new member of the church

[prorobert8]

Hi, im a new convert to the LDS Church. It was my Christian Constitutionalist Conservatism that led me to the Restored Gospel. However, i have found many younger members getting seduced into Occupy Wall Street and Barack Obama. They claim that the Law of Consecration is equivalent to Marxism and that capitalism is not in harmony with the Restored gospel.
Can someone help me here? Whats the story and truth behind the Law of Consecration and the United Order?

[creator]

This article addresses some of your questions based on teachings of Church leaders: FAQ: Is Socialism Wrong? And What is Socialism? Hope that helps.

[uglypitbull]

Hi, im a new convert to the LDS Church. It was my Christian Constitutionalist Conservatism that led me to the Restored Gospel. However, i have found many younger members getting seduced into Occupy Wall Street and Barack Obama. They claim that the Law of Consecration is equivalent to Marxism and that capitalism is not in harmony with the Restored gospel.
Can someone help me here? Whats the story and truth behind the Law of Consecration and the United Order?

Welcome aboard!

First, and most importantly....the United Order and the Law of Consecration are voluntary, whereas Marxism is not.

Here is another good read on it (with examples of early church using it).... http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6126" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

W. Cleon Skousen gave a great talk on it too.

[BroJones]

Welcome.

This article may also help -- it explains a lot regarding OWS:
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jborow ... cus-on-the" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Excerpt:

I’ve been closely following the loosely organized Occupy Wall Street protests on social media sites over the past few weeks. Now, I’m all for citizen activism and freedom of assembly, but I’m still unconvinced that most of these protesters know what exactly they're protesting. They’re angry about the state of the economy and rightfully so. While I sympathize with their frustration towards our weak economy, their anger is largely misdirected. They would be better off to pick up and move their protests down a few blocks to the New York Federal Reserve building.

Many of the Wall Street protesters are holding up anti-capitalism signs that read “capitalism doesn’t work” and “capitalism oppresses love.” These posters are grossly illogical because we have never even had a capitalist system. The United States economy is better described as a mixed economy, an admixture of capitalism, corporatism and socialism. Interviews with protesters on the ground suggest that they do not comprehend the difference between capitalism and corporatism. It’s an odd sight to see a bunch of individuals in Che Guevara shirts (who was a murderer, by the way) with fancy iPads and Mac laptops protesting so-called capitalism.

Capitalism is often regarded as a dirty word for all the wrong reasons. The greatest economic system in the history of the human race has a bad rap mainly due to a fundamental misunderstanding of capitalism itself. The term essentially means economic freedom. Individuals are free to make their own choices on what to own, produce, buy or donate. Milton Friedman was correct in saying that, “underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.” All other economic systems are characterized by central planning and control, which rests on state coercion.

Those who equate capitalism with corporatism are making a huge mistake. Corporatism is a system where businesses are allegedly in private hands but are actually controlled by the government. In a corporatist state, the government often grants special privileges and favors to big businesses such as bailouts, tariffs and subsidies. Many top Wall Street executives like to consider themselves “capitalists” as they live off of the taxpayer’s dime. None of these sweetheart deals would exist in a pure free market capitalist system. Businesses would be forced to sink or swim on their own merits. As the famed Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises stated, “what pays under capitalism is satisfying the common man, the customer. The more people you satisfy, the better for you.”
.....

[PunaGabe]

Welcome to the site!

[serenitylala]

Welcome!


Communism and socialism are Satan's counterfeits to the liberties and law of consecration from God.

The law of consecration (or a Zion society) is based upon the love of Christ and having the fulness of the gift of charity within our hearts. People use their agency to give to others and there is a reciprocation... Everyone does their part. The society becomes so cohesive that there is an almost apparent loss when a member is lost. So in a Zion society people aren't lost, they are either translated as in the city of Enoch, or they are changed in a twinkling as will occur in the millenium.

The principles behind the law of consecration are the Law of the Christ which includes the law of sacrifice and the law of the Gospel. These laws are based on your ability to choose righteousness and obedience to Christ yourself based on hungering and thirsting after righteousness. These laws then lead you to the true and change of heart spoken of by King Benjamin in Mosiah 5 and by Alma in Alma 5... which leads a person to sanctification in an individual purification process. Individualism is praised and encouraged, because it is your unique gifts and traits that make you special.

All uniformly agree that Christ is Lord and King not only because of His power and glory, but also because of His great atoning sacrifice... in a sense everyone agrees that Christ is King because He earned it. If a person doesn't agree with this fact then they are allowed to leave, which results in spiritual death... this case the decision was all upon the person's choice.

Communism and socialism are based on oppression by a few, where the agency and rights of people to choose are taken away. When a person is lost from society, the population are actually more relieved because they can spread that person's wealth to others. It is a forced social obediance not based on individual progression, but based on the dictates of men in government.

These principles are based on the fact that mankind must be controlled due to the fact that men can't be trusted to decide for themselves. It is a hedonistic or self-centered egotistical approach that believes certain men are superior in intellect than others and that everyone else can not think adequately enough to make "correct" decisions. A government is either put in place by a coup d'etat or force, or through election... either way, there is not an unanimous agreement that the governing party should be governing... many are forced into accepting the new government and then forced to follow their laws. Punishments are death and imprisonment of the body... not by the person's choice, but by the governing factors.

People are forced to share, thus hindering their progression in that premise and often times promoting a feeling of selfishness and self-preservation rather than a sense of community well-being. Individualism is discouraged and often punished, everyone is to look and act the same. No individual growth is encouraged, instead it is repressed and the government creates a society of slaves rather than a society of gods.

The main perspective is the difference between the Savior's and Satan's plans:

Savior: The plan of happiness is based on training people to become Gods themselves and to inherit all that the Father hath. Progression is founded in agency and growth. Many will be lost because they CHOOSE not to follow the path, but they are allowed their choice. Although, everyone is given the opportunity to choose the right.

Yet, at the same time a great sacrifice is made to atone for and redeem them from death (for everyone) and from sin for those that repent and come unto Christ. Gods are made in this plan. More glory is added upon the Father because His children are exalted and that gives Him glory.

Satan: A plan of oppression and compression. Everyone is forced into "goodness". Although no one is "lost", no one is permitted to progress. No one can decide to hunger and thirst after righteousness. No one can decide to do what is right. The decision is made for them and as a result no one progresses and no one becomes gods. There is no Eternal sacrifice made on behalf of mankind. Instead Satan desired the glory all to himself, not for his brothers and sisters that he planned to so-called "save" and especially not for God the Eternal Father. Because when the Father's children aren't exalted, He is not given extra glory, because His work and His glory is to bring to pass the immortality and Eternal life of man.

In this plan there is no death, because there is no life. Their is no loss of people because there is no exaltation of people. It is a plan of servitude and it only makes slaves with one ruler, satan. So hence communism and socialism were created by wicked men influenced by the adversary.

[prorobert8]

Surprisingly, in my ward, our new Elders quorum president is an avowed Marxist, English PhD candidate. I know that people are given callings by revelation. But how could someone who is covertly teaching lies given keys to preside over elders?

[serenitylala]

Well... I was told this once by a GA:

Callings are made by five things: inspiration, or desperation or relation or situation or revelation

So you have a 2 in 5 chance that he was actually called of God... 50% of those cases are so that the person called can learn a lesson.
You have a 3 in 5 chance he was called of man.

[serenitylala]

I forgot to add this:

The way you can tell by which source he was called is two-fold:

1. Prayer and a witness
2. His fruits.