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Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 4:51 pm
by firefighter007
I need a little advise today. Without going in to the specifics of the matter I have had some very strong promptings and impressions over the last several months. Now I realize that they all lead to nothing. I can't help but question the power of revelation at this point in time. I can't help but think that I was making it all up in my head. The last time I felt this way was when my father found out that he had cancer. I gave him a blessing that he would be ok... he beat the cancer only to pass away two days later from liver failure. I know that things are done in Gods time and in Gods way and things usually don't work out the way that we expect them to but this latest disappointment has really left me questioning whether or not God really does have his hand in all of this. I hate to even admit that I am feeling this way but I know that if there ever was a group that could help me put things in perspective it is you guys on LDSFF.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 5:10 pm
by AussieOi
firefighter007 wrote:I need a little advise today. Without going in to the specifics of the matter I have had some very strong promptings and impressions over the last several months. Now I realize that they all lead to nothing. I can't help but question the power of revelation at this point in time. I can't help but think that I was making it all up in my head. The last time I felt this way was when my father found out that he had cancer. I gave him a blessing that he would be ok... he beat the cancer only to pass away two days later from liver failure. I know that things are done in Gods time and in Gods way and things usually don't work out the way that we expect them to but this latest disappointment has really left me questioning whether or not God really does have his hand in all of this. I hate to even admit that I am feeling this way but I know that if there ever was a group that could help me put things in perspective it is you guys on LDSFF.

hope all is better
elder oaks talk last year on blessings is a critical read
you may reconsider this sentence "I gave him a blessing that he would be ok"
maybe that will add context

other perspectives
a) you were just wrong
b) you misunderstand/stood something
c) things change

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 5:15 pm
by Silas
When I was on my mission my companion and I were called to give a blessing to a woman who was sick with cancer. My companion blessed her that she would be healed. Two days later she died. It really bothered me but didn't seem to affect him at all. To make a long story short I had a dream that where I perceived that this woman was being taught the gospel on the other side. I woke up with the strongest feeling from the spirit that she had indeed been healed, but that it was her spirit that needed healing not her body. I knew that that message came from the spirit.

If you ever have a prompting that you aren't sure of then just do it and you'll find out. My wife and I have had to deal with a lot of difficulties with health and not being able to have children. We have had clear promptings from the spirit to not do things that doctors were suggesting. We had no reason why other than that the spirit warned us not to. That isn't easy to follow and we still don't understand completely why we were so prompted but we will trust heavenly father. We have both been promised children by our patriarchal blessings and other blessings. We know we will be parents eventually but it has been the greatest trial that we have faced so far in our lives. I like to think about Job a lot. There are two things Job says that I hope to be able to say honestly in my own life. "...the LORD gave and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." (Job 1:21) and "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him" Job 13:15

I don't know how helpful that is to you, but I want to testify to you that I know that God is mindful of you. He is watching you and he has a plan for your life. Even when it doesn't make sense just trust in him and know that when all is said and done you will be able to look over things and see how a merciful God has guided you through your life. He is there and he cares.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 5:45 pm
by bobhenstra
Three and a half years ago I lost my wife to ovarian cancer, she had 60 chemo and 26 radiation treatments plus numerous blessings, she still passed away. My youngest Daughter had a real hard time with her Mom's passing, Mom received blessings, why didn't she live? Now, three and one half years later she's starting to understand, she's realizing that (finally) everybody dies, and now she's more prepared for when I die.

Her main problem "is" she forgot how to recognize the Spirit. Before Jo got sick my daughter read the Book of Mormon all the time, now she says it's a boring book, she hasn't learned yet how to re-recognize the Spirit, it's influence upon us, but now she's dating an RM, he's slowly reminding her how to recognize that Spirit she was once familiar with----

Many times in life we make decisions that prove to be wrong, I've taken jobs I shouldn't have taken, and turned down jobs I wished I had taken, it's all part of mortal experience! But one thing that doesn't help is worrying about past decisions/mistakes, we should learn from them and let them go! Move on, make every attempt to do better. But learning how to recognize the Spirit is the first step.

Easiest way I have learned is to read a few chapters of the Book of Mormon, ponder what I've just read, then get on my knees and pray about my ponderings. you most likely won't get past 1st Nephi before you will have learned to recognize the Spirit. From that point on, just pray about what your contemplating and you'll do just fine. You'll still make mistakes, but you'll discover it's much easier to repent and overcome your mistakes. You'll learn that the Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean tabernacle, and when you have learned to recognize the Spirit you've been cleansed.

Actually, it's pretty simple, sometimes I'm reminded of people who work harder at trying to get out of work than just doing the job required, seeking the Spirit just isn't that hard! You are a Child of the Most High (John 10:34, 82nd Psalms) work on living up to those promises.

