LDS Freedom Forum

It has been suggested in another private forum that those who wish to study the Book of Mormon as friends on this forum get started. I thought I'd take the initiative to go ahead and get started as I am a Sunday School teacher and already teaching the Book of Mormon. I'll get us caught up and then we can be prepared for each Sunday's classes in our respective wards and branches wherever everyone lives. For the time being, if you haven't yet and wish to participate (lurking is fine too, of course), get up to speed. By tomorrow everyone should have read through 2 Nephi 30. If you're not, that's ok, I'll start a thread soon that covers the first lesson of the year for those who want to get started and then we'll catch up with the lesson manual within the next couple weeks or so.

Feel free to download the Book of Mormon on audio from lds.org:

http://www.lds.org/mp3/display/0,18692,5297-41,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rather than download each book individually there's a link, top center, where you can download the entire book in one shot. Then listen to it from the beginning whenever opportunity arises, whether your driving, jogging, working, if work allows, doing chores, etc. Where I work, I can listen to it all night (graveyard shift) so that's almost 8 hours of nonstop listening. I can get through the entire book in about 30 hours. So every 4 days, I'm listening to it again. Then when I get home, I take notes of things that impressed me and things I need to ponder further, etc.

So stay tuned for a new post, within the next day or two for Lesson 1, "The Keystone of Our Religion" here in the Gospel Discussion forum where I'll outline the lesson and things to discuss. If you're actively attending class this year, then this will be a review until we get caught up. If you're interested in participating, then please read the introductory material to the Book of Mormon, including the title page, the introduction, the Testimony of Three Witnesses, the Testimony of Eight Witnesses, and the Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

Most importantly, let this be an opportunity to grow. As we prayerfully dive in, get to know the people of the Book of Mormon. As you do, you will feel like they are friends in your ward that you get to know better and when they testify, you will feel as if they are in your living room sharing family home evening or even standing in your pulpit giving a talk. It may sound kind of odd, but there is a certain intimacy that develops from reading about their lives as they bear their souls to you. This is what I believe the Lord wants us to experience when we "liken" the scriptures to ourselves. We are literally learning from them.

In the meantime, feel free to share your thoughts, comments, testimonies, favorite verses, etc, particularly "your Book of Mormon story" here. In other words, feel free to share your conversion to the Book of Mormon.

Are you thinking of doing a new thread each week? If so, maybe we could ask the mods 4 a new subforum...
Looking forward to this...though i prob wont be able pipe in for a few weeks cause im in 3nephi.

Yes, one new thread each week. I don't know who the mods are, but if they're reading this and/or Brian is, a dedicated Book of Mormon Forum would be awesome if they think this is a good idea. And I request moderator access to that forum only so that I may sticky threads appropriately (I've modded and admin'd other forums, too, and can provide referrals) as needed. Thank you, linj2fly!

coachmarc wrote:Yes, one new thread each week. I don't know who the mods are, but if they're reading this and/or Brian is, a dedicated Book of Mormon Forum would be awesome if they think this is a good idea. And I request moderator access to that forum only so that I may sticky threads appropriately (I've modded and admin'd other forums, too, and can provide referrals) as needed. Thank you, linj2fly!

I pm'd Brian to see what he thinks...

CoachMarc, in your Sunday School lesson presentations, how did you address 2 Nephi 26:22 ?

linj2fly, I'll send him a message later today. In the meantime, I'll use this forum and if we get a new BOM Forum, it's a simple matter of moving threads over.

jeanpierre wrote:CoachMarc, in your Sunday School lesson presentations, how did you address 2 Nephi 26:22 ?

22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

That scripture and that chapter will not be covered for another couple of Sundays or so, but here, Nephi prophecies of the Savior's visitation to his (Nephi's) descendants and then a time when Satan will begin to take hold of their hearts. He tells us about how subtle Satan's methods are to lure us and bind us with "flaxen cords." Flaxen cords are thin, light cords. So he will catch one with a light cord and then another and another and another and so on until there are enough flaxen cords around us that we've completely fallen away from our course, have fallen into temptation until it's too late. This is the equivalent of being a frog boiled in water ever so slowly, if you've ever heard of that little parable. Before you know it, Satan has you bound not by flaxen cords, but by strong cords. Notice how in the verse Satan leads us "by the neck." That is something to think about!!

