LDS Freedom Forum

quote from http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... tt#p108405" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"...............Marriott board helps fellow Mormon Romney -- gives up porn

First, Mitt Romney resigned from the board of Marriott, after serving for many years while the hotel chain made millions and millions of dollars from in-room porn. There is no evidence that Romney complained about the practice when he was in a position to do something about it, despite the fact that pornography is contrary to the values of the Mormon church.

Romney, who has been desperately and unpersuasively trying to pass himself off as a champion of conservative moral values after supporting abortion for most of his political career and single-handedly legalizing homosexual marriage in Massachusetts, had been rightly criticized for looking the other way while the fellow Mormons who dominate the Marriott board made a killing preying on the moral weakness of its guests.

Now the board, in what appears to be a transparent attempt to boost Mitt's chances in 2012, has decided to drop porn from its new properties, and intends to phase out porn in existing hotels starting in 2013. That's a convenient date — if Romney fails in his White House bid, the board can phase it right back in.

Romney is polling well right now, but is avoiding the Tea Party like the bubonic plague. He doesn't want to get anywhere near them, and he doesn't want them to get anywhere near him. His conversion to social conservatism smacks of convenience rather than conviction. Mitt's problem is not that he's a Mormon; it's that he's not Mormon enough. Bottom line: Romney has no credibility on social issues. Are Republican voters paying attention?

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/110124" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... tt#p173834" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Joseph F. Smith:

“Some of our pretended pious people, a few years ago, were shocked and horrified by seeing the symbol of the All-Seeing Eye and the words 'Holiness to the Lord' in gilt letters over the front of Zion's Cooperative Mercantile Institution. Especially was this the case with some of our brethren when they found these letters over the drug department of Z.C.M.I. Why was it? Why some of these pious Mormons found that Z.C.M.I. UNDER THE SYMBOL OF THE ALL-SEEING EYE AND THE SACRED WORDS, 'HOLINESS TO THE LORD,' SOLD TEA AND COFFEE, AND TOBACCO, and other things possibly that Latter-day Saints ought not to use; and at the drug store, Z.C.M.I. KEPT LIQUORS of various kinds for medicinal purposes. It was terribly shocking to some of the Latter-day Saints that UNDER THESE HOLY WORDS LIQUOR SHOULD BE KEPT FOR SALE. Has it injured me, in any sense of the word, because Z.C.M.I. drug store kept LIQUOR for sale? Has it made me a drunkard? Have I been under the necessity of guzzling liquid poison? Have I made myself a sot because liquor was KEPT FOR SALE BY Z.C.M.I.? I am not the worse for it, thank the Lord. And who else is? No one, except those pious Mormons who in open day or under the cover of night would go into the drug store and buy liquor to drink.... Those who were the most horrified at seeing the All-Seeing Eye and 'Holiness to the Lord' over the front door of Z.C.M.I., I will guarantee are the ONES THAT HAVE BOUGHT THE MOST TEA AND COFFEE, TOBACCO AND WHISKEY THERE.... It does not matter to me how much tea and coffee Z.C.M.I. sells, so long as I do not buy it. If I do not drink it am I not all right? And if the poor creature that wants it can get it there, that ought to satisfy him. IF HE COULD NOT GET IT THERE, HE WOULD NOT PATRONIZE Z.C.M.I. AT ALL, BUT WOULD GO SOME WHERE ELSE TO DEAL.” (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, April 1898)


Brigham Young:

"When there was no whisky to be had here, and we needed it for rational purposes, I built a house to make it in. When the distillery was almost completed and in good working order, an army was heard of in our vicinity and I shut up the works; I did not make a gallon of whisky at my works, because it came here in great quantities, more than was needed" (Brigham Young, June 7, 1863, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p.206).


Ordinance on the Personal Sale of Liquors.

Section 1. Be it ordained by the City Council of Nauvoo, that the Mayor of the city be and is hereby authorized to sell or give spirits of any quantity as he in his wisdom shall judge to be for the health and comfort or convenience of such travelers or other persons as shall visit his house from time to time.
Passed December 12, 1843.
Joseph Smith, Mayor.
Willard Richards, Recorder. (History of the Church, vol. 6, p.111)

Just to differentiate... it seems those items (coffee, tea, tobacco, liquor) were not thought to be in the same vice/debauchery category as pronography/prositution, at least I don't recall any prophets ever justifying, promoting, or making available, pronography/prostitution. And so, it would seem, that Latter-day Saints would not be justified in distributing such filth?

