Rethinking Thinking

[A Random Phrase]

"As he thinketh in his heart, so is he." -Proverbs 23:7
The heart of repentance is correcting thinking, which then corrects feelings/intent & behavior.

I've always been interested in psychology, "the study of the soul", & believe it to be inseparably connected to spirituality.
When I was very depressed, I went to see a councilor, who gave me a list of common cognitive (thinking) distortions, like this:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2009/15-com ... stortions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Studies show that religion can either help or harm us mentally & even physically - based on interpretation of doctrine.

With the goal of optimum mental health and getting the most out of the gospel, I've taken a close look at cognitive distortions in relation to teachings I've learned in the church...

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.

I think women have gotten that perception more than men, but I don't think this kind of filtering has been intentionally taught in the church.

2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."

Very definitely, this seems to be rampant thinking. It is very difficult for humans, I think, to notice shades of gray, to see that no one is all good or all bad. I think this is human nature and has nothing to do with the church per se.

3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")

Another human race factor, not necessarily a factor monopolized by members of the church.

4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (ie articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically..Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)

A very bad habit, and one that got many prophets in old times killed. This, I believe, falls under the definition of the natural man that needs to be subjugated.

5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.

Rampant for obvious reasons.

6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.

Meh. Nothing to say here.

7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.

This reminds me: I was totally shocked when I found out that Catholics, Mennonites, and other religions had also been persecuted. I had been taught that we were the only ones, and that that was proof that we were God's only true church.

8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")

Yep.

9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)

Yep, to the "shoulds". There are so many I don't think I know them all.

10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)

Since messages from the Spirit can come through what we call "feelings" it can be a difficult thing to learn which "feelings" are only emotions and which "feelings" are bona fide messages from the Spirit. Only life, trial and error, and an intense desire to know what God is really saying can teach one the difference here (and we can't judge another in this thing because we don't live in their skin.)

11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)

I suppose this is around. I haven't noticed it much; it isn't part of my thinking (and many, if not all, of the above have been part of my thinking and maybe still are).

12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.

Oh, absolutely, but this also fits under polarized/black and white thinking

13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.

You know, it's really unpleasant to be wrong. It isn't fun to wake up and find that one's thinking is skewed, up-side down, malevolent, backwards, or wrong. We want to be right. It is very frightening to think we could be wrong because, if we are, maybe we cannot trust all that we thought was true. It may rip the foundation of "truth" out from under us. We may be afraid of being embarrassed, of discovering we're on the wrong side (or falling into the wrong side if we're convinced we are on the right side). Some kind of pain prevents us from readily admitting we may be wrong. This is where humility comes in handy. It keeps it from hurting if we're wrong.

14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life.

I have really struggled with this. If all a person knows is pain or horror or bad things, the culture shock if the reward for that is the complete opposite will be horrendous. How do we know to appreciate the good if we have never experienced it here?

[alexoyarzun]

Hi Thinker,
I love your post. And I see that you do "think" a lot. Well, I am just like you, especially years back, don't think much anymore. Over the years have developed a theory of Human Spiritual Development.
Here is a brief intro to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4v7U9KpgE8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also you might enjoy my website: http://www.thenewcovenantforthenewera.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thoughts on justice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rSVuuai ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can a christian be a soldier?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mR3UrZt ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey thinker, enjoy... and keep on thinking and better yet, keep on feeling and being... and remaining within the spirit of our Lord, that of unconditional love...

[Thinker]

"As he thinketh in his heart, so is he." -Proverbs 23:7
The heart of repentance is correcting thinking, which then corrects feelings/intent & behavior.

I've always been interested in psychology, "the study of the soul", & believe it to be inseparably connected to spirituality.
When I was very depressed, I went to see a councilor, who gave me a list of common cognitive (thinking) distortions, like this:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2009/15-com ... stortions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Studies show that religion can either help or harm us mentally & even physically - based on interpretation of doctrine.

With the goal of optimum mental health and getting the most out of the gospel, I've taken a close look at cognitive distortions in relation to teachings I've learned in the church...

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.

I think women have gotten that perception more than men, but I don't think this kind of filtering has been intentionally taught in the church.

2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."

Very definitely, this seems to be rampant thinking. It is very difficult for humans, I think, to notice shades of gray, to see that no one is all good or all bad. I think this is human nature and has nothing to do with the church per se.

3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")

Another human race factor, not necessarily a factor monopolized by members of the church.

4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (ie articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically..Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)

A very bad habit, and one that got many prophets in old times killed. This, I believe, falls under the definition of the natural man that needs to be subjugated.

5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.

Rampant for obvious reasons.

6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.

Meh. Nothing to say here.

7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.

This reminds me: I was totally shocked when I found out that Catholics, Mennonites, and other religions had also been persecuted. I had been taught that we were the only ones, and that that was proof that we were God's only true church.

8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")

Yep.

9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)

Yep, to the "shoulds". There are so many I don't think I know them all.

10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)

Since messages from the Spirit can come through what we call "feelings" it can be a difficult thing to learn which "feelings" are only emotions and which "feelings" are bona fide messages from the Spirit. Only life, trial and error, and an intense desire to know what God is really saying can teach one the difference here (and we can't judge another in this thing because we don't live in their skin.)

11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)

I suppose this is around. I haven't noticed it much; it isn't part of my thinking (and many, if not all, of the above have been part of my thinking and maybe still are).

12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.

Oh, absolutely, but this also fits under polarized/black and white thinking

13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.

You know, it's really unpleasant to be wrong. It isn't fun to wake up and find that one's thinking is skewed, up-side down, malevolent, backwards, or wrong. We want to be right. It is very frightening to think we could be wrong because, if we are, maybe we cannot trust all that we thought was true. It may rip the foundation of "truth" out from under us. We may be afraid of being embarrassed, of discovering we're on the wrong side (or falling into the wrong side if we're convinced we are on the right side). Some kind of pain prevents us from readily admitting we may be wrong. This is where humility comes in handy. It keeps it from hurting if we're wrong.

