Thank you Ashley! Means a lot coming from you! I hope to soon introduce Anthony Larsons works into the picture. In fact I have no problems saying you know more than me in this department so please feel free to pitch in when the time comes! Your input and insights are most welcome. In fact, I just might quote some of your post to save time. Of course this is were the windows of heaven begin to open. It's still baffles my mind and the implications are truly endless. Also, thank you for everything! Your family remains in my prayers!AshleyB wrote:Wow, Keep up the great workI know posts like these take a lot of time. This is one of my favorite threads. Love this subject!
I think you ladies are too nice! Thank you Jules! That fossilized leg is pretty impressive/cool! Hopefully I will have some time in the near future to bring in the truly amazing stuff and tie it in all together. Truth is I have failed in the past to tie it all together for others, mainly because I have so little time and I often rush my thoughts. Also, I miss you too! I was seriously about to text you last week. I had an excruciating painful migraine headache for 4 days. Nothing I did would help. There is nothing that will bring me to my knees like a migraine. In fact, I pleaded for death last week!JulesGP wrote:Matt your research is amazing, and like Ashley, I LOVE this thread! I'm a 100% electric universe convert, and the other things you posted - the fossilized leg, the mummified dinosaur, the communication between trees... I LOVE this stuff!
I miss you BTW!!
) Funny thing is you get them way more often than me and you handle them like a man while cry like a girl. :-$ also, I was in South Dakota three weeks ago with my mom and niece. We stopped by Sturgis which is the home of the biggest bike shows in the country. But I saw some incredible choppers and I decided I am getting me a bike in the near future. The fire was lit. Will let you know when I get it!!Few more interesting tid bits.......I just tried a google search for "mummified fossil", like this:
http://images.google.com/search?hl=en&q ... Q&tbm=isch
This is an interesting item that came up.
Mummified Dinosaur Heads to Texas - Physorg.com
A mummified dinosaur discovered on the Hi-Line [a Texas lake, I think] is heading to the Houston Museum of Natural Sciences, where it will be studied and displayed for more than a year.
*Also another interesting tid bit, I just realized that the fossilized "foot in boot" is very reminiscent of the fused "coins in pocket" of this thunderbolt picture of the day....
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... ofire3.htm Which says re the Chicago Fire:
Buildings exploding with fire when no fire was yet present
Electrical discharges would take place between metal objects inside buildings, igniting any flammable materials. The same would hold true for the hapless man [in Wisconsin I think] found with melted [fused] coins in his pocket but clothes intact and no other signs of burning. There is, in fact, no other natural explanation for this enigma.
Also of interest is a presentation on the Peshtigo fire by the Oconto County Web Project, which discusses the comet hypothesis as a "plausible" theory
The foot in the boot fossilized without having noticeable effect on the boot; and, likewise, the coins in the pocket fused together without having noticeable effect on the man's pocket or clothing.Nevertheless, it is hard to imagine the “cometary” explanation ever receiving the attention it deserves until those addressing the question familiarize themselves with the electric comet model. As we have already emphasized, without this deliberate reconsideration of the underlying question—what is a comet?— the investigator will either ignore or forget the most telling clues.
*Here are some findings on making "rock" using electricity in self propegating reaction, most probably involving transmutation..
(SHS)
self-propagating high-temperature synthesis
http://www.ism.ac.ru/handbook/shsf.htm
Thinking about the formation of rocks and rock strata in time frame that does not require millions of years some really cool implications involving high temps electricity and rock/planetary formation.Reaction is normally initiated from the sample surface with a heat flux (heated wire, electric spark, laser beam, etc.). After initiation, reaction proceeds in the mode of self-propagation. The duration of heating is markedly shorter than the time of reaction (combustion).
Also this... New discoveries of the Green Sahara. The finding shows that GET is valid and the Earth grew between ten thousand and six thousand years ago.
Scientists Find Stone Age Burial Ground From Once-green Sahara
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/ ... 08-14.html
Lost Tribes of the Green Sahara; How a dinosaur hunter uncovered the Sahara's strangest Stone Age graveyard
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/ ... /gwin-text
And the text version of the article;
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print ... /gwin-text
One last thing I find interesting is the myth side of fossilization. It's so intriguing that some Aboriginal legends actually mentioned lightning in conjuntion with things being turned to stone. I wanted to find out what Native Americans had to say about fossils in their oral traditions, esp in the Colorado Plateau. I found a book called Fossil Legends of the First Americans by Adrienne Mayor. She has done invaluable research into the legends of Indians in North and Central America, and also the book has an illuminating perspective on the history of various attitudes towards Native myths displayed by the first paleontologists. It really is a terrific read.