Bob

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 8:20 pm
by Rand
firefighter007 wrote:I need a little advise today. Without going in to the specifics of the matter I have had some very strong promptings and impressions over the last several months. Now I realize that they all lead to nothing. If you followed them, that may be what it was all about. How can you say they lead to nothing? The game of life isn't over. Be patient and wait on the Lord. I can't help but question the power of revelation at this point in time. I can't help but think that I was making it all up in my head. The last time I felt this way was when my father found out that he had cancer. I gave him a blessing that he would be ok... he beat the cancer only to pass away two days later from liver failure. I know that things are done in Gods time and in Gods way and things usually don't work out the way that we expect them to but this latest disappointment has really left me questioning whether or not God really does have his hand in all of this. I hate to even admit that I am feeling this way but I know that if there ever was a group that could help me put things in perspective it is you guys on LDSFF.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 11:13 pm
by Gideon
firefighter007 wrote: I can't help but think that I was making it all up in my head.
That may be the problem. If it was only in your head, that doesn't seem to fit what the scriptures say:

12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.
13 Verily, verily, I say unto you, I will impart unto you of my Spirit, which shall enlighten your mind, which shall fill your soul with joy;
14 And then shall ye know, or by this shall you know, all things whatsoever you desire of me, which are pertaining unto things of righteousness, in faith believing in me that you shall receive.
(Doctrine and Covenants 11:12–14‎)‎

2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
3 Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation;
(Doctrine and Covenants 8:2–3‎)‎

Written for translating ancient records, but still applicable:
6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.
(Doctrine and Covenants 9:6–9‎)‎

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.
(Alma 32:28‎)‎

The Book of Mormon makes it clear that we should pray to get the Spirit before we lay on hands for anything.

One last scripture to think about:

43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy.
44 And the elders of the church, two or more, shall be called, and shall pray for and lay their hands upon them in my name; and if they die they shall die unto me, and if they live they shall live unto me.
(Doctrine and Covenants 42:43–44‎)‎

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 12th, 2011, 11:58 pm
by firefighter007
Thanks for your thoughts. I do need to say that the blessing of my father was just an example of the last time I felt lost like this. I got over that because I am well aware that my interpretation of healed is different than Gods. I know that he is still alive and well and that I will see him again.

The thing that leaves me feeling confused now is different. I do not care to go into it in detail but what I can say is that for the last year I have felt especially close to the spirit. More so than any point in my life so far. I have studied hard and taken everything to the lord. And as I have spent time on my knees I received conformation after conformation. I have really taken time today to ponder what has happened and I can't explain it. I feel that I have followed every road sign there was and when I arrived at my destination I found a dead end. Now I know that there are no dead ends, just forks in the road... I just need to figure out which way the Lord wants me to go.

One of the posts above mentions Job. That really touched me. If Job could continue in the faith after all that was taken from him certainly I can overcome a little confusion. I do know however, that good fruits have come from this. I feel that I know the doctrine better now than ever and that I am a better person for it. I am able to give much better lessons at church and have had members of my class confirm this and thank me for it. And I am a much better example to my loved ones than I have been in the past. After taking some time to really sit back and evaluate things I am grateful for all of this. I am still confused however as to what it all was pointing to, but I guess if the Lord really was guiding me towards something then I guess he will continue to show me the way... it just may take a little longer than I had expected.

Thanks again for your input. It really helps!

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 12:33 am
by linj2fly
firefighter007 wrote:Thanks for your thoughts. I do need to say that the blessing of my father was just an example of the last time I felt lost like this. I got over that because I am well aware that my interpretation of healed is different than Gods. I know that he is still alive and well and that I will see him again.

The thing that leaves me feeling confused now is different. I do not care to go into it in detail but what I can say is that for the last year I have felt especially close to the spirit. More so than any point in my life so far. I have studied hard and taken everything to the lord. And as I have spent time on my knees I received conformation after conformation. I have really taken time today to ponder what has happened and I can't explain it. I feel that I have followed every road sign there was and when I arrived at my destination I found a dead end. Now I know that there are no dead ends, just forks in the road... I just need to figure out which way the Lord wants me to go.

One of the posts above mentions Job. That really touched me. If Job could continue in the faith after all that was taken from him certainly I can overcome a little confusion. I do know however, that good fruits have come from this. I feel that I know the doctrine better now than ever and that I am a better person for it. I am able to give much better lessons at church and have had members of my class confirm this and thank me for it. And I am a much better example to my loved ones than I have been in the past. After taking some time to really sit back and evaluate things I am grateful for all of this. I am still confused however as to what it all was pointing to, but I guess if the Lord really was guiding me towards something then I guess he will continue to show me the way... it just may take a little longer than I had expected.

Thanks again for your input. It really helps!
firefighter, This whole paragraph reminded me of Zion's Camp.....You said in your OP that you can't help thinking that you made it all up in your head, yet you've just testified of receiving confirmation after confirmation. Think of the brethren that were thinking 'huh?' when Joseph said, 'we're not fighting, men.' (and then seeing God literally fight their battle FOR them) and "now we're going back to Kirtland" (instead of reclaiming their lands in Missouri as planned). Was not this event a sifter? Despite being a 'failure' in terms of the planned goal at the beginning of the march, this event was a refiner's fire, and many eternally significant things were learned and gained. You so much as stated many, many fruits as a result of the past several months.

