Muhammed, the Muslim prophet

[chase]

Noah did NOT visit Mohammed and instruct him to start the Muslim faith. That did NOT happen - Noah was as familiar with the Truth as any man who ever lived.

Does that mean that Mohammed did not have any divine truth? Of course not, he had plenty. But it means that the "angel" who visited Mohammed was no angel, any more than were the beings who visited Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddy, or any other founders of such religions. The followers are sincere, in most instances good, and possess truths that sometimes are not yet possessed in the gospel ... but they are false religions founded upon false revelation by someone masquerading as an angel of light.

Perhaps Noah DID visit Mohammed and DID instruct him to restore the gospel. Perhaps the people who followed Mohammed failed to maintain that covenant. The truth is we do not know. So to say conclusively that Mohammed was NOT inspired by a divine mandate or to say conclusively that he DID receive a divine commission is ignorant. Mohammed was either inspired or uninspired, and we just do not know if he was or not. We assume that he was not because Islam "looks" different than we suppose the gospel should look. Well, if we saw the Kirtland and Nauvoo church it would look very different to us than Mormonism looks today. People fail to maintain the gospel covenant all throughout scriptural history, and therefore, their religions take on a different "look." To say that Islam was originally uninspired would be just as ignorant as saying that modern Judaism sprang from a wholly uninspired source or Catholicism sprang from a wholly uninspired source. Both were mistaken interpretations of a true religion. Is it a far-fetched idea that Islam too may be a mistaken interpretation of a true religion / revelation? The difference is that we may not have record of the supposed restoration attempt through the prophet Mohammed. The revelations given in our dispensation do not give us the right nor even the clearest lens through which to view the past. In the end, if we are truly honest with ourselves, we don't know if Mohammed was inspired or not, but it is hard to say that it would be inexcusible for him to have a visionary revelation while maintaining that Joseph did. If you disagree with this post, that's fine, but I would like for someone to show any evidence that Mohammed did not have any sort of revelation.

[AussieOi]

i understand our official position is that he had a portfolio of gods light given to him

we say the same about luther and others like that

whether we actually believe that or not i dont know. in truth it may just be an olive leaf statement. we are good for them

[ndjili]

In the end, if we are truly honest with ourselves, we don't know if Mohammed was inspired or not, but it is hard to say that it would be inexcusible for him to have a visionary revelation while maintaining that Joseph did. If you disagree with this post, that's fine, but I would like for someone to show any evidence that Mohammed did not have any sort of revelation.

I dont think anyone is denying Muhammad had visions and revelations...but rather asking who the source was. God is not the only one who gives revelation....But Satan will try as well...masked as an angel of light. We are given the sign to tell a false prophet...by their fruits ye shall know them.

[jimmy k]

It has been said on this thread that God gave muhammed a portion of light.
If he did do you not think that he would have given him the most important portion of all.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD and any religion that does not reconise or teach this
has NO FOUNDATION AT ALL.
You want to know if the koran is true pray about and if the Spirit testifys to you that it is true then you have your answer. But make sure the right spirit is testifying to you.

[Book of Ruth]

It has been said on this thread that God gave muhammed a portion of light.
If he did do you not think that he would have given him the most important portion of all.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD and any religion that does not reconise or teach this
has NO FOUNDATION AT ALL.
You want to know if the koran is true pray about and if the Spirit testifys to you that it is true then you have your answer. But make sure the right spirit is testifying to you.

Thank YOU!!!!! Only Satan would create a religion that directly teaches against Jesus Christ being the Son of God!!!!!

[ndjili]

“By every possible means he seeks to darken the minds of men and then offers them falsehood and deception in the guise of truth. Satan is a skillful imitator, and as genuine gospel truth is given the world in ever-increasing abundance, so he spreads the counterfeit coin of false doctrine. … [As] the ‘father of lies’ he has … become, through the ages of practice in his nefarious work,” such an adept “that were it possible he would deceive the very elect.”

We know that there is available to each of us the gift of the Holy Ghost—the power of revelation which embraces the gift of discernment by which we may unerringly detect the devil and the counterfeits he is so successfully foisting upon this gullible generation.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/02/satan ... scriptures

[mes5464]

I don't care what anyone else says, Sharia law in America is bad. See the case in point.

US Judge rules Muslims have a right to assault people who offend them
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=49740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chase]

chasetafer0707
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I can see this becoming just a back and forth about things you say that I disagree with and vice versa. Thanks for your replies.

It’s the back and forth where we can understand each other’s position, chasetafer0707. I am not trying to be combative just trying to understand your position while expressing mine. I am not sure where you stand on Islam and the prophet Mohammed. I get the impression you believe that he could have been a prophet who receive revelation from God and that the religion he started deviated from his teachings.

Can I ask a few direct questions to more understand your position?

Do you believe that Mohamed received revelation and was visited by angles?

Are the Qur’an and the hadith scripture, written by inspiration and direction from God just as the Bible and Book of Mormon were?


Joseph Smith is a good example of a prophet who was called of God to restore His church on earth. He claims to have seen God, record scriptures (B of M, D & C), and receive revelation to start a religion. There is not middle point where it comes to the truth. Either Joseph Smith was a charlatan and made up his visions and wrote fiction calling them scripture OR he did as he says and translated ancient records of God’s people from this continent and was visited by God and Jesus Christ himself and was commanded to restore His Church. I believe and know he did and that through Joseph Smith the Priesthood and Christ’s Church was restored and we have living prophets again on the earth to guide mankind.
The same goes for Mohammed. Either he did receive revelation from God, was visited by angles, and wrote scripture OR he did not. One or the other occurred, both cannot be true.

