account of a 4 year old boy's near death experience. I have certain hesitations about the "grooming" of the story by the father of this boy, but the one thing that did strike me is the picture he said his son (some years later) recognized as the closest image to Jesus:


FWIW.

I have also thought about what Azriel is implying. In a pure spiritual, resurrected form, who knows what our bodies will look like. Our telestial bodies may be a "type and a shadow" of what we will inherit, being able to manipulate our physical bodies in total, whereas now we can only manipulate a small portion of it (muscles). With our bodies obeying our thoughts and commands, it truly makes us gods in embryo. I too believe our Christ has total command of all the elements that compose His body. The promise is there for us too as well.

Would Christ appear Japanese for the Japanese after death? Would He appear African for Africans? There's no scripture saying either way, but it's curious to think about. Of all the near-death experiences I've read, the common thread is having a "supervisor" be with you during the life review. One said He appeared as a guru on the mountain top, another claimed he was the Buddha, an atheist account said Christ appeared as a "being of light" and offered to appear more human if desired.

I think whatever form we, as individuals, identify as Christ, there He will be also.

No one seems to have asked this question (If I missed it somewhere, I'll kindly accept my lashes) so I will. Snuffer says The Church's pictures of The Savior looks like the actual apperance of Satan. Does he say WHY this is so? In other words: why would The Church use pictures that looked like satan to represent The Savior?

Azriel wrote:It's possible it doesn't matter because a celestial person may not look like any human race, but a race of its own, one a mortal cannot see in its true form. I believe Christ would want us to see him as he actually is. While it's probably our curiosity that brings up this subject more than anything, it would be helpful to have an accurate image in mind when pondering about the life and works of Christ.

Thank you. That makes sense.

durangout, he didn't say why. In fact iirc, he didn't say they looked like Satan, but that they looked more like him than they did like Jesus. I would suspect that the answer is ignorance: we don't know what he looks like so we make an image of Him based on pure guesswork.

Edited:
Post resurrection descriptions vary.

durangout wrote:No one seems to have asked this question (If I missed it somewhere, I'll kindly accept my lashes) so I will. Snuffer says The Church's pictures of The Savior looks like the actual apperance of Satan. Does he say WHY this is so? In other words: why would The Church use pictures that looked like satan to represent The Savior?

Very good question. I think it clarifies his views of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

Gideon wrote:

durangout wrote:No one seems to have asked this question (If I missed it somewhere, I'll kindly accept my lashes) so I will. Snuffer says The Church's pictures of The Savior looks like the actual apperance of Satan. Does he say WHY this is so? In other words: why would The Church use pictures that looked like satan to represent The Savior?

Very good question. I think it clarifies his views of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

Agreed. Proof enough for me not to read his materials.

I always thought Satan looked like this- On a side note, in 1992 the man pictured above was awarded the Teaching Award in Continuing Education at BYU He is still a guest lecturer there from time to time =;

shadow wrote:I always thought Satan looked like this-

ballam.jpg

On a side note, in 1992 the man pictured above was awarded the Teaching Award in Continuing Education at BYU He is still a guest lecturer there from time to time =;

=))