My cowboy husband went back to school a few years ago when Pres. Hinckley said 'get all the education you can get.' He went into nursing after receiving a confirmation (though, it wasn't as 'powerful' as he would have liked). Now we're on this side of his bachelors, and he has a job, thankfully, but he hates it. He's been praying for 3 years now for help and direction about graduate work (anesthetist vs. nurse practitioner), and while he's had some help, he's had no confirmation. It's been very discouraging for him. He often thinks that he's just not made to get personal revelation, something that Satan tries to convince us of, according to Elder Scott. He does, in fact get personal revelation, just not a yes or no on this one yet. He's said several times in the past month or two that maybe he went down the wrong road. This is a dead end. He has second-guessed every frequent confirmation we had during his 4 years of school. It's just been this week, after reading Elder Scott's Oct 2009 talk on revelation, and re-reading patriarchal blessings that've we've been blessed with new eyes and are again moving forward and receiving revelation on what to do, including confirmation that we did not go down the wrong path.

Even when we do make mistakes in judgment and discernment, like Bob said, we can learn from them. All things will work together for our good.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 4:08 am
by JohnnyL
Lots of really powerful sharings here, thanks.

Two stories I've enjoyed:
One year I was fed up with the bureaucracy et. al. at BYU, and seriously considering to switch to the U of U. I got all the materials and info I needed (catalogs, visited, etc.), and was leaning more and more that way. On the way home, had a distinct impression to call someone. When we stopped at a gas station I did so, and he said, "Don't go" and gave his reasons. I got home, worked, and was still thinking about what to do. My mind was drawing blanks; neither option was getting anywhere. Ha, ha! That week (maybe even that day?) my mom was talking on the phone with a church friend who was asking her what I was going to do, and my mom said I was going to stay home this semester and work. WHAT??!! No WAY! Who told her that?!? Then after a moment, I laughed and thought, Yes, that IS what I am going to do! An option I hadn't considered; no wonder I wasn't getting revelation on which of my two choices was the right one! I stayed, and it was wonderful in so many ways.
One time after being at BYU for about two semesters I was praying to start dating to get married, as I hadn't been diligent in this endeavor. As soon as I was done, I very strongly felt that I needed to call an acquaintance/ friend in my ward and go to the temple with him (no, I'm not a girl, I'm a guy) that week.
I did so. He said, "[D], this sounds weird (I had told him why I was calling), but I feel impressed to go. Let's do it." We set a time and went. I kept looking around--you know, all those temple marriage stories... Lol. Well, I kept looking, trying to avoid it but still looking, looking, no one... I started reading a little. It wasn't until I had forgotten many minutes later that my friend turned around and started talking to a girl. I kept reading, and... talking to A GIRL!! I turned around, and saw HER. Wow! Great! We listened to them talk a little. In the celestial room, we ran into her again, my friend introduced us, we talked a moment. I asked my friend about getting her number, he called her to ask her if it was ok, she said ok.
We dated a few times, it wasn't the best... Then we broke up--before getting very far!!!! What?! I was pretty hurt not by her, but by the crushing of my expectations and what I knew had been spiritual promptings. (Ok, I'm glad it wasn't her, really, and I already kind of knew it, but still...)
WHAT HAD HAPPENED? Ok, I humbled myself and prayed about that, and then something else came up... I had prayed to help others. And I had! She had gone from being scarred and scared (horrible experience--engaged to a stake president's son, and more but I won't share here), from never wanting to marry--to feeling like dating again (my friend, not me, but he wasn't interested in her.) Even more significant: Much later I found out that she had gotten married in October (we had stopped seeing each other at the beginning of July), in the temple. Wow!!
To MY expectations, it had been a failure. But I hadn't failed GOD. And in the process, I had learned a lot, I was better prepared, I had started out on my difficult journey towards marriage, I had answered others' prayers, and I had answered my own prayers!

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 7:59 am
by kathyn
JohnnyL, thanks for those two stories. Our ways are not the Lord's ways. Many times we don't realize that the Lord has answered prayers, because we are seeking a different outcome.

I've made so many mistakes in life but those mistakes turned out to be great learning opportunities. Perhaps, firefighter007, this was about obedience and proving yourself. I really don't know, but you will probably figure out why in the future. Sometimes, it has taken me years to see the Lord's hand in my life, even when I felt abandoned. And then I realize that I never was walking alone.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 10:54 am
by mattctr
Keep praying and reading your scriptures. Assuming that you didn't misunderstand or misinterpret feelings as promptings, I think some revelations that seeming lead to nowhere still may serve a purpose in the grande scheme of things:
> Did it prevent us from another, wrong course of action?
> Does it serve as a trial of faith and WILL we to continue to trust and seek the Lord even more diligently? (prayer, scriptures, & ordinances)
> Does it set the stage and leave us positioned for some other blessing(s) to come later?
> Does it humble us?
> Does it teach us any lessons that lead to greater faith?

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 1:03 pm
by tmac
Firefighter, I really feel for you. I've had a very similar experience over the course of the past couple years, and have likewise been very troubled by it. As I have continued to fast and pray and study and work, though, I feel like I'm gaining better understanding, and have often been comforted and strengthened in my trials.