14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life.

I have really struggled with this. If all a person knows is pain or horror or bad things, the culture shock if the reward for that is the complete opposite will be horrendous. How do we know to appreciate the good if we have never experienced it here?

ARandomPhrase,
Thank you for your balanced perspective.
You reminded me that the experience of being a member in a place like Samoa is different than a place like Utah.
Many of my statements are "generalizations" in an attempt to analyze possible explanations of why Utah is leading the nation in anti-depressants.

I especially like what you wrote about appreciating the good.
"We don't go to heaven, we GROW to heaven."
Joseph Smith taught & it's written in the Book of Mormon... "that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world." - Alma 34:34
This makes sense... I don't understand exactly how the spirit & body are connected & then separated...
But I was just thinking that maybe it's like a balloon... the air within represents the spirit of us inseparably connected to God & all. The balloon, represents the human body form we take in life. The balloon is temporary - air is lasting. Of course there's more to us than that, but to symbolize it for understanding, I think that helps.
It is also inspiring to me to consider how faith is related to dark energy & matter - which is considered to penetrate everyone & everything in the universe... but it is invisible, known by it's influence on things like light... like "faith [which] is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." -Hebrews 11:1

[Thinker]

Hi Thinker,
I love your post. And I see that you do "think" a lot. Well, I am just like you, especially years back, don't think much anymore. Over the years have developed a theory of Human Spiritual Development.
Here is a brief intro to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4v7U9KpgE8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also you might enjoy my website: http://www.thenewcovenantforthenewera.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thoughts on justice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rSVuuai ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can a christian be a soldier?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mR3UrZt ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey thinker, enjoy... and keep on thinking and better yet, keep on feeling and being... and remaining within the spirit of our Lord, that of unconditional love...

Alexoyarzun,
Thank you for your positivity, encouragement & insights.
I look forward to looking into the links you mentioned.
You are also on the same line of thought I've been on the last couple of days, about spiritual growth.
Spiritual growth seems to be motivated by love, not fear or shame.
Yet, prioritizing pure love (truth, light & what is best in the big picture) can be scarey & make us question ourselves.
Thank GOoDness that we have the spirit to help guide & comfort us along the way.

And hopefully we learn to love others as ourselves & to be loved by others too.
I think this is not only tied to spiritual development but also to mental health.

[Thinker]

Just came across a quote relevant to this topic:

"Happiness comes from within, and not from without." -Milton R. Hunter

It goes along with what Jesus taught in Luke 17:20-21
"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

[Thinker]

When it comes to depression and suicidal thinking...
1) Depress means "to push down," so get up! Stay active - especially outside if possible.
2) Get enough sleep.
3) Eat well and drink enough water.
4) Take a multi-vitamin - and note which, if any, vitamins or minerals you need to supplement when you get a physical/blood work.
5) Reach out to someone - even if you don't feel like it, maintain mutual social support.
6) Write or talk about how you feel - without filter - just get it out and just by putting it to words can deflate exaggerated emotions.
7) Listen to your body - it has a lot of wisdom not just physically but also pertaining to your mental health. There is a reason why the placebo effect is the 1st test given for medication effectiveness. Mind-body metaphysics is not everything - but it is an important piece of the puzzle. http://www.vitalaffirmations.com/health ... oXu7-Ry670

[Thinker]

Hi Thinker,
I love your post. And I see that you do "think" a lot. Well, I am just like you, especially years back, don't think much anymore. Over the years have developed a theory of Human Spiritual Development.
Here is a brief intro to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4v7U9KpgE8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also you might enjoy my website: http://www.thenewcovenantforthenewera.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thoughts on justice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rSVuuai ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

can a christian be a soldier?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mR3UrZt ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey thinker, enjoy... and keep on thinking and better yet, keep on feeling and being... and remaining within the spirit of our Lord, that of unconditional love...

It’s been a while and I imagine you may have moved on, but I was reading your links and was really inspired! Thank you for sharing them. It also means a lot that you could see where I was coming from.

Regarding globalizing government can’t get much bigger, and individuals on computers, tv etc by themselves can’t get much smaller... that might point to a growing problem which may fully manifest in the future, if things continue as they are. Another clip about justice is related. I like your point about after developing conscious individual free will, returning (but with more wisdom) to unconscious collective whole (God). I’d like to share more about this at some point & hopefully get your & others’ feedback.

Regarding no true Christian soldiers, many good points. I respect military because I believe many serve with good hearts, but hurt or kill out of blind obedience. Ideally, a just nation with a just government doesn’t need military, and if it did, it would only act on defense, never offense. We know that’s been rarely the case in US war involvement. In reading some of your clip, I was reminded of Charlie Chaplin’s speech: https://youtu.be/KrYl76Yx6BY

The 3 often misinterpreted scriptures to try to justify Jesus supporting violence...
1) “I’ve not come to bring peace but a sword” As mentioned, the context shows that Jesus was not speaking literally but sybolically as in the sword of truth/gospel.
2) Regarding buying a sword... (Luke 22:36) You mentioned fulfilling prophecy, but I’d also say maybe it goes along with the original word translated to “meek” (in “the meek shall inherit the earth”) meant “sheathed/covered sword” which suggests that one needs a sword, or rather, ability to fight but does not exercise it because of self control.
3) Jesus whipping merchants out of the temple... As mentioned it is a bit puzzling, because it is the only time Jesus ever acted violent. But I think there are a few ways to consider it. He often called out religious leaders for their bad, hypocritical examples, & seemed to have disdain for those who burdened others for their own gain. Maybe it was symbolic as well as literal attempt to cleanse religion. And maybe symbolic also for each of us - to whip out the greed and other obstacles that corrupt our bodies/temples.

I love the U2 songs and the Opera song was amazing! Italian?
Also excellent scriptures you quoted - some of my favorites!

[Juliet]

They are the false spirits of religion.

[Ezra]

We cant solve problems using the same kind of thinking that we used to create them.
Albert Einstein

There has to be a shift. This shift can come in huge steps or small ones. Most of the time small ones.