Just a question here that I don't think has been covered. What genre (s) of porn are offered at this hotel? When I read the Meece Commission Report on Pornography it noted a variety of genres even in the 1990s. From what I understand there is what feminists call "sex positive" porn that generally features a heterosexual couple or lesbian couple in an explicit romantic setting. Popular with "yuppy" men and women. Then there is the really weird stuff (portraying various perversions or violence). This stuff is what brings in money for the industry as it is rarely carried on free sites. Then of course there is the traditional leather, silicone enhanced and spiked heels sort of thing which I assume is also a big money getter, although I have no clue as to the breakdown of its target audience.

I know this is a morality question, but I would at least hope that when they screen movies (who gets that job?) that they choose not to have the really nasty exploitative ones on the menu.

I think that to sell porn or be one of the people making it is wrong. I think that people who do that are predators. They know children will see their stuff and get addicted and they don't care because of the money they make. Some one sitting on the board of a hotel corporation is a lot different that that. They do not make these kinds of decisions typically. I do say that if you look at porn you are one of the causes of porn being made and sold. I really don't care about other people's standing in the church or before God. I am more worried about my standing and the standing of my family. I trust God to be merciful and just to all. And we never see the full story of anyone.
Oh and if you look at it in a hotel and think it doesn't effect anyone, I can tell you differently. We stayed in a hotel room for six weeks and were looking for something we lost and found a porn magazine left over from someone before us. Yeah the front desk came and took it and put it in the lost and found just in case the previous person wanted it back.

AussieOi wrote:Just to let you know, after teaching the youth to avoid Porn next sunday (because it is so bad of course), I am going to open a family oriented sports web site, where 2/rds will be devoted to sports articles and 1/3rd of it will be devoted to pay-per-view porn which they can access

Why?

1) its legal
2) I work for a company (sure its my company and i own it) and the obligation is to make money for its shareholders (sure my family owns 90% of the stock)
3) The people who come to my web site want it
4) I signed a contract to supply porn via my web site. And a contract is a contract is a contract

This is a business decision, not a moral one

Don't worry. i'll have a link to the church web site so that people who come here know I am LDS and can access some wholesome materials. I'll even hyperlink to the Book of Mormon to show how important the gospel is to our company

(anyone spot the irony here)

=))

Great example. It really illustrates how ridiculous it is to try and defend selling porn from an LDS viewpoint.

And Yet Aussie has stated that sometimes while in a hotel he will look at porn. And that since he has had opportunities to cheat and hasn't his occasional look at porn isn't so bad.

Fiannan wrote:Just a question here that I don't think has been covered. What genre (s) of porn are offered at this hotel? When I read the Meece Commission Report on Pornography it noted a variety of genres even in the 1990s. From what I understand there is what feminists call "sex positive" porn that generally features a heterosexual couple or lesbian couple in an explicit romantic setting. Popular with "yuppy" men and women. Then there is the really weird stuff (portraying various perversions or violence). This stuff is what brings in money for the industry as it is rarely carried on free sites. Then of course there is the traditional leather, silicone enhanced and spiked heels sort of thing which I assume is also a big money getter, although I have no clue as to the breakdown of its target audience.

I know this is a morality question, but I would at least hope that when they screen movies (who gets that job?) that they choose not to have the really nasty exploitative ones on the menu.

Its all bad Fiannan. Seems like you are rationalizing here. Either its bad or its not. Theres no middle ground when it comes to this stuff. Sounds like you know your porn, why is that?

Spence wrote:So your uncle is saying that I should be able to sell cocaine or heroine and it should be perfectly acceptable with my standing with the Lord? After all there is a market for it. I am just catering to those around me rather than standing for something?