In 2010, after already experiencing the essential failure of a big real estate project that I had been working on for over five years, I felt prompted to go a completely different direction, and worked very hard, and for very long hours, for almost the entire year, on a new venture. I also invested many thousands of dollars in that new project. During much of that time I felt like I was being guided, directed and prompted. Consequently, at the time I felt very sure of what I was doing. At a certain midpoint in the process I was approached by someone who offered to acquire (buy) my position in the venture for an amount that was not as much as I was anticipating making in the venture, but would have reimbursed all the money I had invested, and compensated me reasonably well for my time. I prayed about it, and felt prompted to decline the offer. At that point, I was very optimistic about what would happen -- in a project that involved much more than just money (i.e., double or triple bottom line). Within six months, however, that project had completely withered on the vine and was going no where, and to this day has not been able to get off the ground. That was extremely confusing and discouraging for me, and I asked many of the same kinds of questions you're asking. Why all of that -- to come to nothing?

Since then, I have had a lot of other challenges, many of which have stemmed from the time, effort and resources I had invested in the other projects. I have pursued many different options, some of which I felt prompted to pursue, but none of which have yet materialized or amounted to anything according to my way of thinking. At many points along the way I have felt like I was spinning my wheels and floundering, which I have been. And I have often struggled to understand why the Lord would let me flounder in such a way -- which is something I've never really experienced before.

Consequently, the past year has been a real trial for me, financially and otherwise. But in the end, it has also been a great experience. It has been very humbling. It has tested my faith in ways I've never experienced before. But at this point (and I don't hardly dare say I'm completely out of the woods yet), I am starting to see and understand more and more "method to the madness," if you will, and what is going on. Although it has been very painful, I can see more and more that it is and has been best for me.

Something else I have realized is that virtually everything that has happened has involved the exercise of agency and freedom of choice -- both by me, and others. The reason some things haven't turned out is because of how others have exercised their agency, which I have no control over. And, as I look back on some things, in retrospect I have often come to realize that if things had turned out the way I wanted them to, when I wanted them to, in my own perceived "wisdom" at the time, it would have been a wreck. Although in some ways I have felt like I have experienced some wrecks, I have also been able to see that because of timing, new realizations, new opportunities, etc., that in fact the Lord is watching over everything, and in the end things do make sense.

As others have said, God's ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. His timeline is rarely out timeline. And His will is often contrary to our will. What must Lehi have been thinking when he was directed to leave Jerusalem? By the time his life ended, do you think he would have felt like things were working out? And what must Ishmael, who died even sooner, have thought? And what about Abinadi, who after following the direction that he had been given was able to rebuke and withstand attempts to take his life, until his message was finished, and then the Lord allowed him to die as a martyr?

One thing I have taken consolation in is the fact that when I have felt prompted I have acted on the promptings. Things haven't always worked out, but at least I can humbly submit to the Lord that to the extent I hear and understand His voice and feel prompted to do something, I am willing to do it. Sometimes I don't feel like the voice is near as loud or as clear as I would like it to be.

At this point, the thing that I have actually experienced more than anything is a lot of trial and error. I pray earnestly for direction. But I have learned that I can't just sit and wait to receive it on a silver platter. Sometimes, I have to reason things out, and think things through the best I can, ask for confirmation -- which believe it or not, I don't always experience -- and then make a decision, and start down the path of my choice, and usually not by tepidly sticking my toe in the water. In retrospect, despite my best efforts to be completely guided and directed in every move to make, the thing that I have probably experienced by far more than anything else is that I get shut down and corrected when it's not meant to be. I'm starting to get a better feel for that all the time.

Continue to pray for comfort and understanding. That has helped me.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 1:28 pm
by Original_Intent
tmac,

May I offer without claiming revelation for you that you are being made ready for Zion? When you talk about some of your problems being the result of other peoples agency, and sometimes your own - this resonates precisiely with what I have been going thru the past few years.

I believe that when we go to "track 2" as many here are calling - it will not be an easy transition and it will not be without bumps. However, I believe we are being blessed to be shown the failings of the Babylon model, we are being exposed to what it motivates people to do - and I believe the ultimate purpose for this is to help us thru those difficult transitions. We may all be learning to make do with MUCH less than we are accustomed to. We may see vestiges of Babylon clingong to ourselves and others and I think we will need to be quick to forgive others and quick to repent when we see it in ourselves.