I like one of the definitions of sin to describe this process.

Sin is in part defined as missing the mark. So for example in archery sin is missing the bulls eye.

Some people are shooting in the wrong direction. Some miss the target but are at least shooting in the right direction. Some hit the target but not the bulls eye. Some hit the bulls eye.

With most people though they all believe they are hitting the bulls eye with every shot.

They believe they are right. Then they learn a little more and realize they weren’t hitting the bulls eye. But then they again believe they are now with their new understanding.

I’m sure God laughs at our Naïvety.

One thing I love about some eastern philosophy is the teaching of having “no mind” or no self lables or expectations.
By having “no mind” one sees clearly without preconceived notions. They Tend to be more kind to people in general without having any biases due to race or religion or other preconceived judgements.

It’s definitely not an easy task. Take a ton metal work to drop all of ones judgements of them self’s. And ideas that have been planted for years and years. It’s a worthy goal for life and might take longer then we have here to do it. But I believe it’s possible in this life.

[Thinker]

We cant solve problems using the same kind of thinking that we used to create them.
Albert Einstein

There has to be a shift. This shift can come in huge steps or small ones. Most of the time small ones.

I like one of the definitions of sin to describe this process.

Sin is in part defined as missing the mark. So for example in archery sin is missing the bulls eye.

Some people are shooting in the wrong direction. Some miss the target but are at least shooting in the right direction. Some hit the target but not the bulls eye. Some hit the bulls eye.

With most people though they all believe they are hitting the bulls eye with every shot.

They believe they are right. Then they learn a little more and realize they weren’t hitting the bulls eye. But then they again believe they are now with their new understanding.

I’m sure God laughs at our Naïvety.

One thing I love about some eastern philosophy is the teaching of having “no mind” or no self lables or expectations.
By having “no mind” one sees clearly without preconceived notions. They Tend to be more kind to people in general without having any biases due to race or religion or other preconceived judgements.

It’s definitely not an easy task. Take a ton metal work to drop all of ones judgements of them self’s. And ideas that have been planted for years and years. It’s a worthy goal for life and might take longer then we have here to do it. But I believe it’s possible in this life.

Thanks, Ezra. I felt the spirit as I read what you wrote, & have been thinking about it. Really beautiful!
Great Einstein quote - we’ve got to think outside the box to get outside the box.

Good analogy about sin and missing the mark... it’s like we hit something and assume it’s the target when it may be way off. On another forum, someone asked what was one hurtful thing in my life & I explained how it was difficult living surrounded by people who would betray me if they discovered I don’t believe the same as them religiously. He mentioned the word, homophily (the tendency of individuals to associate and bond with similar others). When a mob is in mob mentality, “sin” is defined differently than an individual would define it. In such circumstances there is a great need to think outside the box. And as you implied, God laughs at our prideful ignorance of our own ignorance, because outside each box is another bigger box... As Moses and Socrates said, basically, the wisest is he who realizes how little he knows.

I think the essence of the “good news” is realizing there’s a higher and higher GOoD & having the courage to see how we may have missed the mark, so we can live & love better.
Today, a couple people I came across showed bad manners that initially hurt my feelings, but it helped me think through some things - a paradox.
1) I need to understand the “ugly betrayal truths” that we are all imperfect. I have been rude or inconsiderate at times too. I need to take my response-ability and let others take theirs. No human being can be unconditionally trusted, & some people need boundaries (The fact is that humans can potentially be horrible to each other)... yet
2) We need each other and must practice regular forgiveness (as the song came on, “Shake it off! Shake it off!”). Etiquette helps us trust one another, even if it is more considerate than honest and forthright. We need functional illusions.

If you would, please tell me more about no-self labels, no mind etc.

[David13]

I remember one time I was interacting with some young person, and I came up with a little mistake. I corrected the mistake, and commented "ah, not thinking, I guess".
The young person then showed me some wisdom, and said "no, maybe thinking too much".

Yes, sometimes we do think too much, over think a thing, or just get distracted from simple reality by revolving and spinning endless thoughts in our head, when reality is just a simple little thing that we must accept, like it or not.
dc

[BruceRGilbert]

"Rethinking Thinking"

In consideration of the "reference frame" that is the subject of thought, the possible things entertained by such are:
1.) Self; 2.) Others; 3.) Things; and 4.) Ideas.

A word about each topic:

1.) Self: The underpinnings of consciousness and awareness is that of existence and the task of identifying what one is; determining the boundaries with regard to abilities, as well as disabilities. We will spend our entire probation learning who we are and such things. The caution; however, is to not make our existence "egocentric" in the quest of causing everything to be about and for ourselves. The greatest affirmation has been - and it ought be recognized because it is also a "self" testimony: "I AM THAT I AM." I have been fortunate to learn that in communication: "Small people talk about small things, themselves."

2.) Others: "If I make allowances for myself, of necessity, I must make allowances for others." To think about other people is admirable if the "self-talk" is with respect to the recognition of the positive talents and abilities that they possess. It is for this reason that "judgment is meant for identification and not condemnation." Something, too, ought to be said about the need to "gossip" in communication and making others the topic of discussion.

3.) Things: How many people do we know that obsess over their "technology?" (Again, we can make each area of thought our "centrism.")

4.) Ideas: The Gospel is about some important "ideas" that need be incorporated in our lives.

(Perhaps, when I am not rushed for time and depending upon responses, more information can be shared.) Thank you for your time in reviewing this post.

[Ezra]

We cant solve problems using the same kind of thinking that we used to create them.
Albert Einstein

There has to be a shift. This shift can come in huge steps or small ones. Most of the time small ones.

I like one of the definitions of sin to describe this process.

Sin is in part defined as missing the mark. So for example in archery sin is missing the bulls eye.

Some people are shooting in the wrong direction. Some miss the target but are at least shooting in the right direction. Some hit the target but not the bulls eye. Some hit the bulls eye.

With most people though they all believe they are hitting the bulls eye with every shot.