The Nephites were prone to this constantly and it got to the point where they were able to use the same secret oaths that were used by the Jaredites, and the same oaths that were used by Satan to lure Cain away. And so the Gadianton Robbers used this to lure away Nephites from their faith and from their churches until the churches splintered, were set up for gain, people were flattered by the Gadianton's to share their spoils and riches and so on. By the fourth generation after Christ's visit, they were all caught in Satan's cords and boiled in their own water. They had lost the Spirit of the Lord to the point where they just hated each other. All they cared about was hating and killing and wanting to die and get their miserable lives over because they couldn't live and keep their riches because they were too busy robbing, plundering and killing each other. So all they wanted was to kill each other and die. This is Satan's model. His folly. It is how he fell from heaven in the beginning and he perpetuates the cycle bringing as many as he can down with him. It's the very nature of evil.

So today, we ask ourselves (likening the scriptures unto us) how we are bound with flaxen cords. We need to look at ourselves and see if if there are one or two or more thin strands of cord around us that are just enough to keep us from reading the Book or Mormon, or paying tithing or watching too much tv and not going hometeaching, or whatever. There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Satan knows how to whisper in our ears so that we're rationalizing our lives away and procrastinating our repentance in whatever we need to correct. And every sin, no matter how big or small, is a distraction and an obstacle or a stumbling block to keep us from Christ. And Jesus Christ, who is always waiting with outstretched hands to help us, is always eager to help us. But we need to be humble and I mean be humble and meek and low as the dust, because THEN your heart is really ready to feel His power in our lives because we are then bent to His will. And His will is only to bring us home and share His joy.

jeanpierre wrote:CoachMarc, in your Sunday School lesson presentations, how did you address 2 Nephi 26:22 ?

This is just in time as I will be teaching this lesson on March 11th. We will be discussing 2 Nephi 26-31.

I had considered talking about secret combos, but my focus seem to be vain and foolish doctrines. I am curious what you might consider as modern vain and foolish doctrines. My list might include a faith based currency(i.e. federal reserve notes as opposed to gold and silver), buy now pay later, preemptive war, sustainable development/save the planet, eugenics/limiting family size. I would be curious to know your thoughts. Am I way off base, are there things I am missing?

Secret combinations, conspiracies, plans, etc are all used to bring us into captivity. In the old days of Israel, slavery was the obvious method. Israelites were captive to Egyptians. They were controlled and governed this way. Today we're civilized. Our captivity is purely voluntary. We allow ourselves to be led by unrighteous "governors" and "chief judges." We also subject ourselves to to credit card debt and all kinds of debt because we seek after the vain things of the world, where moth and rust corrupts. Things like fancy boats, expensive toys, collections, whatever. Buy now, pay later. These are flaxen cords that, in the end, subjugate us to harsh taskmasters.

JerL wrote: I am curious what you might consider as modern vain and foolish doctrines. My list might include a faith based currency(i.e. federal reserve notes as opposed to gold and silver), buy now pay later, preemptive war, sustainable development/save the planet, eugenics/limiting family size. I would be curious to know your thoughts. Am I way off base, are there things I am missing?

Oops, I missed this part. My thoughts on vain and foolish doctrines. I tend to think that there are those who think that being LDS is enough. Having a temple recommend is enough. Joseph Smith was told by the Lord not to join any churches. "They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me..." I believe many LDS have fallen into this state. I am not judging and I am not pointing fingers. Every person has to decide for himself or herself, myself included. I've been through a lot in my life. And I honestly and truly believe that it begins with how we treat the Book of Mormon. It's not the be all or end all litmus test, but it comes pretty darn close. These are my thoughts anyway.

Flaxen thread has some interesting qualities...When my husband first started making saddles, he used flax thread. It is soft and silky, but it also doesn't have much 'give' (doesn't stretch at all). The first day he used it he came into the house with cuts around his knuckles from pulling the thread tight through the cantle. And this wasn't the result of several pulls....each time he put tension on the thread it sliced him. I liken this to Satan as well, and find it interesting that 'flaxen' is the type of cord used in this verse, and that it is around one's neck. As long as we don't put tension on the cord, it nice and soft and silky, but as soon as we put tension on it in an effort to escape, it hurts/cuts, and we might then give up thinking there is no way out (except there is).

I'm looking forward to this, CM. I'm in primary (have been for a long time) so I don't get any gospel doctrine discussion. I just finished reading 3 nephi today, and I'm so overwhelmed. The BoM truly is a precious gift!

Thank you for sharing that bit of info! Indeed it's interesting that the term flaxen cord is used!

We have seen in movies and books about people selling their souls to the devil in exchange for material success. I guess this is based on true events, with the oaths given down through the ages and by the Gadiantions.