Eventually I do believe that the Zion model will be so much more rewarding, satisfying and will accomplish good works that we barely can conceive of now.
It sounds like you are concentrating on what you can learn from these trials - I am trying to do the same. Keep up the good work.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 3:28 pm
by rlyman22
Hopefully, the following quotes will help:

John Pontius - Following the Light of Christ into His Presence
We must remember that Father has a single purpose in our lives, which is to bring us to exaltation. Anything which moves us nearer to that goal is valuable, even pain and suffering. From His divine perspective, worldly possessions, jobs, careers, health, happiness, even life itself, is expendable if the outcome is exaltation. After we share His divine viewpoint, we will shout praises to His holy name for his wisdom and love. Until then, we see through a glass darkly, and our trials seem immense.
The best way to ease life’s trials is to take the Holy Spirit as our guide. The trials still come, it is just that with the Lord’s guidance through the Holy Spirit, we will know how to handle them. We will learn the lessons quickly, and each trial will end sooner, the relief will be sweet, and the strength gained will be exalting.
The most difficult and devastating way to deal with opposition is to press forward into righteousness with all the vigor we possess, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The opposition will arise according to divine law, and without guidance, we will be battered and buffeted, confused, weakened, and disillusioned. Righteousness will not seem to be worth the price required to gain it. In fact, powerful righteousness cannot be achieved this way, and the price is too high, because we simply are incapable of paying it.

James Allen – As a Man Thinketh Vol II
"Immediately as the resolution to walk a higher path is made, temptation and trial begin. Men have found that no sooner have they decided to lead a truer and nobler life than they have been overwhelmed with such a torrent of new temptations and difficulties as makes their position almost unendurable; and many men, because of this, relinquish their resolution. But these temptations and trials are a necessary part of the work of regeneration upon which the man has decided, and must be hailed as friends and met with courage if the resolution is to do its work."

Richard G Scott – To Acquire Spiritual Guidance
I am convinced that there is no simple formula or technique that would immediately allow you to master the ability to be guided by the voice of the Spirit. Our Father expects you to learn how to obtain that divine help by exercising faith in Him and His Holy Son, Jesus Christ. Were you to receive inspired guidance just for the asking, you would become weak and ever more dependent on Them. They know that essential personal growth will come as you struggle to learn how to be led by the Spirit.

I would highly recommend reading the following books:
Following the Light of Christ into His Presence -- John Pontius
The Triumph of Zion -- John Pontius
Conversing with the Lord through the Veil -- Denver Snuffer
Experiencing the Mighty Change -- Hal Wilcox and G Randall Klimpt (free download http://toddjumper.com/ETMC/etmc.htm )

Good Luck and don't get discouraged.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 4:19 pm
by tmac
Great thoughts OI and RLyman. And it helps add perspective to everything. One thing that I have found very interesting is that as I have gotten more earnest about seeking to know the Lord's will, and in my prayers, and to repent and change myself and be more worthy of guidance and direction and the help I seek, it seems like the intensity of the trials has actually increased. It's like the old saying about praying for patience.

In that connection, in response to one of my posts on another thread I did get a PM, which I thought was real good, so I'm going to pass part of it along for others to consider:
I count myself incredibly blessed enough to be found worthy to be “tried by fire”. It’s a lot better than being ignored! (kind of painful sometimes though)

Another quote I find very helpful. President Howard W. Hunter. “If you have troubles at home with children who stray, if you suffer financial reverses and emotional strain that threaten your homes and your happiness. If you must face the loss of life or health, may peace be to your soul. We will not be tempted beyond our ability to withstand. Our detours and disappointments are the straight and narrow path to Him’. … ‘when through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie, my grace all sufficient shall be thy supply, the flame shall not hurt thee; I only design thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine.” (How Firm A Foundation)

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 6:05 pm
by bbrown
This may or may not relate to your situation, but I had about a year of what I thought at the time was great confusion before meeting my husband. I should explain that this same type of thing does happen throughout my life still, but in this era it was in close succession and more obvious. I had definitely been prompted towards certain goals, and when nearing each end goal in turn, was clearly told it wasn't right. Talk about confusing! Each time I would be confused for a while, question what was going on and what on earth I should do instead, and each time I would receive a new answer (and for that year atleast, a new goal). Each ended about the same way...a hoped-for marriage to my best friend (who died young), serving a mission, attending paramedic school, etc, etc. It seems so clear now, but it took me quite a while to actually understand what was going on. The spirit was prompting me towards a certain goal, I'd venture down that path, and it was the path that was important and good for me, not the goal itself. The spirit was NOT being confusing in its promptings, I was confused due to my finite interpretation and understanding. I couldn't understand the difference between being prompted to "attain" the goal and "reach for" the goal. Society teaches us that we reach for a goal to obtain it, and if we do not attain we have failed. And even that if you can't expect to attain, it is a waste of time/energy to reach for it. The Lord doesn't see it that way...much of what we're instructed to seek for in this life of significant eternal import often cannot be fully attained in this life, and blessings are predicated upon our efforts and searching here and now. "My ways are higher than your ways saith the Lord" comes to mind...

CB

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 13th, 2011, 7:17 pm
by JohnnyL
One thing that I have found very interesting is that as I have gotten more earnest about seeking to know the Lord's will, and in my prayers, and to repent and change myself and be more worthy of guidance and direction and the help I seek, it seems like the intensity of the trials has actually increased.
We just studied that in the seminary manual! Exodus 5?