They believe they are right. Then they learn a little more and realize they weren’t hitting the bulls eye. But then they again believe they are now with their new understanding.

I’m sure God laughs at our Naïvety.

One thing I love about some eastern philosophy is the teaching of having “no mind” or no self lables or expectations.
By having “no mind” one sees clearly without preconceived notions. They Tend to be more kind to people in general without having any biases due to race or religion or other preconceived judgements.

It’s definitely not an easy task. Take a ton metal work to drop all of ones judgements of them self’s. And ideas that have been planted for years and years. It’s a worthy goal for life and might take longer then we have here to do it. But I believe it’s possible in this life.

Thanks, Ezra. I felt the spirit as I read what you wrote, & have been thinking about it. Really beautiful!
Great Einstein quote - we’ve got to think outside the box to get outside the box.

Good analogy about sin and missing the mark... it’s like we hit something and assume it’s the target when it may be way off. On another forum, someone asked what was one hurtful thing in my life & I explained how it was difficult living surrounded by people who would betray me if they discovered I don’t believe the same as them religiously. He mentioned the word, homophily (the tendency of individuals to associate and bond with similar others). When a mob is in mob mentality, “sin” is defined differently than an individual would define it. In such circumstances there is a great need to think outside the box. And as you implied, God laughs at our prideful ignorance of our own ignorance, because outside each box is another bigger box... As Moses and Socrates said, basically, the wisest is he who realizes how little he knows.

I think the essence of the “good news” is realizing there’s a higher and higher GOoD & having the courage to see how we may have missed the mark, so we can live & love better.
Today, a couple people I came across showed bad manners that initially hurt my feelings, but it helped me think through some things - a paradox.
1) I need to understand the “ugly betrayal truths” that we are all imperfect. I have been rude or inconsiderate at times too. I need to take my response-ability and let others take theirs. No human being can be unconditionally trusted, & some people need boundaries (The fact is that humans can potentially be horrible to each other)... yet
2) We need each other and must practice regular forgiveness (as the song came on, “Shake it off! Shake it off!”). Etiquette helps us trust one another, even if it is more considerate than honest and forthright. We need functional illusions.

If you would, please tell me more about no-self labels, no mind etc.

No self lables.

I would call self lables as Satan’s number 1 best trick to fool us into thinking something is good when it’s in fact bad.

Any label you can put on yourself in a “I am __________” statement. Or almost any is actually bad and sin.

We must first judge ourselves to be one way in order to then judge others. Look down on them treat them differently. Every argument you have in your life comes from having these self lables , self judgement.

This is where Satan really does his trick. He get you to think it’s good to see yourself as smart wise kind respectful and so on. When people challenge that judgement it makes us offended. Plus we then look down at those “jerks” who challenge our treasured self lables. We judge them to be the opposite as us in those moments..

Take away your own self lables and judgements and you literally have nothing to argue over. You find you get along with everyone.

Plus this is part of Satan’s trick. When you see yourself as being something. Like respectful. Your not looking to become more respectful of others you already see yourself as being it. So your progress stops unless god blesses you with hardship which the uncomfort makes you try something different.

“No mind” takes that a step further. It goes hand and hand with what your saying of having the realization that we know so little.

We know the spirit speaks in a still soft voice. You might think of it as we have 2 minds. A logical one that thinks it knows things but it’s scope is limited to what we have learned in this life.
It’s our loud boisterous mind. And then we have a spiritual mind. It knows everything but we rarely hear what it has to say due to the loud logical mind.

By making the logical mind quiet we can hear the spiritual mind.

The logical mind will deny that it’s possible to do this. But through practice like mediation and other activities that make you zen out you can free the spiritual mind.

With enough practice you can access both minds at the same time. Be present in a conversation with people yet have access to your spiritual mind and know what ever you want about them. For me that only seem to work if I have good intentions. But by myself I can ask just about any question about anything and know the answer.
It would be nice to be independently wealthy and have the time to do this all the time. That and being surrounded by other who would want to do this too always helps motivate and keep ya focused. Life seem to get in the way of practice makes perfect.

[Thinker]

They are the false spirits of religion.

Yes. The challenge is shifting through to find the pearl - the true spirits of religion.
“There must needs be opposition in all thing,” religion included.

[Thinker]

David,
Good point about keeping things simple - not overthinking.

Bruce,
Thanks for bringing up types of thought. I suppose there are various ways you could categorize thinking. Sometimes, I’ve wished to have a sort of mental filing system. I realize I already kind of do, but to have it more organized and accessible would be nice.

I did consider some basic areas that I need/want to give attention to: social, physical, emotional, spiritual, financial, practical, intellctual.

[Thinker]

No self lables.

I would call self lables as Satan’s number 1 best trick to fool us into thinking something is good when it’s in fact bad.

Any label you can put on yourself in a “I am __________” statement. Or almost any is actually bad and sin.

We must first judge ourselves to be one way in order to then judge others. Look down on them treat them differently. Every argument you have in your life comes from having these self lables , self judgement.

This is where Satan really does his trick. He get you to think it’s good to see yourself as smart wise kind respectful and so on. When people challenge that judgement it makes us offended. Plus we then look down at those “jerks” who challenge our treasured self lables. We judge them to be the opposite as us in those moments..

Take away your own self lables and judgements and you literally have nothing to argue over. You find you get along with everyone.

Plus this is part of Satan’s trick. When you see yourself as being something. Like respectful. Your not looking to become more respectful of others you already see yourself as being it. So your progress stops unless god blesses you with hardship which the uncomfort makes you try something different.

“No mind” takes that a step further. It goes hand and hand with what your saying of having the realization that we know so little.

We know the spirit speaks in a still soft voice. You might think of it as we have 2 minds. A logical one that thinks it knows things but it’s scope is limited to what we have learned in this life.
It’s our loud boisterous mind. And then we have a spiritual mind. It knows everything but we rarely hear what it has to say due to the loud logical mind.

By making the logical mind quiet we can hear the spiritual mind.