I hope this is not a spoiler!
90% of the legends kept by the Indians relating to both fossils and the death of the megafauna and dinosaurs involve lightning and thunderbolts. I will say it is not a spoiler, but a "hanger" to tell you that, because now you will be wondering what happened in the other 10%!I thought some would be interested in the incredible link betweed electrical discharges and fossilization found in the legends.
Her book is very well done. Her extensive research is always well- presented and the book contains many ineresting leitmotifs that make it worth having a copy: the contrasting attitudes of early explorers, settlers, and scientists towards American Indian oral traditions. She gives quotes at the head of each chapter to illustrate, eg
1. the contrasting attitudes of early explorers, settlers, and scientists towards American Indian oral traditions. She gives quotes at the head of each chapter to illustrate, eg
"There is very little in any Tradition of the Savages to be relied upon."
--Cotton Mather, 1712
2. many Native American legends contain the theme of different eras, which are marked by changes in the size and kinds of animalsThis is their Tradition and I see no reason why it should not be received as good History, at least as good as a great part of ours.
--George Rogers Clark, 1789
3. giant humans make quite a few appearances
4. she introduces the reader to the work of Georges Cuvier, a great paleontologist of Lyell's day, whose memory has been marginalized for his skepticism re. Darwin's theory and for his catastrophism
5. lightning and thunderbolts
6. Adrienne Mayor is always careful to maintain that the origins of the legends are to explain the existence of fossils and mummified animal remains, and not the result of any eye witness accounts of dinosaurs or megafauna, except perhaps mastodons
7. Mayor carefully tracks the location of specific fossils, and often uncovers the names, photos and fates of Indian Scout guides. Anyone who has ever done any local or family history research will delight in her sleuthing!
Here are a few quotes;
Ch 1
Iroquois, Shawnee, Delaware in New England, the Mid-Atlantic and the Ohio Valley
"An Iroquois tradition recorded in 1825 by the Tuscarora historian David Cusick is especially striking. Some two thousand years before Columbus, a great horned monster killed by thunderbolts appeared on the shore of Lake Ontario, and its stench brought disease." pg 38
"Other Iroquois tales describe dragons or serpents and water monsters with horns like giant buffalo's, destroyed by Thunder Beings and by the Little People..." p40
"Many Iroquois stories tell of Stone Giants, ferocious men and women called Ot-ne-yar-heh, who lived about 1,250 years before Columbus....They were destroyed by rock slide or trapped in marshy pits...In Seneca lore the Stone Giants were destroyed en masse by fire and earthquake..." pg 41
"Fossilized footprints of mammals and dinosaurs, known to the Iroquois as uki prints (uki means sky powers, such as thunder and lightning) also drew intense interest."
"According to the Delaware tradition, the monster was trapped in a mountain pass and destroyed by lightning." pg 49
"Found several bones of a Prodigious size," [Cresswell] noted. "What sort of animals these were is not clearly known. All the Traditionary accounts by the Indians is that they were White Buffalos, that killed themselves by drinking salt water." pg 53
"This place was a landmark of long standing...The Shawnees believed that the five creatures had died at the same time, struck by lightning." pg 53
"Notably, [the Shawnee] information not only included fossil measurements and estimates of the animal's size when they had been alive; it also attempted to account for the extinction of huge beasts and giant men in a distant era before modern humans. After the great men had died out, they said, 'God had Kill'd' the mighty animals with lightning bolts, so that they could 'not hurt the present race of Indians.'" pg 54
A Delaware elder to Thomas Jefferson:"Lightning was also the agent of extinction in the Delaware traditions about mastodon fossils, as Thomas Jefferson learned a few years after Wright interviewed the Shawnee men." pg55
"'In ancient time a herd of these tremendous animals came to the Bigbone Licks' and destroyed the smaller game...which had been created for Indians to hunt. The 'Great Man above' was 'so enraged that he seized his lightning, descended on the earth, seated himself on a neighboring mountain.' He 'hurled his bolts til the whole were slaughtered.'" pg 59
"The Shawnee related that...the good Spirit had destroyed these immense animals with lightning..." pg 65
"In old Delaware traditions, the name Yah Qua Whee was used for unknown monsters. In 1905 however, Adams translated Yah Qua Whee as 'mastodon.'