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 14th, 2011, 6:54 pm
by Zowieink
I believe that everyone in this forum has had the same type of thoughts from time to time. I am reminded, like Bob, of when my wife went through the cancer treatments and in the end pass away even as the doctors were writing a cancer free letter to the insurance company! The second bout was fast and we only had 2 weeks together after we knew it was fatal. I prayed so hard, I cried until there was nothing left. Our patriarchical blessing both said we would see the millineum together and that we would not lie in mother earth but changed in a twinkling of and eye. More was stated, but you get the idea. There, a few days before she died, I stood. I spent my days pleading with God to save her, through the power of the priesthood. However, in a moment of complete spiritual clarity, I knew that I had to power to heal her, but the authority came from God. If I wanted to heal her, I could (and I felt to power enter my mind and body and knew, with absolute certanty that if I laid hand on her head she would be healed. However, I also knew that it was against God's will, that she was needed for a great work on the other side. I agonized for hours about my personal wishes verses Heavenly Father's will. In the end, I laid hands on her head and put my will subserviant to Heaven Father's. If he needed her, then take her. She died a few hours later.

In subsequent days, my eldest son received dreams? revelation? concerning her death. In one, he saw a woman walking away from him and he sprinted to catch up. She turned and looked at him, a beautiful woman with dark brown hair, beautiful complextion, elegant and serene. She spoke, and said, "Michael, its all right. I'm home now and I'm needed by Father." She then walked through a mist. There's much more to the story, and I'm sorry to digress.

Bottom line. Sometimes in our failure, we actually are obedient to the spirit. Sometimes its in the following and not necessarily in the results at the end. If I had healed my wife, I would have had her for awhile longer here on earth, I would have won the battle but lost the war. We do the best we can, always keeping our eye on the final goal. We win some and we loose some. I don't think our financial net worth means anything to Heavenly Father. Only our hearts, as they turn to Him, are important.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 14th, 2011, 7:43 pm
by Rand
Thank you for sharing that wonderfully spiritual post. I admire your ability to submit your will to God's. Well done, well done. Thanks again for sharing.

Re: Advise please

Posted: November 15th, 2011, 11:24 am
by WhereCanITurn4Peace
Zowieink, what a powerful and beautiful post!

What strength it must have taken for you to know you had the priesthood power to keep her here, but instead chose Father's will. I'm working on understanding His will for me and how I can make His will my own and you are an incredible example...thank you.

Re: Advise please

Posted: May 2nd, 2012, 11:20 pm
by gdemetz
I had an experience years ago in which I gave my ill step grandfather a blessing, and he died shortly after that. It may have taken a "miracle" for him to live. Later, I realized that I had the priesthood authority, but I didn't have the necessary priesthood power. They are two somewhat separate things. "And no one could do a miracle save he were cleansed form sin every whit."

Re: Advise please

Posted: May 3rd, 2012, 12:33 am
by HeirofNumenor
Not to mention that it may not have been the Lord's will that he live, no matter what you did/how worthy you or he were...

Re: Advise please

Posted: May 3rd, 2012, 12:43 am
by gdemetz
Yea, but if I would have had been worthy enough and had the Spirit, I would have known that. Also, I don't know of any scriptural accounts right off hand where the apostles would say, for example, "sorry , but it's not the Lord's will that you live any longer." There may have been some cases unrecorded like that, or if they knew that, they may have possibly avoided the person.

Re: Advise please

Posted: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 pm
by HeirofNumenor
gdemetz wrote:Yea, but if I would have had been worthy enough and had the Spirit, I would have known that. Also, I don't know of any scriptural accounts right off hand where the apostles would say, for example, "sorry , but it's not the Lord's will that you live any longer." There may have been some cases unrecorded like that, or if they knew that, they may have possibly avoided the person.

Or in the blessing, you usually would state something to the effect of "God's/Thy will be done." I have in mind Elder Dallin H. Oaks talk from General Conference April 2010 (priesthood session) on Healing the Sick. (Note the bold underlined section near the end of his talk).


Healing the Sick

Dallin H. Oaks

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... k?lang=eng

We have this priesthood power, and we should all be prepared to use it properly.

In these times of worldwide turmoil, more and more persons of faith are turning to the Lord for blessings of comfort and healing. I wish to speak to this audience of priesthood holders about healing the sick—by medical science, by prayers of faith, and by priesthood blessings.

I.

Latter-day Saints believe in applying the best available scientific knowledge and techniques. We use nutrition, exercise, and other practices to preserve health, and we enlist the help of healing practitioners, such as physicians and surgeons, to restore health.

The use of medical science is not at odds with our prayers of faith and our reliance on priesthood blessings. When a person requested a priesthood blessing, Brigham Young would ask, “Have you used any remedies?” To those who said no because “we wish the Elders to lay hands upon us, and we have faith that we shall be healed,” President Young replied: “That is very inconsistent according to my faith. If we are sick, and ask the Lord to heal us, and to do all for us that is necessary to be done, according to my understanding of the Gospel of salvation, I might as well ask the Lord to cause my wheat and corn to grow, without my plowing the ground and casting in the seed. It appears consistent to me to apply every remedy that comes within the range of my knowledge, and [then] to ask my Father in Heaven … to sanctify that application to the healing of my body.” 1

Of course we don’t wait until all other methods are exhausted before we pray in faith or give priesthood blessings for healing. In emergencies, prayers and blessings come first. Most often we pursue all efforts simultaneously. This follows the scriptural teachings that we should “pray always” (D&C 90:24) and that all things should be done in wisdom and order. 2

II.