I don't feel like you are combative. It's just that I don't feel like many people are apt to agree with my assessment of Mohammed, and I just thought I'd bow out of the debate now, rather than 10 posts from now after arguing the same point back and forth. But since you asked me some questions, I'll answer them. Thanks for your interest in my opinion.

I think it is possible that Mohammed received revelation and was visited by angels. Whether he did or not, is a question of history, not of opinion.

I have not read the religious literature of Mohammed, but I suspect if it were authentic at the time it was first reduced to writing, that it too, like the Bible, would be subject to mishandling, misinterpretation, mistranslation, and malicious rewriting.

As far as Joseph Smith as a comparison, I believe that in his ministry there are many points at which he could have deviated from the Lord's proscribed course. We have one example with the 116 pages and possibly a few more, that actually occurred. So I don't think that being a prophet is a black and white picture. I don't think that a man receives a prophetic calling and then stands above the mortal tendency to err. Joseph really struggled during his life, not just with external trials, but with understanding and applying doctrine. I think polygamy is a wonderful example of this. He was a man, and the path he walked was flawed, just as any man's. He encourages his followers not to rely too heavily upon him (Nauvoo--May 26 1842), but to rely upon God. Thus we see, that while Joseph was an inspired prophet and while his words are indispensible for counsel and doctrine, we would do well to place our faith in Christ alone and to measure all of Joseph's words carefully under the lens of both scripture and personal revelation by the Holy Ghost. He was a great prophet, but he was mortal and susceptible to all sorts of human frailty. Furthermore, the Old Testament is an abundant witness that the callings of every prophet are not always the same. God calls prophets to fulfill differing roles throughout history, not the exact same role in all cases. Thus, we cannot judge Mohammed's ministry by direct comparison or contrast to Joseph's.

Mohammed was similar to Joseph in a few regards, however. They were both human and subject to like weaknesses. They both claimed to have had heavenly visions. They were both, directly or indirectly, founders of a religion. Both of the religions they founded appear very different today from the point at which they were founded. Whether Mohammed completed a faithful ministry or got sidetracked and fell away from his mission at one point, I don't know. I believe Joseph was faithful to his sacred calling, but I don't believe that it would have been impossible for him to fall, if he strayed too far from the path. And so I have compassion for Mohammed, whether or not he had heavenly visions and had a divine mandate. I can't be that judge, so in the meantime I'll take him at his word, or at least what I perceive his word to be. I am not a follower of Islam, nor am I a follower of a man who was maybe a prophet (Mohammed). However, I don't judge Mohammed based upon the mistakes of his followers or those who claim to be (modern Islam). Could he have been a false prophet? Yes. Could he have been inspired? Yes. Could he have failed in his ministry? Yes. Could he have succeeded in his ministry and subsequently his followers failed? Yes.

I concede, my opinion would hold more weight if I had actually read some of the Koran. I don't think I would be content just to rely upon other men's interpretations of the book in forming my own opinion of it, however.

I agree with your last statement. "Either he did receive revelation from God, was visited by angles, and wrote scripture OR he did not. One or the other occurred, both cannot be true." It has to be one or the other. However, you have not accounted for our ability to misinterpret what happened. Yes, he either was a prophet and wrote scripture OR he was not and did not. This statement IS black or white. However history often IS NOT black and white. You have to wrestle with historic questions as well, and that is where things get misty. "Did the Koran get tampered with?" "Did his followers obey or disobey his teachings?" etc. So the question is not so simple when you compound it with the shortcomings of millions of people that came after Mohammed. The study of this question could occupy scholars for their entire lifetimes, and I don't plan on being one of them. Therefore, I'm not too inclined to continue to speculate too much farther, except to say that I really don't know, but I err on the side of giving Mohammed the benefit of the doubt because I see common threads between he and Joseph. Who am I to judge?

[InfoWarrior82]

It's possible there was an apostasy with the origins of Islam. It could have been pure revelation which was immediately lost and corrupted. Mohammed, as I understand, was illiterate and had others keep the records.

[iamse7en]

For what it's worth...

"I have heard Joseph Smith, Jr., say that he believed Mahomet was a good man; that the Koran was not a true thing, but the world belied Mahomet, as they had belied him, and that Mahomet Was A True Prophet!!" (George M. Hinkle, Correspondence and Orders, 1841, p.128)

Soon after the dissenters were driven away from Caldwell county, I was in Far-West, in Corill’s [Corrill's] store, perhaps the last of June last, and heard Joseph Smith, jun., say, that he believed Mahomet was an inspired man, and had done a great deal of good, and that he intended to take the same course Mahomet did; that if the people would let him alone, he would, after a while, die a natural death; but if they did not, he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the State of Maine. (Testimony of George Walter, in James H. Hunt, Mormonism: Embracing the Origin, Rise and Progress of the Sect, with an Examination of the Book of Mormon)

I have heard the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was not let alone he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mahomet, whose motto, in treating for peace, was” the Alcoran or the Sword,” so should it be eventually with us, “Joseph Smith or the Sword.” These last statements were made during the last summer. (Affidavit of Thomas B. Marsh, Richmond, Missouri, October 24, 1838)

[gdemetz]

FAIR has some interesting insights into those alleged statements. In my own opinion, I think that the second hand information got upgraded from an inspired man to a true prophet. Also, some of the other second hand statements were given by members that were at the time estranged from the church, and FAIR mentions that some were recanted later. I also think, as FAIR points out, that some of the bolder statements were for the benefit of their enemies. Also, if Mohammad were really a true prophet, then Islam which he founded should be a true religion. However, under close examination it is clearly just another part of the church of the devil if Nephi is to be believed.