The logical mind will deny that it’s possible to do this. But through practice like mediation and other activities that make you zen out you can free the spiritual mind.

With enough practice you can access both minds at the same time. Be present in a conversation with people yet have access to your spiritual mind and know what ever you want about them. For me that only seem to work if I have good intentions. But by myself I can ask just about any question about anything and know the answer.
It would be nice to be independently wealthy and have the time to do this all the time. That and being surrounded by other who would want to do this too always helps motivate and keep ya focused. Life seem to get in the way of practice makes perfect.

Thanks, Ezra.
I can see how clinging to labels can be damning - holding one back from progressing.
What you mentioned about quieting the logical mind to allow to give attention to the more subtle spiritual mind - reminds me of God being defined as I AM THAT I AM. It’s present tense... the idea that this current moment is all we experience since we don’t time travel - except in our imagination. Also, it points to the subtle awareness behind the superficial awareness. I was just listening to a talk by Jordan Peterson where he explained he, like everyone else, was not perfect in living his own ideals but what makes a person GOoD, is the process of striving to be better. We’re works in progress.

I looked into Zen a bit and felt like it was too detached, but it could be I and others were misinterpreting the intent. Detaching from emotions and labels can help, but I also think acknowledging and processing through emotions (validating and thinking through to check for cognitive distortions) is important. A good self-awareness helps in being aware of and loving others well. Understanding the complexity can help in avoiding slapping on a label as if to suggest that label encompasses the entire person.

I’m striving to have a firmer and firmer foundation by building it on truth - especially universal truth about humanity. That way, not only can I love others and myself better, but when I or others inevitably hurt me, I’m less thrown off by it. “In each of us is a bit of all of us.” One way of considering the at-one-ment is by following and doing as Jesus in taking response-ability for our own humanity - with all of the potential for good and evil and to understand truth to such an extent that you forgive out of understanding why people miss the mark.

I appreciate you kind of read my mind because I was going to ask you about meditation. I want to practice quieting my crazy mind more - to be more in tune with the spirit. Thanks for your insights! It helps to exchange ideas.

[Jamescm]

I offer a different perspective. I'm sorry if, in saying these things, I come off as harsh; my mindset and understanding are very logical and direct, and I am not skilled in communicating empathy, even though I feel it a great deal.

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.
Recognizing a truth isn't a psychological trap, it's simply acknowledging reality. The key is what you do about it. It is a truth that we are unworthy and not good enough; that is what the Atonement is for. There is no fretting necessary. Fretting about it is the trap; when given a dumbbell, you can lift it with proper form and grow, or you can panic and hurt yourself flailing it around or throwing it, when if you had just calmed down and used it properly, you would not have been hurt in the first place.

2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."
A Boolean is true or it is not. Everything Joseph Smith claimed is true or it is not; he did not declare some things that are true, then some other things that are not.
Spiritual growth is more curious, because it is not a logical Boolean. "You are growing toward the Lord, or away form Him." "If you are not increasing your talents, you are losing the ones you have." This is because there are influences playing on you at all times-if you are not actively seeking the Lord's glory, you are being tempted and pulled at to eventually, by some small degree, do or think otherwise.

3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")
This is not a problem that has been typical of members (or whites, for that matter) in my upbringings. It may be an issue on a local scale, but to spread it to the Church as a whole would be to, ironically, overgeneralize.

4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (i.e. articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically. Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)
Jumping to conclusions is not a Church problem, it is a human being problem. All demographics and classes of people jump to conclusions. In fact, it is the teaching of Christ's love and our own imperfection that has made me more conscious of fighting this in my own character than any other ideology or program.

5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.
This is also not a doctrine of the Church, merely an approach to it taken by some people, and by my observation, more frequently by members of other sects.

6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.
This is also a human problem, not a Church problem. Mormons try to relate and compare with famous Mormons, blacks try to relate and compare with famous blacks, women with women, and so on.

7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.
Everyone has hurt others, yes, but the degree of harm done to members of the Church in the past far exceeds the weight of harm committed by them. It is objective history, not a psychological distortion.

8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")
I haven't read that Jesus personally did many things particular to the Church, but it does not mean the He does not direct it. Disfellowshipment is used to help a person truly feel and understand the eternal weight of something grievous they have done, because we can't always know or understand the true spiritual weight of something done during mortality. This understanding helps us to repent of it-to turn away from it and desire it no more. Excommunication is performed pretty much exclusively on people who outright want it, whether or not they realize it.

9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)
This, of everything in your list, may well actually be a problem notably related to the Church on a cultural level, but is not unique to the latter days. Ancient Israel also created "rules" to protect people from breaking the actual "real rules". I don't know that struggling sexually is a common issue, though. I got over it in about ten seconds, but I doubt people who did have such an issue would be vocal about it upon asking. I do personally know multiple people who have had their power and service as a missionary compromised because of sexually related failings before or during their mission. Not dating before age 16 is one such mentioned "should", but the purpose of it is clear.

10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)
Occasional companionship of the Holy Ghost is not exclusive to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and said entity does not teach otherwise. The "gift of the Holy Ghost", however, is conditional upon receiving baptism and maintaining one's own worthiness. This is distinct from mere or occasional companionship by the spirit. This is a doctrinal assertion, not a psychological trapping.

11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)
We do not teach that we can forcibly change others. It is a doctrinal assertion, however, that a person's greatest capacity for happiness is to adhere to the gospel of Jesus Christ, making whatever changes to their lifestyle may be necessary. I have experienced this myself, even though it was not easy. This is not a psychological trap, it is a truth I have observed in my own life and in the lives of many others.

12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.
You were taught incorrectly, but it can be a hazy area because of the way this can be phrased. Beliefs "outside" the Church are not necessarily wrong; beliefs in conflict with the Church certainly are. God's word can be questioned, but doubting it doesn't make it not true.

13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.
This is a human problem, not a Church problem. One's spheres of association represent the individual to a degree, consciously or unconsciously. This extends to families, schools, places of employment, sporting teams one is a fan of, churches, cities, states, nations, races, sexes, you name it.