While bro Nelson's video is applicable. Also applicable would be to read the end of Mormon Chp 8 to find out what Moroni has to say about we the Church in our day. We have a long way to go, and there should be no justifications for our failings. It is truly sad to read his description of what he has seen us become.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/8?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just watched this youtube video. So it seems that when running for president (Romney), you should stop selling porn, but when made a member of the 70 (Marriott), you need not? The corruption of this entire situation is incredible. I cannot believe we are even having this discussion. My wife is livid, my kids are embarrassed, and their faith in this church is now reduced to close to zero. I am without words.

Gideon wrote:
I don't understand how anyone can sell alcohol or cigarettes, especially Latter-day Saints. How are they different from the leaders of drug cartels that don't use their own products?

http://barerecord.blogspot.com/2012/01/ ... orial.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stop worrying about what other people are doing and worry about yourself. While the Lord was not pleased with the sinners, he hung out with them. He was most irritated by the self-righteous pharisees judging others.

From Bill Marriott's Blog:

The Facts About Marriott and California's Proposition 8
Posted:11/11/2008 4:17 PM
As many of you may know I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Some might conclude given my family's membership in the Mormon Church that our company supported the recent ballot initiative to ban same sex marriage in California. This is simply untrue. Marriott International is a public company headquartered in Bethesda, Maryland, and is not controlled by any one individual or family. Neither I, nor the company, contributed to the campaign to pass Proposition 8.

The Bible that I love teaches me about honesty, integrity and unconditional love for all people. But beyond that, I am very careful about separating my personal faith and beliefs from how we run our business.

I am personally motivated to speak now because Marriott was built on the basic principles of respect and inclusion. My father, who founded this company along with my mother, told everyone who would listen: "Take care of your employees, and they'll take care of your customers, who will come back again and again."

For more than 80 years, our company has grown and changed, but that basic principle still holds up. We embrace all people as our customers, associates, owners and franchisees regardless of race, sex, gender identity or sexual orientation.

Our principle is backed up with a formal diversity program, which we established more than 20 years ago. Our Board of Directors has also focused on this priority and helped us be a leader and a better company. We were among the first in our industry to offer domestic partner benefits, and we've earned a perfect 100% score on the Human Rights Campaign's Corporate Equality Index for two years in a row. Many of our hotels have hosted LGBT community functions and events for years.

I am very proud of all of our associates at Marriott. And I want all our associates and guests, whom we welcome into our hotels, to know that we embrace your talents and thank you for your many contributions and your business.

I'm Bill Marriott, and thanks for helping me keep Marriott on the Move.

I'll never understand the whole domestic partner benefits thing. Its like if you live with a buddy and your straight, you get no benefits. If you are living with the buddy and you are gay then you get company benefits. What the heck? Can someone explain that sort of thinking?

p51-mustang wrote:

Fiannan wrote:Just a question here that I don't think has been covered. What genre (s) of porn are offered at this hotel? When I read the Meece Commission Report on Pornography it noted a variety of genres even in the 1990s. From what I understand there is what feminists call "sex positive" porn that generally features a heterosexual couple or lesbian couple in an explicit romantic setting. Popular with "yuppy" men and women. Then there is the really weird stuff (portraying various perversions or violence). This stuff is what brings in money for the industry as it is rarely carried on free sites. Then of course there is the traditional leather, silicone enhanced and spiked heels sort of thing which I assume is also a big money getter, although I have no clue as to the breakdown of its target audience.

I know this is a morality question, but I would at least hope that when they screen movies (who gets that job?) that they choose not to have the really nasty exploitative ones on the menu.

Its all bad Fiannan. Seems like you are rationalizing here. Either its bad or its not. Theres no middle ground when it comes to this stuff. Sounds like you know your porn, why is that?

I think there is at least a psychological and cultural difference between making movies that might show a woman getting gang raped and enjoying it and another producer that might make a movie with a romantic (plus sexual) plot. Oh, and let's not go the route of "so you know this and that so are you into porn?" route. A person can know a great deal about Chinese history and not be Chinese. And did I not state I read the entire Meece report? That is certainly not the only study, or compilation of studies.

ATL Wake wrote:

Gideon wrote:
I don't understand how anyone can sell alcohol or cigarettes, especially Latter-day Saints. How are they different from the leaders of drug cartels that don't use their own products?

http://barerecord.blogspot.com/2012/01/ ... orial.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stop worrying about what other people are doing and worry about yourself. While the Lord was not pleased with the sinners, he hung out with them. He was most irritated by the self-righteous pharisees judging others.