True. But you don't have to be a Gadianton or swear oaths to Satan for all that. All you have to do is lie, cheat, steal, etc. to get gain.

CoachMarc, in a SS lesson covering 2 Nephi 26:22 about all I would try to do is to call attention to the warning by reading 26:14 so the class knows this is directed to people in our time, and them read 26:22, following with a statement that there is a further warning of secret combinations in Ether 8 and descriptions of how they operate to get gain and control of government in Helaman 2:4, 12-13; 6:15-30; 7:4-5; 8:1-4; and 3 Nephi 6:25-30; 7:1-10 and 4 Nephi 1:42 & 46. If you are challenged why you even broached that subject, you can refer to President Packer's article in the August 2010 Ensign Magazine, Pg 23, where he references and quotes Moroni in Ether 8:20 - 24.

Thank you, lundbaek, for that information. I'll review all of that as I prepare the lesson from the material in the lesson manual.

I'm almost done with the BOM again. I can't help but reflect on the Anti-Nephi-Lehis the most, Ammon's great work and King Lamoni's conversion and his father's, too. I feel such a love for them. And I can almost see both of them in the spirit world laboring valiantly, too. I've got a lot of heroes to meet when I get there. I know I ramble on, but for those who don't know me, I'm Hispanic. I can only trace my genealogy back maybe 5 or 6 generations into deep Mexican territory. I suppose the Book of Mormon could be part of my heritage. I hope I don't annoy anyone with my passion for this great book.

coachmarc wrote:I'm almost done with the BOM again. I can't help but reflect on the Anti-Nephi-Lehis the most, Ammon's great work and King Lamoni's conversion and his father's, too. I feel such a love for them. And I can almost see both of them in the spirit world laboring valiantly, too. I've got a lot of heroes to meet when I get there. I know I ramble on, but for those who don't know me, I'm Hispanic. I can only trace my genealogy back maybe 5 or 6 generations into deep Mexican territory. I suppose the Book of Mormon could be part of my heritage. I hope I don't annoy anyone with my passion for this great book.

I do not find it annoying There is much to glory in when it comes to the BoM!

Thank you, linj2fly.

I'm curious, for anyone wishing to reply, who have received their patriarchal blessing. If you feel inclined to reply, does your patriarchal blessing say that you were born to a goodly lineage or adopted into a lineage? Or other wording? Interesting thing is, mine says I was born to a goodly lineage, even that of Ephraim. What's more interesting to me, is that my dad's patriarchal blessing says he's from Manasseh. My mom is from Ephraim. My sisters and I are both mixed, one sister is of Manasseh, not sure about the other two. Either way, we're all from the stem of Joseph, son of Jacob who is Israel.

I do specifically remember in the Book of Mormon that Lehi is a direct descendant of Manasseh, son of Joseph who was sold into Egypt. It is almost exciting to think that I might be a direct descendant of Lehi. Anyway, I'm also curious if anyone out there is of any other tribe. I have heard someone once say they were of a completely different tribe, just can't remember which. That was over 20 years ago, though.

Anyone?

coachmarc wrote:If you feel inclined to reply, does your patriarchal blessing say that you were born to a goodly lineage or adopted into a lineage? Or other wording?

Mine says, quote, "You are of the lineage of Joseph through his son, Ephraim, which is a special blessing to you that you will come to realize as you study the birthright blessings that can come to you as one of the descendants of the great patriarch, Abraham."

My husband's says, quote, "You are of the House of Israel. The blessings, which you will receive throughout eternity, will come to you through the lineage of Ephraim, he who received the birthright in Israel."

Our eldest son's says, quote, "I declare to you that you have descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob - also known as Israel - Joseph, and Ephraim. Now you know exactly how you are of the House of Israel and of the seed of Abraham."

Our youngest son's says, quote, "Anciently, you descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Ephraim. Be grateful for your lineage. You will receive the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob through your lineage."

It's kind of interesting though - my parents are both of Ephraim, and of their eight biological children, seven are from Ephraim, and one is from Judah. Go figure!

Thank you for sharing that, Stella!

Last night it occurred to me. It was definitely not a coincidence that the Lord led Mulek and company out of Jerusalem around the same time as Lehi. By the time the Nephites had discovered Zarahemla, they had become such a small group that they would have been finished off by the Lamanites within a generation had the Lord not told Mosiah to flee the Land of Nephi. The Lamanites had become exceedingly numerous and more and more Nephites were falling away. And Christ's visit to this continent would have been much different with virtually no Nephites or even a people worthy of his presence.