14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life. More energy & money is given to try to help those who have died, than those who are alive.
The Church donates tens of millions of dollars and a great deal of physical service to many people and organizations. That said, the purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not to be a charity, it is to provide for mankind the authority to administer the ordinances necessary for exaltation and eternal life. The fact is, mortality is short; the vast majority of our existence has occurred and will occur outside mortality's bounds. The relief of suffering here and now is glorious and we are called to help one another, but comfort and, at times, even survival for survival's sake are indeed secondary concerns. It would do me better to be killed a faithful saint than to live a long and healthy life by compromising my spiritual growth.

[Thinker]

Jamescm,
Thank you for your comments. I’m impressed that you quoted and replied to each listed cognitive distortion. Like you, I will be direct.

It’s as if you are denying logic - many of these cognitive distortions are also logical fallacies- just with different names. Your denial of church prejudice is actually denying scriptures in the Book of Mormon and Moses, equating righteousness with skin color - that’s racial prejudice. (3Ne 2:15, Moses 7:8 & Supporting slavery: D&C 134:12) Some of your replies remind me of mind-control I previously experienced like how you justified anti-Christ things like claiming the church of Jesus Christ is not about Charity and instead you gave your loyalty to the church over Christ’s teachings. You even gave amounts when the church keeps financials secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor - which breaks tithing-collectors command to give at least 1/3 of tithes to the poor (Deut. 14:29-29). Jesus commanded giving much more.

For most of my life, I was unaware I had been subject to mind-control. Some say brainwashing but that happens obviously - a person getting brainwashed knows they are getting brainwashed. A person influenced by mind-control doesn’t realize it because methods are gradual and subtle and often craftily play off of human weaknesses. And it would never refer to itself as a cult, even if it has characteristics of a cult.

Some characteristics of a cult:
“*The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
‪ *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
‪ *Mind-altering practices are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
‪ *The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry; or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear...)
‪ *The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered a special being, the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
‪ *The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality.
‪ *The leader is not accountable to any authorities.
‪ *The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
‪ *The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
‪ *Subservience to the leader or group.
‪ *The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
‪ *The group is preoccupied with making money.
‪ *Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
‪ *Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
‪ *The most loyal members (the “true believers” feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.”
http://csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

[The Airbender]

I have many thoughts on your post. I found it refreshing and along the same lines as conclusions I have come to. I am sure you will take some flak for this post. I already noticed your church activity has been questioned because you dared to think critically. I'll post my comments in purple

"As he thinketh in his heart, so is he." -Proverbs 23:7
The heart of repentance is correcting thinking, which then corrects feelings/intent & behavior.
This is really at the heart of it all, isn't it? I have had to spend a lot of time recognizing when things were incorrect thought and belief patterns in my life and not "wrong" or "bad" but things I was uncomfortable or ashamed of. So very many things in our lives are like this.

I've always been interested in psychology, "the study of the soul", & believe it to be inseparably connected to spirituality.
When I was very depressed, I went to see a councilor, who gave me a list of common cognitive (thinking) distortions, like this:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2009/15-com ... stortions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Studies show that religion can either help or harm us mentally & even physically - based on interpretation of doctrine.

With the goal of optimum mental health and getting the most out of the gospel, I've taken a close look at cognitive distortions in relation to teachings I've learned in the church...

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.

Aren't we so very good at minimizing the good we do and dwelling on the bad? We beat ourselves up over nothing and fail to recognize that we have contributed at all.

2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."

I have heard people use this argument to "prove" that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet. "How could he be a prophet if he was involved in treasure seeking, started and lost a store, encouraged people to invest in a failed bank, etc, etc. I have caught myself doing the same, seeing errors in church leadership and nearly jumping to the conclusion that the church has fallen into apostasy. There are so many layers but we want either one or the other.

3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")
4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (ie articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically..Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)

"This makes me feel uncomfortable, so it must be from Satan." I've heard that one many times.

5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.
6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.
7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.
8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")
9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)

Oh don't even get me started. I think of this as the "hedge about the law" of the Latter-day Saints. We want to be told all the little things we can and can't do and do not rely on the spirit to direct us. This leads to endless lists of things kids are brought up being shamed about.

10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)
11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)

Did you know that co-dependence is an actual addiction? I once learned an amazing principle from the book Power in Praise. It discusses how unhealthy it is for us to go to God asking for him to change someone. The opposite is the key. We have to learn to become grateful and able to love someone no matter how they act or what choices they make. That is when the true power is unleashed from above.

12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.

And this is the opposite of the truth. Brigham Young taught that truth can be found anywhere, including hell itself. And we are not supposed to rely on our leaders. We are supposed to take the Holy Spirit as our guide and learn to hear his voice so that we can test all things, even the words of the leaders of the church, against the voice of the spirit.

13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.
14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life. More energy & money is given to try to help those who have died, than those who are alive.

Utah (predominantly Mormon - aprox 70-80%) leads the nation (is #1) of all the United States in anti-depressant use.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/ ... 0918.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNe ... ylT44HhdDk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Although Utah has less issues with alcohol, they have substantially more mental illness problems than most states.

I've been told by several people that I should run to a psychiatrist anytime I feel depressed. I have chronic depression issues but I refuse to take pills to correct it. I know that is not what I am supposed to do.

Any thoughts on all of this thinking?

[kirtland r.m.]

I offer a different perspective. I'm sorry if, in saying these things, I come off as harsh; my mindset and understanding are very logical and direct, and I am not skilled in communicating empathy, even though I feel it a great deal.

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.
Recognizing a truth isn't a psychological trap, it's simply acknowledging reality. The key is what you do about it. It is a truth that we are unworthy and not good enough; that is what the Atonement is for. There is no fretting necessary. Fretting about it is the trap; when given a dumbbell, you can lift it with proper form and grow, or you can panic and hurt yourself flailing it around or throwing it, when if you had just calmed down and used it properly, you would not have been hurt in the first place.