I agree. People should stop freaking out if their son or daughter happens to look at a porn site (of course I am not serious here but trying to make a point). Making porn accessible is good business, but looking at it is bad?

AussieOi wrote:

jnjnelson wrote:

chasetafer0707 wrote:… I personally feel it would be wrong to profit from pornography, but those who are on any hotel board of directors have to make that decision for themselves. Obviously God does have an opinion, but it's not for me to dictate that to someone else.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I think this video is applicable to most of this thread.

I find it abhorrant that someone would invoke the Saviors words, uttered by a living prophet, to justify selling pornography

If you are prepared to offer EXACTLY the same rights of "its in the Playboy contract to supply pornography" to Hugh Heffner, I will accept this youtube
If you are prepared to offer EXACTLY the same rights of "its in the Hustler contract to supply pornography" to Larry Flynt, I will accept this youtube

This thread has to go back to the Marriott Porn thread- it has all been covered, including the very CONTRACT and reasons WHY he and the board of directors provide it, no, sorry, why they PUSH it

We are told to remove ourselves from Babylon, leave ourselves unspotted from the world.
We are told the Rich man will not inherit heaven

And then we name business schools at The Lords very University, an insitution of higher learning, after PEOPLE

Luke is right. utterly disgusting.

Rombey was on the board of directors
He coould have done 2 things
Demanded a renegotiated contract
Resign

The excuses people make for these compromised businessmen are just pathetic

I haven't attempted to justify anyone's behavior - especially the selling of pornography; I merely think our time is better spent washing our own windows, rather than spent pointing out someone else's dirty laundry (even if that laundry appears "abhorrant").

ithink wrote: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/8?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just watched this youtube video. So it seems that when running for president (Romney), you should stop selling porn, but when made a member of the 70 (Marriott), you need not? The corruption of this entire situation is incredible. I cannot believe we are even having this discussion. My wife is livid, my kids are embarrassed, and their faith in this church is now reduced to close to zero. I am without words.[/quote]


You know i am sad to hear this
And this is another reason it gets my goat- the double standard

But can i also add, that a very different approach to the gospel can be found once a person can see something like this and get through it

I had a similar problem with Pres Hinckley supporting what was and is and proved to be an illegal, immoral and unfounded invasion of Iraq based on lies.

I thoughts this guy is the prophet- i was taught he speaks to Christ in the temple. How can this be so wrong. And then i heard him say “and this is my opinion” and then i realised, hey, sometimes, when the lord doesn’t want to step in, he is a man too

And then i learned to form my own opinions, and understand how revelation works even for prophets

YES. they can be deceived

YES!! good. Ordinary/ bad men end up in callings in the church

Most are good intended

But many scratch in the dark like we do, trying to find what is god saying

Our church is very corporatized, for good or bad

But it doesn’t change the GOSPEL. Christ himself probably shakes his head

So does he come down every 15 minutes and say “are you guys serious, how can you invite this warmonger Patreaus to my fathers university??? Don’t you get it”

Or does he want US to get it? You, me, your wife, your kids

That is, do not put your faith in man or institution

Put it in god and in his son and in the holy ghost

This gospel is restored and it is HIS gospel, but it is run by us down here, and we are very very ordinary people

Marriott is a billionaire. Whether it is from styrafoam containers or from porn or heroin or shipping containers, does it matter? Is being some incredibly wealthy (my cut off for reality check is $100m by the way) consistent with what king Benjamin taught- that we are only blessed so as to be able to help others who the lord needs us to help.

Cancer foundations and clinics aren’t a help. But they get your name on a hospital. If the lord wants us to stop dying of cancer we will

A perfect church, imperfect people

I am even less perfect that all these men who give their time over and over and over.

Your wife and kids have to be sure they aren’t using this as an excuse to justify not wanting to go to church, or pay tithing, or live a certain lifestyle of self denial. We all do. I do. You do

Is this one any different than anything in any dispensation? Aaron and the calf. David and Bathsheba, joseph and PM, Brigham and Mountain Meadows

Do you think Abraham was any different

Lot and his daughters

Shall i go on?