From Fossil Legends of the First Americans, by Adrienne Mayor'...The valleys ran in blood. The battlefield became a great mire, and many of the mastodons, by their weight, sank in the mire and were drowned.' There was 'a terrible loss' of the smaller game animals, too. Adams describes the Great Spirit hurling lightning bolts to destroy the mastodons." pg 66
When I emerged from my muddy car, Morris Chee, Jr., a laconic guide from [Navajo village] Moenave, expressed surprise that anyone would stop in the cold rain and slog through puddles to see the footprints. But on sunny, dry days, it's hard to make out the tracks unless one pours a canteen of water into a single impression to see its shape. Today was the perfect weather for tracking dinosaurs: every footprint, big and small, was brimming with rainwater, and the wet bedrock was teeming with the traces of monsters.
Keeping his hands in his pockets, and gazing off to the stormy horizon, Chee walked up to each track and nodded down at it to be sure I noticed it (gesturing by pointing with the finger, as well as eye contact, is avoided by traditional Navajos)....A circle of stones marked off "the only bones we got left here. See the ribs and backbone and the jaws?"
Chapter 3: The SouthwestThen Chee indicated several places where large slabs of rock with tracks had been chipped out and hauled away. "They took away all our bones, too, back in the '40's, before I was born," he said with resignation, referring to Jesse Williams's Dilophosaurus find now in Berkeley. "We don't ask for them back any more, that was a long time ago. Why don't they make a cast for taking away and leave the bones here? It's better to keep it in the ground right where it is. I wish we could have a museum for the bones here, then people would come to see it." pg 141
Zuni, Navajo, Apache, Hopi, Ute, and Pit River
The Twin Children of the Sun realized that the world needed to be dried out and solidified before the "unfinished" humans succumbed to the monsters. Wielding a magic shield, a rain-bow, and arrows of cosmic lightning, the Twin Heroes ignited a tremendous conflagration. The fire raged over the face of the earth, scorching it dry and hardening the ground. Humans emerged from their mud-cave existence into blinding sunlight.... pg 111
But now, on dry land, predatory animals multiplied. With their powerful talons and teeth, these giant creatures devoured weaker human beings. So the Twin Heroes stalked across the world, blasting all the land monsters--enormous mountain lions and bears and other huge creatures--with lightning. "Thlu!" Instantly immolated, these dangerous beasts were "shriveled and burnt into stone." Pg 111
We have changed you into rock everlasting, said the Twin Heroes, as they struck the huge animals with lightning. "Now you will be good for men rather than evil." pg 112
Figure 31. Belemnite fossils, used for protection in battle by the Zuni. These marine fossils were called "lightning or thunder stones" by Plains Indians.
When I asked Mearl about dinosaur fossils, she replied, "In the story of the coming of This World, the twin Monster Slayers killed the monsters one by one. But they couldn't destroy their bodies. These are the fossils. This is a short story but I think you get the idea." pg 117
As in the Zuni myth, the earlier, wet and muddy worlds were dominated by monsters, which were created before human beings and preyed on them. Some monsters even persued people into successive worlds. But the Sun gave special lightning bolts to the twin sons of Changing Woman, so that they could overcome the monsters. pg 119
The first, most dreaded monster was Yeitso (also called Big Monster or Big Gray Monster--gray is associated with evil)....The monster's face was striped (stripes are associated with terror), and its stupendous body was covered with scaled armor. Approaching with earthshaking footsteps, Yeitso attacked, but the Twins destroyed it with lightning. Pg 119
Chapter 3: The Southwest Zuni, Navajo, Apache, Hopi, Ute, and Pit RiverAs the monster plowed up the earth with its horns, they [Monster Slayers] killed it with lightning arrows. A little gopher assured them the monster was dead by running out along one of its horns. pg 122
cont'd
[T]he Yup'ik people of southwestern Alaska tell of a tusked creature called Quugaarpaq, said to "travel underground, turning to stone when it came in contact with air. pg 124
The Gray Monsters were a variety of evil creatures of the earlier worlds. The Monster Slayers killed some, while others were done in by hail and windstorm. Pg 126
Big Centipede was another species of Navajo monster. This huge millipede, humped with many legs, leapt suddenly on its victims. The largest of these were slain by Monster Slayer. Zuni myth also featured a giant centipede who was shriveled by a bolt of lightning by the Twin Heroes--that's why today's centipedes look like burnt bits of fringed buckskin.