We know that the prayer of faith, uttered alone or in our homes or places of worship, can be effective to heal the sick. Many scriptures refer to the power of faith in the healing of an individual. The Apostle James taught that we should “pray one for another, that ye may be healed,” adding, “the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much” (James 5:16). When the woman who touched Jesus was healed, He told her, “Thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22). 3 Similarly, the Book of Mormon teaches that the Lord “worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men” (Moroni 10:7).

A recent nationwide survey found that nearly 8 in 10 Americans “believe that miracles still occur today as [they did] in ancient times.” A third of those surveyed said they had “experienced or witnessed a divine healing.” 4 Many Latter-day Saints have experienced the power of faith in healing the sick. We also hear examples of this among people of faith in other churches. A Texas newspaperman described such a miracle. When a five-year-old girl breathed with difficulty and became feverish, her parents rushed her to the hospital. By the time she arrived there, her kidneys and lungs had shut down, her fever was 107 degrees, and her body was bright red and covered with purple lesions. The doctors said she was dying of toxic shock syndrome, cause unknown. As word spread to family and friends, God-fearing people began praying for her, and a special prayer service was held in their Protestant congregation in Waco, Texas. Miraculously, she suddenly returned from the brink of death and was released from the hospital in a little over a week. Her grandfather wrote, “She is living proof that God does answer prayers and work miracles.” 5

Truly, as the Book of Mormon teaches, God “manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost; yea, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, working mighty miracles … among the children of men according to their faith” (2 Nephi 26:13).

III.

For this audience—adults who hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and young men who will soon receive this power—I will concentrate my remarks on healing blessings involving the power of the priesthood. We have this priesthood power, and we should all be prepared to use it properly. Current increases in natural disasters and financial challenges show that we will need this power even more in the future than in the past.

Many scriptures teach that the servants of the Lord “shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover” (Mark 16:18). 6 Miracles happen when the authority of the priesthood is used to bless the sick. I have experienced these miracles. As a boy and as a man I have seen healings as miraculous as any recorded in the scriptures, and so have many of you.

There are five parts to the use of priesthood authority to bless the sick: (1) the anointing, (2) the sealing of the anointing, (3) faith, (4) the words of the blessing, and (5) the will of the Lord.

Anointing

The Old Testament frequently mentions anointing with oil as part of a blessing conferred by priesthood authority. 7 Anointings were declared to be for sanctification 8 and perhaps can also be seen as symbolic of the blessings to be poured out from heaven as a result of this sacred act.

In the New Testament we read that Jesus’s Apostles “anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them” (Mark 6:13). The book of James teaches the role of anointing in connection with the other elements in a healing blessing by priesthood authority:

“Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

“And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up” (James 5:14–15).
Sealing the Anointing

When someone has been anointed by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the anointing is sealed by that same authority. To seal something means to affirm it, to make it binding for its intended purpose. When elders anoint a sick person and seal the anointing, they open the windows of heaven for the Lord to pour forth the blessing He wills for the person afflicted.

President Brigham Young taught: “When I lay hands on the sick, I expect the healing power and influence of God to pass through me to the patient, and the disease to give way. … When we are prepared, when we are holy vessels before the Lord, a stream of power from the Almighty can pass through the tabernacle of the administrator to the system of the patient, and the sick are made whole.” 9

Although we know of many cases where persons blessed by priesthood authority have been healed, we rarely refer to these healings in public meetings because modern revelation cautions us not to “boast [ourselves] of these things, neither speak them before the world; for these things are given unto you for your profit and for salvation” (D&C 84:73).

Faith

Faith is essential for healing by the powers of heaven. The Book of Mormon even teaches that “if there be no faith among the children of men God can do no miracle among them” (Ether 12:12). 10 In a notable talk on administering to the sick, President Spencer W. Kimball said: “The need of faith is often underestimated. The ill one and the family often seem to depend wholly on the power of the priesthood and the gift of healing that they hope the administering brethren may have, whereas the greater responsibility is with him who is blessed. … The major element is the faith of the individual when that person is conscious and accountable. ‘Thy faith hath made thee whole’ [Matthew 9:22] was repeated so often by the Master that it almost became a chorus.” 11

President Kimball even suggested that “too frequent administrations may be an indication of lack of faith or of the ill one trying to pass the responsibility for faith development to the elders rather than self.” He told about a faithful sister who received a priesthood blessing. When asked the next day if she wished to be administered to again, she replied: “No, I have been anointed and administered to. The ordinance has been performed. It is up to me now to claim my blessing through my faith.” 12

Words of Blessing

Another part of a priesthood blessing is the words of blessing spoken by the elder after he seals the anointing. These words can be very important, but their content is not essential and they are not recorded on the records of the Church. In some priesthood blessings—like a patriarchal blessing—the words spoken are the essence of the blessing. But in a healing blessing it is the other parts of the blessing—the anointing, the sealing, faith, and the will of the Lord—that are the essential elements.