These are opportunities to actually ENHANCE faith, and testimony

Maybe we are lucky NOT being in the USA- we don’t know we don’t see and really, don’t cult worship Gas. They are just administrators in truth- aside from the 12+3 + church bishopric

Nan wrote:And Yet Aussie has stated that sometimes while in a hotel he will look at porn. And that since he has had opportunities to cheat and hasn't his occasional look at porn isn't so bad.

Always amazed how well people choose to remember otherwise irrelevent things and bring back up. It slike they have a special draw call "sniper bullets". Do they print out some posts? Do they bookmark them? Cut and paste them into a document on each person? I dont even remember what I posted 3 lines ago, and yes some people are so quick on the trigger. Its like the finger is poised.


Now now Nan, Was that all you took from the post Nan?
You're not apologising for porn here are you?
Don't use me as a poster boy
I thought in the context of the thread it offered a lot more than that

And for the record- yes, I look at a lot of porn
I see it every day. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY
I think that actually has a lot to do with that post and that thread (wasn't the thread deleted anyway?)

jnjnelson wrote:.>>>>>>>>>>>The excuses people make for these compromised businessmen are just pathetic

I haven't attempted to justify anyone's behavior - especially the selling of pornography; I merely think our time is better spent washing our own windows, rather than spent pointing out someone else's dirty laundry (even if that laundry appears "abhorrant").[/quote]


Get off the grass mate

We're having a thread about those who sell porn and which SPECIFICALLY is about Marriott and his company and we are asking a specific question "in Is it ok to Sell Porn and be in good church standing?"

now CLEARLY the answer to that would have to be, NO (and we're not referring to a person in a newsagent with a few lad mags here either. this thread is about the supplier end of the chain


You can't come in here, tell those spelling out the reality of the matter that they need to look at themselves, and then say "oh hey I'm not talking about anyone here, just telling YOU you need to look at yourself."

Mate, dirty laundry, dirt, mud, synonymous with sin and the way PORN is sold to kids. its mud and it will stick on you and stain you.

you said

… I personally feel it would be wrong to profit from pornography, but those who are on any hotel board of directors have to make that decision for themselves. Obviously God does have an opinion, but it's not for me to dictate that to someone else.

then you posted your piece saying "you are dirtier than the laundry and the laundry was actually clean" preceded with a statement tyada yada board of directors (ie oh hey this is a corporate issues and they are removed from the decision making process and yo uknow have to submit to the will of shareho9lders yadayada"

and you simply excuse it and that is an attempt to justify it

tyhen you pull the perfect shut down

heres the you are dirtier than them video, and hey, you know ho wi said clearly god has an opinion, well here's his prophet saying dont judge.

look. if this were about gossip, or bringing up children, or church attendance, or word of wisdom, i would be in full agreeance


but lets not kid ourselves here, or try to tell someone else they have the greater sin

im a bit older than a 17yr old okay,

and yes, we all need to look at our own lives

hypothetical

you own a Blockbuster franchise- ("The video store for family entertainment"

they send you a hundred hard core, hard core XXX rated DVDs and tell you you need to put them on the shelves and rent them out

what would you do?

its your franchise

here's another one

You OWN Blockbuster and YOU supply the DVDs to the stores, one half of which are franchiseed and one half you own

and then YOU send them to your stores, and make them put them on their shelves

Context is that you are a multi billionaire, a well known christian, and your distribution network is the 3rd largest renter of Porn in the USA

And you know there are kids wandering the stores unsupervised for hours.

And these kids can take the DVD off the shelf and go to a private viewing room and view any DVD.

Apparently YOU signed the contract with Hustler DVDs

What would you do?

What if one of your underlings signed the contact, what would you do there?

What if you were another person, and you were on the board of Blockbuster, and the US's main Family Lobby association wrote to you expressing concern about the damage thse videos caused on people coming into he stores- not to mention renting them.

What if Hustler advised you that they have another line of movies you could substitute the contract into that are not porn.