Was Big Centipede inspired by the sight of a fossil impression of Arthropleura, a six-foot-long centipede of the Corboniferous era? pg 127
According to Navajo myth, all the "slain monsters were beaten into the earth." pg 130
Real humans appeared only after the "Great Change," an extinction and evolutionary event ushered in by a great flood. Many First People were drowned, by others were transformed into modern mammals, reptiles, birds, fish, and insects. These retained some characteristics of their primal ancestors. pg147
According to Paiute tradition, a race of redheaded cannibals called Si-Te-Cahs once dwelled in the area around Lovelock, north of Reno, until the Paiute ancestors exterminated them with fire and smoke.... pg 151
The Paiutes told Powell that the stone logs were the enormous shafts of arrows unleashed by the Wolf-Thunder god, Shinarav, or Shinarump, an important force in the Ute origin myth. pg 159
Pikes Peak, for example, was created when Shinarump hurled gigantic rocks down to Earth, and many of his great battles occurred in the Petrified forest. pg 159
It's interesting that some of the Indians called petrified trees = arrows = stone logs. Their ancestors may have witnessed the lightning arrows and then saw the petrified trees soon afterward and concluded that they were the remains of the arrows from the sky. The other stories of large animals killed by lightning arrows and leaving only their fossils sure seems to give great credence to our theory that lightning transmuted bones into fossils.Hegewald explained that the "Great Father in Washington needed the specimens," and recorded the Navajos' "mystified" reaction: "Why would he want the bones of the Great Giant that their forefathers had killed years ago when taking possession of the country?" Pg 160
I think it is an exciting discovery that the legends in North America have so much about thunderbolts.
it is safe to start asking whether the myths are based on some common experience. And notice that I took the legends from widely separated geographic areas, the east and the Southwest. Add to the mix the fact that there were as many as 2,000 Native American languages here on this continent when the Europeans arrived. That is a considerable barrier to extensive sharing of oral tradition, one would think. So that may make the continuous theme of lightning killing the dinosaurs and megafauna that much more remarkable.
I would like to add the legends from the Central and South American Indians sometime soon, just for good measure.
Here are a few site worth noting;
* Legends about ammonites etc.
http://www.tonmo.com/science/fossils/my ... ythdoc.php
* Gemstones and myth
http://www.zianet.com/postpubco/stones.htm
* There may be better ones at this search.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=legend+O ... ccc08a197a
Dinosaurs and Man?
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/dinosaur.htm
Native Americans of the U.S. Southwest left a petroglyph of a large dinosaur. And I think Barry Fell mentioned an ancient American artifact that depicted a dinosaur. See also http://www.hope-of-israel.org/dinosaur.htm.
At this site http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio ... sicman.asp it says: The Liscomb Bone Bed has probably thousands of frozen unfossilized dinosaur bones — some of them have the ligaments still attached. This site http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosau ... jul18.html says
The Liscomb bone bed has produced the most important dinosaur remains from Alaska. We collected bones on and below the surface. We found both fossilized and unfossilized bones. We dug down about three feet to get to the bones frozen in permafrost. It was the frozen unfossilized bones we were seeking for our research, although we collected some fossilized bones as well. Both types were found together (I'm not sure how to explain it).
This site http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... 39641.htmlCarbon 14 is used to date fossils and other rocks that were once living things. Very precise dating from mass spectrometer analysis has substantiated the presence of Carbon 14 in dinosaur bones. Some have suggested that the samples became contaminated with modern Carbon 14. But it has also substantiated that Carboniferous coal carefully extracted from deep within mines still contains Carbon 14! This is dramatic evidence of youthfulness since all of the detectable Carbon 14 should have decayed within 100,000 years. (Baumgardner, Fifth ICC Paper, 2003.)
has some pretty good photos of human footprints in a rock layer that cross a line of dinosaur tracks in the same layer.
The reason for bringing up Dinosaurs and man is it's relation to the Saturn Myth which I will cover very soon.
Another much shorter related article is available at the Velikovsky Archive, however, it deals only with the mention of giant animals in Hebrew lore
http://www.varchive.org/ce/shamir/gianim.htm
I believe there is evidence of dinosaurs in the time of humans. But I have an open mind nonetheless. The bone bed in Alaska is most interesting as it is said to contain both fossilized and unfossilized dinosaur bones. The idea of electrical fossilization is intriguing, but how would some bones in a pit be fossilized and some not, even by electricity? And, if dinosaur bones exist that are unfossilized, doesn't that mean they're very young? Like 5 to 10 thousand or so years old? Apparently, the reason the unfossilized bones did not disintegrate is because they were frozen.
The bias against a young Earth and against dinosaurs living into the age of humans is amazing to me. It shows how far conventional dogma has brainwashed even many of the people here, who are otherwise seemingly more open-minded than average. I know this might be a little far out there.
:-\ 
