LDS Freedom Forum

Hi everyone,

I'm new on this forum and french, therefore sorry for my english.

I have a question about Hill Cumorah.
Moroni buried Golden Plates at Hill Cumorah, and Joseph Smith found these Plates near his home (East of USA). But they think that Nephites and Lamanites are pre-Columbian civilizations.
How could Joseph Smith dig up the Golden Plates near his home while those were buried in Mesoamerica ?
What is the explanation which the Church gives about that ?
Is there a precise explanation ?

Thanks for your help,
Frenkois.

Frenkois wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm new on this forum and french, therefore sorry for my english.

I have a question about Hill Cumorah.
Moroni buried Golden Plates at Hill Cumorah, and Joseph Smith found these Plates near his home (East of USA). But they think that Nephites and Lamanites are pre-Columbian civilizations.
How could Joseph Smith dig up the Golden Plates near his home while those were buried in Mesoamerica ?
What is the explanation which the Church gives about that ?
Is there a precise explanation ?

Thanks for your help,
Frenkois.

Bonjour, Fenkois. Soyez le bienvenu! :ymhug:

Pardon my French... I served a mission in France and Belgium, but my French is very rusty now...

About Cumorah...

The Church (I understand) has not taken a position on the specific location for the Book of Mormon setting, that is -- where the people were geographically located.

We are free to discuss the matter and it is a common theme in various threads here on the LDS Freedom Forum. I suggest you search for "Rod Meldrum" regarding the position that Zarahemla was located in North America, and for "John Sorenson" regarding the position that Zarahemla was located in Mesoamerica.

In both cases, the plates would be carried to the Hill Cumorah in NY state by Moroni during his later years as he fled from the Lamanites. I do not see a logistical problem there.
Best wishes,
Steven Jones

DrJones wrote:We are free to discuss the matter and it is a common theme in various threads here on the LDS Freedom Forum. I suggest you search for "Rod Meldrum" regarding the position that Zarahemla was located in North America, and for "John Sorenson" regarding the position that Zarahemla was located in Mesoamerica.

Ok, thank you. I will check these out.

DrJones wrote:In both cases, the plates would be carried to the Hill Cumorah in NY state by Moroni during his later years as he fled from the Lamanites. I do not see a logistical problem there.

Yes, agreed. I didn't think about escape towards NY, but yes it seems likely.

If you study the Book of Mormon in depth, including what the "land north" and the "land south" mean, and also what the sea east, sea west, sea south are, you will discover throughout the book that as the Jaredites migrated from the land north toward the land south and the Nephites/Lamanites migrated from the land south toward the land north, especially during all the battles, you will find that the histories are not confined to only MesoAmerica. I believe the land north and land northward as mentioned multiple times throughout the book refers to what is currently the eastern half of the United States and the land south or land southward refers to MesoAmerica and to a lesser extent, South America (Peru). The northern and southern continent, especially MesoAmerica is NOT today what it was then. The land changed GREATLY when Christ died. Many cities were sunk in the depths of the sea and were named by Christ, one by one, in the Book of Mormon and many places were buried by earth, some burned by fire, others made valleys others made mountains. Further studies of mine indicate that most, if not all these cities are what is now the Carribean Sea, under which, pyramids have been found deep underwater. I believe that entire region was the land of Nephi, which became filled with wicked Nephites before Christ showed himself in Bountiful, which by the way, I believe was somewhere north of Florida, Florida being the narrow neck of land that led to the land south before it nearly connected to the land Nephi, now underwater.

Without going into too many details, I firmly believe that the majority of the Nephite/Lamanite battles (especially with Helaman's army, Captain Moroni's army, etc) flowed upward toward Bountiful and all the land round about, which were fortified by throwing up huge mounds for fortifications. Then northward a way, was Ripliancum, which I believe are the great lakes and finger lakes and the hill Cumorah. By the way, it is this same hill, Cumorah, which was called Ramah by the Jaradites, and I believe it is this same Cumorah, which Moroni buried the plates for Joseph Smith to find. The Nephites and Lamanites had spread throughout the entire continental US, mostly toward the East, though from the narrow neck of land southward. Furthermore, many, many great mounds were found throughout the Southern states all the way up through Ohio. I may write more on the matter as time permits. But yes, the Nephites and Lamanites fought their last battles throughout the eastern states and probably the southern states as well. The Nephites/Lamanites had a century to populate both continents and if you read enough, especially in Ether, you'll see how the Jaredites had much longer to populate both the north and the south before they were cut off by poisonous serpents. I believe the Lord cut them off to make room for Lehi's family, but not before allowing enough Jaredites to settle some of MesoAmerican and South America. Lehi's and Ishmael's family were not alone when they landed and could not have populated the area so quickly. Zarahemla was already established by the people of Mulek, who had already had contact and much influence by the last surviving Jaredite of the great battle.

Fascinating...Coach, would you please point me to some sources of what you've shared. Thank you.

The Book of Mormon is the source. I've been carefully reading and listening to it over and over, paying attention to the travels of the the Lehites, Sons of Mosiah, the migration of the Nephites back and forth from Nephi to Zarahemla and then the contentions between the Nephites and Lamanites up through Christ's visitation and then at the end the final battles. I posted in the other thread the following points for research:

1. Lost city found beneath Cuban waters
2. Andros Platform
3. The Bimini Road
4. The Carribbean Tectonic Plate (I like this one)
5. American Mound Builders (Sounds like busy Nephites building "many new cities" and forts under Captain Moroni up north in Alma 49 and 50)

I'll draw up a map of how I envision the continent pre-Christ's visit. The only significant difference is the fact that the majority of the Carribean Sea/islands was above ground, constituting the original mesoamerica, being primarily the land of Nephi, which nearly connected to Florida at the time Lehi's family landed about the Isthmus of Darien. I've been meaning to draw up lots of maps to track all the different stages of growth of the Nephite and Lamanite civilization anyway.

Ahhh...nothing like getting it from the Book of Mormon itself. Thank you for sharing your research. This is like Christmas morning to me. I look forward to your map.

Thank you coachmarc for your answer.

You're welcome, Frenkois. Soberminded, in case you missed it, it's in the other thread, Book of Mormon Settings:

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