I think we can end the thread now

Col. Flagg wrote:This discussion is somewhat reminiscient of the same problem I believe Attorneys have – can an LDS member be an Attorney and still answer in the affirmative that they are honest in their dealings with their fellow men? Given today’s political and justice system climate/arena, I honestly (no pun intended) do not see how a member of the church can be an Attorney and not engage in dishonest practice? Why do people go into law? Money. Job security maybe. But most go into it for the money you can make, but can you make the money you want while being honest with your work? How many cases would you be limited to if you only took those where you knew you were defending or prosecuting someone who was guilty and/or innocent?
I look at these guys on TV like Siegfried and Jensen (local – Salt Lake area accident Attorneys) and wonder how they can sleep at night knowing they are engaging in abhorrent practices such as chasing down ambulances and encouraging a prospective Client to sue the pants off the person who injured them (intentional or not). Lives can be destroyed like that, but as long as they get their fair share at the end of the day, oh well. Sadly, this has become the case with LDS members involved in the selling and/or distribution of porn… ‘hey, it’s legal, and those who do it are making their own choice’, therefore, it’s OK’. If you’re a member of the church and can live with being dishonest in your dealings with your fellow men as long as you’re making a bunch of money or engaging in earning a living by peddling smut, more power to you – just remember what is going to happen though to those who have been entering the temple unworthily and the parable of the wheat and tares.

Maybe it's because you are incapable of disassociating individuals from sterotypes; in other words, you prefer to not take people one at a time but would rather categorize people. I am willing to bet that Elder Oaks does not = Siegried and Jensen. But sure, let's go ahead and say all attorneys are bad. I mean, that's totally consistent with what we're taught, right?

AussieOi wrote:

Nan wrote:And Yet Aussie has stated that sometimes while in a hotel he will look at porn. And that since he has had opportunities to cheat and hasn't his occasional look at porn isn't so bad.

Always amazed how well people choose to remember otherwise irrelevent things and bring back up. It slike they have a special draw call "sniper bullets". Do they print out some posts? Do they bookmark them? Cut and paste them into a document on each person? I dont even remember what I posted 3 lines ago, and yes some people are so quick on the trigger. Its like the finger is poised.


Now now Nan, Was that all you took from the post Nan?
You're not apologising for porn here are you?
Don't use me as a poster boy
I thought in the context of the thread it offered a lot more than that

And for the record- yes, I look at a lot of porn
I see it every day. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY
I think that actually has a lot to do with that post and that thread (wasn't the thread deleted anyway?)

Nope, I don't keep a record Aussie. It just was stunning to me that you would justify your choice to do porn the way you did. It was very memorable.

LOL. Sigh

I remember i had a post here deleted a few months back

It said Cowell and I went out one night and spent the night talking to drunkards, gamblers and prostitutes

Apparently that is a sign of a bad person

Of course what i could have written was “cowell and i volunteered to go on a salvation army rescue night”, but, then, that would have denied some here the opportunity to fill in the blanks according to their own interpretations

Yeah i watch porn, i see it every day

Last porn show i watched was an episode of Sex and the city. Of course i was waiting for it to end while my soccer game came on. Come to think of it that night in the hotel- while the co-worker was waiting for me downstairs (and i mean waiting for me) i turned on the tv and music videos were on. Pink i think it was. Or nelly, something like that. Thats porn if you ask me

But then, if i had said i was waiting for the soccer to come on, it would ensure people missed the opportunity to fill in the blank that 1) porn is EVERYWHERE, it is on the bus shelter, it is on the newsagent stand. It is in the magazine advert, it is on at half time at superbowl, used to sell toothpaste, cars, breakfast cereal, dieting.
2) porn is NOT simply naked people having intercourse. In fact there is very little difference from what i see on the half time show and what porn is. Madonna gave birth 37 times at half time her crotch was lowered so often i thought she had worms.

So What, we don’t see actual penetration in the Game of Thrones tv series and we don’t (often) see the male organ. But from what i can tell, it is the same as porn to me, and of course 3) by lying and pontificating “i don’t look at porn” im honest enough not to kid myself.