Ideally, the elder who officiates will be so in tune with the Spirit of the Lord that he will know and declare the will of the Lord in the words of the blessing. Brigham Young taught priesthood holders, “It is your privilege and duty to live so that you know when the word of the Lord is spoken to you and when the mind of the Lord is revealed to you.” 13 When that happens, the spoken blessing is fulfilled literally and miraculously. On some choice occasions I have experienced that certainty of inspiration in a healing blessing and have known that what I was saying was the will of the Lord. However, like most who officiate in healing blessings, I have often struggled with uncertainty on the words I should say. For a variety of causes, every elder experiences increases and decreases in his level of sensitivity to the promptings of the Spirit. Every elder who gives a blessing is subject to influence by what he desires for the person afflicted. Each of these and other mortal imperfections can influence the words we speak.

Fortunately, the words spoken in a healing blessing are not essential to its healing effect. If faith is sufficient and if the Lord wills it, the afflicted person will be healed or blessed whether the officiator speaks those words or not. Conversely, if the officiator yields to personal desire or inexperience and gives commands or words of blessing in excess of what the Lord chooses to bestow according to the faith of the individual, those words will not be fulfilled. Consequently, brethren, no elder should ever hesitate to participate in a healing blessing because of fear that he will not know what to say. The words spoken in a healing blessing can edify and energize the faith of those who hear them, but the effect of the blessing is dependent upon faith and the Lord’s will, not upon the words spoken by the elder who officiated.

Will of the Lord

Young men and older men, please take special note of what I will say now. As we exercise the undoubted power of the priesthood of God and as we treasure His promise that He will hear and answer the prayer of faith, we must always remember that faith and the healing power of the priesthood cannot produce a result contrary to the will of Him whose priesthood it is. This principle is taught in the revelation directing that the elders of the Church shall lay their hands upon the sick. The Lord’s promise is that “he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed” (D&C 42:48; emphasis added). Similarly, in another modern revelation the Lord declares that when one “asketh according to the will of God … it is done even as he asketh” (D&C 46:30). 14

From all of this we learn that even the servants of the Lord, exercising His divine power in a circumstance where there is sufficient faith to be healed, cannot give a priesthood blessing that will cause a person to be healed if that healing is not the will of the Lord.


As children of God, knowing of His great love and His ultimate knowledge of what is best for our eternal welfare, we trust in Him. The first principle of the gospel is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and faith means trust. I felt that trust in a talk my cousin gave at the funeral of a teenage girl who had died of a serious illness. He spoke these words, which first astonished me and then edified me: “I know it was the will of the Lord that she die. She had good medical care. She was given priesthood blessings. Her name was on the prayer roll in the temple. She was the subject of hundreds of prayers for her restoration to health. And I know that there is enough faith in this family that she would have been healed unless it was the will of the Lord to take her home at this time.” I felt that same trust in the words of the father of another choice girl whose life was taken by cancer in her teen years. He declared, “Our family’s faith is in Jesus Christ and is not dependent on outcomes.” Those teachings ring true to me. We do all that we can for the healing of a loved one, and then we trust in the Lord for the outcome.

I testify of the power of the priesthood of God, of the power of the prayer of faith, and of the truth of these principles. Most of all, I testify of the Lord Jesus Christ, whose servants we are, whose Resurrection gives us the assurance of immortality, and whose Atonement gives us the opportunity for eternal life, the greatest of all the gifts of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Hide References



1. Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe (1954), 163.


2. See Mosiah 4:27.


3. See also Mark 10:46–52; Luke 18:35–43.


4. U.S. Religious Landscape Survey: Religious Beliefs and Practices: Diverse and Politically Relevant (The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, June 2008), 34, 54, http://religions.pewforum.org/reports#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.


5. See Steve Blow, “Sometimes, ‘Miracles’ Are Just That,” Dallas Morning News, Jan. 30, 2000, 31A.


6. See also Matthew 9:18; Mark 5:23; 6:5; 7:32–35; 16:18; Luke 4:40; Acts 9:12, 17; 28:8; Doctrine and Covenants 42:44, 48; 66:9.


7. See, for example, Exodus 28:41; 1 Samuel 10:1; 16:13; 2 Samuel 5:3.


8. See Leviticus 8:10–12.


9. Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (1997), 252; see also Russell M. Nelson, “Neither Trust in the Arm of Flesh,” Liahona, Mar. 2010, 40; Ensign, Mar. 2010, 24; Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley (1997), 474.


10. See also 1 Nephi 7:12; Doctrine and Covenants 35:9.


11. “President Kimball Speaks Out on Administration to the Sick,” Tambuli, Aug. 1982, 36–37; New Era, Oct. 1981, 47.


12. Tambuli, Aug. 1982, 36; New Era, Oct. 1981, 46–47.


13. Teachings: Brigham Young, 68.


14. See also 1 John 5:14; Helaman 10:5.