But when Mosiah and crew discover Zarahemla, and taught them their language, and especially after King Limhi and Alma had finally regrouped after their ordeals, the new community had become a sufficiently large kingdom rich with converts, especially after Abinadi's sacrifice, that the Lord's church could again thrive. It was at this point that Alma's son, Alma, began his mission to cleanse the church teaching in Zarahemla, Gideon, Ammoniahah, etc. while the four sons of Mosiah and their "brethren" went farther into Lamanite territory to convert many thousands, who had all migrated/fled to Zarahemla for safety and protection.

I can only imagine if Abinadi knew the impact that his testimony would have, if at all. I think that he believed he was going to his death, but went anyway, not knowing exactly how he would die. But because only one man believed him, that being Alma, generations of converts would follow. Alma, who converted around 450 people, returned to Zarahemla and became the High Priest of the church. His son, Alma, after persecuting the church with the sons of Mosiah, went on his "mission" as mentioned above and eventually left Zarahemla never to be seen again (presumed taken by the Lord as Moses).

Then his son, Helaman, became the next record keeper after his father, a high priest in the church and also a chief captain in the Nephite army who led 2,000 stripling warriors to battle. His son Helaman was a Nephite prophet who had a son named Nephi who did much missionary work (with his brother Lehi) and prophecying and was given the sealing power. His son, also named Nephi became one of Christ's disciples as did his brother Timothy.

Between the time of Alma the Elder who was converted by Abinadi, and Nephi the disciple, many, many thousands had become converted to the Lord. Had Zeniff never left Zarahemla to inherit the land of Nephi, a lot of lives might not have been lost or apostate, but then again, who knows what would have happened. In any case, the Lord was always a step ahead of this people of the branch of Joseph and showed great foreknowledge in bringing Mulek out of Jerusalem to guide them down to MesoAmerica without records to unwittingly await their future as Nephite converts. And thanks to Abinadi's testimony and sacrifice, a new line of record keepers arose, beginning with Alma the elder, who was a descendant of Nephi. And thousands upon thousands of people were converted to the Lord in the next three centuries.

I find the the stories of Alma and the four sons of Mosiah fascinating on so many levels. Not only do we learn about these great men, from their sore repentance process to their growth in their knowledge of the gospel to their desire to take the message to the entire land round about. I could write volumes. But I'll share just a little snippet.

The Lord used the Lamanites to hedge up the way of the Nephites every time they began apostatizing. The stories are too numerous to list, but here's one. Alma and Ammon and his brothers started a chain of events, a literal cleansing of the land. You have to cross reference time lines between Alma/Amulek and the four sons of Mosiah. While Alma labored in the land of Zarahemla and round about, Mosiah's sons traveled to the lands of Nephi and Ishmael, where it all began. In the fourteen or so years that they labored in this "good spot of ground" (study Jaocob 5), many thousands of Lamanites were converted under the rule of King Lamoni and his father. This really irked the dissenters in Lamanite territory because it frustrated their crafts.

Take the Amalekites for example. When Ammon and his brothers convert the Lamanites (thereafter called Anti-Nephi-Lehis), they end up moving to Zarahemla, more specifically, Jershon to inherit the city so that they could live in peace and not be further destroyed by the Amalekites. The Amalekites stung by this, along with the Amulonites, decided to take their hatred out on the Nephites. The closest Nephite city was Ammonihah. Meanwhile, Alma and Amulek were preaching repentance to them. The Lord commanded Alma to return to the land (after he was there rejected) and warn them of impending doom. Ironic that they challenged the notion that they could not be destroyed in one day because that is exactly what awaited them. Had these Nephite dissenters of Ammonihah repented and joined the rest of the Nephites in the cause of liberty, the Lord would have prepared them to resist the invasion (having been catalyzed by the missionary work of Mosiah's sons).

Had the Amalekites and Amulonites been smarter, they would have joined the people in Ammonihah in a huge Nephite dissenter's party and possibly overrun Zarahemla (obviously the Amalekites and Amulonites didn't know that the Ammonihahites were also dissenters). Captains Moroni, Helaman, Lehi and Teancum might have had their work cut out for them. Instead, Ammonihah was invaded and left desolate, except for the captives taken. And yet, the Nephites in Zarahemla under Captain Zoram, undertook a rescue mission and with divine help from Alma, caught up with the invaders and rescued the captives. Keep in mind those captives were Nephites from Ammonihah. I bet they were eating humble pie after they were rescued and never doubted prophets again. At least that's what I'd like to think.