2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."
A Boolean is true or it is not. Everything Joseph Smith claimed is true or it is not; he did not declare some things that are true, then some other things that are not.
Spiritual growth is more curious, because it is not a logical Boolean. "You are growing toward the Lord, or away form Him." "If you are not increasing your talents, you are losing the ones you have." This is because there are influences playing on you at all times-if you are not actively seeking the Lord's glory, you are being tempted and pulled at to eventually, by some small degree, do or think otherwise.

3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")
This is not a problem that has been typical of members (or whites, for that matter) in my upbringings. It may be an issue on a local scale, but to spread it to the Church as a whole would be to, ironically, overgeneralize.

4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (i.e. articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically. Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)
Jumping to conclusions is not a Church problem, it is a human being problem. All demographics and classes of people jump to conclusions. In fact, it is the teaching of Christ's love and our own imperfection that has made me more conscious of fighting this in my own character than any other ideology or program.

5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.
This is also not a doctrine of the Church, merely an approach to it taken by some people, and by my observation, more frequently by members of other sects.

6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.
This is also a human problem, not a Church problem. Mormons try to relate and compare with famous Mormons, blacks try to relate and compare with famous blacks, women with women, and so on.

7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.
Everyone has hurt others, yes, but the degree of harm done to members of the Church in the past far exceeds the weight of harm committed by them. It is objective history, not a psychological distortion.

8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")
I haven't read that Jesus personally did many things particular to the Church, but it does not mean the He does not direct it. Disfellowshipment is used to help a person truly feel and understand the eternal weight of something grievous they have done, because we can't always know or understand the true spiritual weight of something done during mortality. This understanding helps us to repent of it-to turn away from it and desire it no more. Excommunication is performed pretty much exclusively on people who outright want it, whether or not they realize it.

9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)
This, of everything in your list, may well actually be a problem notably related to the Church on a cultural level, but is not unique to the latter days. Ancient Israel also created "rules" to protect people from breaking the actual "real rules". I don't know that struggling sexually is a common issue, though. I got over it in about ten seconds, but I doubt people who did have such an issue would be vocal about it upon asking. I do personally know multiple people who have had their power and service as a missionary compromised because of sexually related failings before or during their mission. Not dating before age 16 is one such mentioned "should", but the purpose of it is clear.

10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)
Occasional companionship of the Holy Ghost is not exclusive to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and said entity does not teach otherwise. The "gift of the Holy Ghost", however, is conditional upon receiving baptism and maintaining one's own worthiness. This is distinct from mere or occasional companionship by the spirit. This is a doctrinal assertion, not a psychological trapping.

11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)
We do not teach that we can forcibly change others. It is a doctrinal assertion, however, that a person's greatest capacity for happiness is to adhere to the gospel of Jesus Christ, making whatever changes to their lifestyle may be necessary. I have experienced this myself, even though it was not easy. This is not a psychological trap, it is a truth I have observed in my own life and in the lives of many others.

12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.
You were taught incorrectly, but it can be a hazy area because of the way this can be phrased. Beliefs "outside" the Church are not necessarily wrong; beliefs in conflict with the Church certainly are. God's word can be questioned, but doubting it doesn't make it not true.

13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.
This is a human problem, not a Church problem. One's spheres of association represent the individual to a degree, consciously or unconsciously. This extends to families, schools, places of employment, sporting teams one is a fan of, churches, cities, states, nations, races, sexes, you name it.

14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life. More energy & money is given to try to help those who have died, than those who are alive.
The Church donates tens of millions of dollars and a great deal of physical service to many people and organizations. That said, the purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not to be a charity, it is to provide for mankind the authority to administer the ordinances necessary for exaltation and eternal life. The fact is, mortality is short; the vast majority of our existence has occurred and will occur outside mortality's bounds. The relief of suffering here and now is glorious and we are called to help one another, but comfort and, at times, even survival for survival's sake are indeed secondary concerns. It would do me better to be killed a faithful saint than to live a long and healthy life by compromising my spiritual growth.

Lot's of great comments on this tread! I would add that there is a reason why that old wise very large trout is harder to catch than that little "planter" just put there by the fish and game. Wisdom is awesome. I tell people that I have earned every wrinkle, ha, ha. Learning by the school of hard knocks is an education indeed. Line upon line.
Also check out this quote. President John Taylor commented: “I heard the Prophet Joseph say, in speaking to the Twelve on one occasion: ‘You will have all kinds of trials to pass through. And it is quite as necessary for you to be tried as it was for Abraham and other men of God, and (said he) God will feel after you, and He will take hold of you and wrench your very heart strings, and if you cannot stand it you will not be fit for an inheritance in the Celestial Kingdom of God’” (in Deseret News [Weekly], 29 Aug. 1883, 498).
This quote above is included in the best lesson I have ever read on adversity. I hope you can find the time to read it.https://www.lds.org/manual/the-latter-d ... y?lang=eng

[Thinker]

I have many thoughts on your post. I found it refreshing and along the same lines as conclusions I have come to. I am sure you will take some flak for this post. I already noticed your church activity has been questioned because you dared to think critically. I'll post my comments in purple

"As he thinketh in his heart, so is he." -Proverbs 23:7
The heart of repentance is correcting thinking, which then corrects feelings/intent & behavior.
This is really at the heart of it all, isn't it? I have had to spend a lot of time recognizing when things were incorrect thought and belief patterns in my life and not "wrong" or "bad" but things I was uncomfortable or ashamed of. So very many things in our lives are like this.

I've always been interested in psychology, "the study of the soul", & believe it to be inseparably connected to spirituality.
When I was very depressed, I went to see a councilor, who gave me a list of common cognitive (thinking) distortions, like this:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2009/15-com ... stortions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Studies show that religion can either help or harm us mentally & even physically - based on interpretation of doctrine.

With the goal of optimum mental health and getting the most out of the gospel, I've taken a close look at cognitive distortions in relation to teachings I've learned in the church...

1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative...In church, I've gotten the message that I am not good enough, no matter how much I serve & give & that even if I do a lot & don't pay tithing to the church but instead to the poor, I am unworthy.