Have i ever even watched a movie in a hotel? No
Have i actually even watched a hard core movie? No, i don’t believe i actually have

So because it is EVERYwhere (sometimes i don’t think a woman can actually understand how it is EVERYwhere) yeah, do i see it, yes, do i watch it, yes
Willingly, no
Some of it, well, maybe. Sometimes. Depends if a low cut top is porn doesn’t it.


Was I watching Porn? Yes. Absolutely
Was I watching the type of Porn that is sold under “the title of the movie will not appear on your bill”? No

Essentially Nan, I give people enough rope to hang me with.
I wonder how many of them used to watch Dynasty? Or read Romance novels?

I find that letting people hang me with what they want to believe i am saying adds much to a discussion. Often proves a point along the way.

Like the salvation army concept, amazing how things get deleted, well meaning mods seeking to protect the masses missing the point.

I’m sure this thread will be memory holed in time

Justify?

It was still a point

Why was it acceptable to use straight porn on gay men (with electrodes attached to their genitals) so as to reprogram them to be heterosexual again?

Is it better a man watch porn if his wife is incapable of sexual interaction, than he goes to a prostitute?

Is it better a junkie takes methodone?

Is it better for Marriott to provide this service to businessmen in vegas, so that they DON’T go outside and potentially procure the services of a prostitute?

OR, will the use of porn increase the mans likelihood of using the prostitute?

Is Porn a gateway, or can it be a useful tool to avoiding further damage?

IIRC it was our church that was hooking gays up to electric shock machines was it not (??)

Aussie, You fight so hard for a little porn to be acceptable. It isn't going to be acceptable before the Lord. And no, the post where you posted it was not the one you are thinking of. You said that you travel with your work and that sometimes you watch porn for 10 minutes but that because many beautiful women have been willing to have sex with you will you travel that it is okay if you look at porn because you aren't having sex with women you could be having sex with.

And on a side note, I don't read romance novels, watch soaps or watch romantic movies. I am the one on the couch watching football and basketball.

Who says I excuse or justify. I know full well what is or isn't appropriate

Having said that, why is abortion acceptable. Isn't murder, murder?

And why was it acceptable for these homo's the be reprogrammed with porn, but I can't be?

Maybe Marriott is providing a service to married couples to spice up_their_sex lives?

Anyway, I find it disturbing that anyone would (care to) remember what I post.

Having said that, it sounds like a good read. Can you provide the reference to that thread? I can't quite remember it coming out like that

AussieOi wrote:Who says I excuse or justify. I know full well what is or isn't appropriate

Having said that, why is abortion acceptable. Isn't murder, murder?

And why was it acceptable for these homo's the be reprogrammed with porn, but I can't be?

Maybe Marriott is providing a service to married couples to spice up_their_sex lives?

Anyway, I find it disturbing that anyone would (care to) remember what I post.

Having said that, it sounds like a good read. Can you provide the reference to that thread? I can't quite remember it coming out like that

You are bringing up arguments that have nothing to do with what you said and how you justify your porn use. Porn use is wrong. I know nothing I say will change your mind or help you see that you are not on the same page as the Lord when it comes to porn use. I just wouldn't want anyone else to think that it is okay to do as long as you can come up with an excuse that makes you an exception.

well isn't this interesting!!

you are saying that people rationalise their decisions, but notwithstanding their "personal situation", consumption, or supply, or porn, is just plainly wrong. hmm, interesting

i wont go down the road of the queer reprogramming using porn and electrodes because that kind of undermines the point here, but gee, thanks Nan, you took my straw and burnt it.

what you are saying, is that there are no excuses.

therefore if i can't excuse it for my reasons, so...then.....neither can the directors and shareholders in Marriott likewise excuse it for their reasons

LOL end the thread

shucks. i just dont know why people aren't posting threads in reply to you Nan (in your replying to me) telling you that YOU need to wash your windows, or that you should not jump to conclusions, or its a business decision, or whatever other excuse they come up with.

do you think people should come in here and make excuses for me? for what its worth I don't. porn is porn

now again, that said, in the publics definition of the word "porn", would it surprise you to know i don't actually watch the stuff, and never actually have in the hotels like i hinted i did?

i also think we need to be careful in understanding what is porn. i had 6 clothing catalogues arrive in the junk mail over the weekend. 3 of them i classify as porn