Aren't we so very good at minimizing the good we do and dwelling on the bad? We beat ourselves up over nothing and fail to recognize that we have contributed at all.

2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix) - BI-POLAR thinking: "The church is either true or not." "You are either on the Lord's side or you aren't."

I have heard people use this argument to "prove" that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet. "How could he be a prophet if he was involved in treasure seeking, started and lost a store, encouraged people to invest in a failed bank, etc, etc. I have caught myself doing the same, seeing errors in church leadership and nearly jumping to the conclusion that the church has fallen into apostasy. There are so many layers but we want either one or the other.

3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening - (Prejudice - racial & of "non members")
4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts -(spiritual feeling interpreted to mean church is completely true, when it may be just a particular personally inspiring aspect... I was taught that if something did not fit neatly into dictated beliefs (ie articles of faith or GA statements) then, it should be discounted automatically..Also, many members assume that people who go "inactive" have done something wrong or are somehow misguided for leaving the church & such people are thus shunned & treated badly.)

"This makes me feel uncomfortable, so it must be from Satan." I've heard that one many times.

5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster - "LAST DAYS!!!" Fear of God and Satan.
6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing - Many take celebrities & political figures as if they represent them personally, because they are Mormon.
7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control) - ie story of Joseph Smith being victimized, when he also hurt others.
8. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain - (I've never read that Jesus ex-communicated nor disfellowshipped even "the least of these.")
9. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept (Too many "shoulds" to name. One incorrect shaming is about sex, so many Mormons even struggle sexually after marriage)

Oh don't even get me started. I think of this as the "hedge about the law" of the Latter-day Saints. We want to be told all the little things we can and can't do and do not rely on the spirit to direct us. This leads to endless lists of things kids are brought up being shamed about.

10. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't) - (I've been taught that Mormonism has a monopoly on the companionship of spirit.)
11. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true) ... (There is the teaching that "non-members" are lacking and must change to our ways, as if our way is the only way and that if we convince someone to go our way, we will be happy.)

Did you know that co-dependence is an actual addiction? I once learned an amazing principle from the book Power in Praise. It discusses how unhealthy it is for us to go to God asking for him to change someone. The opposite is the key. We have to learn to become grateful and able to love someone no matter how they act or what choices they make. That is when the true power is unleashed from above.

12. Global Labeling - Generalizing - I was taught that anything outside the beliefs of the church is wrong, but everything said by church leaders is God's word and should not be questioned.

And this is the opposite of the truth. Brigham Young taught that truth can be found anywhere, including hell itself. And we are not supposed to rely on our leaders. We are supposed to take the Holy Spirit as our guide and learn to hear his voice so that we can test all things, even the words of the leaders of the church, against the voice of the spirit.

13. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct - (This goes along with Personalization - where members perceive any praise or criticism of the church as praise or criticism of them, obvious on forums - not just between members and non-members but even within members.
14. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life. More energy & money is given to try to help those who have died, than those who are alive.

Utah (predominantly Mormon - aprox 70-80%) leads the nation (is #1) of all the United States in anti-depressant use.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/ ... 0918.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNe ... ylT44HhdDk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Although Utah has less issues with alcohol, they have substantially more mental illness problems than most states.

I've been told by several people that I should run to a psychiatrist anytime I feel depressed. I have chronic depression issues but I refuse to take pills to correct it. I know that is not what I am supposed to do.

Any thoughts on all of this thinking?

Thanks again for your comments. It’s good to know you see truth in this.
I too, have struggled with depression yet haven’t taken anti-depressants.
I know there is a place for meds, but I like to have as clear a grip on reality as possible, so I can feel pain I have, so it can be healed.

I can also relate with codependency so that book looks interesting. I imagine many struggle with confrontation and saying no.

More and more, I realize the need to be able to discern between good and bad, healthy, unhealthy, reality and one’s own thinking/feeling... and all the while realizing it’s not all-or-nothing but often a complex mix.

You mentioned something that I want to think about more because I might improve my parenting from it. Shame and blame can come from micro-managing, when going by the spirit of laws inspires a more responsible use of free agency. I do see the church beginning to go in that direction which is good. It reminds me of a study that sought to know what, if any influence religious involvement had on physical healing. Of 3 groups, those not religiously involved and those excessively religiously involved did poorest. Those moderately involved religiously did best.

[Thinker]

[David13]

Sometimes it is just that simple.

I've heard it said that any one of us only ever has 3 possible problems. Our relationship with ourselves. Our relationship with other people. And our relationship with God the Father.
dc

[Thinker]

Sometimes it is just that simple.

I've heard it said that any one of us only ever has 3 possible problems. Our relationship with ourselves. Our relationship with other people. And our relationship with God the Father.
dc

I like that! Coincidentally, this morning, as I was considering how to simplify and categorize a list of affirmations, I thought of those 3 areas. It’s essentially the greatest commandments (love God, love others and love self).

[Thinker]

There are many cognitive distortions and logical fallacies but I think they can be narrowed down to about 5 types of distorted mental filters (with ways to correct them)...

1) All-or-Nothing thinking/Magnification/Disqualifying Positive/Labeling
To correct: Consider other possibilities, see both the good and bad but focus on good, & remember all are fallible human becomings and children of God.

2) Jumping to Conclusions
To correct: Consider other factors and perspectives.

3) Personalization/taking things personally/taking on others’ responsibility
To correct: “Forgive them for they know not what they do” - often others are oblivious as to how they may hurt others - we all have been at times. Believe in your & others’ need & ability to handle own responsibilities.

4) Emotional Reasoning (letting feelings dictate too much)
To correct: Identify feelings and express thoughts to sort them out. As my son teases me in quoting, “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” Try humor too.

5) Shoulds/shaming for not reaching a level of perfection - of self &/or others
To correct: Have realistic expectations, realizing we all are works in progress & that joy needs to be part of life. Consider what is most important - prioritize Godly values.